Path and research in residency

[whispers]

I've been thinking about what I want to do for residency. I've been talking with some folks like me who really just want to be in the lab doing research. We talked about how with path you can actually do research during residency. Any future pathologists out there interested in research?
Any thoughts appreciated

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[b&ierstiefel]

I've been thinking about what I want to do for residency. I've been talking with some folks like me who really just want to be in the lab doing research. We talked about how with path you can actually do research during residency. Any future pathologists out there interested in research?
Any thoughts appreciated

Internal Medicine and Pathology are traditionally considered two fields that is considered to be very conducive for research. Pathology can offer a tad bit more time flexibility to do research during residency. Nonetheless, due to clinical demands placed on the resident, especially during anatomic pathology months (especially surgical pathology), there is often little time for research. During residency, the pathology resident can venture into smaller research projects such as immunohistochemistry-based projects on various classes of tumor specimens. The pathology resident has relative ease in doing this due to assistance from techs who can run these IHC experiments through an auto-stainer and also due to the fact that pathologists have direct access to tissue banks through tissue procurement services. These projects can be done within a month or few months (for example, depending how long it takes to workup certain commercial antibodies). Now, if you're working on a more substantial project such as a very basic sciency project that rigorously probes into mechanistic aspects of disease, you serve yourself better by doing a postdoc after a residency.

That's my 2 cents. This is coming from a person very much like yourself. You'll hear this "80%/20%" ratio being thrown around by many pathologists. I think this is such an arbitrary numerical designation. Let's try 95%/5% or 100%/0%!

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Adding to the post above (tried editing previous post but SDN is screwed up now).

Pathology gives you several options as to how you can live out your career as a researcher predominantly, A few examples below:

1) Subspecialty surgical pathologist/researcher - here you probably sign out some cases in a specific organ system (breast, gyn, etc.) like one week per month or few months (? -- depends on how you negotiate your academic contract). Then you spend most of the time in a lab. I have been told that even this is pretty difficult since there will be some followup studies to be done on some of the cases you sign out. Hence, when you're not signing out, you can't totally ignore your clinical duties and devote 100% of your time on science. Also, the difficulty with this is that you won't be signing out often so your peers will see you as a pathologist with rusty skills and clinicians may often second guess your diagnoses since they know you only do this part time.

2) Autopsy attending/researcher - I have had a few interviewers tell me that this is the way to go. Autopsies are rather easy to sign out and sometimes pathology attendings only sign out up to 1-2 autopsies per month. Here, clinical duties are even more minimal.

3) Clinical pathology/researcher - Some people do CP only or do AP/CP training and end up managing clinical labs and a research lab at the same time. Again, this option offers big time flexibility in terms of time management.

 

[LADoc00]

Ive posed this question to MDPhDs time and time again: Why the hell do you want to do research? The pay is crap, the work conditions horrid and the field is dominated by fresh off the boat types, does that sound appealing in some way? Yeah, like making soccer balls in a Mexican sweatshop!

So what if you make a big discovery, which odds are you wont even come close (youll likely just spend your life pissing away taxpayer dollars and making your life miserable), some MBA will capitalize on it and make a fortune, leaving you holding your member in your hand with a red face.

In conclusion, yes someone should do research, just like someone has to pick up garbage and clear landmines, but that doesnt have to be you.

Think on that.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Ive posed this question to MDPhDs time and time again: Why the hell do you want to do research? The pay is crap, the work conditions horrid and the field is dominated by fresh off the boat types, does that sound appealing in some way? Yeah, like making soccer balls in a Mexican sweatshop!

So what if you make a big discovery, which odds are you wont even come close (youll likely just spend your life pissing away taxpayer dollars and making your life miserable), some MBA will capitalize on it and make a fortune, leaving you holding your member in your hand with a red face.

In conclusion, yes someone should do research, just like someone has to pick up garbage and clear landmines, but that doesnt have to be you.

Think on that.

I like discovering ****. I realize that it pays sh*tty and with all the stress, it is an overall sh*tty deal. However, the whole discovering **** and relative intellectual autonomy really appeals to me.

Regardless, right now is an iffy time to go into research. Why? THEY TOOK ERR JOBS!

