PA's teaching at DO schools

[Bacchus]

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There was also a student from KCUMB that said it doesn't happen there. So running list, from this thread:


RVU
PCOM
UNECOM
KCUMB
NYCOM

Second post rules out PCOM.

 

[MightyMoose]

Second post rules out PCOM.

That is a running list of schools that DON'T utilize PA's or other non DO/PhD's to teach their courses, which is why PCOM was on the list. 😉

 

[Bacchus]

That is a running list of schools that DON'T utilize PA's or other non DO/PhD's to teach their courses, which is why PCOM was on the list. 😉

Woops, haha.

 

[MLT2MT2DO]

Eh.. before jumping to any conclusions, I'd take it to mean, "Instructor through the Department of Family Medicine." Also notice, they don't call him a professor.

And probably of lesser importance, the wording is, "Instructor in Family Medicine," not, "Instructor of Family Medicine."

Fair enough, so what do you suppose an Instructor in Family Medicine does with a Master's of English Ed.? Helps proofread H&Ps?

Additionally FWIW, they have an associate professor of Pathology who has her PhD in Plant Pathology. Another PhD in plant Pathology associate professor of Biochem (probably closer to acceptable).

These are two instances where I think I would prefer to have a P.A. (Pathologist Assistant for pathology, Physician Assistant for whatever the English grad does) to current faculty.


Edit: I'd like to make it clear I am not attempting to undermine the aboves education (my wife has a masters in english ed), but am just not sure they should be teaching me or others how to be a physician.

 

[Flushot]

Bingo. I don't want to mess with it here before the situation is resolved. Although it's not exactly secret knowledge - I would encourage anybody applying to schools to ask students there if there if they have any PA's on the clinical faculty.

I appreciate all of your responses, and I am definitely going to be doing something about this. I'll let you know what happens.

Good luck on working out the details.

However, I will play it from the flip side as to why people want to know. Like I said earlier in my post, people would like to know down the grapevine rather than ask something that a lot of people would assume. We've never had any PAs teach clinical courses and probably would never expect to, but apparently, this is happening.

Another reason is the BS factor. Although I believe you, people give anecdotal evidence all the time with no names or ties, usually citing their fear of identifying anyone or anything.

Also, I don't think it would be that easy of a thing to ask on an interview. Asking if PAs or other midlevels teach clinical education is a very defensive question and even then, they may not give you a straight answer. Hearing straight from the students' mouth that it is happening at their school would be valuable to prospective candidates as to whether or not it is a deal breaker.

There was also a student from KCUMB that said it doesn't happen there. So running list, from this thread:


RVU
PCOM
UNECOM
KCUMB
NYCOM

You might as well add AZCOM to that list. Out of the witch hunt like paranoia, I looked up that PA who gave us that guest lecture and she did have a PhD as well, so that no longer counts.

It still bugs me that I have to do this for my own school but maybe people could state why they want to know other than for their own curiosity. I noted that maybe some applicants would want to know, but for us as students already, what would we do with this info?

 

[snurpy]

You can also add TouroCOM NY. Only MD/DOs, PhDs.

 

[MightyMoose]

It still bugs me that I have to do this for my own school but maybe people could state why they want to know other than for their own curiosity. I noted that maybe some applicants would want to know, but for us as students already, what would we do with this info?

Pass it along to others inquiring about schools, differences, etc..


Running list:

RVU
PCOM
UNECOM
KCUMB
NYCOM
AZCOM
Touro-NY

 

[dozitgetchahi]

We might be able to figure it out via elimination. So far we have had students state that RVU, PCOM, and UNECOM only have DO/MD/PhD. How about current students from other schools?

I don't believe it's UMDNJ-SOM. Almost all clinical lectures are done by DO/MDs; we had a few oral path lectures done by DMDs, a physical therapy lecture done by a DPT, a few nutrition and/or genetics lectures done by MSN/RDs, and that's about it. The bulk of basic science lecs were done by PhD/PharmDs with a handful done by residents. I can't think of any lecturing that was done by PAs.

 

[Medbear]

Not at PCSOM

 

[lftbndlbrnchblk]

They have a 16 year old who just got his CPR cert teaching the Cardiology block at AZCOM. Just kidding... I love AZCOM. 😉

Going to AZCOM actually. Looking through the professor's list and I don't see any PAs teaching the med school courses. I guess I'll find out in the fall. Why is this a problem? PAs know their basic stuff as well as DOs/MDs do. I'd like to have a PhD in those subjects teach me but will take another professional any day of the week. I guess I'm naive?

