Parents involved in applications?

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Cytokine2014

Cytokine2014

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I've noticed a fair number of parents on here, asking questions for their kids or otherwise involving themselves... Is that normal?

I know preparing for medical school and applying is like a full time job but if you can't do it without your parents getting in there for you, are you really ready for it? That isn't the doctor I would want. Is there some reason for parents to get involved that I am not seeing?

The disclaimer is my parents only have a high school education so they weren't even involved in my college applications.
 
I could go either way with college apps, but it's definitely ridiculous for parents to be involved in medical school apps. If you don't know how to think for yourself, you shouldn't be applying to medical school.
 
I'm in the same boat as you - my parents don't know the first thing about higher education. Even if they did I would think it was weird if they were overly involved.

I may ask them to help with a couple of app fees though. They offered to pay for my MCAT since they saw me spend so much damn money on study supplies.
 
I mean I went over my personal statement copiously with both my parents. They're educated adults who have great perspectives on writing and can find stuff in the statement I would have overlooked by myself.

I had my mom read over my primary for spelling errors, too. Didn't want to leave anything to chance there!
 
panda16 said:
I mean I went over my personal statement copiously with both my parents. They're educated adults who have great perspectives on writing and can find stuff in the statement I would have overlooked by myself.

I had my mom read over my primary for spelling errors, too. Didn't want to leave anything to chance there!
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That makes sense - I'm talking about people whose parents are on SDN, or calling medical schools for info, or going to workshops and stuff. Who are doing the med school equivalent of making their kid's diorama for them.
 
Cytokine2014 said:
That makes sense - I'm talking about people whose parents are on SDN, or calling medical schools for info, or going to workshops and stuff. Who are doing the med school equivalent of making their kid's diorama for them.
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Ahh yeah that's a bit much, agreed.

ActorENFP said:
It's not nearly as bad as CollegeConfidential here. That place is wild. "D1 just got into XYZ school. DH is thrilled. S2 waitlisted." (translation: Daughter 1 just got into XYZ school. Dear Husband is thrilled. Son 2 is waitlisted.)

But yea that's what happens when you're a bored stay at home mom.
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Preeeeeeach
 
At age 22 or 24, you are probably capable of applying to medical school on your own. However, by the time you finish medical school, you will apply to residency, and you will fill out more applications, and have more interviews. Later, there will be job interviews, and even more experience. So, 20, or 30 or 40 years from now, you will know more about how to fill out an application and behave in an interview than you do now. Don't you think that you will want to share your experience with your children? Don't you think that they would be wise to listen? Of course, some parents don't have applicable experiences, but many do.

I'm talking about people whose parents are on SDN, or calling medical schools for info, or going to workshops and stuff. Who are doing the med school equivalent of making their kid's diorama for them.
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I agree with your sentiments completely, but just you wait and see how you feel about it when it's your kid's diorama.
 
Cytokine2014 said:
I've noticed a fair number of parents on here, asking questions for their kids or otherwise involving themselves... Is that normal?

I know preparing for medical school and applying is like a full time job but if you can't do it without your parents getting in there for you, are you really ready for it? That isn't the doctor I would want. Is there some reason for parents to get involved that I am not seeing?

The disclaimer is my parents only have a high school education so they weren't even involved in my college applications.
Click to expand...

Most parents are invested in their children's success. It does not reflect poorly on the child for having parental assistance in their application process. It is more of an unknown, can the applicant do as well without the generous support of their family? But, just because they get help, doesn't mean that they can't. Getting help makes the process easier. You could just as easily argue that it reflects poorly on an applicant to not use every bit of help that they can and shelve their pride. That is how things work in the real world, why not the application process?

Should parents be teaching their children to be self reliant and not doing things for them? Of course. But, again, getting help on an application process is not exactly detrimental. If it was, the same could be said about living at home or getting financial assistance from your parents... Which are both sound decisions for many people.
 