 

[LADoc00]

I like discovering ****. I realize that it pays sh*tty and with all the stress, it is an overall sh*tty deal. However, the whole discovering **** and relative intellectual autonomy really appeals to me.

Regardless, right now is an iffy time to go into research. Why? THEY TOOK ERR JOBS!

Dude, I like playing World of Warcraft. I play a rogue. I like getting behind some unsuspecting noob and backstabbing em when I come out of stealth like some Bird of Prey from an old Star Trek episode. But that doesnt mean Im gonna make my career playing computer games. Sure I love it and I love watching old episodes of the A-team too. We all have stuff we love. If you love research then do it part time in your garage or some crap. Better yet put those inquisitive science skills to use and learn auto repair or woodworking or a thousand other more useful things. Regardless of what people in academics say knocking out some gene to create gay Drosophilia and worms with glowing wieners is not going to bring about Utopian society.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Dude, I like playing World of Warcraft. I play a rogue. I like getting behind some unsuspecting noob and backstabbing em when I come out of stealth like some Bird of Prey from an old Star Trek episode. But that doesnt mean Im gonna make my career playing computer games. Sure I love it and I love watching old episodes of the A-team too. We all have stuff we love. If you love research then do it part time in your garage or some crap. Better yet put those inquisitive science skills to use and learn auto repair or woodworking or a thousand other more useful things. Regardless of what people in academics say knocking out some gene to create gay Drosophilia and worms with glowing wieners is not going to bring about Utopian society.

OMFG, I just shat myself. I'm gonna have to go clean up now.

 

[PathOne]

Ive posed this question to MDPhDs time and time again: Why the hell do you want to do research? The pay is crap, the work conditions horrid and the field is dominated by fresh off the boat types, does that sound appealing in some way? Yeah, like making soccer balls in a Mexican sweatshop!

So what if you make a big discovery, which odds are you wont even come close (youll likely just spend your life pissing away taxpayer dollars and making your life miserable), some MBA will capitalize on it and make a fortune, leaving you holding your member in your hand with a red face.

In conclusion, yes someone should do research, just like someone has to pick up garbage and clear landmines, but that doesnt have to be you.

Think on that.

Hey, LADoc00. If you ever grow tired of path. Sorry, if you grow terminally tired of path, try out as a stand-up. Comedian, that is. Seriously, laughed so hard when I read your stuff. Doing a nasty twist on it, but not entirely untrue.

from here. But gotta go back to my dermpath research now.

 

[Logos']

..

 

[LADoc00]

I always enjoy some good LADoc00 cynicism on these boards but to put things in perspective for the original poster perhaps, LADoc00, you could tell us what you think the salary range is for these destitute academics?

Strippers on crappy Saturday afternoon near the Los Angeles airport probably make more 2x what a academic makes doing pure research for a whole month. Lesson: If a 19-year old stripper from Western Kentucky with a 6th grade education can kick your a$$, you suck, plan and simple.

Ive got a FB(if you have to ask what that is, dont bother) who is an academic at big name institution. She doesnt make crap. I pay for everything when we go out. If you want to be a mooch paying back loved ones solely with sexual favors, then research is for joo!

Research for "teh win!"
-Napolean Dynamite

 

[Logos']

...

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Dude, rock on Logos'.

I'll leave the exotic dancing up to you two though.

 

[xanthines]

I'm not sure why you think the pay is crap. Are you livin la vida loca, or something?

As far as work conditions go, I don't know of any worthwhile careers that are more cushy than lab research. We talk like school girls all the time, drink beer in the lab at least a couple times a month (paid for by the PI's!), and have very very flexible schedules.

I'm just a crappy lab tech and I'd stay one if the pay was better. So that's why I'm now on my way to being a scientician/path prof.

I do agree with you about the FOBs, though. They are everywhere where I work.

-X

The pay is crap, the work conditions horrid and the field is dominated by fresh off the boat types, does that sound appealing in some way?

 

[b&ierstiefel]

I do agree with you about the FOBs, though. They are everywhere where I work.

-X

You experience this too? One of my labmates refers to the eating area as "Cafe Beijing" as the congregation everyday around noon has conversations exclusively in Chinese. He said this right in front of them too. I had to interject and tell him, "Dude dude that is not cool, you gonna get us into trouble again."

