Pathology Program Rank (by research)

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HappyPanda

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Hey, for those who are looking for a "ranking" list of Pathology departments across the nation, these links may be useful.

<a href="http://grants1.nih.gov/grants/award/rank/pathology04.htm">2004 NIH funding rank.</a>

<a href="http://grants1.nih.gov/grants/award/rank/pathology03.htm">2003 NIH funding rank.</a>

<a href="http://grants1.nih.gov/grants/award/trends/medschl.htm">Earlier years.</a>

I was a little surprised to see UT-SW was way behind other Texas schools like Baylor, UTMB-Galveston and UT-San Antonio. But, this only counts NIH grants. Some departments may get other significant funding sources.

And, the amont of research grants does not necessarily correlate with the strength of residency program.

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I think also, the researcher you work with matters more than where you're at.

[Edit]Wow, and my U is #12 on the list, above quite a few of the usual suspects. :eek: Learn something new every day. Clearly there's some heavy-duty research going around here that I haven't got the slightest clue about.
 
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HappyPanda said:
And, the amont of research grants does not necessarily correlate with the strength of residency program.
Yeah, no ****. Residency doesn't teach you how to be a researcher...it teaches you how to be a pathologist in a clinical setting!
 
WOW this must be the most objective way to rank places you must be a freaking genius........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
woah we take all of this grant money so we must be awesome as far as path programs are concerned!!!!!!
yeah!!


Dude your a F!!!!!g Idiot whats your point what do you ad to this community? Ans-nothing we dont already know. I can pull out the stats by Harvard by the cahnces that I have a dingle berry right now, but does that make an a$$ difference of how well you are trained----no
 
DasN said:
Dude your a F!!!!!g Idiot whats your point what do you ad to this community? Ans-nothing we dont already know.

Dude - take some Xanax or something. Or post something that "ads" to the community.
 
DasN said:
WOW this must be the most objective way to rank places you must be a freaking genius........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
woah we take all of this grant money so we must be awesome as far as path programs are concerned!!!!!!
yeah!!


Dude your a F!!!!!g Idiot whats your point what do you ad to this community? Ans-nothing we dont already know. I can pull out the stats by Harvard by the cahnces that I have a dingle berry right now, but does that make an a$$ difference of how well you are trained----no
Totally dude. It's like ranking med schools by how much NIH grant money their investigators get.

Totally ludicrous. First of all, the major hardcore researchers don't have much of an impact on medical education. Second of all, how much money an institution gets has little impact on a med student's education.

In residency, it's the same. The hardcore researchers aren't gonna be there signing out. F*ck, they've been successful in research so they've garnered enough political and financial power (a portion of one's grant money goes to the department) to negotiate a contract where they have minimal clinical duties as possible. So you don't see these people as a resident. You see those who have committed themselves to clinical aspects of medicine...those whose responsibilities mainly comprise of signing out cases.

Grant money has little to no correlation to clinical education. Suggestions to the contrary need to be dropped.
 
HappyPanda already specified in his/her original post that this was a "ranking", not a ranking. That the links may be useful. And also that the amount of research grants does not necessarily correlate with the strength of residency program.

I think that is a perfectly credible analysis of the list.

Being the original poster, HappyPanda can correct me if I'm wrong, but it was never claimed that the list was the only or most objective way of ranking path programs. Information is always helpful, there are always new people visiting these forums and heck, I learnt something. So I don't see any downside at all.
 
beary said:
Dude - take some Xanax or something. Or post something that "ads" to the community.


YOu are a waste of space
keep to yourself
If you have 1 brain cell you will figure this out now that no one cares about your comments
 
DasN said:
YOu are a waste of space
keep to yourself
If you have 1 brain cell you will figure this out now that no one cares about your comments

Well i do, ...and yeah she s right, take the xanax, i think it would help!
 
Come on guys, Play nice! :p
 
Interesting link for those pursuing research careers.

For the rest of us, I don't think it means diddly squat. Oh, well. That's one of the great things about path people - most of us don't really care about rankings. ;)
 
I realize I'm not going through ERAS for like, another decade, but for someone like me who is interested in research, should I apply to these programs (the ones near the top of the list, I mean)? Especially, if I want to do the PSTP/STAR/whatever-type thing? You know, the more $$$ they have, the more likely they'll fund a resident/post-doc line of thought?

