Pathology job situation in LA area after 4 years later

[glorybrian]

This is unpredictable topic but let me explain my situation.
I am applying residency matching this year.
I had interviews both pathology and primary care (IM & FM).
I am IMG and graduated 18 years ago .
I did internship + pathology residency and worked as pathologist for 8 years in my home country. I did research for 2 years in US.

Now I have to decide my ranking. Since I am old graduate IMG, I would like to match this year to finish residency in US. When I am thinking of ranking, I have some questions about job situation in pathology. I would appreciate for your comment for following issues.

1. What is pathology job situation in Los Angeles area? (no preference among lab, academic or private) I want to have a job after residency in LA area due to my husband job.

2. What is usual retirement age for pathologist?

3. Does my previous experience give any positive effect for job searching?

If you give me any comment, it will help me building my gut feeling .

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[dermoid cyst]

i really and sincerely hope you accomplish all your career goals. i admire your determination to want to go through residency at this point in your life.

having said that, i cannot help but make this comment - i really am not a mean person but poor written, and conversational english for that matter, is one of my pet peeves. i love path but it frustrates me that our specialty is swamped with people who are very poor in english. why is this??? i mean, yes, we do not interact with patients directly but we, as pathologists, need to communicate with physicians and we do need to come up with official reports that become permanent records (that ought to be written up well, ie no grammatical errors, etc).

i have nothing against FMGs at all but i really do feel that path programs should get only the FMGs who have a very good command of the english language. i have worked with several faculty and residents who are FMGs and yes they are good diagnosticians, but my oh my, it is so painful to talk to them and reading their reports is always a chore - thus, it is so hard to benefit/learn from interacting with them. the sad thing is that academic path is filled with such people, i guess because the private practice groups are very selective when hiring people. because of this, residents in training suffer... ugh!!!

so sorry to vent my frustration out... this was largely trigerred by an attending i worked with last week - the experience was oh so painful!

 

[LADoc00]

This is unpredictable topic but let me explain my situation.
I am applying residency matching this year.
I had interviews both pathology and primary care (IM & FM).
I am IMG and graduated 18 years ago .
I did internship + pathology residency and worked as pathologist for 8 years in my home country. I did research for 2 years in US.

Now I have to decide my ranking. Since I am old graduate IMG, I would like to match this year to finish residency in US. When I am thinking of ranking, I have some questions about job situation in pathology. I would appreciate for your comment for following issues.

1. What is pathology job situation in Los Angeles area? (no preference among lab, academic or private) I want to have a job after residency in LA area due to my husband job.

2. What is usual retirement age for pathologist?

3. Does my previous experience give any positive effect for job searching?

If you give me any comment, it will help me building my gut feeling .

The pathology job situation in LA is beyond the pale. Aside from a IED killing most of the LA path society off, you might as well put your head between your legs and kiss your butt off. Realize the absurd number of:
people who want to live in LA, everyone, everyone and their DAMN MOMS TOO.
Massive managed care penetration of Kaiser, you will be a Kaiser biotch in LA, end of story.
The horrendous number of residents churned out down there is crazy, just crazy. UCLA, UCI, USC AND Loma Linda!!! Then the other crew from UCSF/Stanford and Davis trying to break in b/c their own markets are totally impacted. Madness I say.
I would do IM if you HAVE to stay in LA, you will be used/abused in that path scene, it is pure sharks.

When I went to LA path society meeting downtown, I used to have watch my back! There are resident/fellows who would shank me for just half of what I was making. They even have a yearly resident conference where they present cases and then are paraded around on a stage as the PD hope to auction em off to groups who might hire em. Im serious, it was cRaZy, I couldnt stop laughing at these poo' bastards. They might as well just had a big wet t-shirt contest and be honest about it

Goodluck. Play the lottery.

