PA to MD?

[SF Doc]

Anyone else as crazy as I am? I've been practicing 8 yrs now....EM

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[supercut]

yes...went from NP to MD. graduated MD 2003.

I found that it's NOT WORTH IT...the additional debt incurred and lost income during med school/residency is not worth the addtional hassle/intrusion on my life. This was one of the biggest mistakes of my life.

 

[PAGuyana]

it's worth it. Not an MD yet, but a PA. Ask yourself this, how many old PAs do you see? Plenty of docs practicing well into their old age, but no PAs. Suspect they are forced out. It'll pay off in the long haul.

 

[Yourmother]

Plenty of docs practicing well into their old age, but no PAs. Suspect they are forced out.

You must be kidding. Everything I have ever read, everyone I have talked to screams PA = stability. If anything, primary care docs are the ones being forced out by PA and NPs.

Where are you getting your information?

 

[SF Doc]

I have 13 secondaries out...just waiting for the Interviews.....

NP to MD, what was the real downside other than financial? Don't like the work? Give me some more details. What kind of NP were you?

As far as money goes I've been pulling 100k/yr since my third year out but I'm going further because I just want to be better at this stuff...no way to do that without further formal education.

I have seen some "Old PA's" still practicing in their 50's and 60's in the ER....but If I had 30 yrs exp. I'd want to be the Doc!!!

 

[deleted6669]

it's worth it. Not an MD yet, but a PA. Ask yourself this, how many old PAs do you see? Plenty of docs practicing well into their old age, but no PAs. Suspect they are forced out. It'll pay off in the long haul.

you just need to work at the right place. most of my em pa group is over 50. none of them have any debt. they all have 2 or more houses and vacation > 2 mo/yr. one guy in our group takes off dec-feb every yr to go skiing at his house in canada. I'm being serious here. these guys have been pa's for > 20 yrs and have planned well for retirement so they are coasting now.
I hope to be in their situation in 10 yrs or so. looking good for that with no debt other than house mortgage and actually considering a secluded vacation property with a cabin.

 

[deleted6669]

Anyone else as crazy as I am? I've been practicing 8 yrs now....EM

aren't you making 125k+/yr?
that means salary alone you will be out 875k over 7 yrs.....and I make significantly more than 125k so it's even more painful when I run the #s....oh yeah, med school isn't free.....
but if you can make it work more power to you.
pacmatt on this board was an em pa after being a medic. he graduated 2nd in his medschool class while working 24 hrs/week and aced the boards. got his 1st choice em residency. he's a pgy-2 now. bandit is in the same situation. he's an ms4 this yr I think and doing well while still working.

 

[Yourmother]

aren't you making 125k+/yr?
that means salary alone you will be out 875k over 7 yrs.....and I make significantly more than 125k so it's even more painful when I run the #s....oh yeah, med school isn't free.....

Yeah, I agree with this poster. The financials is what always gives me pause. The opportunity cost of switching careers should be a huge consideration, but instead most people get too wrapped up in the "can I do it?" challenge and forget about the financial consequences.

The other biggie is this.

Everyone assumes that the body can handle the rigors year in and year out. There comes a point when your body is screaming at you to retire, but you can't because your "dream" requires another $800,000 in a 401k before retirement.

-mofo

 

[deleted6669]

Yeah, I agree with this poster. The financials is what always gives me pause. The opportunity cost of switching careers should be a huge consideration, but instead most people get too wrapped up in the "can I do it?" challenge and forget about the financial consequences.

The other biggie is this.

Everyone assumes that the body can handle the rigors year in and year out. There comes a point when your body is screaming at you to retire, but you can't because your "dream" requires another $800,000 in a 401k before retirement.

-mofo

finances aside I would go back in a heartbeat. if someone wanted to pay all my school related expenses including my mortgage, food, car insurance, money into the kids college fund, etc I would go back tomorrow, even with a loan repayment required. I loved being a student. that why I spent 9 years of my life in school after high school. I would probably even do the dual fp/em residency.
the problem is that all the repayment plans out there can pay the bills of a single 30 yr old guy but not a family. who can live on 1200/mo before taxes with a family? that's what you get as a stipend from most of the programs out there.....and I have no desire to go the military route, before anyone suggests it.....maybe if there was a direct entry coast guard scholarship program.....I would have no problem doing loan payback as a doc on a military base in alaska for 4 yrs.....

 

[SF Doc]

The new HPSP stipend is over $1900/mo. But I'm not doing that.

I'll moonlight and spend my summers on active duty to scrape some cake, plus the guard PA Bonus is 20K/yr, I should do ok, provided I acually get in.....

100k in home equity helps

 

[deleted6669]

The new HPSP stipend is over $1900/mo. But I'm not doing that.

I'll moonlight and spend my summers on active duty to scrape some cake, plus the guard PA Bonus is 20K/yr, I should do ok, provided I acually get in.....