 

[xanthines]

My labmate calls it an "invasion by the Red Army."

-X

You experience this too? One of my labmates refers to the eating area as "Cafe Beijing" as the congregation everyday around noon has conversations exclusively in Chinese. He said this right in front of them too. I had to interject and tell him, "Dude dude that is not cool, you gonna get us into trouble again."

 

[b&ierstiefel]

My labmate calls it an "invasion by the Red Army."

-X

oh dear god.

my peeps ain't gonna like the sound of that.

 

[Gut Shot]

knocking out some gene to create gay Drosophilia and worms with glowing wieners

When I read this I immediately recalled the following:

Mendizabal MV, Naftalin RJ. Exposure of rat colonic mucosa to human semen in vivo induces mucosal cytolysis, abolishes fluid absorption and raises paracellular permeability. Clin Sci (Lond). 1992 82(3):277-82.

 

[stormjen]

When I read this I immediately recalled the following:

Mendizabal MV, Naftalin RJ. Exposure of rat colonic mucosa to human semen in vivo induces mucosal cytolysis, abolishes fluid absorption and raises paracellular permeability. Clin Sci (Lond). 1992 82(3):277-82.

That's so disgusting, I'm not even going to ask.

 

[LADoc00]

When I read this I immediately recalled the following:

Mendizabal MV, Naftalin RJ. Exposure of rat colonic mucosa to human semen in vivo induces mucosal cytolysis, abolishes fluid absorption and raises paracellular permeability. Clin Sci (Lond). 1992 82(3):277-82.

I can only imagine how many poor animals have been sodomized in the name of basic science research!!

 

[b&ierstiefel]

When I read this I immediately recalled the following:

Mendizabal MV, Naftalin RJ. Exposure of rat colonic mucosa to human semen in vivo induces mucosal cytolysis, abolishes fluid absorption and raises paracellular permeability. Clin Sci (Lond). 1992 82(3):277-82.

Hmm...published in a british journal. I wonder if the researchers are british...they love doing studies with sperm.

 

[LADoc00]

Hmm...published in a british journal. I wonder if the researchers are british...they love doing studies with sperm.

Also in from London...
Woman jailed for ripping off lover's testicle

2 hours, 45 minutes ago
LONDON (Reuters) - A woman has been sentenced to two and a half years in jail for ripping off her ex-lover's testicle with her bare hands during a drunken brawl after he refused her sex.
Amanda Monti, 24, flew into a rage in May last year after Geoffrey Jones, 37, who had ended their long-term relationship, rejected her advances.
She grabbed him by the genitals, tearing off his left testicle, then hid it in her mouth before a friend of Jones handed it back to him saying "that's yours".
Monti, of Birkenhead, near Liverpool, pleaded guilty to unlawful wounding at an earlier hearing.
Her lawyer said on Thursday her client had little memory of the night



HOLY CRAP, what the hell is this world coming to I ask.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Also in from London...
Woman jailed for ripping off lover's testicle

2 hours, 45 minutes ago
LONDON (Reuters) - A woman has been sentenced to two and a half years in jail for ripping off her ex-lover's testicle with her bare hands during a drunken brawl after he refused her sex.
Amanda Monti, 24, flew into a rage in May last year after Geoffrey Jones, 37, who had ended their long-term relationship, rejected her advances.
She grabbed him by the genitals, tearing off his left testicle, then hid it in her mouth before a friend of Jones handed it back to him saying "that's yours".
Monti, of Birkenhead, near Liverpool, pleaded guilty to unlawful wounding at an earlier hearing.
Her lawyer said on Thursday her client had little memory of the night



HOLY CRAP, what the hell is this world coming to I ask.

my groin is having spasms while reading this. i so did not need to see this

 

[deschutes]

HOLY CRAP, what the hell is this world coming to I ask.

Beware your FB!

