Parent has question, want to know.....

[Roger899]

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I am parent of a daughter who took MCAT's, we live in CT
She has a 33 overall on the MCAT's (11,11,11), has a 2.90 overall GPA from a very good New England college. I would say she has excellent recommendations (subjective, of course) and doing some medical research now.

From reading some posts it seems the MCAT score is competitive, but the GPA is low. So, does she have a chance at a US school? Opinions welcome. thanks.

 

[flip26]

I am parent of a daughter who took MCAT's, we live in CT
She has a 33 overall on the MCAT's (11,11,11), has a 2.90 overall GPA from a very good New England college. I would say she has excellent recommendations (subjective, of course) and doing some medical research now.

From reading some posts it seems the MCAT score is competitive, but the GPA is low. So, does she have a chance at a US school? Opinions welcome. thanks.

Her chances are extremely poor at 2.9. Statistically, out of the 17,000+ matriculants each year, according to the MSAR, only about 150 or so had a GPA of 2.75 or less, and looking at the graph, 2.9 doesn't look much better. US Allo matriculant median is around 3.7 (I think) and even at that level, half of the applicants don't get accepted.

Now if you had said you lived in a state like LA, she might have a shot there because of lower competition. But living in CT or anywhere in the NE, her GPA will put her chances at just barely above zero...

Her best chance with that good MCAT may be an SMP - Special Masters Program - designed for the high MCAT / low GPA people. Search the forum - there is lots of info on these...

 

[Handy388]

Her chances are extremely poor at 2.9. Statistically, out of the 17,000+ matriculants each year, according to the MSAR, only about 150 or so had a GPA of 2.75 or less, and looking at the graph, 2.9 doesn't look much better. US Allo matriculant median is around 3.7 (I think) and even at that level, half of the applicants don't get accepted.

Now if you had said you lived in a state like LA, she might have a shot there because of lower competition. But living in CT or anywhere in the NE, her GPA will put her chances at just barely above zero...

Her best chance with that good MCAT may be an SMP - Special Masters Program - designed for the high MCAT / low GPA people. Search the forum - there is lots of info on these...

when you say at 3.7, 33 MCAT, do you mean half of the applicants aren't accepted to anyone school or a particular school? I can't see a student with average stats of matriculant apply widely but still have a 50/50 cointoss at getting in.

 

[ksmi117]

Now if you had said you lived in a state like LA, she might have a shot there because of lower competition. But living in CT or anywhere in the NE, her GPA will put her chances at just barely above zero...

Ouch...

I suppose you are right, though 🙁

 

[MilkmanAl]

Take it from someone who just applied under similar circumstances: she's in bad shape. I heard from multiple reliable sources that my 35 on the MCAT would at least get me in somewhere. Ultimately, they turned out to be right but barely. I received 1 interview from 28 applications, 1 waitlist, and after much waiting, one glorious acceptance. With the facts that I had slightly better grades (3.14) and a better MCAT in mind, her situation looks pretty bad.

If she's set on applying this cycle, advise her to apply mainly to DO schools. Her GPA is still quite low for DO, but her MCAT is far above the average. DO schools also tend to view applications more holistically, so her recommendations will probably benefit her more. Applying to her in-state MD schools is also a good plan. Qui ne risque rien n'a rien. I don't suggest investing any more money than that in MD applications, though.

 

[pianola]

Her chances are extremely poor at 2.9. Statistically, out of the 17,000+ matriculants each year, according to the MSAR, only about 150 or so had a GPA of 2.75 or less, and looking at the graph, 2.9 doesn't look much better. US Allo matriculant median is around 3.7 (I think) and even at that level, half of the applicants don't get accepted.

Now if you had said you lived in a state like LA, she might have a shot there because of lower competition. But living in CT or anywhere in the NE, her GPA will put her chances at just barely above zero...

Her best chance with that good MCAT may be an SMP - Special Masters Program - designed for the high MCAT / low GPA people. Search the forum - there is lots of info on these...

An SMP is certainly one option. A post-bacc might be slightly better because it actually raises the undergrad GPA (which is the GPA med schools look at most closely). Just my 2 cents.

Up to you which option to choose, however. And like MilkmanAl said, don't forget about DO. Absolutely nothing wrong with DO whatsoever.

 

[Depakote]

I am parent of a daughter who took MCAT's, we live in CT
She has a 33 overall on the MCAT's (11,11,11), has a 2.90 overall GPA from a very good New England college. I would say she has excellent recommendations (subjective, of course) and doing some medical research now.

From reading some posts it seems the MCAT score is competitive, but the GPA is low. So, does she have a chance at a US school? Opinions welcome. thanks.

Your daughter's MCAT is strong, but I would suggest she pursue either a post-baccalaureate program or a Special Masters Program (as mentioned above) before attempting to apply to medical school.


A Post-Bac program would allow her to demonstrate that she can perform well in undergrad coursework. She can retake classes she performed poorly in and buff any other weak areas of her application. (if she applies to DO schools, the re-take grades will replace the original grades and give her GPA a huge boost... the original grades will still be visible, though)

A Special Masters Program would allow her to take coursework from the first year of medical school to demonstrate that she can handle that course-load. She will still have to apply to schools and the grades she receives will not raise her undergrad GPA, but success here would demonstrate that she would be a good candidate for medical school. Some SPMs have strong linkage with the medical schools that run them (a high percentage of students in the SMP matriculate into the school). The downside of this approach is that it is an "endgame" strategy, to quote an adcom member that posts on SDN. You are taking classes with medical students and must get grades that would impress an admissions committee. Failure here would be the last nail in the coffin for a med school application.

