Pain Doctors and Divorce...A Cautionary Tale...

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drusso

drusso

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Here's the best piece of advice for any Fellow or New Grad: Make her sign the Pre-Nup...

It's been like groundhog day hearing about busy pain docs who married young, sacrificed the best years of their life to med school, residency, and fellowship being taken to the cleaners by greedy divorce lawyers and angry spouses.

Other tips: 1) Put real estate, investments, large wholly-owned assets, etc in LLCs, trusts, or related business entities that will be out of reach of your ex-wife and her new deadbeat boyfriend.
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LLC's protect personal assets? I'm not yet married or close to being but will be part of the matriculating fellows this next academic year. How does one breach the topic of pre-nup without coming off greedy themselves?
 
Slowpoke said:
LLC's protect personal assets? I'm not yet married or close to being but will be part of the matriculating fellows this next academic year. How does one breach the topic of pre-nup without coming off greedy themselves?
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Pro tip: Don't tell her you want her to take care of the kids while you keep the future money in case of divorce.
 
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drusso said:
Here's the best piece of advice for any Fellow or New Grad: Make her sign the Pre-Nup...

It's been like groundhog day hearing about busy pain docs who married young, sacrificed the best years of their life to med school, residency, and fellowship being taken to the cleaners by greedy divorce lawyers and angry spouses.

Other tips: 1) Put real estate, investments, large wholly-owned assets, etc in LLCs, trusts, or related business entities that will be out of reach of your ex-wife and her new deadbeat boyfriend.
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imo, a better piece of advice -

its not about getting pointy shoes or adulation from fellow KOL. its about leading a good, wholesome and satisfying life for you and your family, including your wife.

imo, in terms of importance (and steve will soon realize the importance of #3):
1. family
2. personal satisfaction, including work
3. Michigan sports
4. money
 
funny how the post is framed as the pain doc being the victim.

maybe don't be an a-hole and you wont need to go thru a divorce in the first place. of course there are extenuating circumstances, but i have little sympathy for the men in this situation. it is typically the women who get screwed having to sacrifice THEIR best years supporting the "busy pain doc" by working, having kids, taking care of the house, giving up their careers, etc.

ssdoc33 list in terms of importance:

1. unit
2. core
3. god
4. country
 
SSdoc33 said:
funny how the post is framed as the pain doc being the victim.

maybe don't be an a-hole and you wont need to go thru a divorce in the first place. of course there are extenuating circumstances, but i have little sympathy for the men in this situation. it is typically the women who get screwed having to sacrifice THEIR best years supporting the "busy pain doc" by working, having kids, taking care of the house, giving up their careers, etc.

ssdoc33 list in terms of importance:

1. unit
2. core
3. god
4. country
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You can't handle the truth.
 
Slowpoke said:
LLC's protect personal assets? I'm not yet married or close to being but will be part of the matriculating fellows this next academic year. How does one breach the topic of pre-nup without coming off greedy themselves?
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Just confront the topic directly. Look her in the eye and say, "This is the way it's got to be if you're going to be with me."
 
SSdoc33 said:
funny how the post is framed as the pain doc being the victim.

maybe don't be an a-hole and you wont need to go thru a divorce in the first place. of course there are extenuating circumstances, but i have little sympathy for the men in this situation. it is typically the women who get screwed having to sacrifice THEIR best years supporting the "busy pain doc" by working, having kids, taking care of the house, giving up their careers, etc.

ssdoc33 list in terms of importance:

1. unit
2. core
3. god
4. country
Click to expand...

Why do you think it's okay to spend a decade or more Balling or Half-Balling, establishing your reputation and Brand, sacrificing time away from your family to be at all the right places, and then hand-over 1/2 or more of your rewards when a consensual, adult marital relationship doesn't work out?
 
drusso said:
Why do you think it's okay to spend a decade or more Balling or Half-Balling, establishing your reputation and Brand, sacrificing time away from your family to be at all the right places, and then hand-over 1/2 or more of your rewards when a consensual, adult marital relationship doesn't work out?
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is this what happened to you?
 
drusso said:
Why do you think it's okay to spend a decade or more Balling or Half-Balling, establishing your reputation and Brand, sacrificing time away from your family to be at all the right places, and then hand-over 1/2 or more of your rewards when a consensual, adult marital relationship doesn't work out?
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Agree completely. Current marriage laws are ridiculous and I would never get married without a prenup. It is insane and frankly patronizing to women to consider them both deserving of half of what you built and to consider them so fragile that they can’t support themselves in our modern world.
 
drusso said:
Why do you think it's okay to spend a decade or more Balling or Half-Balling, establishing your reputation and Brand, sacrificing time away from your family to be at all the right places, and then hand-over 1/2 or more of your rewards when a consensual, adult marital relationship doesn't work out?
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But she’s accustomed to that lifestyle.. wa wa wa.. stupidest legal crap ever. Gentlemen don’t think for a second your income doesn’t factor in their decision to be with you. Soon we won’t be making enough for them to care so there’s that.

