PA vs. CRNA

[jlo4610]

I am graduating from undergrad this summer and am still undecided as to what route I want to take. I dont know if I want to go to PA school or go to a 1 1/2 year accelerated nursing program where you get your bachelors of nursing and then work for a little while and go back to become a CRNA.
I am currently a tech at the hospital in the ER and like working in the ER. If I were to become a PA I think that I would enjoy the ER more so than any other field. My question is would it be worth it to spend the extra time and go to CRNA school. I have heard really mixed things from people about each occupation. Most of the criticism of PA's is that they get bored with the same thing day in and day out and it seems that people say as a CRNA it is hard to find a job. What would an ER PA do? and is there the potential to make 100,000 + as an ER PA?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
THANKS!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[guetzow]

If you want to practice medicine in an ER, PA is the way to go. In addition, it's possible to make upwards of 125K in that specialty if you can do procedure$ and keep an eye out for the right job. I just saw an Ad for an ER PA opening that was 125K (TODAY).

 

[deleted6669]

as a pa you have much more flexibility than a crna.
crna= deliver anesthesia in the o.r.
pa = work in any health care field and change as often as you want without additional schooling. many pa's work in more than 1 field at the same time.
the avg er pa makes 90k nationwide. a good er pa with 5+ yrs experience should make somewhere in the 100-150k range.

 

[iluvkeeley]

i know aa's make 90k-100k out of school and i have seen some openings that go as high as $240k for 5+ experience

Its, really about what you prefer and want to do

 

[jlo4610]

What types of cases does a pa in the er deal with?
Is it an exciting job?
I am the type of person that needs to be kept occupied and "on their toes".

 

[deleted6669]

What types of cases does a pa in the er deal with?
Is it an exciting job?
I am the type of person that needs to be kept occupied and "on their toes".

check out www.sempa.org for info about pa's in em.
in short, there are settings in which pa's do only fast track and other places in which they are running the show as the only provider present.

 

[rn29306]

My previous GF was a CT PA. Some of her friends in Atlanta were PAs also. One was vascular, one was ortho, one was derm. All of them, except the derm, incessantly whined and moaned about daily life and how bad things sucked. Dude I'm talking ALL THE TIME. It was like coming home from working in the ICU and booya - more whining and complaining just like I heard from my co-workers from the previous 12 1/2 hours. And they made 25K more than I did as a staff RN, worked less than I did so they didn't get any sympathy from me.

I'm graduating as a CRNA in 6 months. To the OP, I encourage you to spend time with both professions if indeed you are wanting to pursue either field. I have yet to meet an unhappy CRNA. The field is not confining. You find yourself doing anesthesia or general IV in many places besides the OR, infact a great deal of places outside the OR.

I highly encourage you to shadow both professions so you can make the right choice for you.

 

[nitecap]

Really if you want flexibility with working different area ER, ect then go PA.

If you want to work in the OR go CRNA. There are vast differences between the 2 fields.

As far as job flexiblity as far as hours both are comprable depending on if you work private practice, out pt surgery ect.

As far as number of jobs out there, there are thoussands of CRNA positions as we speak and the need is only increasing daily b/c at present their is an anesthesia provider shortage only expected to get worse over the next decade.

The average CRNA will earn more than the average PA no doubt. In houston new grad CRNA about 130k, New grad PA 75.

Depending on what setting you work in the CRNA will be more autonomous and always has to work under and physician. As a CRNA there are many opportunities to do independent contract work and earn in the 200's easy.

As far as liability the CRNA without a doubt is has way more risks than your average PA. I mean really you push the most potent drugs known to man and then when the pts down you are his life support. Every desicion must be made quick and results are instantaneous. And if you over shoot or the pt doesnt respond as you anticipated its is you that has to fix what you just did. Anesthesia is all about balance, you give this to get this wanted effect but at the same time that wanted effect also has a bad effect so you give something to block that. Its all about balance and you in a split second have to make the descion that for 1 is safe to the pt and for 2 anesthetizes the pt and 3 are able to wake the pt up after anesthesia. This critical thinking you will encounter everyday and all day at work. Though they do have many great PA's out there. Believe me I have worked with some in the ICU. But largely besides those in ICU and ER maybe most PA's arent making these crucial descision day in and day out.