-X

AndyMilonakis said:
The hardcore researchers aren't gonna be there signing out. F*ck, they've been successful in research so they've garnered enough political and financial power (a portion of one's grant money goes to the department) to negotiate a contract where they have minimal clinical duties as possible.
 
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xanthines said:
I realize I'm not going through ERAS for like, another decade, but for someone like me who is interested in research, should I apply to these programs (the ones near the top of the list, I mean)? Especially, if I want to do the PSTP/STAR/whatever-type thing? You know, the more $$$ they have, the more likely they'll fund a resident/post-doc line of thought?

-X
It depends. Are you committed to doing research in the field of pathology? Are you planning on doing your postdoc in a lab in the department of pathology? If so, then yes. If you look at the list, the ranking is for pathology departments only. And my feeling is that when I look at the big picture as to who is doing the cutting edge biomedical research...it's not pathology...at this state in time.

Things may change in the upcoming decade. Pay attention to trends and make the best decision for yourself when the time comes.

Also keep this in mind. Don't think in the box. Don't restrict yourself to pathology. I didn't. In fact, I'm not really planning on doing a postdoc in a pathology lab. If you're research-minded, go to a strong institution where there are powerful people and cutting-edge research you can network with in a variety of fields--a place where they don't just reinvent the wheel but a place where science is revolutionalized.
 
AndyMilonakis said:
Also keep this in mind. Don't think in the box. Don't restrict yourself to pathology. I didn't. In fact, I'm not really planning on doing a postdoc in a pathology lab. If you're research-minded, go to a strong institution where there are powerful people and cutting-edge research you can network with in a variety of fields--a place where they don't just reinvent the wheel but a place where science is revolutionalized.



Yoda master!!!
N'er a truer word was spoken!
 
Personal attacks are uncalled for and inappropriate in this forum. If you can't play nice, then don't play at all.

Thanks.
 
quant said:
Yoda master!!!
N'er a truer word was spoken!
Seriously man. You don't get a tenure track position by publishing in Am J Surg Path and Mod Path. You get tenure by kicking ass and publishing in Cell, Science, and Nature.
 
AndyMilonakis said:
Seriously man. You don't get a tenure track position by publishing in Am J Surg Path and Mod Path. You get tenure by kicking ass and publishing in Cell, Science, and Nature.


baby steps though right?
start slow, aim big and kick ass hard.....
 
quant said:
baby steps though right?
start slow, aim big and kick ass hard.....
Hmm...I like to kick ass from the start, actually. Kinda like when I was competing against other groups during my PhD. Published stuff first and continued to be two steps ahead of them. You need to kick ass from the start and beat your competitors into bloody submission.
 
AndyMilonakis said:
Hmm...I like to kick ass from the start, actually.

Something we may see in the near future:

Milonakis, A. A complete revolution of science as we know it. Science, 2006.
 
AndyMilonakis said:
Published stuff first and continued to be two steps ahead of them. You need to kick ass from the start and beat your competitors into bloody submission.

I got scooped very badly during my Ph.D. years so I think your strategy is a good one. This happened to one of my classmates as well.
 
beary said:
I got scooped very badly during my Ph.D. years so I think your strategy is a good one. This happened to one of my classmates as well.
You know, I worked full-time during the second year of med school to try to get ahead for the grad school phase. I worked on an interesting project but I was scooped. We never published it though because we found out that all our positive results were artifacts. So in a way I was relieved. But that experience changed me. It made me more aggressive. I quickly adopted a "no more f*cking around. it's time for business and there's no looking back" approach. I worked on multiple projects at any given time. When one of them worked, it spawned the next set of questions to answer experimentally. As you know, you can be waiting a while to get your first paper published. I would try my best to have the next paper written up by the time the first paper was accepted.

See, word travels fast in science. People talk a lot behind your back. Always assume that your competitors know what you're up to when you have submitted your initial manuscript. Now the clock starts ticking. If you have beaten your competitors, they will scramble to quickly put something together so that they can trump you or co-publish with you. Whatever the case may be, even with that assumption, I wanted to be at least one step ahead. The best was when one of our competing PI's emailed my boss and asked him, "Can you tell me what you'll be working on so that we don't overlap?"