In my opinion, parents should NOT be involved in the application process past proofreading (as one opinion among many), and financial support. Before eating me alive please try to understand I say this with the success of the student in mind!! (I also feel that it should be clear that I am a recently accepted student so I say these statements about the challenges of medical school based on what others say and not based on actual experience)

I understand the desire for parents to want their student to succeed and feel supported. I don't deny that it may seem crucial for the student's success, but I would be concerned for a young person's ability to handle the stresses and vigor of medical school if they don't have a driving force inside of them to help them through it. Medical school isn't just for people who are smart and interested, it is for people who are strongly motivated to stay up late studying and debate endlessly to try and determine the best care options for case studies who aren't even real. Medical school (and residency past that) will work you until you are exhausted and push you to your limit, and it should to help create doctors who are determined and dedicated to their field. If a parent is driving a student to go down a path they will never feel it is their own. If a person wants something they will keep working until it is a reality. I applied three times, each time working incredibly hard to improve my experiences and my expression of myself. I got financial support from my parents, and they proofread my statements. I researched the schools, and I read the forums, and I evaluated statistics though. The only person who could write a compelling secondary to a school is me. I have to know why it is a good representation of my connection to medicine, and how it will help me be a stronger doctor to be with a specific program.

It is just my opinion, and I am sure many will disagree (which is fine). How can a person go down a demanding path like medicine, which is so dedicated to helping others, without knowing they are the one who got themselves there. I feel significantly empowered to know I am starting this path based almost entirely on my own hard work. I would want that for other newly accepted students as well.
 
I estimate that between 5 and 10% of the calls received in the admissions office are parents. They are relentless.
Parents sign applicants in on interview day. Beaming.
We have had to remove parents from the area where the applicants are waiting for presentations from the dean.
We have had to call security to escort parents from the premises for demanding to speak to the dean and "sitting in."
Parents have made threats.
I could go on, but the extent of parental intrusion can reach epic proportions.
 
bc65 said:
At age 22 or 24, you are probably capable of applying to medical school on your own. However, by the time you finish medical school, you will apply to residency, and you will fill out more applications, and have more interviews. Later, there will be job interviews, and even more experience. So, 20, or 30 or 40 years from now, you will know more about how to fill out an application and behave in an interview than you do now. Don't you think that you will want to share your experience with your children? Don't you think that they would be wise to listen? Of course, some parents don't have applicable experiences, but many do.



I agree with your sentiments completely, but just you wait and see how you feel about it when it's your kid's diorama.
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Most colleges have pre health / pre med advising and committees. They don't have to get the support from their parents. Plus, medicine is a huge professional choice. My mom always told me that she wouldn't help me up into a tree I wanted to climb because if I couldn't get up by myself, I wouldn't be able to get down either.


It's one thing to share some advice based on your experience. It's another thing entirely to be deeply involved in asking the Internet for help with your kid's application, aggressively choosing how they should dress in interviews, hounding them to study harder for a test/the MCAT or reminding them which components of their application need attention next.
 
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mimelim said:
Most parents are invested in their children's success. It does not reflect poorly on the child for having parental assistance in their application process. It is more of an unknown, can the applicant do as well without the generous support of their family? But, just because they get help, doesn't mean that they can't. Getting help makes the process easier. You could just as easily argue that it reflects poorly on an applicant to not use every bit of help that they can and shelve their pride. That is how things work in the real world, why not the application process?

Should parents be teaching their children to be self reliant and not doing things for them? Of course. But, again, getting help on an application process is not exactly detrimental. If it was, the same could be said about living at home or getting financial assistance from your parents... Which are both sound decisions for many people.
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It's helpful in that you can probably increase their odds of success, but it seems like it's pretty devastating to their self-reliance. You won't always be around. What's going to happen when they have to be the adult? Shouldn't that be happening by the time they're at an age to apply to medical school? Development of character is also a resource, and it keeps giving long after parents can. I'm not saying that they should stubbornly refuse help - that's not smart. But parents getting extensively involved strikes me as inappropriate on many levels.
 
italiancowgirl said:
I understand the desire for parents to want their student to succeed and feel supported. I don't deny that it may seem crucial for the student's success, but I would be concerned for a young person's ability to handle the stresses and vigor of medical school if they don't have a driving force inside of them to help them through it. Medical school isn't just for people who are smart and interested, it is for people who are strongly motivated to stay up late studying and debate endlessly to try and determine the best care options for case studies who aren't even real. Medical school (and residency past that) will work you until you are exhausted and push you to your limit, and it should to help create doctors who are determined and dedicated to their field.
Click to expand...

@italiancowgirl I can't like that enough
 
No Hollywood writer could come up with this!!!

I wanna hear more!!