SO my advice. Go the CRNA route. To me the work is may more mentally demanding which I like, at every second of your work day there is a pretty strong chance something drastic may happen and you have to know why, what and how to fix it and then how to fix your fix b/c it caused something else you dont want. Also the pay is better and the opportunities for getting out from the MD's wing and not having to constantly have some superior sign off on things that you know were right or have some one always tell you what to do. I mean it really gets frustrating when you know you made the right call but for your entire career you have to get someone to verify correctness and sign off.

As far the AA yes they get paid well but if you want to compare CRNA job availabilites and AA's then there is merely no comparision.

Go to www.gaswork.com

it is the largest anesthesia job website out there and check out the CRNA opportunities. Just looked and there are about 1600 jobs list in the US and thats just on that site alone. There are about 30 AA jobs on this site advertised for .

So really your desicion comes down to what you wanna do, salary, and what you desires are. CRNA is demading and mentally challenging day in and day out. I love it and could not have entered a better profession in my opinion.

We do appealing and challenging work and for the most part are the highest paid midlevel practioner when comparing salaries to PA's, NP's, even optometrist many times.

 

[jlo4610]

I understand that they are two pretty different fields and it is hard to compare the two. I too have heard never talked to a crna that says they dont like their job. I have talked to pa's and people who know pa's that say they are miserable and pa's that love their job. A pa that I have shadowed has told me that when most people graduate PA that they wont make as much as they thought and will work alot more hours than they thought. Every PA I have talked to has said that they work 50-60+ hours a week. That is why I thought being a PA in the ER would be good since you do shift work. My major concern is that I will become a PA and not be happy and then there is no where to turn. Also, I am interested in finding out what a crna's daily job is like but my school does not know of any that I can shadow.
One more question. My undergrad cum GPA is around a 3.6 (not done with classes). What kind of GPA would I need to get in nursing school to get into CRNA school.
Sorry for all the questions.
THANKS!

 

[rn29306]

Link on over to allnurses.com and find the CRNA forum. Perhaps alot of questions can be answered over there. PM me with your state at least and I can provide you with CRNA schools that would be more than happy to allow or at least put you in contact with a CRNA. These guys are extremely open about people shadowing them, you might just have to get past a HIPPA nazi at the OR desk to do so. My CRNA I shadowed when I was wiping Cdiff in the ICU told me it was like a concert - once you get past the gate you are home free.

Let me or nitecap know how one if us can help you.

 

[iluvkeeley]

Really if you want flexibility with working different area ER, ect then go PA.

If you want to work in the OR go CRNA. There are vast differences between the 2 fields.

As far as job flexiblity as far as hours both are comprable depending on if you work private practice, out pt surgery ect.

As far as number of jobs out there, there are thoussands of CRNA positions as we speak and the need is only increasing daily b/c at present their is an anesthesia provider shortage only expected to get worse over the next decade.

The average CRNA will earn more than the average PA no doubt. In houston new grad CRNA about 130k, New grad PA 75.

Depending on what setting you work in the CRNA will be more autonomous and always has to work under and physician. As a CRNA there are many opportunities to do independent contract work and earn in the 200's easy.

As far as liability the CRNA without a doubt is has way more risks than your average PA. I mean really you push the most potent drugs known to man and then when the pts down you are his life support. Every desicion must be made quick and results are instantaneous. And if you over shoot or the pt doesnt respond as you anticipated its is you that has to fix what you just did. Anesthesia is all about balance, you give this to get this wanted effect but at the same time that wanted effect also has a bad effect so you give something to block that. Its all about balance and you in a split second have to make the descion that for 1 is safe to the pt and for 2 anesthetizes the pt and 3 are able to wake the pt up after anesthesia. This critical thinking you will encounter everyday and all day at work. Though they do have many great PA's out there. Believe me I have worked with some in the ICU. But largely besides those in ICU and ER maybe most PA's arent making these crucial descision day in and day out.