GG NO RE K THX!
 
AndyMilonakis said:
It depends. Are you committed to doing research in the field of pathology? Are you planning on doing your postdoc in a lab in the department of pathology?

Statements like these make me wonder if getting a PhD in pathology and going on to do a residency in Pathology is a smart move. I initially thought some redundancy may be good, but now that I'm applying MD/PhD and attending meetings and coming in contact with more and more people in research, I'm not so sure. :confused:
 
1Path said:
Statements like these make me wonder if getting a PhD in pathology and going on to do a residency in Pathology is a smart move. I initially thought some redundancy may be good, but now that I'm applying MD/PhD and attending meetings and coming in contact with more and more people in research, I'm not so sure. :confused:
Especially for your PhD, you should feel free to do your thesis research in whatever field you want. You shouldn't feel obligated to do your thesis in a department of pathology. You clearly have a lot of experience in pathology already, it seems from reading your posts in the past. Clearly you enjoy it. If so, do your thesis in a pathology lab.

As for residency in pathology, it doesn't matter a goddamn bit of difference which field you did your PhD work in. And don't worry about the redundancy...clinical service work and research in pathology are two different things. Focus on learning how to do science during your PhD phase of training. If you feel like developing clinical skills, then do a residency...and when you hit residency, you're gonna be focusing on learning diagnostic skills.

Plus, you don't HAVE to do a residency in pathology. Another option is to do short-track medicine or peds, if you find that that's your cup of tea as you go through medical school. I'm actually biased towards short-track medicine (that was my plan A initially).
 
AndyMilonakis said:
Especially for your PhD, you should feel free to do your thesis research in whatever field you want. You shouldn't feel obligated to do your thesis in a department of pathology. You clearly have a lot of experience in pathology already, it seems from reading your posts in the past. Clearly you enjoy it. If so, do your thesis in a pathology lab.

I 100% agree with what Andy said here. I think the most important thing for your Ph.D. is finding a good mentor. You should look for a lab where you will get great scientific training and have a good relationship with your mentor. Most people switch areas between their Ph.D. and their postdoc, and then you can carry on what you study in your postdoc to an assistant professor position.
 
To broaden the theme, I'd say any serious, med student or resident research project needs a good mentor :)

A quick illustration of the point for the non-traditional (i.e. non-PhD) researchers... (surely they exist!)

I liked the way a certain professor answered my questions in small group teaching. I was looking to get my Foot in the Door at the time, and he happened to come along at the right time. I asked if he took research students; he said he did and we set up a meeting.

In the beginning I knew nothing about the work, and I made that quite clear - it was only this vague concept to me (the first meeting established that fact: he asked what area I was interested in, and I said "research"), but I was willing to learn. And this guy was incredibly patient with my incredibly stupid questions, and two years and several presentations later we're writing the beast up for publication.

It's not Cell, Science OR Nature :p and I'm not saying any of this to brag, I'm just documenting it for the "what is possible" camp.
 
deschutes said:
To broaden the theme, I'd say any serious, med student or resident research project needs a good mentor :).

Now I'm curious in a thread full of top school residents/med schools, how do you guys define a good mentor? Lots of pubs in Science and Cell? Gettting you on good projects and published within say, 2 years? Getting you out the door with your PhD in say 5 years? Getting along with other members of the department? :confused:
 
1Path said:
Now I'm curious in a thread full of top school residents/med schools, how do you guys define a good mentor? Lots of pubs in Science and Cell? Gettting you on good projects and published within say, 2 years? Getting you out the door with your PhD in say 5 years? Getting along with other members of the department? :confused:

A decent track record with pubs and students is important in my opinion.. if someone has a reputation as a terror, has no grad students or postdocs but instead rapidly turned-over lab techs, that is a sign you should heed. Their management style may be equally important.. if the person is a famous big shot, never in the lab, and you are a newer student or one who needs lots of attention/kicks in the ass to get things done, that won't work too well. It can go to the opposite extreme as well, a boss who is a micro-manager can lead to much turmoil and distress.

Long story short, a good mentor is someone who is a good mentor for you. Do some soul-searching, know your strengths and weaknesses and find someone who complements them well.
 