 

[cliffhuxtableDO]

i checked the full and part time faculty of VCOM and there were no PA's listed, so i guess add it to the list.

 

[Just Joshin]

I guess I'm naive?

Yes. ShyRem explained this very well. PAs don't learn the why. They just learn what is. For medicine, I think we all deserve someone who knows the why with all the tuition we pay.

Not to hijack the thread, but what about schools that have faculty (MD or DO) who haven't done a residency teaching? They're not PhD's so they don't have the knowledge in say Biochem like a PhD would have and they haven't done a residency so they don't know the ins and outs of clinical medicine. Would you guys have a problem with them teaching?

 

[Flushot]

They have a 16 year old who just got his CPR cert teaching the Cardiology block at AZCOM. Just kidding... I love AZCOM. 😉

Going to AZCOM actually. Looking through the professor's list and I don't see any PAs teaching the med school courses. I guess I'll find out in the fall. Why is this a problem? PAs know their basic stuff as well as DOs/MDs do. I'd like to have a PhD in those subjects teach me but will take another professional any day of the week. I guess I'm naive?

It was a guest lecture in Phys on NIDDM management, if I remember correctly. I honestly don't even believe it was planned in the long term; I think Dr. Call was out of town that week or something and couldn't give that lecture. He gave all of the other endocrine lectures.

AZCOM has no PAs scheduled for any classes. If there was even 1, someone from my class would've gone to the higher ups.

 

[deleted6669]

Dr simon, one of the asst. deans at atsu soma is a pa:

Administration

Jack Magruder, Ph.D., Ed.D., ATSU President

Craig Phelps, D.O., FAOASM, '84, Provost

O.T. Wendel, Ph.D., Associate Provost

Gary Cloud, Ph.D, M.B.A., Assistant Provost, Associate Dean for Financial Resources

Douglas Wood, D.O., Ph.D., Dean

Albert Simon, DHSc., PA-C, Assistant Dean for Teamwork & Operations

Tom McWilliams, D.O., FACOFP, Associate Dean for Community Campuses

Raymond Pavlick, Ph.D., Assistant Dean for Curriculum

Trudy Kuo, Ph.D., Assistant Dean for Assessment

 

[Bacchus]

Dr simon, one of the asst. deans at atsu soma is a pa:

Administration

Jack Magruder, Ph.D., Ed.D., ATSU President

Craig Phelps, D.O., FAOASM, '84, Provost

O.T. Wendel, Ph.D., Associate Provost

Gary Cloud, Ph.D, M.B.A., Assistant Provost, Associate Dean for Financial Resources

Douglas Wood, D.O., Ph.D., Dean

Albert Simon, DHSc., PA-C, Assistant Dean for Teamwork & Operations

Tom McWilliams, D.O., FACOFP, Associate Dean for Community Campuses

Raymond Pavlick, Ph.D., Assistant Dean for Curriculum

Trudy Kuo, Ph.D., Assistant Dean for Assessment

Probably hired since he has a doctorate degree (DHsc) and the campus has that program.

 

[NYEMMED]

Dr simon, one of the asst. deans at atsu soma is a pa:

Administration

Jack Magruder, Ph.D., Ed.D., ATSU President

Craig Phelps, D.O., FAOASM, '84, Provost

O.T. Wendel, Ph.D., Associate Provost

Gary Cloud, Ph.D, M.B.A., Assistant Provost, Associate Dean for Financial Resources

Douglas Wood, D.O., Ph.D., Dean

Albert Simon, DHSc., PA-C, Assistant Dean for Teamwork & Operations

Tom McWilliams, D.O., FACOFP, Associate Dean for Community Campuses

Raymond Pavlick, Ph.D., Assistant Dean for Curriculum

Trudy Kuo, Ph.D., Assistant Dean for Assessment

He also has a doctorate in Health Science, and is in a non-clinical, non-teaching role, (teamwork and operations), purely administrative, either way his doctorate probably qualifies him for that position

 

[JaggerPlate]

Doctorate in Health Science + doesn't sound like he's anywhere near pre-clinical sciences.