 

[Gut Shot]

Rugby fan cut off his own testicles
8 February 2005

A Welsh rugby fan cut off his own testicles after his team beat England, police confirmed today. The man was rushed to hospital after the incident at Leigh Social Club in Caerphilly, South Wales. A Gwent Police spokeswoman said: "We received a call from the ambulance service at approximately 9pm on the 5th to inform us of a situation at the Leigh Social Club in which a man had indeed severed his own testicles." She said the man was taken to Heath Hospital but could not confirm his condition.

It was reported that the man told his friends: "If Wales win I'll cut my own balls off." After the 11-9 victory in the Six Nations clash, the man is reported to have gone outside and severed his testicles before bringing them back into the club to show fellow drinkers. A local was reported as saying that the man was on medication and should not have been drinking.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

PONTIAC, Michigan -- A Taiwanese engineering student has been convicted in the U.S. for castrating men for their sexual pleasure.

Shuo-Shan Wang, 29, told authorities he had taken the knife to more than 50 men, a U.S. court heard.

Wang, in the U.S. on a student visa, advertised his unusual services on a Web site of an international network of men whose fetish was to have their testicles removed, the court heard.

A jury found Wang guilty of practicing medicine without a license and dispensing prescription medicine without a license. He faces up to four years in jail and will be sentenced later this month.

(huh huh...that guy's name is Wang...huh huh)

 

[LADoc00]

Beware your FB!

She's getting tied up from now on, Im too paranoid. This rash of nut attacks could spell doom for our way of life!

TRUST NO ONE.

-For the Horde.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

i've missed something.

what does FB mean?

 

[yaah]

You have now been informed.

 

[scott]

Ive posed this question to MDPhDs time and time again: Why the hell do you want to do research? The pay is crap, the work conditions horrid and the field is dominated by fresh off the boat types, does that sound appealing in some way? Yeah, like making soccer balls in a Mexican sweatshop!

Hi all,

I haven't looked at this forum in quite a while, but I was disappointed to read the racist and xenophobic string of comments in this thread beginning with the one quoted above.

Do you think it's acceptable to use "Fresh off the boat" or FOB as a sort of fun way of expressing intolerance and dislike of recent immigrants or people from backgrounds different from your own?

I think you should be ashamed of yourselves, particularly since you've all had the privilege of having a decent education. Getting to know anyone, regardless of their background, takes some effort. I've often learned more, and had more interesting conversations, with people from different backgrounds from my own. The thing to be ashamed of is not, of course, using "FOB" or some other code-phrase, but thinking of a group of people in a generic negative way.

On a separate topic, LADoc00's comments here and elsewhere suggest he hasn't really seen good research labs, the lifestyle of successful PIs, or the financial opportunities that come along with a successful research career.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Nobody answered my question. What is FB again?

 

[scott]

Nobody answered my question. What is FB again?

I think it must be "f**k buddy"

 

[b&ierstiefel]

I think it must be "f**k buddy"

thanks scott!

 

[yaah]

Nobody answered my question. What is FB again?

I answered your question. It is a friend with benefits, although the letters stand for different things.

And scott makes some reasonable points. It is always preferable to be respectful to others and foster a dialogue of inclusiveness and respect as opposed to condescension and disrespect. It is difficult to attain a good position in life if you perform in the latter way. However, everyone has a different brand of humor which we may not all agree with. Here on this forum, there are many people who enjoy a good ribbing, humor, and jokes, be they tasteless or not. I don't think any of us would tolerate it as much if it was truly malicious.

I don't think anyone here takes their career or the gifts that they have for granted. Just because you have success in life does not mean you have to apologize for the rest of your life or justify it to others. I think anyone who has had or will have any success in medicine has done so by being able to deal with and appreciate the contributions of people from all walks of life. Using stereotypes and generalizations does not help anyone.

That being said, humor and wit does not have to include derogatory terms and slurs. Unless they are directed against other fields of medicine, lawyers, or New Yorkers.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Well stated yaah. That was beautiful man!

 

[jeff2005]

THEY TOOK ERR JOBS!

Andy, I like it when your posts make me feel that watching Comedy Central is time well spent.

 

[scott]

I don't think anyone here takes their career or the gifts that they have for granted. Just because you have success in life does not mean you have to apologize for the rest of your life or justify it to others.

I appreciate your comments, yaah. At the same time, it's interesting to see how stereotypes percolate through even generally well-meaning people's understandings of things.