 

[quant]

i really and sincerely hope you accomplish all your career goals. i admire your determination to want to go through residency at this point in your life.

having said that, i cannot help but make this comment - i really am not a mean person but poor written, and conversational english for that matter, is one of my pet peeves. i love path but it frustrates me that our specialty is swamped with people who are very poor in english. why is this??? i mean, yes, we do not interact with patients directly but we, as pathologists, need to communicate with physicians and we do need to come up with official reports that become permanent records (that ought to be written up well, ie no grammatical errors, etc).

i have nothing against FMGs at all but i really do feel that path programs should get only the FMGs who have a very good command of the english language. i have worked with several faculty and residents who are FMGs and yes they are good diagnosticians, but my oh my, it is so painful to talk to them and reading their reports is always a chore - thus, it is so hard to benefit/learn from interacting with them. the sad thing is that academic path is filled with such people, i guess because the private practice groups are very selective when hiring people. because of this, residents in training suffer... ugh!!!

so sorry to vent my frustration out... this was largely trigerred by an attending i worked with last week - the experience was oh so painful!

As many can attest here on this forum, I am a nice person too.

This was largely triggered by a post I saw on SDN which was guilty of painting with a broad brush.....

 

[beary]

As many can attest here on this forum, I am a nice person too.

This was largely triggered by a post I saw on SDN which was guilty of painting with a broad brush.....

Awesome response quant.

That was a great way to get a point across in a very controlled and mature way.

 

[quant]

Awesome response quant.

That was a great way to get a point across in a very controlled and mature way.

I really dont know Beary. I feel sad for having to respond to such pettiness....

 

[beary]

I really dont know Beary. I feel sad for having to respond to such pettiness....

You're good man.

 

[tsj]

The pathology job situation in LA is beyond the pale. Aside from a IED killing most of the LA path society off, you might as well put your head between your legs and kiss your butt off. Realize the absurd number of:
people who want to live in LA, everyone, everyone and their DAMN MOMS TOO.
Massive managed care penetration of Kaiser, you will be a Kaiser biotch in LA, end of story.
The horrendous number of residents churned out down there is crazy, just crazy. UCLA, UCI, USC AND Loma Linda!!! Then the other crew from UCSF/Stanford and Davis trying to break in b/c their own markets are totally impacted. Madness I say.
I would do IM if you HAVE to stay in LA, you will be used/abused in that path scene, it is pure sharks.

When I went to LA path society meeting downtown, I used to have watch my back! There are resident/fellows who would shank me for just half of what I was making. They even have a yearly resident conference where they present cases and then are paraded around on a stage as the PD hope to auction em off to groups who might hire em. Im serious, it was cRaZy, I couldnt stop laughing at these poo' bastards. They might as well just had a big wet t-shirt contest and be honest about it

Goodluck. Play the lottery.

Another LADOC00 instant classic.

 

[miko2005]

The pathology job situation in LA is beyond the pale. Aside from a IED killing most of the LA path society off, you might as well put your head between your legs and kiss your butt off. Realize the absurd number of:
people who want to live in LA, everyone, everyone and their DAMN MOMS TOO.
Massive managed care penetration of Kaiser, you will be a Kaiser biotch in LA, end of story.
The horrendous number of residents churned out down there is crazy, just crazy. UCLA, UCI, USC AND Loma Linda!!! Then the other crew from UCSF/Stanford and Davis trying to break in b/c their own markets are totally impacted. Madness I say.
I would do IM if you HAVE to stay in LA, you will be used/abused in that path scene, it is pure sharks.

When I went to LA path society meeting downtown, I used to have watch my back! There are resident/fellows who would shank me for just half of what I was making. They even have a yearly resident conference where they present cases and then are paraded around on a stage as the PD hope to auction em off to groups who might hire em. Im serious, it was cRaZy, I couldnt stop laughing at these poo' bastards. They might as well just had a big wet t-shirt contest and be honest about it

Goodluck. Play the lottery.

LADoc,

Is there lack of well paid pathology jobs in LA or just lack of any pathology jobs? It does sound disturbing. Is this only true for the LA area or any large cities?? And I know you are against academics, but is there plenty of positions in academics??