Dr simon, one of the asst. deans at atsu soma is a pa:

Administration

Jack Magruder, Ph.D., Ed.D., ATSU President

Craig Phelps, D.O., FAOASM, '84, Provost

O.T. Wendel, Ph.D., Associate Provost

Gary Cloud, Ph.D, M.B.A., Assistant Provost, Associate Dean for Financial Resources

Douglas Wood, D.O., Ph.D., Dean

Albert Simon, DHSc., PA-C, Assistant Dean for Teamwork & Operations

Tom McWilliams, D.O., FACOFP, Associate Dean for Community Campuses

Raymond Pavlick, Ph.D., Assistant Dean for Curriculum

Trudy Kuo, Ph.D., Assistant Dean for Assessment

 

[Bacchus]

It's a little ridiculous to be so picky about his degree. He's in an administrative role that is not related to clinical sciences. Universities often employ lower degrees in their admission offices, student services, academic services, etc.

 

[JaggerPlate]

It's a little ridiculous to be so picky about his degree. He's in an administrative role that is not related to clinical sciences. Universities often employ lower degrees in their admission offices, student services, academic services, etc.

Agreed ... many admin people just have BS/BAs. However, I think people were just responding to the fact that his job really involves the health science doctorate far more than the PA degree, and it's highly unlikely that he'd teach any courses using the PA knowledge.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

BTW...if a school were to be using PAs in this fashion, what's the chance that they'd be officially listed as administrators/lecturers/etc? IMHO they'd probably be filed under the nebulous category of "adjunct clinical professor/instructor/lecturer" of which most medical schools have dozens (if not hundreds @ some allo institutions). I feel like any school pulling this crap probably wouldn't officially list these "instructors" anywhere.

And it is really disappointing, honestly. Even the Carib schools don't do this.

 

[Isoprop]

Wouldn't mind having PAs as professors when I enter med school this fall. As long as they can teach the subject well. Don't give a crap about the letters after his or her name.

 

[cbrons]

Wouldn't mind having PAs as professors when I enter med school this fall. As long as they can teach the subject well. Don't give a crap about the letters after his or her name.

My guess is most people who will be paying the extortionist amount of tuition $ will want physicians or full professors teaching their courses

 

[MedStudentWanna]

Wouldn't mind having PAs as professors when I enter med school this fall. As long as they can teach the subject well. Don't give a crap about the letters after his or her name.

Yeah, wait until you're actually a student.

 

[WDeagle]

Wouldn't mind having PAs as professors when I enter med school this fall. As long as they can teach the subject well. Don't give a crap about the letters after his or her name.

Alright you already got in to school. No need to give the pre-med answers that you think ADCOMs will want to hear.

 

[JPanda]

gentle ladies and gentlemen,
grow up; in the long run, this wont really matter.

 

[Isoprop]

My guess is most people who will be paying the extortionist amount of tuition $ will want physicians or full professors teaching their courses

Yep that's fine. I can see that.

Yeah, wait until you're actually a student.

Yeah I will and I probably wouldn't change my mind. Plenty of MDs and PhDs are bad at teaching. If a PA can teach it better, I don't care that he went to school for 2 years vs 4 years.

I've learned that an XYZ degree doesn't alone qualify you to be a good teacher. In undergrad, ever had a grad student do a better job at teaching than a full professor?

Alright you already got in to school. No need to give the pre-med answers that you think ADCOMs will want to hear.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

Yep that's fine. I can see that.



Yeah I will and I probably wouldn't change my mind. Plenty of MDs and PhDs are bad at teaching. If a PA can teach it better, I don't care that he went to school for 2 years vs 4 years.

I've learned that an XYZ degree doesn't alone qualify you to be a good teacher. In undergrad, ever had a grad student do a better job at teaching than a full professor?



Thanks for the advice.

There's a difference between teaching a basic science course (where you can read a few review articles on the topic and still give a reasonable lecture) and teaching a clinical course where you're supposed to learn to think like a physician.

The OP wrote "I'm talking about PA's in our lecture hall telling us how to diagnose and treat disease, when to refer, etc."

How can someone teach you how to think and practice like a physician if they're not a physician themselves? It's not just about who's a good teacher; it's about who can teach based on their experience as a physician. Can a graduate student teach you how to run a lab? Or will the professor, who's a PI, be better able to?

Edit: Just wanted to add that I haven't started med school yet, so I could be wrong. Feel free to correct me if I am.

 

[WDeagle]

There's a difference between teaching a basic science course (where you can read a few review articles on the topic and still give a reasonable lecture) and teaching a clinical course where you're supposed to learn to think like a physician.

