PhD/PsyD Paper rather than poster presentations

[NewNeuroDemic]

I'm an early-career tenure-track faculty, and I think posters are stupid. They require in an ordinate amount of time relative to their perceived payoff. (Or maybe my research is boring and shouldn't garner more attention! Totally plausible.) So I've decided to only submit for paper presentations as I consider them much more prestigious and worthwhile. My students will continue to submit posters. Does anyone have any thoughts about this strategy? Any downsides/consequences I should consider?

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[futureapppsy2]

Presentations (aka "paper presentations" ) are generally considered more selective than poster presentation, but honestly, if you're at an R1 or most R2s, conference presentations and posters have very little, if any weight, in T&P decisions, outside of *maybe* showing mentorship to students. I'm TT at an R1 now, and conference presentations aren't even listed on our merit evaluation rubrics, actually.

 

[NewNeuroDemic]

Presentations (aka "paper presentations" ) are generally considered more selective than poster presentation, but honestly, if you're at an R1 or most R2s, conference presentations and posters have very little, if any weight in T&P decisions, outside of *maybe* showing mentorship to students. I'm TT at an R1 now, and conference presentations aren't even listed on our merit evaluation rubrics, actually.

Interesting. I appreciate your response. I am also at an R1, but I just started. With this info in mind, it may be more accurate to think of posters and paper presentations as means to justify travel funding.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Interesting. I appreciate your response. I am also at an R1, but I just started. With this info in mind, it may be more accurate to think of posters and paper presentations as means to justify travel funding.

Exactly--or to see colleagues/friends, go to board meetings, etc. Publications are really where it's at in terms of research dissemination, including publications with students to demonstrate mentorship. Also, this is a good conversation to have with your department head!

 

[beantownpsych]

It can depend a bit on the conference. There are some conferences where it is still quite prestigious to present a poster as an ECR (ACNP etc). But in general APT committees don't care or even review posters or presentations. One exception-- it looks good to have invited talks nationally and internationally as those can speak to reputation (still grants, study sections, publications are where most faculty should spend their time). I only present to justify using grant funds for travel, but my primary purpose is really to see friends, support my students, or to recruit for PhD students/residents/fellows.

 

[WisNeuro]

On a different avenue, some of my old mentors would occasionally present preliminary research findings as a poster to get feedback about the work and to get constructive feedback in advance of manuscript prep (at conferences that they would have gone to anyway). They found it helpful as a way to anticipate potential reviewer feedback and strengthen their paper conceptualization before even beginning the formal writing process.

 

[Justanothergrad]

Interesting. I appreciate your response. I am also at an R1, but I just started. With this info in mind, it may be more accurate to think of posters and paper presentations as means to justify travel funding.

Bingo. Posters of any type don't matter at tenure at my university. I think of them as equivalent to "what was your undergrad GPA" after you earn a doctoral degree. I'm sure someone cares.. but why.

It's travel and networking justification for me. Occasionally feedback as well - although frankly the feedback I've gotten at posters is usually random, vague, or non-existent (you know 'This is a neat presentation. I've never heard of this topic before but I get a CE for being here. Hey, I have a question I'm sure is super valid...' or 'I'm just waiting for happy hour so figured I'd sit/wander around sessions until then).

 

[WisNeuro]

Bingo. Posters of any type don't matter at tenure at my university. I think of them as equivalent to "what was your undergrad GPA" after you earn a doctoral degree. I'm sure someone cares.. but why.

It's travel and networking justification for me. Occasionally feedback as well - although frankly the feedback I've gotten at posters is usually random, vague, or non-existent (you know 'This is a neat presentation. I've never heard of this topic before but I get a CE for being here. Hey, I have a question I'm sure is super valid...' or 'I'm just waiting for happy hour so figured I'd sit/wander around sessions until then).

I will clarify that they usually presented at fairly specific conferences (e.g., Society for Psychophysiological Research) as opposed to more general ones like APA, so that helped with some more fine tuned feedback. I actually had good luck as a grad student with posters. For one PTSD paper I published, a journal editor told me to write it up and submit it to his journal, I did, and it was ultimately published there with minor editing.

 

[Justanothergrad]

I will clarify that they usually presented at fairly specific conferences (e.g., Society for Psychophysiological Research) as opposed to more general ones like APA, so that helped with some more fine tuned feedback. I actually had good luck as a grad student with posters. For one PTSD paper I published, a journal editor told me to write it up and submit it to his journal, I did, and it was ultimately published there with minor editing.

yeh, that's certainly true. I do a lot of MMPI research and the symposium is definitely helpful. Big ones? na.