Thanks.

 

[pathdoc68]

LADoc,

Is there lack of well paid pathology jobs in LA or just lack of any pathology jobs? It does sound disturbing. Is this only true for the LA area or any large cities?? And I know you are against academics, but is there plenty of positions in academics??

Thanks.

The path job market is nearly always tough, there are way too many programs pumping out way too many pathologists. When demand for residency slots dip, program directors frantically fill spots, understandably with IMG's. (Those cases aren't going to gross themselves)
Will the great mass retirement ever materialize? I'm not so sure about that. This weeks (1/23/06) AMA American Medical News has an article about a path faculty, Jane Dry, MD. who is being laid off form Tulane and having a tough time with the job search. The only way for our profession to survive is to close programs and adjust supply to the actual demand in the market, this stratagey will of couse also help to ensure that pathologists continue to be compensated fairly, instead of all of us trying to undercut the pathologist in the next town over.
Think CA is tight, try relocating from the midwest to the mid-atlantic states with tons of residents from MA, NY, PA, Hopkins, Duke, Emory all chasing those elusive partnership track positions.

 

[LADoc00]

The path job market is nearly always tough, there are way too many programs pumping out way too many pathologists. When demand for residency slots dip, program directors frantically fill spots, understandably with IMG's. (Those cases aren't going to gross themselves)
Will the great mass retirement ever materialize? I'm not so sure about that. This weeks (1/23/06) AMA American Medical News has an article about a path faculty, Jane Dry, MD. who is being laid off form Tulane and having a tough time with the job search. The only way for our profession to survive is to close programs and adjust supply to the actual demand in the market, this stratagey will of couse also help to ensure that pathologists continue to be compensated fairly, instead of all of us trying to undercut the pathologist in the next town over.
Think CA is tight, try relocating from the midwest to the mid-atlantic states with tons of residents from MA, NY, PA, Hopkins, Duke, Emory all chasing those elusive partnership track positions.

Yep. The supply is far outstripping demand. The problem you face in any big city is there is massive subset of the medical world who HAVE to live there and thus will take any job/contract/terms put in front of their face, they are:
1.) IMGs that want to stay in near big cities b/c they only can make friends with other people from their own country or they live with freakin grandparents who dont speak english. How they can enjoy marriage/life with grandma listening to you bang your wife has always baffled me.
2.) Women married to men who have jobs in big cities and cant relocate. They often dont have much ambition in terms of salary and for managed care are a wet dream come true, there are Kaiser groups of 8-10 pathologists composed of pure women!
3.) Gays who want to stay near gay friendly areas. Dunno, if I was a gay guy and my choice was 250K more a year or living in West Hollywood next to Trunks, my choice would be easy.
4.) Single women on the manhunt. Often terrified of moving to rural/suburb areas and marrying...God forbid!...someone who isnt rich/high status.
5.) Some URMs, although URMs in pathology are SUPER RARE, not sure why. (This is a very minor component, if at all)

Those factors along with a general oversupply create a Perfect Storm of caca that makes it impossible to find reasonable employment, I would say these are the worst path markets in the US:
1.) Boston - far and away the worst
2.) NYC - also a complete waste of time to even send a resume anywhere within commute range of Manhattan
3.) SF - people dont realize this city is small! And is the fastest shrinking city in the US.
4.) LA
5.) San Diego
6.) San Jose/Silicon Valley
7.) Baltimore
8.) Chicago
9.) Miami
+ Probably lots of New England places Im not familiar with, overall the Northeast US is a complete waste of time.