The OP wrote "I'm talking about PA's in our lecture hall telling us how to diagnose and treat disease, when to refer, etc."

How can someone teach you how to think and practice like a physician if they're not a physician themselves? It's not just about who's a good teacher; it's about who can teach based on their experience as a physician. Can a graduate student teach you how to run a lab? Or will the professor, who's a PI, be better able to?

Edit: Just wanted to add that I haven't started med school yet, so I could be wrong. Feel free to correct me if I am.

No i agree. You are a wise one. Medicine is pretty nuanced. Just about anyone can be taught to pick up the easy and common stuff. The way physicians think is what separates them from mid-levels.

Example: There is an NP that i interact with alot on my current rotation. She was teaching another NP student how to differentiate what murmurs were systolic and diastolic based on some crazy mnemonic she came up with. All the students were like why dont you just think about what happens during diastole and systole instead, its easier and makes more sense. She looked at us like we were speaking german. This is a single example but it does emphasize that we are taught from the start of school to think from a pathophysiologic basis while mid-levels are not.

 

[Isoprop]

There's a difference between teaching a basic science course (where you can read a few review articles on the topic and still give a reasonable lecture) and teaching a clinical course where you're supposed to learn to think like a physician.

The OP wrote "I'm talking about PA's in our lecture hall telling us how to diagnose and treat disease, when to refer, etc."

How can someone teach you how to think and practice like a physician if they're not a physician themselves? It's not just about who's a good teacher; it's about who can teach based on their experience as a physician. Can a graduate student teach you how to run a lab? Or will the professor, who's a PI, be better able to?

Edit: Just wanted to add that I haven't started med school yet, so I could be wrong. Feel free to correct me if I am.

When I said that I don't care who teaches me as long as he or she is a good teacher, I was assuming that included a minimum competence of the material to teach it.

Do I think med students can learn something from seasoned PAs about the practice of medicine? Sure. I'd much rather have a PA good at teaching (who knew his sh**) than a MD/DO who was bad at teaching.

Also, in response to your last question: when I was being trained in a lab, I always went up to the grad students for questions because the PI (who was brilliant) couldn't teach for ****. So again, my answer is: whoever can teach me the material better.

 

[cliffhuxtableDO]

When I said that I don't care who teaches me as long as he or she is a good teacher, I was assuming that included a minimum competence of the material to teach it.

Do I think med students can learn something from seasoned PAs about the practice of medicine? Sure. I'd much rather have a PA good at teaching (who knew his sh**) than a MD/DO who was bad at teaching.

Also, in response to your last question: when I was being trained in a lab, I always went up to the grad students for questions because the PI (who was brilliant) couldn't teach for ****. So again, my answer is: whoever can teach me the material better.

ok so you're telling me you'd rather a PA teach you about cardiology, than a cardiologist? or a nurse practitioner teach you about family practice than a family physician? (if the PA/NP was a better teacher)

that's like if you had barry bonds teach you to shoot a free throw, when you were paying the chicago bulls to do the job.

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

When I said that I don't care who teaches me as long as he or she is a good teacher, I was assuming that included a minimum competence of the material to teach it.

Do I think med students can learn something from seasoned PAs about the practice of medicine? Sure. I'd much rather have a PA good at teaching (who knew his sh**) than a MD/DO who was bad at teaching.

Also, in response to your last question: when I was being trained in a lab, I always went up to the grad students for questions because the PI (who was brilliant) couldn't teach for ****. So again, my answer is: whoever can teach me the material better.

Regarding your first statement, the PA would fail to meet the minimum competency then, IMO. If you're teaching a clinical course on how to practice and think like a physician, the minimum competency should be that the person teaching it is a physician him/herself.

Regarding your last statement, you were asking the grad students questions on how to run a lab? Or were you asking them specifics of an experimental technique or why you're doing an experiment or something? In my several years of experience, no grad student has come close to the level of expertise that the PI has in terms of how to run a lab, write grants, etc. If you wanted to learn an experimental technique or something along those lines, pretty much anyone in the lab (from the lab tech to the post-doc) would do. If you wanted to learn how to run a lab, why would you try to learn from someone who has no experience running a lab? In the same vein, if you wanted to learn how to think/practice like a physician, it doesn't make sense to learn from someone who has no experience at all as a physician.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying you can't learn something from midlevels. I absolutely don't think that and I absolutely agree that you can learn a lot from midlevels. I just don't think that a midlevel can teach someone how to be a physician when they don't have any experience as a physician.