We have had to call security to escort parents from the premises for demanding to speak to the dean and "sitting in."
Parents have made threats.
I could go on, but the extent of parental intrusion can reach epic proportions.
 
Goro said:
No Hollywood writer could come up with this!!!

I wanna hear more!!

We have had to call security to escort parents from the premises for demanding to speak to the dean and "sitting in."
Parents have made threats.
I could go on, but the extent of parental intrusion can reach epic proportions.
Click to expand...
It's not pretty.
Faculty parents are especially embarrassing when darling child gets wait listed.
 
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Me: Hey Dad, I just got back from my first medical school interview?
Dad: You had an interview? Oh right, sorry I forgot, how'd it go?
Me: It went well, thanks.
Dad: I knew it would.

That's as involved as my parents will get. Lol.
 
Toward the end of my senior year of undergrad I was casually drinking at the pool and started talking to a couple girls, one of which happened to be a pre-med (this was a memorable experience for me since I can count the number of times I met a fellow pre-med drinking at pool parties on one hand). Anyway, she had just got accepted into the #1 school in my state and was bragging the application process and how she "literally did not do anything - my parents did it all, including the essays." :laugh:

TBH I don't really mind these type of people, just means there's one less person in my class I have to worry about competing with.
 
Womb Raider said:
TBH I don't really mind these type of people, just means there's one less person in my class I have to worry about competing with.
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Ha, good point. I just worry for those people a little - reality will hit hard someday! Makes me think of...
ImageUploadedBySDN Mobile1433613547.526141.jpg
 
hoihaie said:
but she turned out just fine
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She did. And I have a lot of fondness for the character. But this also isn't about a TV show - it's about real people. Helicopter parents who are over-involved and prevent their kids from taking responsibility for their own lives and choices.
 
Lol at applicants who don't take charge in the app process.

I refuse to call those applicants adults. They are just overgrown kids to me.
 
gyngyn said:
I estimate that between 5 and 10% of the calls received in the admissions office are parents. They are relentless.
Parents sign applicants in on interview day. Beaming.
We have had to remove parents from the area where the applicants are waiting for presentations from the dean.
We have had to call security to escort parents from the premises for demanding to speak to the dean and "sitting in."
Parents have made threats.
I could go on, but the extent of parental intrusion can reach epic proportions.
Click to expand...

I have heard about parents that are still overly involved in their children's lives as a medical student
 
Well, it's a bit too much, but I can't say they're not extremely lucky to have people so invested in their success.

It absolutely sucks when you don't have anyone to lean on to help you and have to worry about every little thing yourself. I would love for parents or sibling or any family who knew me to read my personal statement, help out with the fees. Heck, even a hug or just the knowledge that you have that supporting net to catch you when you fall must be so relieving. Independence is totally overrated when going through the application process. :meh:
 
The Cheat said:
Lol at applicants who don't take charge in the app process.

I refuse to call those applicants adults. They are just overgrown kids to me.
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I feel like this can fall into two or three categories.

1. Students who have helicopter parents that they don't want. These students would try to take charge of their own lives anyway.

2. Codependent students with helicopter parents who willfully rely on their parents because they want something but haven't gotten the chance to try and fail and learn how to pick themselves up / fix their mistakes.

3. Students whose parents pressure them into medicine by helicoptering.

Thoughts?

I think that oftentimes I'm disinclined to blame the student unless they are willfully disorganized. Formative experiences happen when you mess up, or struggle. I worry that too few kids get this chance with helicopter parenting.
 
Psai said:
I have heard about parents that are still overly involved in their children's lives as a medical student
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One Mom comes to mind.
We caught her writing dear daughter's pre-round notes on the surgical floor. She said the darling was just too tired to come in early.
Another one applied for every scholarship as if she were her son. She also called to complain when she thought test questions were ambiguously written!
More recently, a Mom threatened suicide if we didn't excuse her son's unexcused absence. Had to call the cops...
 
gyngyn said:
One Mom comes to mind.
We caught her writing dear daughter's pre-round notes on the surgical floor. She said the darling was just too tired to come in early.
Another one applied for every scholarship as if she were her son. She also called to complain when she thought test questions were ambiguously written!
More recently, a Mom threatened suicide if we didn't excuse her son's unexcused absence. Had to call the cops...
Click to expand...

