Hey guys,
Are pathology residents allowed to prescribe medications? Has anyone applied for a DEA number? Thanks,
Pathoguru
Are pathology residents allowed to prescribe medications? Has anyone applied for a DEA number? Thanks,
Pathoguru
Pathology Resident prescribing medications?
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Yes, because we're DOCTORS, we can write prescriptions. I've called in stuff plenty of times.
Most pathologists do not have a DEA number. It is a separate application and fee to get a permit to write scheduled drugs. Everybody gets an NPI number when they start residency. That's usually good enough for a pharmacy if they ask for an identification number. The ones that ask for DEA number are lazy. Tell them you don't have a DEA and give them the NPI again.
How can you graduate from medical school and not understand how to give people medications?
Most pathologists do not have a DEA number. It is a separate application and fee to get a permit to write scheduled drugs. Everybody gets an NPI number when they start residency. That's usually good enough for a pharmacy if they ask for an identification number. The ones that ask for DEA number are lazy. Tell them you don't have a DEA and give them the NPI again.
How can you graduate from medical school and not understand how to give people medications?
D
deleted314957
I have been on the staff of a number of hospitals over the past 20+ years and most (if not all?) require a DEA # for credentialing. They are easy to get--just pay uncle sam.
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Understanding how to do it is one thing. Wanting to do it is another thing.
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I do but limit it to schedule two and three narcotics and only for my friends and family and only if they are agree to give me half
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You can get a DEA number once you're licensed. Licensing criteria differ by state.
As a resident, you may be able to get your institution to pay or reimburse the fee. At my hospital, I think I needed to get a letter from the dean's office regarding my training status.
----- Antony
As a resident, you may be able to get your institution to pay or reimburse the fee. At my hospital, I think I needed to get a letter from the dean's office regarding my training status.
----- Antony
These threads are always funny, because it's fun to guess the alterior motives involved. It's like the premed threads asking if med schools or residencies do drug testing as a condition for enrollment. But I don't do drugs - I'm just asking for a friend!
I have never written a prescription except for the time in residency when the apheresis person couldn't find the attending and asked me to order Benadryl for a patient. I no longer know my DEA number and I do not care to. People say that they want one for convenience or whatever, but in reality you are a physician and you are likely to have very many physician colleagues who you correspond with frequently and can write you that prescription for Oxycontin if you really need it and are just too damn busy to go to the doctor yourself. I would also never write a prescription for my family members. But that's just me I guess.
I have never written a prescription except for the time in residency when the apheresis person couldn't find the attending and asked me to order Benadryl for a patient. I no longer know my DEA number and I do not care to. People say that they want one for convenience or whatever, but in reality you are a physician and you are likely to have very many physician colleagues who you correspond with frequently and can write you that prescription for Oxycontin if you really need it and are just too damn busy to go to the doctor yourself. I would also never write a prescription for my family members. But that's just me I guess.
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I have never written a prescription. Well, I did in med school which was then cosigned by the resident or attending. But not since. I generally feel that if your only reason for writing prescriptions is so that you can self prescribe or prescribe to friends/family then you should not write prescriptions at all. As said above, it is not hard to find a doctor to write you for something common. And if it's for something *cough cough* personal, then just suck it up and go to your own doctor.
It's amazing how some people on this board start to jump to conclusions when such a question is asked. It's like stepping up to bat knowing that you're already out. The original question never alluded to me wanting to prescribe anything to myself or to family members, or, as someone alluded, prescribing oxycontin to myself or anybody else for profit.
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When people ask whether pathology residents "can prescribe" things, 95% of the time it is because they want to self-prescribe or prescribe for friends. This is not to slander you, it is just the truth. It isn't against the law anyway, as far as I know. I don't prescribe things for anyone so I am not an expert. It is similar to, as said above, when people ask whether med schools or residencies test for drugs prior to matriculation it is because they take drugs.
As said above, there are occasional reasons why a pathologist would have to write for something, but it is quite rare and many have no reason to do so. Most states likely require path residents to have a DEA number and possibly a controlled substance license, but that doesn't mean you end up using it a lot.