 

[Isoprop]

ok so you're telling me you'd rather a PA teach you about cardiology, than a cardiologist? or a nurse practitioner teach you about family practice than a family physician? (if the PA/NP was a better teacher)

that's like if you had barry bonds teach you to shoot a free throw, when you were paying the chicago bulls to do the job.

Again, knowing the material does not mean you can teach the material. My entire contention has been "i'd prefer whoever can teach the material the best regardless of his or her degree."

Regarding your first statement, the PA would fail to meet the minimum competency then, IMO. If you're teaching a clinical course on how to practice and think like a physician, the minimum competency should be that the person teaching it is a physician him/herself.

If you say so. Though I doubt all PAs would lack the competence to teach a clinical lecture to a bunch of medical students.

Regarding your last statement, you were asking the grad students questions on how to run a lab? Or were you asking them specifics of an experimental technique or why you're doing an experiment or something? In my several years of experience, no grad student has come close to the level of expertise that the PI has in terms of how to run a lab, write grants, etc. If you wanted to learn an experimental technique or something along those lines, pretty much anyone in the lab (from the lab tech to the post-doc) would do. If you wanted to learn how to run a lab, why would you try to learn from someone who has no experience running a lab? In the same vein, if you wanted to learn how to think/practice like a physician, it doesn't make sense to learn from someone who has no experience at all as a physician.

And exactly as you said, I was trying to learn lab techniques. But shouldn't the PI also be the best person for that job too? As far as running the lab, grant-writing, etc. an incompetent teacher is just as useless as a competent teacher who can't teach.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying you can't learn something from midlevels. I absolutely don't think that and I absolutely agree that you can learn a lot from midlevels. I just don't think that a midlevel can teach someone how to be a physician when they don't have any experience as a physician.

I'm not advocating that the entire medical school be run by PAs. I agree that students should learn how to be physicians by physicians. But a didactic course, even a clinical one, run by a PA doesn't necessarily translate to an inferior education.

So I will repeat what I said: as long as they can teach the subject well, I don't give a crap about what letters they have after their name.

 

[cliffhuxtableDO]

i get it, you want someone who relates the information to you. that doesn't change the fact that it is wrong in principle for a mid-level to teach someone how to be a physician of MEDICINE in MEDICAL school.

 

[Isoprop]

I'm not sure if I can summarily dismiss all PAs from teaching in medical school. I think it's best to take it on a case-by-case basis: the objectives of the course and the quality of the instructor.

 

[jobert]

I love PAs but their place is not within educating someone who will rank higher than them in medicine. I know a ton of brilliant PAs and NPs but ultimately the role of medical schools is to educate future physicians not PAs or NPs. It might be cheaper but its screwing us over.

 

[p1acebo]

I'm not sure if I can summarily dismiss all PAs from teaching in medical school. I think it's best to take it on a case-by-case basis: the objectives of the course and the quality of the instructor.

I agree with this, although to be completely honest my experience with PA's has not been the best.

 

[MightyMoose]

I'm not sure if I can summarily dismiss all PAs from teaching in medical school. I think it's best to take it on a case-by-case basis: the objectives of the course and the quality of the instructor.

I think the real issue with PA's teaching in medical school is that if a school does it and people still do well on the boards, then that will justify it and encourage them to get more PA's to teach the courses. I mean, why would you hire MD's/PhD's when you can get PA's for half the price or less?

Even in UG I often noticed a difference between the PhD instructors and MS instructors (only had 2 of these and both were awful). The people with the masters usually felt like they had something to prove, were often trying to wax their knowledge, and rarely knew anything outside what was in the text, if they even knew that...

I am poo pooing the idea of PA's teaching future physician's, because I believe we become products of our educational environment. And we should be learning from people we are aspiring to become, in both knowledge and skill, of which PA's frankly don't have as much, on average, as an MD/PhD.

 

[Isoprop]

I think the real issue with PA's teaching in medical school is that if a school does it and people still do well on the boards, then that will justify it and encourage them to get more PA's to teach the courses. I mean, why would you hire MD's/PhD's when you can get PA's for half the price or less?

Whoa, that's a slippery slope argument you got going on there. Perhaps a school will interpret great board scores as not needing to change the faculty because they have a good teaching staff. Could that not happen?