SO my advice. Go the CRNA route. To me the work is may more mentally demanding which I like, at every second of your work day there is a pretty strong chance something drastic may happen and you have to know why, what and how to fix it and then how to fix your fix b/c it caused something else you dont want. Also the pay is better and the opportunities for getting out from the MD's wing and not having to constantly have some superior sign off on things that you know were right or have some one always tell you what to do. I mean it really gets frustrating when you know you made the right call but for your entire career you have to get someone to verify correctness and sign off.

As far the AA yes they get paid well but if you want to compare CRNA job availabilites and AA's then there is merely no comparision.

Go to www.gaswork.com

it is the largest anesthesia job website out there and check out the CRNA opportunities. Just looked and there are about 1600 jobs list in the US and thats just on that site alone. There are about 30 AA jobs on this site advertised for .

So really your desicion comes down to what you wanna do, salary, and what you desires are. CRNA is demading and mentally challenging day in and day out. I love it and could not have entered a better profession in my opinion.

We do appealing and challenging work and for the most part are the highest paid midlevel practioner when comparing salaries to PA's, NP's, even optometrist many times.

Excellent post! some questions though, what are the hours like for a crna on average? did you go to school in houston? Thanks

 

[nitecap]

Hours really depend what type location you work at and what your contract states. If you desire mainly Mon-Fri position than outpt surgery is an option. I know CRNA's that work OP Surg bout 6am-4pm Mon-fri, no weekends or holidays or call and make 150 easy. With outpt surg centers popping up all over there is quit a need here.

Then there are jobs that require call, 40 plus hrs a weeek 70 hrs a week. Really is pretty flexible and there are positions out there that suit what type of schedule you want usually. Most CRNA call is in house (where you stay at the hospital the entire call shift)

Most PA's I know that work directly under MD's dont have it as good scheduling wise. They are on call and freq get called late nite to either come in or to straighten things out over the phone. Also freq in the hospital if say PA for Cardio or surgey 6-7 days a week seeing pts. PA's that work in critical care ICU's or ER's dont have this call issue and hour issue usually.

As far as schedule perks for the most money CRNA is the way to go really. You can do shift work working a few days a week, or Mon-Fri or just monings or just afternoons and call shifts ect.

 

[iluvkeeley]

Hours really depend what type location you work at and what your contract states. If you desire mainly Mon-Fri position than outpt surgery is an option. I know CRNA's that work OP Surg bout 6am-4pm Mon-fri, no weekends or holidays or call and make 150 easy. With outpt surg centers popping up all over there is quit a need here.

Then there are jobs that require call, 40 plus hrs a weeek 70 hrs a week. Really is pretty flexible and there are positions out there that suit what type of schedule you want usually. Most CRNA call is in house (where you stay at the hospital the entire call shift)

Most PA's I know that work directly under MD's dont have it as good scheduling wise. They are on call and freq get called late nite to either come in or to straighten things out over the phone. Also freq in the hospital if say PA for Cardio or surgey 6-7 days a week seeing pts. PA's that work in critical care ICU's or ER's dont have this call issue and hour issue usually.

As far as schedule perks for the most money CRNA is the way to go really. You can do shift work working a few days a week, or Mon-Fri or just monings or just afternoons and call shifts ect.

sweet, do you work in texas? Not trying to out you just wondering if the $150k you talk of is in texas or somewhere else.

 

[rn29306]

150K is easily attainable most anyplace with a minimal to moderate amount of overtime.

 

[CTS-PA]

"My question is would it be worth it to spend the extra time and go to CRNA school?"
~If CRNA is right for you then the extra time is not an obstacle. Don't feel like life is a sprint, it's more like a marathon, you have to pace yourself. If you have other obligations (spouse, child etc.) you may not be able to to afford the extra time. See where you are in your life right know and then ask yourself where you want to be in 5 years and then ten years. Then the answer to your own questions may become obvious to you.