Dude your a F!!!!!g Idiot whats your point what do you ad to this community? Ans-nothing we dont already know. I can pull out the stats by Harvard by the cahnces that I have a dingle berry right now, but does that make an a$$ difference of how well you are trained----no

Hi DasN, you look mad. Don't you need some professional help on anger management? I explicitly said this was a list by research funding and may not correlate with stength of residency training. There are plenty of applicants, including myself, interested in research. People can ignore this list or interpret it in different ways, but it is a legitimate survey by NIH. Please be a little more open-minded.
 
1Path said:
Now I'm curious in a thread full of top school residents/med schools, how do you guys define a good mentor? Lots of pubs in Science and Cell? Gettting you on good projects and published within say, 2 years? Getting you out the door with your PhD in say 5 years? Getting along with other members of the department? :confused:
Depends on what kind of person you are. If you are self-motivated and have a lot of research experience, you don't need a mentor who is totally hands-on. If you're unsure of yourself or are the type of person who always needs attention and feedback, you need a mentor who is very hands-on.

At the same time, you want to work for somebody who is going forward. This is a little more tricky in that science is full of ups-and-downs. At one moment, you may cross a lab off your list only to find out a few years later that that lab's PI has breakthroughs being published in elite journals. And it doesn't matter much if you publish in these top tier journals during grad school. This is more important as a postdoc.

So, for your PhD, pick a mentor who will spend time with you and teach you how to do meticulous, rigorous science--at the minimum. If he/she publishes like a madman/woman, then that's a bonus. A lot of finding this good mentor for you involves you being very observant during your research rotations. You should be able to figure out if the lab is forward-thinking or not. But even after all this work, there is some luck involved...basically you gots to be at the right place at the right time. This isn't always guaranteed and that's the unnerving thing about science...but to a certain extent, you need to be aggressive as well.
 
AndyMilonakis said:
At the same time, you want to work for somebody who is going forward.

Thanks for the tips everyone!
I feel pretty good about being individually motivated and able to develope an idea but my "problem" is with the idea of moving forward. There seem to be plenty of people who are "going forward" but in my experience, going forward has NOT equated to having much time to direct and guide students. I'd LOVE a happy medium but know that in the real world I may have to choose what's more important, a lab with lots of pubs, or a mentor who's available, a mentor with money and a bad attitude. Arghhhhhhhh!!!!!

About being aggressive, I'm STILL trying to figure out how to be aggressive in science without being labelled a bitch. I tend to come off very "male like" in the way I communicate, confident, assured, but I haven't found these traits well received in research or science. This is one of the many reasons I like pathology as there seems to be a nice blend of confident males and femlaes. :)

Perhaps this topic should become a new thread!
 
Oh...when I referred to PI's that are "moving forward", I wasn't talking about their mentoring skills. I was referring to the fact that they are becoming bigger names in their respective fields...that earns them more political power, scientific authority, and increases their ability to publish successfully. It also increases the likelihood that they will get to review more manuscripts in the field. That gets them more plugged into what's going on.

By aggressive, I don't mean that you should go around stealing people's projects or doing the same experiments as someone else behind their back. What I meant was for you to work your ass off, be involved in multiple projects (your own projects some of which your boss has devised and some you feel would be good ideas on your own to investigate). Don't be afraid to learn new techniques and new experimental protocols. Many people feel safe in their little vacuum where they perform the same 2-3 experiments over and over again in different contexts..."ok to answer THIS question, i'm gonna make a cell line...then i'm gonna do some blots, then i'm gonna do some immunofluorescence." These folks think very linearly. Don't fall into that trap. Once you start limiting yourself, your competitors start to gain the advantage.
 
AndyMilonakis said:
Don't be afraid to learn new techniques and new experimental protocols. Many people feel safe in their little vacuum where they perform the same 2-3 experiments over and over again in different contexts..."ok to answer THIS question, i'm gonna make a cell line...then i'm gonna do some blots, then i'm gonna do some immunofluorescence."

Andy speaks very wisely. I fell into this trap for my first 2-3 years of grad school. I finally figured it out and got out of it, but by then had wasted a long time. I also only had one project at a time so I would stall when it stalled. Do multiple projects and do new things.
 