Edit: if you have never lived through a divorce where you were seen as source of material gain for another person and had kids involved and used as leverage your opinion on this is baseless.
 
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Interesting thread. Are you sure you're protected with LLCs? Each of my rentals without notes are in their own LLC but I would think your spouse can come after them if the LLC was created post matrimony.

I'm married with no prenup btw. My wife needs to take care of my kids so she can have everything if it ever came to that. Just don't touch my farm. With that said, I don't blame anyone for wanting to protect themselves as no one can predict what will happen in the future. It would be naive to think that feelings and people don't change. Working out a financial agreement with your significant other is probably the wise thing to do. Either way, for my kids, I've created a trust. I think that's probably the best step to take for protection.
 
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ragnathor said:
If my wife was a half to full baller physician and we agreed I'd stay at home with the kids but she wanted me to sign a pre-nup, I'd say F that.
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so... to drusso - what do you say to this?

whats good for the goose is not good for the gander?

drusso said:
Why do you think it's okay to spend a decade or more Balling or Half-Balling, establishing your reputation and Brand, sacrificing time away from your family to be at all the right places, and then hand-over 1/2 or more of your rewards when a consensual, adult marital relationship doesn't work out?
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could it be the only reason you were able to be balling, establishing your reputation and brand, sacrificing time away from your family, is because your wife not only allowed this but facilitated you being able to do this?




are her contributions to your family and your current situation so meaningless to you?

or, more likely, were they foundational to allow you to go out and ball?
 
I realize I'm likely the minority here, but marriage is for life. My wife feels the same way. Just as I sacrifice daily to put food on the table and take care of our financial lives, she sacrifices daily to make a home for me and my children. Open and honest communication, always putting your spouse's needs above your own, and just doing your best are the keys to a happy and long-lasting marriage.

If, God forbid, my wife changed her mind and wanted to divorce, she can have everything except sole custody of the kids.

In my opinion, a pre-nup only makes sense if either party has a super-large financial situation BEFORE marriage. This is to make sure the other party isn't just gold-digging and actually loves you.
 
jsaul said:
is this what happened to you?
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Actually, I'm happily married. My wife is a mental health counselor who recently completed training in the Gottman Method--a style of marital therapy for couples focused on communication and conflict resolution. Her "final project" was focused on issues unique to "the Medical Marriage."

Spoiler Alert: Many of these problems could be solved by prenups.
 
Pre-nups only protect you if you have assets premarriage. If you get married before you have anything, . . . why isn’t your wife entitled to “your” stuff in the case of divorce?

Marriage isn’t about you, it is about the family. My marriage got so much better when both my wife and I Realized how intrinsically selfish we are.
 
Ducttape said:
pre nups only come into consideration if someone is contemplating divorce.

by then, its too late.
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That's why it's important to structure assets in trusts, REITs, etc. Consider a household operating LLC, college saving accounts, etc. Keep stuff out of the marital bedroom and checkbook and tied up in other vehicles. Instead, just purchase term life insurance, not whole life.

Plan your exit before the honeymoon.
 
Ferrismonk said:
I realize I'm likely the minority here, but marriage is for life. My wife feels the same way. Just as I sacrifice daily to put food on the table and take care of our financial lives, she sacrifices daily to make a home for me and my children. Open and honest communication, always putting your spouse's needs above your own, and just doing your best are the keys to a happy and long-lasting marriage.

If, God forbid, my wife changed her mind and wanted to divorce, she can have everything except sole custody of the kids.

In my opinion, a pre-nup only makes sense if either party has a super-large financial situation BEFORE marriage. This is to make sure the other party isn't just gold-digging and actually loves you.
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I admire your virtues. They don't make them like you and your wife much anymore
 
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Birdstrike said:
Follow this rule to avoid financial hardship:

One spouse.
One house.
One car.

And maximize your retirement plan(s). It's hard to mess up too bad, if you follow these basic rules.
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Similar to:

if it Flies, Floats or...Fornicates, just rent it.
 
This is the pain doctor version of “Eat, Pray, Love”
 
Can i put everything in my momma's name?

No but seriously, cant I just put my money in an estate or in a family members name?
 
GandalfTheWhite said:
Can i put everything in my momma's name?

No but seriously, cant I just put my money in an estate or in a family members name?
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Yes, of course, but why would you? That person then legally owns everything and you nothing. If that person gets sued then they can come after what was previously your estate. If you have a falling out with that person then you have zero recourse to get your estate back. Consider reading up on trusts. This is a separate entity which is a non-human entity.

My LLCs are also non-human entities as well but in the eyes of the law, they are kind of their own persons.
 
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I think the best thing is to take what you have before marriage, put it in your name alone or in a trust, and quarantine it in a separate account or structure and never add to it. If you add anything to it during marriage, it's now joint property.