 

[pathdawg]

Yep. The supply is far outstripping demand. The problem you face in any big city is there is massive subset of the medical world who HAVE to live there and thus will take any job/contract/terms put in front of their face, they are:
1.) IMGs that want to stay in near big cities b/c they only can make friends with other people from their own country or they live with freakin grandparents who dont speak english. How they can enjoy marriage/life with grandama listening to you bang your wife has always baffled me.
2.) Women married to men who have jobs in big cities and cant relocate. They often dont have much ambition in terms of salary and for managed care are a wet dream come true, there are Kaiser groups of 8-10 pathologists composed of pure women!
3.) Gays who want to stay near gay friendly areas. Dunno, I was a gay guy and my choice was 250K more a year or living in West Hollywood next to Trunks, my choice would be easy.
4.) Single women on the manhunt. Often terrified of moving to rural/suburb areas and marrying...God forbid!...someone who isnt rich/high status.
5.) Some URMs, although URMs in pathology are SUPER RARE, not sure why. (This is a very minor component, if at all)

Those factors along with a general oversupply create a Perfect Storm of caca that makes it impossible to find reasonable employment, I would say these are the worst path markets in the US:
1.) Boston - far and away the worst
2.) NYC - also a complete waste of time to even send a resume anywhere within commute range of Manhattan
3.) SF - people dont realize this city is small! And is the fastest shrinking city in the US.
4.) LA
5.) San Diego
6.) San Jose/Silicon Valley
7.) Baltimore
8.) Chicago
9.) Miami
+ Probably lots of New England places Im not familiar with, overall the Northeast US is a complete waste of time.

Talk about an instant classic. Great stuff. I am in Philly and I can attest that the market in the Northeast part of the country isn't great. There are actually many many reasons why someone would want to reside in a large metropolitan area, aside from the five you (adeptly) listed. Many simply don't want to sell their souls and live in a tame, boring, and unfullfilling suburban/subrural life. Its not for everyone. But its true, there is a sacrifice for living in a thriving city, namely the lack of many job opportunities and the far lower salary. No question about it. Its all about choices, people. Live in a monsterous McMansion a 2-3 hour drive from civilization where what passes as entertainment is an eight year old's soccer game, or live in a fun interesting city where you'll make a fraction of what your suburban/subrural friends make. Not an easy choice.

 

[pathdawg]

Hey LA,

Whatinthehell is a URM?

Thanks.

 

[pathdoc68]

Hey LA,

Whatinthehell is a URM?

Thanks.

Under-represented minority.

 

[pathdawg]

i really and sincerely hope you accomplish all your career goals. i admire your determination to want to go through residency at this point in your life.

having said that, i cannot help but make this comment - i really am not a mean person but poor written, and conversational english for that matter, is one of my pet peeves. i love path but it frustrates me that our specialty is swamped with people who are very poor in english. why is this??? i mean, yes, we do not interact with patients directly but we, as pathologists, need to communicate with physicians and we do need to come up with official reports that become permanent records (that ought to be written up well, ie no grammatical errors, etc).

i have nothing against FMGs at all but i really do feel that path programs should get only the FMGs who have a very good command of the english language. i have worked with several faculty and residents who are FMGs and yes they are good diagnosticians, but my oh my, it is so painful to talk to them and reading their reports is always a chore - thus, it is so hard to benefit/learn from interacting with them. the sad thing is that academic path is filled with such people, i guess because the private practice groups are very selective when hiring people. because of this, residents in training suffer... ugh!!!

so sorry to vent my frustration out... this was largely trigerred by an attending i worked with last week - the experience was oh so painful!

Beware the slippery slope!

 

[yaah]

live in a fun interesting city

My idea of hell is living in lower Manhattan.