For example, in the paragraph quoted above, I think you were responding to my comment that posters of "FOB" remarks on this board should be ashamed, given that they've had a decent education. What I meant was that people who have had an education should know better, and shouldn't believe in generic negative descriptions of whole groups of people. I didn't mean that people in the U.S. get a good education, and therefore should be more compassionate towards lowly immigrants who didn't have a chance to have any. (For what it's worth, the basic education that most of the U.S. population gets is arguably worse than that of people in much of Europe, Australia, and the high-income groups in other countries who tend to be able to immigrate most easily.)

I don't mean to rant at length, but I thought it was worth sharing my reactions to the cavalier "FOB" comments. I don't think the list would have tolerated sentences like "I couldn't stand Dermatology because of all the fags in that field," or "Obstetrics? Whew-boy! No thanks! A bit too bitch-heavy for me," or "Can you believe it? I had to operate with a Black today."

Maybe that is ranting at length.

 

[jeff2005]

I think LADOC is a bad influence, and Yaah shouldn't let you guys play with him anymore.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Andy, I like it when you're posts make me feel that watching Comedy Central is time well spent.

Timmah! Livin' a lie! Timmah!

 

[deschutes]

Different things offend different people differently.

As a not-so-fresh-off-the-plane, maybe I can comment.

This is a text-based medium, after all. And what is whispered in real life can sometimes come across as a shout on the Internet.

Whatever the prejudice or bias, it's best to have it out in the open - provided it is not too disruptive of general going-ons. I suspect that is why, as a snapshot in time, you are seeing general tolerance of what in a different context might be taken to be terribly terribly offensive. While well-meaning, it would be equally disruptive to have someone pointing out every single non-politically-correct remark that is posted on an Internet forum.

Posters are free to make up their own minds about what they read here, and so they should.

 

[jeff2005]

Different things offend different people differently.

As a not-so-fresh-off-the-plane, maybe I can comment.

This is a text-based medium, after all. And what is whispered in real life can sometimes come across as a shout on the Internet.

Whatever the prejudice or bias, it's best to have it out in the open - provided it is not too disruptive of general going-ons. I suspect that is why, as a snapshot in time, you are seeing general tolerance of what in a different context might be taken to be terribly terribly offensive. While well-meaning, it would be equally disruptive to have someone pointing out every single non-politically-correct remark that is posted on an Internet forum.

Posters are free to make up their own minds about what they read here, and so they should.

I disagree. I think people should speak-up if, in their opinion, something posted crosses the line. I recently read an editorial about horrible antisemetic comments being posted non-chalantly on craigslist, with not one person calling fowl. The posters said things that made me sick. While I do agree that this thread is not particularly offensive, I admire scott for speaking his mind. And, as you all know, I'm not a big fan of you-know-who.

 

[deschutes]

If I am reading your disagreement right:

My point was not that people should not speak up about what offends them - I was simply saying that to preserve general day-to-day function of the forum, it tends to be that people decide to ignore repetitive inflammatory comments from the same poster.

The nature of things is that there will be more inflammatory comments than there are responses.

Silence does not necessarily mean agreement and acceptance. We may simply be giving a person enough rope to hang themselves with.

You don't even have to agree with this, so feel free to call foul on me!

 

[jeff2005]

I reread your post and I get what you're saying. Sorry, I should have read it more carefully. I do think, however, that silence does imply acceptance. As long as one person, such as scott, pipes up every once in a while things are cool.

 

[scott]

Whatever the prejudice or bias, it's best to have it out in the open - provided it is not too disruptive of general going-ons. I suspect that is why, as a snapshot in time, you are seeing general tolerance of what in a different context might be taken to be terribly terribly offensive. While well-meaning, it would be equally disruptive to have someone pointing out every single non-politically-correct remark that is posted on an Internet forum.

I agree with you, deschutes, that it is better for prejudice to be out in the open-- but if someone feels comfortable using concepts or words in a public forum, then they should be ready to defend them, and shouldn't feel put-upon if they are attacked over things that they would not really want to defend.

We can disagree, discuss, and share ideas on other topics here. Surely we can do so with regard to racism and bigotry.