 

[WisNeuro]

yeh, that's certainly true. I do a lot of MMPI research and the symposium is definitely helpful. Big ones? na.

Yeah, I stopped going to general conferences a long time ago. These days I pretty much just do one of two neuropsych conferences and my state conference. The next time the MMPI symposium is live I'll probably go. I imagine at some point I'll be switching to 3 for IME cases, so I should probably get started on some of the training and background research.

 

[futureapppsy2]

yeh, that's certainly true. I do a lot of MMPI research and the symposium is definitely helpful. Big ones? na.

Same. I attend small rehab psych and similar conferences--never got much out of the big ones like APA.

 

[R. Matey]

On a different avenue, some of my old mentors would occasionally present preliminary research findings as a poster to get feedback about the work and to get constructive feedback in advance of manuscript prep (at conferences that they would have gone to anyway). They found it helpful as a way to anticipate potential reviewer feedback and strengthen their paper conceptualization before even beginning the formal writing process.

As a graduate student, I presented almost exclusively at APA for psychometric stuff. Like you said, it was a good avenue to get feedback on analyses (e.g.: "am I doing this right?"), without spending oodles of precious research time on a manuscript only to be desk rejected (I'm not bitter). I'm sure it's different for faculty, but I didn't want students reading this forum to get the impression that posters are completely worthless.

 

[WisNeuro]

As a graduate student, I presented almost exclusively at APA for psychometric stuff. Like you said, it was a good avenue to get feedback on analyses (e.g.: "am I doing this right?"), without spending oodles of precious research time on a manuscript only to be desk rejected (I'm not bitter). I'm sure it's different for faculty, but I didn't want students reading this forum to get the impression that posters are completely worthless.

It's good for students who still need to apply to internship and postdoc, of that there is no question. Posters will almost certainly help your application there. After postdoc, not as much, at least from a CV building perspective.

 

[R. Matey]

It's good for students who still need to apply to internship and postdoc, of that there is no question. Posters will almost certainly help your application there. After postdoc, not as much, at least from a CV building perspective.

True, though a lot of the stats I know I developed through posters because people will freely give feedback and refer to resources that I hadn't considered. Traveling is also a good time too.

 

[Ollie123]

100% yes its fine, as long as you are actually succeeding in giving talks. It would look super-weird if you literally never present anything, but that's about all once you pass the grad student stage. Give some talks. Don't bother with posters if you don't want to as lead. Collaborate with folks and have trainees do them since it actually can help them. I've taken to organizing symposia that I usually chair but don't present. Looks better than most alternative conference things, gives me an excuse to go and is ironically much less work aside from when a given set of cats proves unusually difficult to herd.

It certainly creates some weirdness for those doing interdisciplinary work. Per my comp sci colleagues, its perfectly acceptable for them to never publish in a traditional journal and only do conference proceedings. Their conferences can be more selective than even many top-tier journals. Like others above, I strongly prefer the small conferences. Went to APA twice I think and it is just a nightmare. As conferences get bigger, it seems the average quality of the work drops and you just end up with too much noise, not enough signal.

Even for "prestigious" conferences (per above), chances are your department won't realize are prestigious or care. ACNP is a good example...I applied for membership this year but I'm probably the only one in my department who even knows the acronym, let alone will care if I get membership or present there. Some departments have a long legacy with them (my previous one did) so you get more buy-in there, but its really only a handful of schools around the country where that is true. I'll suck it up and put together a poster at ACNP if they keep letting me go to that one though, even if it is a little too pompous and country-clubby for my taste. Last time I went there were three posters in a row that all landed in Nature. APA it feels like a stretch to even call a lot of what gets presented science.

 

[Spydra]

As a graduate student, I presented almost exclusively at APA for psychometric stuff. Like you said, it was a good avenue to get feedback on analyses (e.g.: "am I doing this right?"), without spending oodles of precious research time on a manuscript only to be desk rejected (I'm not bitter). I'm sure it's different for faculty, but I didn't want students reading this forum to get the impression that posters are completely worthless.

Well thank you for saying this. I am pondering submitting a poster abstract to APA 2022 using some of my dissertation data because I hope to publish a manuscript from it and thought I might get some helpful feedback.