pass/fail pre-reqs

[pancakeman86]

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[xrevision]

they probably wont like it very much, but hey your mileage will vary

 

[pancakeman86]

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[AlanAlanine]

i think they really do want to see a letter grade for the year of general bio...

a passing grade doesn't really mean much, and it will probably hurt your chances.

 

[Lacheln]

At my undergrad all courses taken freshman year are recorded as P/F to keep the little overachiever froshies who have never seen a B in their lives from jumping off a building when they get their first C. So, I know it's not factored into your GPA by AMCAS. Hopkins requires that we release internally recorded grades from freshman year as part of the app, but no other school does. I would say that if you have grades from upper level courses then it will be less of a problem than if that's your only bio.

 

[JoltOfFuel]

If you're from Hopkins or somewhere else that gives mandatory pass/fail freshman year (it's only first semester now Break, and I think they're going to do away with that real soon. Also, not even Hopkins requires internal release anymore) I'm 99% sure it's not a problem. But since you said it was only the 2 bio classes, it sounds like you deliberately pass/failed them.

Since you have very little bio otherwise, I think this could hurt you. You're supposed to have grades for all the prereqs....

JoF

 

[pancakeman86]

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[Lacheln]

If you're from Hopkins or somewhere else that gives mandatory pass/fail freshman year (it's only first semester now Break, and I think they're going to do away with that real soon. Also, not even Hopkins requires internal release anymore) I'm 99% sure it's not a problem. But since you said it was only the 2 bio classes, it sounds like you deliberately pass/failed them.

Since you have very little bio otherwise, I think this could hurt you. You're supposed to have grades for all the prereqs....

JoF

My undergrad wasn't Hopkins, I meant Hopkins med requires release of grades, and I think that's still true (at least it's what the premed office said this summer). But actually I misspoke anyway - I meant to say my undergrad has Pass/No Record, so less than a C doesn't even show up on your external transcript. And yes, you're right, I just checked, 2nd semester is ABC/No Record now.

thanks breeak for your reply and not just saying "it won't look good". I know it won't help my chances, but I don't see why it would hurt my chances severly. What I can't wrap my head around is that if all my other grades are good (math, orgo, chem, physics etc...) should it really matter that I have a P in bio 1 and 2. Problem is I took this class as a post-bacc as a non-matric after graduation. And, during registration you have a the choice of making the class E credit which means the grade shows, but dosen't change your GPA or P/F it. I P/F cause there is absolutely no way to change your GPA after gradauation at our school, so I decide to just take the credits.

Mainly because I was working like crazy. I got a new job after gradaution as a software developer and also did research in the evenings for my school. So I worked 60-80 hours a week that summer. So i decided to save myself head ache and P/F the class. Which now i think was a bad decesion, but worked out in my favor cause i got a B and C+. But this was again, cause i rarely worked hard in the class since I knew they grade won't change anything.

So I figure as long as I nail the mcats I should be fine right ?
hmm..maybe not I guess

Mmmm...that's not good. So you're saying as a non-matriculant you didn't have a choice of taking it for a regular grade and credit? Bio is rather central to medicine, so it's clearly something they look for mastery in. You probably want to call around to schools you're interested in and see if they'll even take P/F without upper level courses. The fact that you got a B and a C+ is exactly why P/F is looked at with skepticism.

 

[pancakeman86]

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[Lacheln]

Yea, that is what I was saying. And, I don't feel like I don't have a solid understanding of bio. I recieved the grade I did cause I knew I would get a P so no motivation to perform well. But, I have been studying for MCATs and with a solid biological science score (which I'm fairly confident I can get) would somewhat show that my understanding of bio is not below par. And my good grades other wise and having a difficult major should should show that I am not really a terrible student, but rather made a really dumb choice doing P/F hehe .

I would think so atleast, but than again I don't really know too much about the admission game.

That is exactly why schools won't like the P/F - I mean, if you were an admissions officer wouldn't it give you something to wonder about, MCAT or no?

Anyway, it may be a moot point, there are many schools that won't accept p/f credit for pre-reqs (especially without upper level courses to compensate). You need to research that.

 

[kac714]

Yea, that is what I was saying. And, I don't feel like I don't have a solid understanding of bio. I recieved the grade I did cause I knew I would get a P so no motivation to perform well. But, I have been studying for MCATs and with a solid biological science score (which I'm fairly confident I can get) would somewhat show that my understanding of bio is not below par. And my good grades other wise and having a difficult major should should show that I am not really a terrible student, but rather made a really dumb choice doing P/F hehe .

I would think so atleast, but than again I don't really know too much about the admission game.

I took bio1 p/f first semester my freshman year because i wasn't pre-med at the time. when i changed my mind my advisor told me to retake it for a grade because a lot of med schools wouldn't like not having a grade... but i'd ask the individual school. i guess you can always retake it.