 

[tsj]

Yep. The supply is far outstripping demand. The problem you face in any big city is there is massive subset of the medical world who HAVE to live there and thus will take any job/contract/terms put in front of their face, they are:
1.) IMGs that want to stay in near big cities b/c they only can make friends with other people from their own country or they live with freakin grandparents who dont speak english. How they can enjoy marriage/life with grandma listening to you bang your wife has always baffled me.
2.) Women married to men who have jobs in big cities and cant relocate. They often dont have much ambition in terms of salary and for managed care are a wet dream come true, there are Kaiser groups of 8-10 pathologists composed of pure women!
3.) Gays who want to stay near gay friendly areas. Dunno, if I was a gay guy and my choice was 250K more a year or living in West Hollywood next to Trunks, my choice would be easy.
4.) Single women on the manhunt. Often terrified of moving to rural/suburb areas and marrying...God forbid!...someone who isnt rich/high status.
5.) Some URMs, although URMs in pathology are SUPER RARE, not sure why. (This is a very minor component, if at all)

Those factors along with a general oversupply create a Perfect Storm of caca that makes it impossible to find reasonable employment, I would say these are the worst path markets in the US:
1.) Boston - far and away the worst
2.) NYC - also a complete waste of time to even send a resume anywhere within commute range of Manhattan
3.) SF - people dont realize this city is small! And is the fastest shrinking city in the US.
4.) LA
5.) San Diego
6.) San Jose/Silicon Valley
7.) Baltimore
8.) Chicago
9.) Miami
+ Probably lots of New England places Im not familiar with, overall the Northeast US is a complete waste of time.

STFU!

"grandma listen to your bang your wife"

This one is going into the hall of fame.

 

[beary]

My idea of hell is living in lower Manhattan.

Me too. I plan to be in a small, midwestern town longterm. The catch is I have to find a small, midwestern town with a big academic medical center.

 

[yaah]

STFU!

"grandma listen to your bang your wife"

This one is going into the hall of fame.

I think you're in love with him.

 

[deschutes]

1.) IMGs that want to stay in near big cities b/c they only can make friends with other people from their own country or they live with freakin grandparents who dont speak english. How they can enjoy marriage/life with grandma listening to you bang your wife has always baffled me.

Dude, if you lived in Cambodia, you'd sob for American company too

 

[tsj]

I think you're in love with him.

I don't know about that, but it is nice to know all pathologists aren't total knobs.

 

[yaah]

I don't know about that, but it is nice to know all pathologists aren't total knobs.

I think it pretty much parallels the general population. This is good for medicine in general though, because most other medical fields have a higher percentage of knobs than the general population.

 

[hzma]

To answer your qs:

1. Its important to think about jobs of course but that is in 4 years time, lots of things may change, or not. I think you should look at the areas around LA too, a half hour drive, or even 1 hour commute, may prove to open more job opportunities.

2. The usual retirement age is the same as any other specialty. Academics I believe may retire earlier than someone who is a partner in a private practice.
But I think its variable. I don't know, maybe someone else can give you more input on that regard.

3. I think since you did Path before, you're probably very experienced, and that will help you fly through residency, rather than starting over a new specialty. (unless you didn't like Path and were doing it anyway). You might even find yourself studying the same books (like Rosai). Practically speaking what kind of feedback are you getting from programs after your interviews- where do you think they will be ranking you higher. I personally would rather wait another year than have to do something other than Path, but if its not a big deal to you then wherever they offer you, go!

And definately, follow your gut feeling.

Good luck! And good job in getting this far, you're one determined person and ought to be proud of yourself!

 

[glorybrian]

Dear All,

Thank you for your kind comments .
You comment provides me some insight about current pathology job market.
I have more interviews in primary care (IM & FM) than pathology.
Primary care training might be difficult but job situation may be more flexible in location. I am more comfortable with pathology training but I have to consider future job market. Since I am commuting 1 hour now, I don’t mind 1-hour commute, if necessary.
Thank you again for everyone’s contribution.

 

[tsj]

I think LADOC00 raises some valid points in his theory on why starting salaries are lower in big cities a)over supply of new trainees b) women who are willing to work for less as they are married to a successful men c) in general people that "have" to live in that big city.

This might explain starting salaries, but how about partnership salary? After you are a partner and are getting an even split after 2-5 years do people in the distant burbs and rural parts of the country still make way more money than people in the cosmopolitan urban centers like NY, Boston, LA, SF? If that is the case, that just doesn't seem right. That's backasswards from all other professions.