Even in UG I often noticed a difference between the PhD instructors and MS instructors (only had 2 of these and both were awful). The people with the masters usually felt like they had something to prove, were often trying to wax their knowledge, and rarely knew anything outside what was in the text, if they even knew that...

That's a nice personal anecdote. Here's mine: at my UG, many PhD professors were too far removed from sitting in the classroom to explain concepts in the scope of the class. The professor would go on tangents that distracted from the quality of his or her teaching. The MS instructors would keep our classroom discussion relevant to the points that we should learn at that level.

That doesn't mean all MS > PhD at teaching just like your example doesn't show that PhD > MS at teaching.

I am poo pooing the idea of PA's teaching future physician's, because I believe we become products of our educational environment. And we should be learning from people we are aspiring to become, in both knowledge and skill, of which PA's frankly don't have as much, on average, as an MD/PhD.

Wait, hold on. So we should learn from people we aspire to become... including PhDs. But I don't want to be a PhD. And I think the majority of my classmates won't either. So... why do we have PhDs teaching?

Oh right, it's because they possess some knowledge and skills that I would want to have as a physician. Now, I wonder if some other non-MDs could also make good teachers...

 

[cliffhuxtableDO]

No, learning from PhD's is preferred/desirable because they know the WHY... whereas, the PAs do not. Which is what other posters have been saying about why PA's teaching med school is unacceptable.

 

[mydogtobbi]

Again, knowing the material does not mean you can teach the material. My entire contention has been "i'd prefer whoever can teach the material the best regardless of his or her degree."



If you say so. Though I doubt all PAs would lack the competence to teach a clinical lecture to a bunch of medical students.



And exactly as you said, I was trying to learn lab techniques. But shouldn't the PI also be the best person for that job too? As far as running the lab, grant-writing, etc. an incompetent teacher is just as useless as a competent teacher who can't teach.



I'm not advocating that the entire medical school be run by PAs. I agree that students should learn how to be physicians by physicians. But a didactic course, even a clinical one, run by a PA doesn't necessarily translate to an inferior education.

So I will repeat what I said: as long as they can teach the subject well, I don't give a crap about what letters they have after their name.

Regarding your last sentence, a PA does not have the same depth of understanding that an MD/DO does. So, a PA cannot effectively teach medical students. No matter how good a person is at teaching, if she/he does not have an adequate background (in this case at the level of an MD/DO) of the subject matter, it won't work.

As for letters behind the name, they make ALL the difference. Different letters means different levels of understanding of the material and different levels of experience.

 

[mydogtobbi]

Whoa, that's a slippery slope argument you got going on there. Perhaps a school will interpret great board scores as not needing to change the faculty because they have a good teaching staff. Could that not happen?



That's a nice personal anecdote. Here's mine: at my UG, many PhD professors were too far removed from sitting in the classroom to explain concepts in the scope of the class. The professor would go on tangents that distracted from the quality of his or her teaching. The MS instructors would keep our classroom discussion relevant to the points that we should learn at that level.

That doesn't mean all MS > PhD at teaching just like your example doesn't show that PhD > MS at teaching.



Wait, hold on. So we should learn from people we aspire to become... including PhDs. But I don't want to be a PhD. And I think the majority of my classmates won't either. So... why do we have PhDs teaching?

Oh right, it's because they possess some knowledge and skills that I would want to have as a physician. Now, I wonder if some other non-MDs could also make good teachers...

Phds serve as content experts in their various fields. This is very different than a PA teaching a course. They are not physicians, and they are not content experts.

 

[Gold 5]

LECOM has also been officially stated in this thread as not having PAs teach pre-clinicals.

Anyone else think a majority of the "yes" answers are trolls?

TOUROCOM does not either

 

[p1acebo]

TOUROCOM does not either

Add MSUCOM to the list of no PA's.

 

[pa2ed]

Does it really matter who teaches as long as you learn the topic? The arrogance of some of the responses, from you who have yet to gain any real world experience, gives me pause and concern for the future. You wonder why you get no respect when you don't give any?

Technical stuff is OK, but not the "basic sciences"?

PAs don't do procedures. But wait, they do.

PAs only see level 3-5 patients, leaving the complicated level 1-2's to the doctor. Consults? PAs do consults?

PAs are perpetual residents.

PAs only work for specialists.

PAs can't prescribe.