AndyMilonakis said:
By aggressive, I don't mean that you should go around stealing people's projects or doing the same experiments as someone else behind their back. .
This definitely isn't what I meant by aggressive either, but thanks for clearing that up. :)

AndyMilonakis said:
What I meant was for you to work your ass off, be involved in multiple projects (your own projects some of which your boss has devised and some you feel would be good ideas on your own to investigate). Don't be afraid to learn new techniques and new experimental protocols.

This is some really good advice. But here is where my "aggresiveness" has been miscontrued. What if you work for someone who despite you eagerness to master and pursue other things, pigeon holes you into one project/set of experiments over and over and over again? I'd like to know how you diplomaticaly let your PI know that you're willing and eager to learn new techniques without stepping on their toes?

For example, would it be OK to show initiative by taking a course in that technique, then coming back with ciatations and a brief experimental outline with your hypothesis of how you might incoporate it into your current project? In my experiences, this has been a sticky situation as my impression is that many of the PI's I worked for (90% women so I don't know if gender may be playing a role here) see this kind of thing as being too pushy.
 
beary said:
Do multiple projects and do new things.

I'm DEFINITELY going to make sure I follow this advice!!!
 
1Path said:
This is some really good advice. But here is where my "aggresiveness" has been miscontrued. What if you work for someone who despite you eagerness to master and pursue other things, pigeon holes you into one project/set of experiments over and over and over again? I'd like to know how you diplomaticaly let your PI know that you're willing and eager to learn new techniques without stepping on their toes?
Do your other experiments behind his/her back while continuing to do the experiments your PI wants you to do. And when these "other" projects work, that's a bonus. Diplomacy is important...but so is looking after yourself!
For example, would it be OK to show initiative by taking a course in that technique, then coming back with ciatations and a brief experimental outline with your hypothesis of how you might incoporate it into your current project? In my experiences, this has been a sticky situation as my impression is that many of the PI's I worked for (90% women so I don't know if gender may be playing a role here) see this kind of thing as being too pushy.
You don't have to show your PI this. This follows with a piece of advice my boss told me over and over again...enough thinking and do the damn experiment.

Anyways...my boss frequently told me during the PhD phase that I lack focus. And that's fine because I don't feel comfortable putting all my eggs in one basket in a given time. I have lived by the mantra of backup plans my whole life (kinda like why I'm doing residency now). He would tell me the experiments he wanted me to do. And I would do them. If they didn't work, I would do them again. BUT, I worked on other stuff during additional time as well. If nobody's working on a given idea, it's fair game and that **** is mine! This basically amounted to working 12-16 hours a day. Feel the burn!

I say focus on a project once you know it's going in the right direction. Before then, cast a wide net and work your tail off.
 
AndyMilonakis said:
Do your other experiments behind his/her back while continuing to do the experiments your PI wants you to do. And when these "other" projects work, that's a bonus. Diplomacy is important...but so is looking after yourself!.
Oh man, this is amazing!!!!! I think we should rename this thread "how to sucessfully fulfill your research requirements because as I understand it, most pathology residencies require it.

OK, so you decide to go ahead and do the experiments then you realize it requires a $1000.00 antibody. The lab manager is an anal retentive type that wants to track EVERYTHING with the PI's permission, so how do you wiggle out of this one?(and unfortunately this sitation is painfully relatable!) Do you work with whatever ab's you have on hand?
AndyMilonakis said:
BUT, I worked on other stuff during additional time as well. If nobody's working on a given idea, it's fair game and that **** is mine! This basically amounted to working 12-16 hours a day. Feel the burn!!.

So with these other projects, were you thinking "hey let me try to get a pub out of this so I can graduate and/or let me find some experiements that will contribute to my dissertation? I ask because I've seen folks get their PhD's because they had 3 required pubs and only ONE them dierctly related to their dissertation. Then again, I've seen/heard of a few folks getting PhD's without ANY pubs.



AndyMilonakis said:
I say focus on a project once you know it's going in the right direction. Before then, cast a wide net and work your tail off!.
Dam good advice again!!
 
HappyPanda said:
Hi DasN, you look mad. Don't you need some professional help on anger management? I explicitly said this was a list by research funding and may not correlate with stength of residency training. There are plenty of applicants, including myself, interested in research. People can ignore this list or interpret it in different ways, but it is a legitimate survey by NIH. Please be a little more open-minded.