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Seriously people. You do NOT need a DEA number to write for uncontrolled substances. You also do not need one to be licensed...and I would doubt many hospitals would "require" it for credentialing a pathologist (I didn't need one). As residents we generally all had one because hospitals assign one to all incoming house staff. As was stated before all you need to write for antibiotics and other non-narcotics is an NPI number.
In my opinion, if you don't have actual patients who need narcotics, it's better not to have the DEA number. It's a ready made excuse for when you get asked by your neighbor someday. "Sorry...I can't write for that type of drug. The feds don't trust me."
In my opinion, if you don't have actual patients who need narcotics, it's better not to have the DEA number. It's a ready made excuse for when you get asked by your neighbor someday. "Sorry...I can't write for that type of drug. The feds don't trust me."
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Every pharmacy I have called one into asked for a DEA number even if it was only for z-pack, acyclovir, birth control pills.
"real" docs call in prescriptions for their friends and families all the time. I remember during the H1N1 freak out, all my internist friends called in tamiflu for their wives and children.
You are a licensed physician and due to your training you can prescribe drugs. Controlled substances can raise some eye-brows, but everything else will never ever be questioned.
The only time I have prescribed a controlled med was to a friend who was staying with us from out of town with her children. Her son had multiple seizures which he hadn't had in many months. She said he needed a particular benzo to snap the cycle. I called it in at 3am to a 24 hour pharmacy. I know people like yaah like to act all self righteous in refusing to prescribe anything, but you have the authority. I could have said "no", go to the E.R. and get a 2000 bill plus many hours spent there, but I did it and the kid stopped having seizures and they flew home the next day.
D
deleted314957
I have no problem with writing for commonplace prescriptions for simple conditions (eg. prescription topical steroids contact dermatitis) for family as a matter of convenience. It is a matter of personal comfort and confidence. I did general internship and GP for a couple years and I have no problem with it. However, that is backed up by the confidence of immediate access to any speciality practioners I would need. I would certainly not be rx'ing cardiac meds, etc.
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They will ask for it because that's their routine way to track physicians, prescriptions etc. It's not, however, the intended use of the DEA number. If you have one, fine, use it. But for those of us who don't, just tell the pharmacy that you don't maintain a DEA number, and then give them your NPI number instead.
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Be careful about state regulations! In some states (MA is an example) the regulations for defining an acceptable situation for writing a prescription (independent of the status as a controlled substance or not) specify that it must be done in the context of a doctor-patient relationship. This is taken to mean that there has been a history and physical performed and documented in a medical record. The rules are written to allow you to prescribe when covering a practice for another physician, although suggesting that access to that physician's records is important to avoid errors. In contrast, writing scripts for your kids, neighbors, colleagues outside of the context of a true doctor-patient relationship can put you at risk for disciplinary action (and you don't want to go through credentialing having to explain this).
For example, see http://www.massmedboard.org/regs/pdf/prescribe2.pdf
For example, see http://www.massmedboard.org/regs/pdf/prescribe2.pdf
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It's not self-righteousness. It's practicality. I have no desire to write prescriptions nor do I have a need to. It's not that I refuse to on moral principles.
I would never prescribe someone's seizing child a particular benzo if they were visiting us and that's what they said they need. I would be dialing 911 or bringing them to the ER. If they have that much knowledge of their child's condition then they should have those particular benzos with them when they travel. That story smacks of about 600 different red flags.
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I would also be worried about the kid going into respiratory arrest. That would be an horrible situation.
Some of my path attendings have given me a similar reason for not keeping a DEA number: so that they can easily tell anyone no without having to play favorites or hurt any feelings. Maybe it is the easy way out, but it seems reasonable to me, and thus I plan to take that path now that I will soon be out of residency.
But as some of you said, we are docs and it is up to each person's personal confidence and comfort level. Just make sure to not anger the feds!
Some of my path attendings have given me a similar reason for not keeping a DEA number: so that they can easily tell anyone no without having to play favorites or hurt any feelings. Maybe it is the easy way out, but it seems reasonable to me, and thus I plan to take that path now that I will soon be out of residency.
But as some of you said, we are docs and it is up to each person's personal confidence and comfort level. Just make sure to not anger the feds!