100k in home equity helps

you are single I assume.....
if military is your thing the direct commision for pa's now is ridiculous.
you can get yr for yr civilian time counted as time in service so I would start as a maj or lt. col without prior service

 

[Yourmother]

you are single I assume.....
if military is your thing the direct commision for pa's now is ridiculous.
you can get yr for yr civilian time counted as time in service so I would start as a maj or lt. col without prior service

That is insane.

No offense, but a direct commission at an 0-5? Time-in-grade can only be count so much for promotion. I highly doubt there is a direct commission for a senior officer save battlefield promotions in the 18th century.

Maybe you're correct but I've NEVER heard of this.

 

[deleted6669]

That is insane.

No offense, but a direct commission at an 0-5? Time-in-grade can only be count so much for promotion. I highly doubt there is a direct commission for a senior officer save battlefield promotions in the 18th century.

Maybe you're correct but I've NEVER heard of this.

it's real, I have seen the documents.I also know of an ob md with 25 yrs experience without prior service who recently got a direct commission to 0-6.

 

[Micah6:8]

I have been a PA for 5 years and just finished my first quarter of med school. I love it. It is the best decision I have made, although certainly not without sacrifice. Giving up the full-time PA salary was not easy, but I know I made the right choice.
I will work full time during the breaks and still consult on a regular basis. The company I worked for still gives me 1/2 my salary and I get to keep my benefits.
All of my friends who are docs were/are very supportive and encouraging.
Follow what you really want to do.

 

[Yourmother]

I also know of an ob md with 25 yrs experience without prior service who recently got a direct commission to 0-6.

okay, 0-6 as an MD, so yes I've seen this too. In fact there is an article on google about a few docs doing this.

But for a PA?

haha...the image of a 24 year old full colonel was just too much.

 

[princekc]

I have been a PA for 5 years and just finished my first quarter of med school. I love it. It is the best decision I have made, although certainly not without sacrifice. Giving up the full-time PA salary was not easy, but I know I made the right choice.
I will work full time during the breaks and still consult on a regular basis. The company I worked for still gives me 1/2 my salary and I get to keep my benefits.
All of my friends who are docs were/are very supportive and encouraging.
Follow what you really want to do.

Nice post...the key word here is to "follow what you really want to do"

 

[princekc]

SF Doc
If I were you. I'll follow my heart, complete all pre-requisite, take MCAT and apply broadly, preferably State sch so you can save lots of money that way. During med sch, work per-diem and pick up hours during holiday. Keep in mind that you have yrs of EM experience and that will open more doors e.g negotiating for a flexible work schedule while you attend med sch. You will be at an advantage during med sch. I know few friends of mine that were PA who are in med sch,one of them doing MD/JD. Once again, follow your heart and do what you enjoy. Sometime, it's not all about the money.

 

[deleted6669]

okay, 0-6 as an MD, so yes I've seen this too. In fact there is an article on google about a few docs doing this.

But for a PA?

haha...the image of a 24 year old full colonel was just too much.

I think you misunderstood my previous post. to go in as an 0-4 or 0-5 as a pa you need 20 + yrs experience as a pa so we are talking about folks> 45 yrs old, not newbies right out of school.

 

[viostorm]

SF doc, it probably isn't worth it from a sanity point of view or a financial point of view.

I think it would be cool but to be honest:

Medical school really sucks. It is a complete waste of at least 3 years of your life. Nothing but non-stop studying and taking crap from residents. Seriously, one resident made a student carry their coat during rounds. They constantly scut you out ... as in fetch this sticker from the 4th floor and bring it to me in the OR so I can record the procedure I just did. If you think you can deal then go ahead.

I guess for me as someone who was leaving a career in the past, I just said "Well ... what else are you doing with your life?" Why not medical school.

I'd probably do it again, but to be honest, that statement varies from day to day. I was almost certainly HAPPIER before going to medical school, but probably not as "fullfilled" professionally if that makes any sense.

 

[Yourmother]

I think you misunderstood my previous post. to go in as an 0-4 or 0-5 as a pa you need 20 + yrs experience as a pa so we are talking about folks> 45 yrs old, not newbies right out of school.

ok, so its 20+ years, that is different.

regardless, my comment remains. haha...the image of a 24 year old full colonel was just too much.

 

[gman33]

A lot of the responses you got focused on finances. This applies to all career changers. Anyone who is leaving a well paying job will probably not see much, if any, financial benefit to becoming a physician.

The main thing to think about is what you hope to achieve in your career by becoming a doc. Are these things that you don't think you can achieve in your current job as a PA? I can't speak to that as I have never been a PA. If you think that becoming a doc is worth it, and you can put up with the 7-10 years of work and sacrifice to get there, then by all means go for it.

For me the decision came down to just not being able to see myself continuing down my former career path for the next 30 years.