Oh my. This is truly beyond my wildest imagination.
 
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Having unwanted helicopter parents won't prevent applicants from taking charge in my eyes. Filling out AMCAS independently, preparing for the MCAT, getting good grades, doing ECs an applicant likes are all ways to get away from helicopter parents.

If some parents can't let go of their kids, then it might be time to calmly explain to those parents how helicoptering is a far greater liability now than when their kids were younger.
 
The Cheat said:
Having unwanted helicopter parents won't prevent applicants from taking charge in my eyes. Filling out AMCAS independently, preparing for the MCAT, getting good grades, doing ECs an applicant likes are all ways to get away from helicopter parents.

If some parents can't let go of their kids, then it might be time to calmly explain to those parents how helicoptering is a far greater liability now than when their kids were younger.
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Or just drawing a line in the sand.

I have a friend whose mom would call campus security and report her as a missing person if she didn't call home every day. She finally had to disassociate for a few months to make her point. It meant disentangling from all the nets used to keep her in line. She couldn't keep going back for the bait of having someone else pay bills, do laundry, buy groceries, etc. Every time she accepted help, she invited further meddling in her affairs. Only by cutting all ties for a while, and somehow managing not to die or be thrown out of school, was she able to reach a point where she and her mom could respect one another as adults.

If she hadn't been willing to shoulder the full responsibility for meeting all her own needs, she would have kept sending mixed signals and nothing would have changed.
 
gyngyn said:
One Mom comes to mind.
We caught her writing dear daughter's pre-round notes on the surgical floor. She said the darling was just too tired to come in early.
Another one applied for every scholarship as if she were her son. She also called to complain when she thought test questions were ambiguously written!
More recently, a Mom threatened suicide if we didn't excuse her son's unexcused absence. Had to call the cops...
Click to expand...

ok lol the stories i have aren't even close
writing pre-round notes jesus
 
johnnytest said:
Me: Hey Dad, I just got back from my first medical school interview?
Dad: You had an interview? Oh right, sorry I forgot, how'd it go?
Me: It went well, thanks.
Dad: I knew it would.

That's as involved as my parents will get. Lol.
Click to expand...

That's about the extent of my parents involvement too haha. As far as they are concerned, their peak proudness of me came when I got a job and moved out. As it should be!
 
GummyBeh said:
Well, it's a bit too much, but I can't say they're not extremely lucky to have people so invested in their success.

It absolutely sucks when you don't have anyone to lean on to help you and have to worry about every little thing yourself. I would love for parents or sibling or any family who knew me to read my personal statement, help out with the fees. Heck, even a hug or just the knowledge that you have that supporting net to catch you when you fall must be so relieving. Independence is totally overrated when going through the application process. :meh:
Click to expand...

This is so real. And I agree with you. I applied to college by myself and while I now have advising through my undergrad, my parents are unable to offer much beyond being happy for me that I get the chance to apply. Still, I know that I am lucky to have even that. And I can't say I'd encourage complete independence, just reasonable self-reliance. Complete independence is... hard. And very lonely. And unreasonable because we are by nature communal creatures. It takes a village, and all that.

So, internet hugs to you! I know it is hard. Congratulations to you for making it so far by yourself, and I really hope that you end up with some good people in your corner. Everyone should have that.
 
Cytokine2014 said:
I feel like this can fall into two or three categories.

1. Students who have helicopter parents that they don't want. These students would try to take charge of their own lives anyway.
Click to expand...

I'm in this category. It's incredibly difficult. And of course, every time I say I'm an adult, they bring up the fact that they pay my cell phone and car payment, so I am still a child and not an adult. They then proceed to call me selfish, ungrateful, disrespectful, and spoiled. It is incredibly unfair.

Our most recent argument was about the fact that I don't wish to share my MCAT score with them. It's all well and good sharing it anonymously on the internet, but telling my parents, who will proceed to tell 50 of their closest friends and family, and then those people will tell everyone they know, does not sound appealing to me.
 
It depends a lot on the nature and extent of the involvement. I think running your essays past them is ok, as well as gaining financial support from them. If your parents have to fill out your whole activities section, write your PS and secondary essays, you might have a problem.
 