"It seems that people say as a CRNA it is hard to find a job?"
~Not true there are ton's of CRNA jobs.


"What would an ER PA do?"
~Check out the aapa website.


"Is there the potential to make 100,000 + as an ER PA?"
~Though it's not the most lucrative medical field, the ER tends to compensate higher than most medical specialties for PAs. If you have about two or more years of experience you can make a six figure salary with moderate overtime as an ER PA. You probably could not get six figures as a new grad PA, unless you are doing a lot of OT. Previous Census statistics show Surgical Subspecialties compensate the most for PAs. You may want to consider shadowing a PAs in various settings out of the ER to see what they do.

If making a phat salary from the day you graduate if a very high priority, then CRNA would be the way to go. If having a little more flexibility is a priority PA may be right for you.

 

[Mike MacKinnon]

forget the money.

You have to decide what you WANT to do, all the money in the world will not keep you in a job you hate. If you are looking for diversity in practice, CRNA is NOT the way to go, there is little diversity. If your looking for a challenging anesthesia role, CRNA is the way to go.

Look at it from that perspective and not from the money perspective. You mention you really like the idea of being in the ER, then forget CRNA.

I have been deciding b/t MD and CRNA for some time and have since made the decision to goto CRNA school. Ive spend ALOT of time researching all my options and even shadowing a few types of practitioners. I am very interested in a job where i have to critically think alot. When your delievering anesthesia your always alert and often in critical thinking mode, i learned this when shadowing. I have no idea how different it was from how i assumed it would be (essentially i thought it would be a boring job).

In anycase, go for what you will enjoy not the money, i wouldnt think twice about becomming a PA if that looked like it would make me happy.

 

[12R34Y]

forget the money.

You have to decide what you WANT to do, all the money in the world will not keep you in a job you hate. If you are looking for diversity in practice, CRNA is NOT the way to go, there is little diversity. If your looking for a challenging anesthesia role, CRNA is the way to go.

Look at it from that perspective and not from the money perspective. You mention you really like the idea of being in the ER, then forget CRNA.

I have been deciding b/t MD and CRNA for some time and have since made the decision to goto CRNA school. Ive spend ALOT of time researching all my options and even shadowing a few types of practitioners. I am very interested in a job where i have to critically think alot. When your delievering anesthesia your always alert and often in critical thinking mode, i learned this when shadowing. I have no idea how different it was from how i assumed it would be (essentially i thought it would be a boring job).

In anycase, go for what you will enjoy not the money, i wouldnt think twice about becomming a PA if that looked like it would make me happy.

I thought you were already accepted to medical school?

 

[Mike MacKinnon]

hey

I did get an acceptance to RCSI (though didnt post it). I have decided not to take it and turned it down. I wanted to make a decision when i had choices and then i could have clear the idea of "I wonder if".

In the end, CRNA school is the best choice for me for alot of professional and personal reasons.

 

[Jengirl18]

Something else to think about...what if you get tired of being in the OR as a CRNA? As a PA, you can switch specialities anytime you want. Ex: Going from derm to ER...something totally different. Also, PAs treat and diagnose medical illnesses and can First Assist. All depends on what you want.

 

[nitecap]

You said the key word their that I dislike. "Assist". I like to do my own thing and dont want another always having to sign for the quality wrk I just did. Dont get me wrong when I need assistance I ask but I dont need someones verification over something that I know is correct and is routine for me.

 

[Jengirl18]

That's true...there is that word "assist" when it comes to major surgical procedures, but there are several surgical procedures that PAs can do on their own (LPs, vein harvesting, etc)..and there are those PAs in rural medicine who run the show...anyway, both CRNAs and PAs are great profession that are too different to compare.

 

[guetzow]

It appeals to the MDs type A psyche (Having an assistant). Comparing a PA with CRNA is silly, TOTALLY different jobs.