Pathology moonlighting

[BlondeDocteur]

While the job market in pediatric pathology is perhaps stronger than many other areas of pathology, it is not all rainbows and sunshine either. Having recently interviewed a year ago (and found a job), 200K is definitely an overestimate. More realistic numbers would be 130-150 or lower if it is an instructor level position which is becoming unfortunately more common for a first time job. Private jobs are a different story, but these are hard to find. I also wouldn't automatically discredit doing CP even for an academic job. Some academic children's hospitals can still be smaller and are frequently staffed separately from the associated adult hospital. It may be useful to these groups to be able to provide the additional CP services. Considering how tight the current job market is, it may be worth the extra year for CP training so that you don't further limit your job availability.

I don't think so. I'm cautiously optimistic. Here are the data I know of, which are admittedly 2 years old: at the time of the pediatric path ISE, 47%-- nearly half-- of the fellows had no job offer. Not encouraging.

But of those who did, the salary was quite robust. Please look here, at page 31. 44% of fellows *with an offer in hand* had a starting salary >$200K.

http://www.ascp.org/PDF/Fellowship-Reports/Fellowship-Job-Market-2012.pdf

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[Tiki]

I don't think so. I'm cautiously optimistic. Here are the data I know of, which are admittedly 2 years old: at the time of the pediatric path ISE, 47%-- nearly half-- of the fellows had no job offer. Not encouraging.

But of those who did, the salary was quite robust. Please look here, at page 31. 44% of fellows *with an offer in hand* had a starting salary >$200K.

http://www.ascp.org/PDF/Fellowship-Reports/Fellowship-Job-Market-2012.pdf

I agree that 200,000 is high for academics. I know of three folks from residency/fellowship that went into peds (all did fellowships at highly competitive places) and none of them started at 200,000 or greater. They all started from 140,00-170,000. Granted, all three are at top tier academic institutions, which tend to pay less.

I will say, I don't know anyone (out of all the residents and fellows I've worked with) who took one of these fabled instructor positions for less than 100,000 (in any path specialty). Everyone that I know of has started at assistant professor with a salary of at least 140,000, if not more. Not saying those instructor positions don't exist, but I also don't think they are super common either.

 

[randomlogik]

I don't think so. I'm cautiously optimistic. Here are the data I know of, which are admittedly 2 years old: at the time of the pediatric path ISE, 47%-- nearly half-- of the fellows had no job offer. Not encouraging.

But of those who did, the salary was quite robust. Please look here, at page 31. 44% of fellows *with an offer in hand* had a starting salary >$200K.

http://www.ascp.org/PDF/Fellowship-Reports/Fellowship-Job-Market-2012.pdf

Yes, I've seen that summary before. Do keep in mind that only 19 people took the PISE that year, so it can be easy to skew the data.

 

[GlassPusherJack]

One other thing I really liked about my new residency program is that the path residents moonlight. I had no idea pathology moonlighting even existed because if you can't sign out cases on your own, what's the point? But it's almost 100% grossing specimens on the weekends at small hospitals with no PA and with path groups eager to have the time off. They pay between $80 and $120 an hour for 12-hour shifts. And you're not eligible till you're a PGY-2. Sure beats the 24-hour ER or 'house physician' shifts moonlighting surgery residents are privy to.

Anyway I started asking around and found at least 1 junior attending here moonlighted during residency reading slides to confirm diagnoses for research studies, which also sounded pretty good (and that's in the oversaturated LA market).

Curious what other people's experiences are-- what other opportunities are out there to make extra *pathology-related* cash during residency?

I'll play..
moonlighting..
During residency: moonlighting offered (highly encouraged when we were short of PAs) to mid and senior residents in the form of grossing from 5 to 8 pm. $70/hour.. i painfully tried to avoid this- rather stay poor than gross more.
digital microscopy for research: $3000 lump sum.. many hours in off time over a few months
helping an institution with canned standard text for some test results: undisclosed amount

the job thing..
personally, talked to ~8 institutions; 4 of which i was recruited to and the other 4 of which i actively applied
went on 4 interviews, canceled a 5th (the interview thing gets old fast..)
3 great job offers in my top 2 locations (the 4th place i interviewed was in a location where i could not see myself living)
attributing uncommon luck to being in the right place at the right time (?)
most fellows at my current institution have obtained jobs, and are generally happy with the offers. however, there are still a few good candidates that i know who do not have jobs. most of the latter are geographically limited.

 

[vistaril]

I don't think so. I'm cautiously optimistic. Here are the data I know of, which are admittedly 2 years old: at the time of the pediatric path ISE, 47%-- nearly half-- of the fellows had no job offer. Not encouraging.