But while we're talking about it, I really don't see any reason why we should tolerate obvious bigotry on this list. There are really very few examples, and I think that they should be slapped down by pointing them out, as part of the ground rules of a civilized community. I don't think we should tolerate bias within ourselves, once we recognize it, or in our friends or family, or in the larger community, if we can do anything to prevent it.

I don't know if anyone shares my feeling that the term "politically correct" is a horrible invention that carries within it the ideas that: 1. really, it's ok to have prejudices and bigoted views, and 2. it is a huge inconvenience to have to take the feelings and views of other groups into consideration when choosing what name to call them. Even using the term "politically correct" in reference to some word carries an undercurrent of thought along the lines of "An FOB is still an FOB, whatever the f**k they decide to call themselves," I think.

Ranto, Rante, Rantarum

 

[b&ierstiefel]

if someone feels comfortable using concepts or words in a public forum, then they should be ready to defend them, and shouldn't feel put-upon if they are attacked over things that they would not really want to defend.

I agree with you scott regarding this point. And this is why, regardless of how reckless my posts are to begin with, I don't bring up certain opinions of mine.

Anyways, if I said anything on this thread that offended or angered you, I apologize preemptively.

 

[jeff2005]

And this is why, regardless of how reckless my posts are to begin with, I don't bring up certain opinions of mine.

Hmmm. I wonder what twisted perversions Andy is hiding from us? The research continues...

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Hmmm. I wonder what twisted perversions Andy is hiding from us? The research continues...

The list of your questions about Andy continues to grow...

 

[yaah]

Agreed. I don't think anyone wants to tolerate bigotry. But I am also not one for censorship. I have become more thick skinned in my old age. I am not about to censor anyone's opinions or posts just because I don't agree with them. The only thing that really is taboo here is being directly offensive to other posters. Thus, while blanket stereotypical statements may be obnoxious, they don't tend to fall under this category. This is why we talk about things that aren't even related to pathology - because we enjoy talking with each other, etc. The casual poster may wonder what on earth is going on here, and wonder why we don't stick to the topic. But there is enough room for casual banter and serious discussion.

The discussion is a good one.

As I have said before, anyone who is truly offended by anything on the boards is encouraged to click the little icon at the left of every post - the warning sign - which reports the post and you can give a reason (unless you want to post yourself too). The worst thing that can happen is that someone reads things on the boards, decides it is an unfriendly place, and decides to leave.

But racism and bigotry are really not topics we need to discuss here.

 

[scott]

Agreed. I don't think anyone wants to tolerate bigotry. But I am also not one for censorship.
...
But racism and bigotry are really not topics we need to discuss here.

Well, not to beat this to death (further), but my hope is that this was a timely discussion and not one that will give rise to prolonged repetitive posts.

At the same time, your last sentence seems to suggest, yaah, that you would prefer to censor discussions of racism and bigotry, but not censor bigoted comments. Why not let posters use either, at their own peril?

It is the general good humor, creativity and good nature of this board that made the original remarks I targeted stand out so much.

 

[yaah]

No, it is a timely discussion. I am not objecting.

In terms of your questions - bigoted comments speak for themselves. They really don't need to be censored, because it's pretty obvious that they aren't coming from an intelligent place. Censoring a bigoted comment often gives the person what they are looking for - attention - and gives them a sense of satisfaction. Discussions of it, on the other hand, as we see on other forums, often degenerate into contests of trying to pick apart other arguments and become glorified pissing contests. This current topic is far from that level, so don't get me wrong. I am just suggesting that the pathology forum on SDN is not the best place to have a real honest discussion about racism, bigotry, and the impact of it on society. When it relates to a topic or thread at hand, of course it is grounds for discussion, and I don't mind you bringing it up at all. I encourage anyone to post about whatever they feel like, just so long as it isn't about salary issues 35 times a day.

I really haven't had to close many threads (if any) on this forum, nor do I anticipate having to, because people tend to censor themselves or take matters into their own hands. It's fairly self moderating.

 

[xanthines]

Too late!

I wouldn't take anything strangers on the web say too seriously. If we throw around terms that are offensive to people, I apologize. Really, I do. It's not my intent to offend.

-X

Well, not to beat this to death (further),