 

[pathdawg]

I think LADOC00 raises some valid points in his theory on why starting salaries are lower in big cities a)over supply of new trainees b) women who are willing to work for less as they are married to a successful men c) in general people that "have" to live in that big city.

This might explain starting salaries, but how about partnership salary? After you are a partner and are getting an even split after 2-5 years do people in the distant burbs and rural parts of the country still make way more money than people in the cosmopolitan urban centers like NY, Boston, LA, SF? If that is the case, that just doesn't seem right. That's backasswards from all other professions.

And here is your answer: There aren't partnership opportunities in large cities. There are many reasons for this, not the least of which is hospital consolidations and affiliations with large health systems. The lack of partnership jobs is a big reason for the disparity in pay in metropolitan settings.

 

[1Path]

5.) Some URMs, although URMs in pathology are SUPER RARE, not sure why. (This is a very minor component, if at all)

So are URM's SUPER RARE or are all 20 of them that complete residencies every year flocking to evey major US city at the same time?

 

[tsj]

And here is your answer: There aren't partnership opportunities in large cities. There are many reasons for this, not the least of which is hospital consolidations and affiliations with large health systems. The lack of partnership jobs is a big reason for the disparity in pay in metropolitan settings.

Are there actually fewer jobs in the NY, Boston and SF than 30 years ago? IS that why there are less partner jobs?

 

[pathdawg]

Are there actually fewer jobs in the NY, Boston and SF than 30 years ago? IS that why there are less partner jobs?

There are indeed fewer jobs overall in large metropolitan areas, but this doesn't really explain the lack of partnership jobs. The main reason for this is that these areas are saturated by large hospital-, university-, and health-system-owned operations, in addition to large private megalabs such as Quest. So, a small physican-owned lab would have an exceedingly hard time comepeting with these larger (and deeper-pocketed) outfits. This dynamic also hepls explain the lower salaries seen in these big cities.

I practice in a large city, and I would catagorize the private physican owned pathology practice as a very rare bird.

 

[tsj]

Well that's kind of sad. Autonomy is one of the things that drew me to medicine. Now it sounds like pathologists are just "punch in-punch out" employees. That's actually really sad.

Surgeons are lucky. They probably own their own practices and eat what they kill (so to speak) and not having to give a cut to the larger corporation who aren't physicians.

 

[pathdawg]

Well that's kind of sad. Autonomy is one of the things that drew me to medicine. Now it sounds like pathologists are just "punch in-punch out" employees. That's actually really sad.

Surgeons are lucky. They probably own their own practices and eat what they kill (so to speak) and not having to give a cut to the larger corporation who aren't physicians.

I can relate. I also went into medicine thinking I was going to be automomous. That is just not my reality at the moment.

Autonomy is a double-edged sword, tho. Surgeons are probably more often autonomous, but they work much much harder in that they have to hustle for their cases. In the end, they aren't getting paid anywhere near what they were in the past (and nowhere near what they should be making, btw). Thats the interesting trend in medicine: The disparity in pay has shrunk considerably. It used to be that family docs made a certain salary (lets say 120k for argument's sake) and subspecialists routinely made significantly more (like 300-500k). Now, a family doc is getting 85-120k range and a subspecialist is in the 150-250k range. Not nearly the difference we were seeing in the past.

With that said, if you have your heart set on being autonomous, then you will a) certainly live in a rural/subrural setting; and b) probably be disappointed anyway. The age of autonomy in pathology is quickly becoming a thing of the past.

 

[yaah]

Well, surgeons are only autonomous when they are in the OR, really. Not that much different. Their practices are controlled, they can only operate where and when they are granted time to. They can't really be in individual practices as easily anymore either. This is far from limited to path - it's how things are in the world these days.

 

[tsj]

I guess my point is that surgeons aren't employees of a larger organization. They can work a lot. They can work a little. They keep what they earn. I thought that is how path went too. You sign out cases and you get paid for that case.