But of those who did, the salary was quite robust. Please look here, at page 31. 44% of fellows *with an offer in hand* had a starting salary >$200K.

http://www.ascp.org/PDF/Fellowship-Reports/Fellowship-Job-Market-2012.pdf

so that means 15% of all people had a starting salary of that. Not good. Based on the numbers of people you're talking about in the survey total, that literally consists of like a handful of people.

academic positions don't negotiate salary in a vacuum...if they want someone who isn't CP trained, they know this person has limited job prospects driving down their pontential salary outside of academia, and the negotiations reflect that.

 

[BlondeDocteur]

Your math is bad. What it means is that of the 19 people who graduated in 2012, 10 had dry ink on their contracts by the time they took their in service exam. Of those 10, 2-3 made between 100-150k, 3 made between 150 and 200k, and 4-5 made between 200-250. I have no reason to assume that worst-case scenario that the other 9 were doomed to unemployment.

Hiring in academia is based on multiple factors. Research track record, ability to pull in grants, clinical ability, connections, teaching, niche specialty that the department needs, etc. Pediatric pathology is almost exclusively practiced in academia so there is no worry that the candidate just couldn't hack it in the real world and stupidly tailored her career to the academy. I'll get back to you in four years and let you know how it pans out.

 

[Pollux]

I don't think so. I'm cautiously optimistic. Here are the data I know of, which are admittedly 2 years old: at the time of the pediatric path ISE, 47%-- nearly half-- of the fellows had no job offer. Not encouraging.

Glad to see that you did some research on pediatric path already. The most recent (2013) fellowship job market survey can be found here:
http://www.ascp.org/PDF/Fellowship-Reports/ASCP-Fellowship-Job-Market-Surveys.pdf

Last year, only 18% of pediatric fellows did not have a job offer at the time of the survey. The median starting salary was between $150-200k.

 

[LADoc00]

I could pay a 120K a year for a FT Pathologist where I am and have a line around the block. Not just trainees mind you but people with 10-15 years of experience.

Groups that keep advertising for positions (and Im not mentioning names here because I will get sued by these idiots) are MASSIVE red flags to potential hires.

I find the very concept of a new hire right out of training making 250K almost laughable. A good friend of mine is a triple boarded CT Oncology Surgeon who trained at Brigham and starting salary was 150.

Times they are a changing!

Look out BELOW.

 

[Cellpathology]

I could pay a 120K a year for a FT Pathologist where I am and have a line around the block. Not just trainees mind you but people with 10-15 years of experience.

Groups that keep advertising for positions (and Im not mentioning names here because I will get sued by these idiots) are MASSIVE red flags to potential hires.

I find the very concept of a new hire right out of training making 250K almost laughable. A good friend of mine is a triple boarded CT Oncology Surgeon who trained at Brigham and starting salary was 150.

Times they are a changing!

Look out BELOW.

How do you PM someone? is it the same as "start conversation"?

 

[turtle1966]

I could pay a 120K a year for a FT Pathologist where I am and have a line around the block. Not just trainees mind you but people with 10-15 years of experience.

I find the very concept of a new hire right out of training making 250K almost laughable.

120K? I presume you speak of LA, where the "allowed rate" is one of the highest in the nation. Who keeps all the money? Hopefully you? Or is it 70% HMO insurance mix that dictates such a slave wage?

 

[BlondeDocteur]

I
I find the very concept of a new hire right out of training making 250K almost laughable. A good friend of mine is a triple boarded CT Oncology Surgeon who trained at Brigham and starting salary was 150.

This is absolutely true, in academia. Salaries at the top-flight hospitals are still very, very low regardless of specialty (for everyone, one poster in particular, who thinks that surgery = automatic cash cow).

I have a good friend who is a cardiologist in his first year of practice at MGH. He was at Oxford with me (so Master's from Ox), HMS, MGH for IM residency, MGH for cards fellowship. Total of 12 years of post-college training at arguably the best institutions. Starting salary: $90,000.

 

[deleted314957]

This is absolutely true, in academia. Salaries at the top-flight hospitals are still very, very low regardless of specialty (for everyone, one poster in particular, who thinks that surgery = automatic cash cow).

I have a good friend who is a cardiologist in his first year of practice at MGH. He was at Oxford with me (so Master's from Ox), HMS, MGH for IM residency, MGH for cards fellowship. Total of 12 years of post-college training at arguably the best institutions. Starting salary: $90,000.

WOW! That is EXTREMELY middle class in that locale for a family with 2 kids. I was hired for more than that more than 25 years ago! ( in a low cost of living area).