Sorry, My bad. I was really drunk when I got home and posted that, hence I probably didnt read everything correctly.
My bad again
 
1Path said:
Oh man, this is amazing!!!!! I think we should rename this thread "how to sucessfully fulfill your research requirements because as I understand it, most pathology residencies require it.
Actually, most path residencies don't have basic science research requirements. In fact, most residents don't care for doing research as they want to fully devote themselves to being the best diagnosticians they can be. It's just like med school. You will see that you have some students who welcome the basic science correlates whereas the others will cringe at any information that is non-clinical. To each his/her own. We need people on both sides of the fence here for medicine to go forward.
OK, so you decide to go ahead and do the experiments then you realize it requires a $1000.00 antibody. The lab manager is an anal retentive type that wants to track EVERYTHING with the PI's permission, so how do you wiggle out of this one?(and unfortunately this sitation is painfully relatable!) Do you work with whatever ab's you have on hand?
What would I do? If I wanted to do a pilot experiment with the million dollar commercial antibody (which is probably crap anyway since they're usually diluted and then stored/shipped), try to borrow some from another lab. Another solution is to write a cryptic message to the lab who created the antibody and ask to get a small aliquot. OK this is becoming out of the scope of the thread.
So with these other projects, were you thinking "hey let me try to get a pub out of this so I can graduate and/or let me find some experiements that will contribute to my dissertation? I ask because I've seen folks get their PhD's because they had 3 required pubs and only ONE them dierctly related to their dissertation. Then again, I've seen/heard of a few folks getting PhD's without ANY pubs.
Well, when I say multiple projects, I don't mean to work on unrelated projects. If there is some theme that can be used to unify the projects, then it's part of the same thesis. Here's a quick example. You have 10 proteins in a newly discovered superfamily. 5 people are working on one protein each. Where does that leave me? I work on the other 5. All five of them! And I trash projects that go nowhere and eventually focus on the one or two projects that go somewhere.
 
AndyMilonakis said:
OK this is becoming out of the scope of the thread.
So I'll try to bring it back around to the thread topic. Are folks at these higher ranking schools likely to do some of the things you suggested like share ab's (or anything else for that matter) with another group? I heard (from a woman that is now at Hopkins who did her postdoc at Harvard) that schools set up like Harvard consisting of many institutions like MGH, BWH, ect don't help each other much because of the insane amount of competition.
 
1Path said:
So I'll try to bring it back around to the thread topic. Are folks at these higher ranking schools likely to do some of the things you suggested like share ab's (or anything else for that matter) with another group? I heard (from a woman that is now at Hopkins who did her postdoc at Harvard) that schools set up like Harvard consisting of many institutions like MGH, BWH, ect don't help each other much because of the insane amount of competition.
I've heard the same from people. Wherever you go, you will see some collaborative spirit and some competitive spirit. I guess there's more of a competitive spirit here which is expected because you have such a high concentration of high-powered labs.

I asked one of my fellow residents what the Harvard research atmosphere was like. Specifically, I asked, "Is it true that you have a lot of dinguses here?" He paused for a moment, nodded, and said, "umm...yeah." No big surprise.

Don't be intimidated by competition. Competition should drive you, not destroy you. If your goal is to, one day, run a high-powered lab, you're gonna run into it anyway. Might as well get some early exposure to better equip yourself to handle it well later in your career.
 
AndyMilonakis said:
And that's fine because I don't feel comfortable putting all my eggs in one basket in a given time. I have lived by the mantra of backup plans my whole life (kinda like why I'm doing residency now). He would tell me the experiments he wanted me to do. And I would do them. If they didn't work, I would do them again. BUT, I worked on other stuff during additional time as well. If nobody's working on a given idea, it's fair game and that **** is mine! This basically amounted to working 12-16 hours a day. Feel the burn!

awesome andy...the force is really stong in you....i think this is one of the most awesome threads in path..
 
AndyMilonakis said:
Don't be intimidated by competition. Competition should drive you, not destroy you. If your goal is to, one day, run a high-powered lab, you're gonna run into it anyway. Might as well get some early exposure to better equip yourself to handle it well later in your career.


Well i'd post a longer post of my experiences here in a PhD, but im too tired now. I ll probably post it soon enough though....
 
AndyMilonakis said:
Don't be intimidated by competition. Competition should drive you, not destroy you.
There's competiton and there's competition. The former no problem. The later where morals are often compromised, BIG problem.