 

[Depakote]

Now that I think about it... I think the post-bac program is probably the smart option.

A 2.9 GPA would probably put her below a lot of automatic screening cutoffs. Even if she does a SMP, her application might never get looked at because her GPA got her weeded out by the computer.

 

[pianola]

Now that I think about it... I think the post-bac program is probably the smart option.

A 2.9 GPA would probably put her below a lot of automatic screening cutoffs. Even if she does a SMP, her application might never get looked at because her GPA got her weeded out by the computer.

I agree with Depakote 100%. Beyond that, the flexibility of post-bacc might be important as MCATs can expire rather sooner than one might wish (I recently found this out from a friend who was not able to submit an April 2006 MCAT to one of our state schools). A very balanced 33 is a thing of beauty, for sure. I'm sure your daughter doesn't want to have to retake it just because the old score expired.

 

[flip26]

when you say at 3.7, 33 MCAT, do you mean half of the applicants aren't accepted to anyone school or a particular school? I can't see a student with average stats of matriculant apply widely but still have a 50/50 cointoss at getting in.

I advise you to get your hands on an MSAR, and also to peruse the statistics and facts on the AAMC website (I am having a problem connecting to it right now)...aamc.org

Anyway - the median matriculant GPA is 3.7, meaning half are above that, and half are below that, or said differently, it is the point at which about half the applicants with that GPA are admitted somewhere, and half aren't.

The GPA statistic I cited in the other post is what is relevant - the total number of matriculants with GPAs of 2.9 or less is measured in the low hundreds, out of 17,000 matriculants.

The median matriculant MCAT composite is around 31, I think (your daughter's 33 is excellent). Clearly people get in with sub median MCAT and GPA, but the rate of acceptance drops way off the further away on the downside of the median one gets...the stats suggest that a GPA below 3.0 is deadly (and Milkman Al's experience offers a cautionary tale in this regard, and both his GPA and MCAT were even higher than your daughter's).

 

[flip26]

Now that I think about it... I think the post-bac program is probably the smart option.

A 2.9 GPA would probably put her below a lot of automatic screening cutoffs. Even if she does a SMP, her application might never get looked at because her GPA got her weeded out by the computer.

I guess I am thinking about an SMP with linkages, like VCU or Tulane and a few others...but you are right, that 2.9 is killing her when it comes to GPA screens...

 

[Handy388]

Anyway - the median matriculant GPA is 3.7, meaning half are above that, and half are below that, or said differently, it is the point at which about half the applicants with that GPA are admitted somewhere, and half aren't.

by definition, all matriculant have gotten in somewhere, your explanation does not make sense at all.

 

[flip26]

by definition, all matriculant have gotten in somewhere, your explanation does not make sense at all.

Eh, so sue me.

Look at an MSAR. Half the people with a 3.7 don't get in anywhere. A 3.7 (actually I think it was 3.71 in 2007) or so is the GPA level at which the "accepted" and "not accepted" curves cross...as applicant GPAs go above 3.7, the percentage of them gaining admission climbs above 50 percent, but even at a 4.0, a large number of applicants don't get accepted anywhere...

Most people on SDN think they are "golden" with a 3.7 when they are actually only at the coin flipping probability level...

 

[MilkmanAl]

He's saying that an extraordinarily small percentage of the 17000 matriculants have a GPA as low as hers, and I'd wager that the vast majority of them are at the Puerto Rican schools or historically black schools. (Let's avoid the URM debate, shall we? I only say that because they have fairly low average GPA's listed in the MSAR.)

edit: By the way, the fact that 3.7 is the median GPA for matriculants doesn't mean that half of applicants with a 3.7 matriculate. The two are totally unrelated.

 

[flip26]

He's saying that an extraordinarily small percentage of the 17000 matriculants have a GPA as low as hers, and I'd wager that the vast majority of them are at the Puerto Rican schools or historically black schools. (Let's avoid the URM debate, shall we? I only say that because they have fairly low average GPA's listed in the MSAR.)

edit: By the way, the fact that 3.7 is the median GPA for matriculants doesn't mean that half of applicants with a 3.7 matriculate. The two are totally unrelated.

I will be the first to admit that I am not a stats major, but is it merely a statistical coincidence that 3.7 is the median matriculant GPA and it also appears to be the point where the number of applicants accepted = not accepted?

Throw the stats to the side, here is what I know: a 2.9 is deadly if for no other reason than many if not most med schools screen GPAs and there is a big chance this applicant will never get past the primary or secondary app stage...a 3.0 is not much better, but since it appears that many schools only screen the sub 3.0 GPAs for further consideration, anything she could do to raise that GPA through a post bacc would be of great benefit (and we don't even know what she got for the pre-reqs; if she had any grades below "C" they probably have to be retaken anyway)...

 

[MilkmanAl]

I guess so, yes. I haven't seen the new MSAR and gave mine away, so I can't go check on that myself, unfortunately.

 

[flip26]

I guess so, yes. I haven't seen the new MSAR and gave mine away, so I can't go check on that myself, unfortunately.

I think you may be correct, actually. Someone posted a stat on another thread that kind of surprised me, but the MSAR backs it up: for MCAT, the median matriculant composite is around 31 now, but the score at which the "lines cross" is just 28...i.e., accepted applicants = not accepted applicants at a score of 28...so the GPA numbers do appear to be coincidental...

 

[MilkmanAl]

Yay for statistics! I knew that physics major would be good for something.

 

[tiedyeddog]

SMP seems like the road to go.....