PAs can't diagnose or treat.

Some of the MYTHS that are perpetuated on forums such as this.

I believe the origonal poster to be a troll... stiring the pot just a bit.

Advice from one who has been in practice for longer than most of you have been alive.

Take all the help, advice, teaching you can get, from anyone and everyone as your career progresses... be they a staff nurse, a Professor of English, a PA, a janitor. Medicine is serious, fun, complex and simple. If you think you can do it alone... you will not succeed.

Ed

PS... some of you should have paid more attention in the English Professor's class. Your grammer, punctuation and spelling are attrocious.

 

[nowanmd]

YOU might want to check the spelling of GRAMMAR and ATROCIOUS

 

[LesBois88]

Does it really matter who teaches as long as you learn the topic?

Yes, because you may learn it differently. Although I'll admit that PA's are usually not problematic in this regard, most NPs, CNA, etc. practice "flow chart medicine", and they will often admit that themselves. It is not an appropriate way to instruct medical students.

Your grammer, punctuation and spelling are attrocious.

lol

 

[MedStudentWanna]

I believe the origonal poster to be a troll... stiring the pot just a bit.

You have the nerve to call someone else a troll when your one and only post on SDN is wagging your finger at us for wondering if PA's are a good choice for teaching future physicians?

PS... some of you should have paid more attention in the English Professor's class. Your grammer, punctuation and spelling are attrocious.

Irony.

 

[JaggerPlate]

PS... some of you should have paid more attention in the English Professor's class. Your grammer, punctuation and spelling are attrocious.

Wheww, literally laughing out loud right now.

 

[Makati2008]

Does it really matter who teaches as long as you learn the topic? The arrogance of some of the responses, from you who have yet to gain any real world experience, gives me pause and concern for the future. You wonder why you get no respect when you don't give any?

Technical stuff is OK, but not the "basic sciences"?

PAs don't do procedures. But wait, they do.

PAs only see level 3-5 patients, leaving the complicated level 1-2's to the doctor. Consults? PAs do consults?

PAs are perpetual residents.

PAs only work for specialists.

PAs can't prescribe.

PAs can't diagnose or treat.

Some of the MYTHS that are perpetuated on forums such as this.

I believe the origonal poster to be a troll... stiring the pot just a bit.

Advice from one who has been in practice for longer than most of you have been alive.

Take all the help, advice, teaching you can get, from anyone and everyone as your career progresses... be they a staff nurse, a Professor of English, a PA, a janitor. Medicine is serious, fun, complex and simple. If you think you can do it alone... you will not succeed.

Ed

PS... some of you should have paid more attention in the English Professor's class. Your grammer, punctuation and spelling are attrocious.

1.)Bro if your a PA change your status its disrespectful
2.)Your tone is doing nothing more than making the anger boil over more in here
3.)I personally don't see any problem with us teaching some of the courses(I only mean an occasional lecture by no means being a course director in any med. school course) if we could provide proof/competence of us being able too.(Pharmacology for one but maybe my PA school taught us very well->3 Semesters of hardcore Pharm that was seperated from the systems with memorization/learning of tons and tons and tons of mechanisms,ADE,TX, etc... For ex, I don't think PA's should be teaching Physiology due to us getting only a small taste. Also I have noticed that some of the courses so far are harder(volume) but easier(knowledge tested) than in PA school. For example in Neuro I just aced the last test but in PA school I did the B-line all the way til the end of the course. Maybe it was due to the Professors trying to teach it at a PhD level with poor Neuroanatomy portion(the PA school the Med. school Neuro professors are very good to learn from and are there to help as much as possible) but I DO NOT think a PA should be teaching a Neuroanatomy section of a course the content is too important and too intense.

Sorry for typos long long day.
E.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

3.)I personally don't see any problem with us teaching some of the courses(I only mean an occasional lecture by no means being a course director in any med. school course) if we could provide proof/competence of us being able too.(Pharmacology for one but maybe my PA school taught us very well->3 Semesters of hardcore Pharm that was seperated from the systems with memorization/learning of tons and tons and tons of mechanisms,ADE,TX, etc...

You'd rather learn pharm from a PA than a PharmD?

For example in Neuro I just aced the last test but in PA school I did the B-line all the way til the end of the course.

I haven't been to PA school, but could it be that you'd seen the material before or at the very least, you already had a foundation in neuro and that's why you aced it in med school?