But now it seems the future is for all of pathology to be owned by larger corporations where we get a salary and the corporation takes a 15,25,50%(?) cut of what we make. That's really too bad. Somehow these MBAs have made themselves the middle men that we have to go through to get work. Radiology I imagine faces the same problem because they can be rounded up just like us. On top of it Radiology has to deal with the issues of outpatient studies being sent to the group that will do it for the cheapest amount and pay the biggest kickback or even worse having the stuff sent to India. When technology allows all the outpatient prostate, GI, derm, gyn biopsies to be read in India, our livelihood is done.

Is this really the future of pathology? Will all of private practice be owned by Ameripath, US Labs etc?

Academics is starting to look like the better option.

 

[pathdawg]

I guess my point is that surgeons aren't employees of a larger organization. They can work a lot. They can work a little. They keep what they earn. I thought that is how path went too. You sign out cases and you get paid for that case.

But now it seems the future is for all of pathology to be owned by larger corporations where we get a salary and the corporation takes a 15,25,50%(?) cut of what we make. That's really too bad. Somehow these MBAs have made themselves the middle men that we have to go through to get work. Radiology I imagine faces the same problem because they can be rounded up just like us. On top of it Radiology has to deal with the issues of outpatient studies being sent to the group that will do it for the cheapest amount and pay the biggest kickback or even worse having the stuff sent to India. When technology allows all the outpatient prostate, GI, derm, gyn biopsies to be read in India, our livelihood is done.

Is this really the future of pathology? Will all of private practice be owned by Ameripath, US Labs etc?

Academics is starting to look like the better option.

Truth be told (as yaah alluded to above) many non-pathology practices such as surgery and internal med are also health system-owned. This phenomenon is not limited to pathology at all.

The logistics of sending pathology cases to India would seem to me to be pretty tough, unless there was some way to transmit microscopic pictures over the net. I really don't see that happening.

Again, autonomy in medicine is becoming more rare across the board.

Academia is another matter. If reasearch is your bag, then go for it. Be aware, though, that in academia, you will be paid less and have to deal with an amazing amount of politics. It is far from the idealistic world that it often pretends to be.

 

[tsj]

I don't think it is the same in other fields. Aside from Kaiser, surgeons and internists aren't paid salary. The more they work the more they make and no one gets a cut.

The whole privitization of medicine has really hurt docs and in particular pathologists.

 

[gungho]

I don't think it is the same in other fields. Aside from Kaiser, surgeons and internists aren't paid salary. The more they work the more they make and no one gets a cut.

There are other organizations beside Kaiser where physicians are salaried, but even in non-salaried situations, though the more they work, the more they make, the pay per unit has dropped-ask the surgeon what he gets for a gall bladder/appendix,etc. now vs. what he got 5-10 yr. ago

The whole privitization of medicine has really hurt docs and in particular pathologists.

"Privatization"? What do you mean by that? In my mind, privatization would imply greater autonomy and freedom, the opposite of what we are seeing.

I would also submit that the incomes quoted in another post are fairly low, especially on the FP side.

 

[pathdawg]

I would also submit that the incomes quoted in another post are fairly low, especially on the FP side.

I was giving ballpark figures based on anecdoctal evidence from the Northeastern US. I too was shocked at what FPs' make in this neck of the woods.

 

[yaah]

There are other organizations beside Kaiser where physicians are salaried, but even in non-salaried situations, though the more they work, the more they make, the pay per unit has dropped-ask the surgeon what he gets for a gall bladder/appendix,etc. now vs. what he got 5-10 yr. ago

Yes - and in order for them to work, they have to be granted OR time, which isn't always easy. Hospitals would prefer to give OR time to certain cases and surgeons...

 

[tsj]

Yes - and in order for them to work, they have to be granted OR time, which isn't always easy. Hospitals would prefer to give OR time to certain cases and surgeons...

And that doesn't contradict my statement that they aren't employees for some national corporation.