As an underrrepresented minority woman trying to get into the "game", I often think of these issues. There are few URM's in academia but the fact is that people tend to hire folks that look like them. Ok, I get that (and I certainly don't condone it). But what I don't understand is (and maybe I should ask Harvard's president :rolleyes: ) why there aren't more women in academia?? Could it be the competition and not the competition?? Perhaps.

When asked what my idea position is I almost never mention tenure track anything or power lab. Women whose lives resemble mine, spouses, children, some how seem to miss the tenure track train when it comes rolling by. The fact is that I've seem (at NIH) highly successful women researchers (MD's, MD/PhD's, PhD's) that seem to maintain a nice balance between cutting edge science and clinical medicine all without sweating a tenure track position. Similarily, I've seen women mainly PhD's, do good research/teaching in academia as research assistant professors. Do these women have high powered labs? No, do they contribute to science and medicine? I think so, although I imagine there are those who disagree.

Perhaps these "low standards", nontenure track and research assistant professor positions are not in line with the goals of research focused MD programs or MD/PhD programs. But it seems for any women who wants to have a "life" and avoid competition I don't see any better choices.
 
I much agree with your previous post, 1Path.

And to clarify, I’m not from a so-called “top school”. That said, there isn’t a great deal of variation in quality across Canadian med schools (there are what, 16 of them compared to the US schools).

I also echo what Andy says – pathology residency does not “require” research, although it certainly helped my non-B.Sc./non-Masters/non-PhD ERAS application.

Residency is your union ticket to a job. Research is not. Research you do because you want to. My research project was at one point being run out of three Iron Mountain boxes and an Access database file. But it got done, which was all we cared about.

I’m not even going to go near the whole basic science issue, because it is not my sphere of operations. But basic science research is not the only kind of research out there, and you don’t have to be from a top school to do decent work.

The reason a place is “top” is because there are other places making up the “middle” and the “bottom”. And the designations are only relative to one another. Research doesn’t take place exclusively at the “top”.

We can debate NIH funding in dollars, number of publications, prestige etc. But these are all just isolated ways of coming to a bottomline, which is – what does not vary as much amongst reputable instutions is the expectation of faculty to be actively engaged academically, and to be creative and productive.

I’m a pragmatist. I believe in moderation and balance. It’s not the most popular theme. But when you don’t have a need to be the Next Big Thing In Science, or talk in big names, I think it’s enough. I don’t plan to earn my living from research – I’m doing it for the mental exercise. I never planned on doing high-power research because of peer pressure, perceived or otherwise.

Because of the “M.D.”, I will be able to do diagnostics which I like, and can afford to not get stuck on the grant treadmill.

Again, this is not a criticism of other work-styles out there, this is a continuation of the “what is possible” theme.

Find someone whose job you want and find out how they got it.
In that vein, I would define “good mentor” as someone you want to become.

At my stage of training I am only doing one project at a time, although I can certainly see future spin-offs. But the guy I work with has med student/resident projects, fellow projects, and collaborates with clinicians and “mice people” too ;)

I’m also heavily influenced by the fact that in the research world outside of North America and Europe and maybe Japan, most countries can’t afford $1000 antibodies. The work is important, it’s advancing the known boundaries of human knowledge, it will change lives – but mention the detailing of random kinases and I am bored to tears. Whoever named a “complex” certainly wasn’t kidding.

As one Internal Medicine IMG resident said to me, “Sure I could take on this pancreatic islet cell transplantation project and doubtless learn a great deal, but what good is it going to do me when I return home?”

I don’t want to leave the rest of the world behind, literally or figuratively. To my mind, current chasms in understanding (and I don’t just mean in medicine) are already wide enough. If people who shop at Walmart can understand why what I am working on is important, that’s enough for me.

Which is not to say that basic science research is necessarily isolationist, although I can see how it might be.

At one of my residency interviews I was lucky enough to be introduced to the concept of Big-R versus little-r research. My argument is that there is a role for medium-R research – it is interesting, still important, and compatible with life.

As for the subject of women in academic medicine – the Economist ran an article in July about women in business (“The Conundrum of the Glass Ceiling”). It is an interesting read – there is a lot that we have in common.
 
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