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gyngyn said:
One Mom comes to mind.
We caught her writing dear daughter's pre-round notes on the surgical floor. She said the darling was just too tired to come in early.
Another one applied for every scholarship as if she were her son. She also called to complain when she thought test questions were ambiguously written!
More recently, a Mom threatened suicide if we didn't excuse her son's unexcused absence. Had to call the cops...
Click to expand...
You should really speak to Hollywood about this!
 
Tired said:
This is usually the part where someone chimes in that you're being culturally insensitive, because that kind of behavior is acceptable in certain parts of the world.
Click to expand...

Many of the things listed here are absolutely things that would be looked at as perfectly normal and often actually necessary in the mind of many parents in different parts of the world.
 
Tired said:
This is usually the part where someone chimes in that you're being culturally insensitive, because that kind of behavior is acceptable in certain parts of the world.
Click to expand...

Many of the things listed here are absolutely things that would be looked at as perfectly normal and often actually necessary in the mind of many parents in different parts of the world.
 
GrapesofRath said:
Many of the things listed here are absolutely things that would be looked at as perfectly normal and often actually necessary in the mind of many parents in different parts of the world.
Click to expand...

I've actually seen quite a few posts by students from Eastern cultures complaining about/asking for advice with their helicopter parents on this forum.
 
GrapesofRath said:
Many of the things listed here are absolutely things that would be looked at as perfectly normal and often actually necessary in the mind of many parents in different parts of the world.
Click to expand...

As a humble pre-med, I believe that it is important that applicants take on the app process as independently as is possible for them. Parents should understand this and if they can't understand this after being explained to several times, the it might be time to draw @Promethean proverbial line in the sand.
 
My mother did not even help with college applications, much less medical school ones. The absolute extent of her involvement involved me asking her in what month she moved to Florida when she was 5 (not a joke) and what her new job title and classification is. I think there might have been a question about my father in there as well but I can't remember. I am not exactly on the best of speaking terms with my parents.
 
That's 2x in the same thread that you have dropped something that no screenwriter could possibly ever imagine....from Ben Casey to General Hospital to Medical Center to St Elsewhere to even Chicago Hope.

Note to you young people, these are medical shows that gyngyn and I can relate to.

I'll play: we had one student about to be kicked out of school for multiple course failures. The kid's dad made kid come in and went to different Deans and course coordinators (including me) with the kid. Against my better judgement, I actually listened to the guy, but it was unbelievably embarrassing. I should have kicked the guy out of my office, or at least said, pointing to the kid "i'll talk to them, but not to you.'



gyngyn said:
One Mom comes to mind.
We caught her writing dear daughter's pre-round notes on the surgical floor. She said the darling was just too tired to come in early.
Another one applied for every scholarship as if she were her son. She also called to complain when she thought test questions were ambiguously written!
More recently, a Mom threatened suicide if we didn't excuse her son's unexcused absence. Had to call the cops...
Click to expand...
 
Cytokine2014 said:
So, internet hugs to you! I know it is hard. Congratulations to you for making it so far by yourself, and I really hope that you end up with some good people in your corner. Everyone should have that.
Click to expand...
aw shucks :biglove:
 
I have a blessing and a curse. My father is a doctor and my mother a teacher.............need I say more? Kept their involvement at bay at all times. Wanted to do this ALL on my own. I actually hoped that at my interviews, no one would equate my name etc. Laughing at some of the above situations described by gyngyn. It would make a great comedy sitcom............."How to Get Your Kid through Medical School"!
 
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chocoholicsoxfan said:
I'm in this category. It's incredibly difficult. And of course, every time I say I'm an adult, they bring up the fact that they pay my cell phone and car payment, so I am still a child and not an adult. They then proceed to call me selfish, ungrateful, disrespectful, and spoiled. It is incredibly unfair.

Our most recent argument was about the fact that I don't wish to share my MCAT score with them. It's all well and good sharing it anonymously on the internet, but telling my parents, who will proceed to tell 50 of their closest friends and family, and then those people will tell everyone they know, does not sound appealing to me.
Click to expand...

Yes, I was wondering how it is on the receiving end! I imagine it's a giant pain. There's a difference between adulthood and financial independence... You can have one and not the other, for sure. I won't go into the math and economic change since they were your age, but it's totally a thing.

People who make you feel like your life isn't your own = the worst. That's really hard. I feel like if parents want their kids to be adults, they have to give them the chance and not invalidate their choices all the time.

I wish you luck with that!
 
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