If you are meticulous about doing this, I'm not sure a prenup is necessary.
 
you can always get a postnup as well.....basically agree to something at some point in time TO AVOID LAWYERS CHURNING THE CASE. If one side cheats, then the other one will be pissed, and the lawyers will feed off that. A prenup/postnup simply sets a clear timeline so that you wont get billed to argue about it. The court must feed it's children.....and it's not you.
 
Doctodd said:
you can always get a postnup as well.....basically agree to something at some point in time TO AVOID LAWYERS CHURNING THE CASE. If one side cheats, then the other one will be pissed, and the lawyers will feed off that. A prenup/postnup simply sets a clear timeline so that you wont get billed to argue about it. The court must feed it's children.....and it's not you.
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Yes, that issue/topic came up a lot in the couples' interviews...
 
Just do what I did- enganged at 19, married at 20 (whilst still a poor bastard in undergrad), and have 6 kids over the course of undergrad, med school, residency, fellowship, and practice.
Play outside- board games- put away the GD phone (advice to myself)- and take your wife out once a week & you’re all good🙌
 
tmvguy03 said:
Just do what I did- enganged at 19, married at 20 (whilst still a poor bastard in undergrad), and have 6 kids over the course of undergrad, med school, residency, fellowship, and practice.
Play outside- board games- put away the GD phone (advice to myself)- and take your wife out once a week & you’re all good🙌
Click to expand...
I’m impressed that you even have time to type this with 6 kids
 
drusso said:
Here's the best piece of advice for any Fellow or New Grad: Make her sign the Pre-Nup...

It's been like groundhog day hearing about busy pain docs who married young, sacrificed the best years of their life to med school, residency, and fellowship being taken to the cleaners by greedy divorce lawyers and angry spouses.

Other tips: 1) Put real estate, investments, large wholly-owned assets, etc in LLCs, trusts, or related business entities that will be out of reach of your ex-wife and her new deadbeat boyfriend.
Click to expand...
No need for any of this, instead take your time and invest it into your wife/family instead of the pursuit of money, you will be much happier in the long run I promise you that
 
tmvguy03 said:
Just do what I did- enganged at 19, married at 20 (whilst still a poor bastard in undergrad), and have 6 kids over the course of undergrad, med school, residency, fellowship, and practice.
Play outside- board games- put away the GD phone (advice to myself)- and take your wife out once a week & you’re all good🙌
Click to expand...
Got 7 myself. Wouldn't have it any other way.
 
What's the probability of success if you retire early and move to a developing country and marry someone half your age and have 6 kids?

Asking for a friend...
 
hyperalgesia said:
What's the probability of success if you retire early and move to a developing country and marry someone half your age and have 6 kids?

Asking for a friend...
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Why not order a bride online from the comfort of your home on Postmates
 
robellis said:
No need for any of this, instead take your time and invest it into your wife/family instead of the pursuit of money, you will be much happier in the long run I promise you that
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Sure but sometimes your wife wants to leave you or be with some other guy and divorce is still imminent.

The pain and cost of divorce also varies by state. Some states are very wife friendly whereas others are neutral.
 
Doctodd said:
Sure but sometimes your wife wants to leave you or be with some other guy and divorce is still imminent.

The pain and cost of divorce also varies by state. Some states are very wife friendly whereas others are neutral.
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That my point..your wife doesn’t just randomly “want to leave you” as if out of thin air..very usually it’s due to a long pattern of behaviors and miscommunications and misunderstandings that can be avoided before and after marriage…pick the right person and put them first and you won’t need any of this advice..so instead of planning a prenup plan to pick the right person
 
robellis said:
That my point..your wife doesn’t just randomly “want to leave you” as if out of thin air..very usually it’s due to a long pattern of behaviors and miscommunications and misunderstandings that can be avoided before and after marriage…pick the right person and put them first and you won’t need any of this advice..so instead of planning a prenup plan to pick the right person
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You live in utopia. People change. Circumstances change. Things change. Money is a big incentive to get married/divorced. The field isn’t level when you marry somebody who makes a lot more or less money. Family Court requires that every person get a fair trial and the children must keep their current lifestyle, which means it must be paid for. Whoever makes more money usually pays for it.
 
Money is a big incentive to get married/divorced.
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if money is a big incentive for someone to get married, then one should anticipate divorce in the future.

someone eons ago said, to paraphrase, that money is the root of all evil (hint Paul and not the one from the Beatles...)

like everything in life, do things for the right reason.
 
Ducttape said:
if money is a big incentive for someone to get married, then one should anticipate divorce in the future.

someone eons ago said, to paraphrase, that money is the root of all evil (hint Paul and not the one from the Beatles...)

like everything in life, do things for the right reason.
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If only every person who did it for money had a big sign on their head announcing it, others might be able to avoid them.
 
Ducttape said:
if money is a big incentive for someone to get married, then one should anticipate divorce in the future.

someone eons ago said, to paraphrase, that money is the root of all evil (hint Paul and not the one from the Beatles...)

like everything in life, do things for the right reason.
Click to expand...
100% agree with you, however the quote is wrong.

It's not "money is the root of all evil", it's "The love of money is the root of all evil(s)"
 
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