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It's not self-righteousness. It's practicality. I have no desire to write prescriptions nor do I have a need to. It's not that I refuse to on moral principles.
I would never prescribe someone's seizing child a particular benzo if they were visiting us and that's what they said they need. I would be dialing 911 or bringing them to the ER. If they have that much knowledge of their child's condition then they should have those particular benzos with them when they travel. That story smacks of about 600 different red flags.
I guess that goes to show you that it depends on how comfortable you are with clinical medicine and how hard you worked in medical school. Seizures that last less than 1-2 minutes are totally harmless to the kid and calling 911 and going to the ER would be more expected of someone who knows nothing about seizures. Had you called 911, the paramedics would have come and lazily took the kid to the ed where they would have given the kid a benzo had he more than one seizure then had the kid seen by peds neuro and discharged him with a referral to follow-up with peds neuro. By not calling 911 I saved my friends a few thousand dollars and didn't burden the ED with a no-reason 911 call.
I wouldn't care if I lived in MA, if my kid clinically had sterp throat, I would drive her to the lab, get a rapid strep test done stat, and then prescribe penicillin if positive. why the hell should I bother the ped on call and then have me or my partner wait for hours for an appt. I am an MD and I know what to do.
I know pathologists aren't considered real doctors, but I don't see myself that way. I can help people including my friends and family. It is a fringe benefit of being and MD. Hell if you were a plumber would you call another plumber if your toilet was backed up? Hell no. If you are a competent physician, worked hard in medical school, understand pharmacology, then take care of the simple **** by yourself.
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Bravo. You go, awesome MD. Some day we can all hope to reach your level of enlightenment and skill.Why don't you just open a clinic yourself so you can use your superior general skills and save the world?
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If the kid didn't have seizures for many months, maybe something has changed - maybe the kid developed a brain tumor in the meantime, but won't have any workup until the next seizure.
I will be a PGY1 path resident too and I looked into the DEA number thing. Here's the deal: You can have a DEA number if you want one (costs money though). I got one because my program covers it and because I am a doctor. I am sick of other specialties treating pathologists like we aren't doctors too. I didn't want to give up having a DEA number. It felt like being "less" of a doctor.
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Personal preference aside, some hospitals/systems do apparently REQUIRE a DEA# to be on staff. Yes even pathologists.... I'm actually pretty pissed about it b/c I was just notified of this last week (! where were you then mikesheree?) for a job I'm supposed to start in July Went through the whole licensing/credentialing debacle (and financial flogging) thinking, 'well at least I don't need to worry about the DEA'. F***! Now another $551 so that I can NOT prescribe ANY meds. whatsoever.
If someone can prove to me that I don't need it, you'll be awesome.
Went through the whole licensing/credentialing debacle (and financial flogging) thinking, 'well at least I don't need to worry about the DEA'. F***! Now another $551 so that I can NOT prescribe ANY meds. whatsoever.If someone can prove to me that I don't need it, you'll be awesome.
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Some HMO's require that all physicians have a DEA number before they will sign a contract. They use that as a level of quality control, assuming that if the doctors have DEA numbers there are not any substance abuse issues. This may sound silly, but there is a small thread of logic. It is also easier to make a single clause in the contract without exceptions.
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About as logical as requiring pathologists to be ACLS certified (one program in town requires this for all residents at least (path included), and we rotate at that hospital so we have to do it. It would be malpractice (and wrong) for me to run a code, even after ACLS! BLS for everyone makes great sense, but not ACLS.
Some rules are just plain dumb.
D
deleted314957
Personal preference aside, some hospitals/systems do apparently REQUIRE a DEA# to be on staff. Yes even pathologists.... I'm actually pretty pissed about it b/c I was just notified of this last week (! where were you then mikesheree?) for a job I'm supposed to start in July
If someone can prove to me that I don't need it, you'll be awesome.
As I said before my prior private practice group had LOTS of hospital and surgicenter contracts and most if not all required a DEA# for credentials.
I have to have one with my current employer because they have most all the same as well as additional contracts. It is really not a big deal and most all private groups or big labs will reimburse it just like your state license. You may be out-of-pocket for a couple months. I think the "real doctor or not" stuff is not germane.