 

[FlowLimited]

This is one of the easiest questions to answer on SDN.

Take the class for a grade. Pass/Fail doesn't help you. If you don't study and bomb every test, you fail regardless. If you ace the class, you have nothing to show for it. If you earn a C, well, that's basically what "pass" means without a grade to say otherwise.

 

[Lacheln]

This is one of the easiest questions to answer on SDN.

Take the class for a grade. Pass/Fail doesn't help you. If you don't study and bomb every test, you fail regardless. If you ace the class, you have nothing to show for it. If you earn a C, well, that's basically what "pass" means without a grade to say otherwise.

Exactly.

 

[pancakeman86]

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[scg]

So I was unable to undo the P/F.

Don't you mean you were able to?

You should make sure your "sob story" is really convincing because you don't want to sound like you're whining or making excuses. A lot of people are really busy/have to work and still manage to get an A. Also, you'll be really busy in medical school and they may question whether you'll have the same problem.

 

[scg]

My suggestion would be to keep the grades and to focus on the MCAT. Taking upper biol classes and doing well on them will help obviously.

I don't think this will hurt your application too much.

 

[Law2Doc]

So I was unable to undo the P/F. Some loophole in the system. My P/F request didn't go through cause wasn't technically allowed to do it since I requested late or something. Not Sure.

But anyway, so officially on my transcript I have a B in Bio 101 and C+ in Bio 102. Now I have three options.

1) I can request P/F again and they can probably do it since I requested before, but again Ill have a P/F in prereqs. Even though my gpa will be higher (3.74) I am opting not to do this from listening to all your guys comments.

2) Only P/F the c+. So Bio 101 grade will stay (B) and Bio 102 will be P. BMCP GPA will probably be in high 3.6 range. Again, I don't think this is a good idea, but it cleans up the blemish and keeps gpa relatively high so I just decided to ask what your guys opinion was.

3) Just keep the grades and try and do good on mcats. As of right now thats what I have been focusing on and figure if I can get a high bio section score I can somewhat redeem myself. BMCP GPA is about 3.60. This is the absolute lowest it willl because I am figuring right now none of my engineering course work will count as BMCP. If some of the A's in engineering do than it can go up a little bit, but not by much. Maybe 3.63 or something like that.

Also I was thinking about taking maybe higher level bio class in the spring, maybe biochem or something and get an A. And if I do get the interviews I can try and explain my "sob story" on why I got that grade.

Finally, I am trying to do the NIH fellowship thing. I know applications are due in octobor so right now I am trying to get all my recommendations ready for that. So let me know which route any of you would take in my position. And again thanks for your guys help and time.

P.S. Don't ask my how I can do this P/F business, my school is very weird when it comes to their grading policy when it comes to engineering. They tend to be more lenient when it come to P/F/W with engineers and students with relatively good track records. I don't know how the system works.

Dude, DON'T Re-request the P/F. Schools DON'T like P/F in the prereqs. If you are at a school where the whole freshman year is P/F then fine, the schools live with it. But in ANY other circumstance, a P/F in a prereq is a bad idea and many folks might suggest a retake. So throw that option out. It was a bad idea when you first posted, and it's a bad idea now. Schools have limited ability to compare students across the board (apart from the MCAT) and so having a uniform set of prereqs WITH GRADES allows schools to better compare folks. So give up on options 1 or 2. They don't really help you.

A 3.6 BCPM is adequate for admission to some med schools, although the cumulative GPA matters too (probably more, since the bulk of your courses aren't in BCPM). Assuming your cumulative GPA is comparable, I would study hard for the MCAT, take many practice tests, and not sit for it until you are consistently scoring in a desired range, and run with that. Make sure your ECs are up to snuff. It all counts.

Unless your school has mandatory P/F, in general the P/F option should never be used for prereqs. You only should use that for courses you absolutely don't need for medical school, but were curious about. So if you wanted to try your hand at an economics or foreign language or sociology course without risking your GPA, then sure, use the P/F. But bio? No way.

 

[pancakeman86]

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[pancakeman86]

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[pancakeman86]

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[Law2Doc]

One more question. I took a math and physic class at a community college in High School (long time ago). I think it was like summer 2002 or 03 (don't remember have to look it up), I was a sophmore in high school and wanted to move up a level in math and science so I took physics 1 and pre-calc at community college. The agreement with our high school was I just needed to get a B for them to count equivalent to like an AP/Hon high school class.

So i got a B and an A. Do I need to report these and are they calculated into your GPA. And do they care about these, I have gotten many more A's in higher level physics and maths when I attended college so I don't know if I need to report them. Thanks again

You need to report them and they count into the GPA. AMCAS is pretty specific that you need to report ANY college coursework, no matter when or where.