Paying back Loans

[Essentials]

With the tuition costs being so high, it seems like it would take a very long time to pay off dental school?

For the dentists out there, how long is it taking you to back back your loans with all the expenses you have when you get out of school/starting a family?

I heard from a friend that their dentist is 25 years out of dental school and still paying loans back, is this common? Thanks for your help.

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[songaila]

Well, you can choose to pay back 10 years or 30 years.

I am pretty sure dentists will be fine. Many people here have posted that making 300k as an owner is not that difficult. Also, it seems that the associates get paid close to higher end of the 100,000s.

I am not too sure why all the worryings about "loans" now. If your income is 200-300G, what is big deal about your half a mill student loan?

 

[pietrodds]

Well, you can choose to pay back 10 years or 30 years.

I am pretty sure dentists will be fine. Many people here have posted that making 300k as an owner is not that difficult. Also, it seems that the associates get paid close to higher end of the 100,000s.

I am not too sure why all the worryings about "loans" now. If your income is 200-300G, what is big deal about your half a mill student loan?

Spoken like a true NON-dentist. I would guess-timate that less than 5% of dentists with 5 years or less out of school make 200K. There is a breaking point with school debt and income and it's not too far off. 500K loans with 8% interest only is 40K a year... and that's after taxes. Take home pay after taxes is about 65K when you figure most new dentists start at around 100K. You're lucky if you don't have to pay for benefits too with the 25K you have to live off of. There's not much left over when all is said and done... this post is making it sound far easier than it is for a new dentist. Plus, most of the jobs available are working for crappy, unethical mills trying to profit from your sweat work. If you want to make the 2-300K that you seem to think is so easy then you have to own a practice and many dentists are unwilling to put in the risk or time to do that. The availability of just a job in dentistry making a comfortable 6 figure salary are relatively rare unless you want either an 85K/year job in public health or working in a sweatshop corp mill making a little more.

 

[charlestweed]

I think 2-300k/year salary is above the average for most GPs who have been out of school 5 or less years. My sister, who has been a GP for 8 years, does a lot of implant restorations in her private practice and she doesn’t make 200-300k/ year. She has always been very proud of her successful practice. She borrowed 80k and her husband (a physician) borrowed 60k. They will finish paying their student loans in 2 years (10 years after graduation).

 

[songaila]

I ain't no expert. However, 300G debt is also on the higher end. That is assuming everyone goes to NYU. I am sure there are folks that go to stony brook or buffalo comes out with lower 100s loan. Also, with all the "loan repayment" programs outthere in the boondocks. I don't understand why it would be a problem.

IHS, rural area and the millitary is "Begging" people to join to pay their loan fully. People don't join for many reasons. One of them is that private practice offers more financial incentive in the long run. You don't have to go to millitary to have your loan being reapaid.

I am just saying "the worst scanario" definately sucks(300G loan and practice in NYC). However, as many posters have indicated....become the only fish in the small pond is the way to go.

 

[QCkid]

I ain't no expert. However, 300G debt is also on the higher end. That is assuming everyone goes to NYU. I am sure there are folks that go to stony brook or buffalo comes out with lower 100s loan. Also, with all the "loan repayment" programs outthere in the boondocks. I don't understand why it would be a problem.

IHS, rural area and the millitary is "Begging" people to join to pay their loan fully. People don't join for many reasons. One of them is that private practice offers more financial incentive in the long run. You don't have to go to millitary to have your loan being reapaid.

I am just saying "the worst scanario" definately sucks(300G loan and practice in NYC). However, as many posters have indicated....become the only fish in the small pond is the way to go.

Buffalo is on the low end of tuition these days and unless you have some other source of funds besides loans your probably coming out with about 200k in debt. I dont know the hard #'s but I would guess that the average after you throw out outliers would be 200k - 300k. .

 

[songaila]

I agree. I probably low ball on the figure of low 100s. However, there are plenty of government agencies that line up to pay your dental loans. If the loan is "that bad", new dental grads would be grabbing these opportunities.(even some of the "dental mills" are offering if you are willing to sell your soul).

It's kind of like on the medical board where people post half a million loan and $150,000 FP salary. That is exaggerating. If you use the "lowest STARTING salary" and the "highest debt" ratio, then it sucks. Then, why don't these doctors work at IHS or rural area to pay their loans off. If it's that bad that you can't provide your family, people would be lining up for the loan repayment programs. It is location, money and future advancement.

Also, you are assuming you make the salary of an associate for the rest of your life. If you do own your practice, the calculation would be different.

 

[makushin]

I agree. I probably low ball on the figure of low 100s. However, there are plenty of government agencies that line up to pay your dental loans. If the loan is "that bad", new dental grads would be grabbing these opportunities.(even some of the "dental mills" are offering if you are willing to sell your soul).

It's kind of like on the medical board where people post half a million loan and $150,000 FP salary. That is exaggerating. If you use the "lowest STARTING salary" and the "highest debt" ratio, then it sucks. Then, why don't these doctors work at IHS or rural area to pay their loans off. If it's that bad that you can't provide your family, people would be lining up for the loan repayment programs. It is location, money and future advancement.

Also, you are assuming you make the salary of an associate for the rest of your life. If you do own your practice, the calculation would be different.

With the economy in shambles and the cost of school skyrocketing, I think we will be seeing a lot more interest in HPSP and the other programs. They have only had a hard time selling military dentistry for the last 10-15 years. If you talk to dentists age 40+ that did military, you will find most didn't even get any sort of scholarship. And that was when school was ridiculously cheap.

I think taking on $400k in debt to go to dental school is about as smart as buying a house in Las Vegas 4 years ago. Just my two cents.

 

[songaila]

Well, if you really don't want to go to the millitary, there is IHS and middle of the nowhere in the "rust belt". There are many ways to pay it back so loan is really not an issue. The issue is if you want to risk going to wars or stay in the boondocks.

Obviously, last couple weeks is depressing for all of us. However, last few weeks don't project the next couple of decades. I agree the next two years maybe tough for some graduates. However, in the long run, it beats out most of the professions.

Aren't half the dentists female? My dentist works part time for her husband. I wonder how common is female dentist work part time because the spouse is doing well fiancially. If that is the case, that should fuel the shortage too.

 

[Cold Front]

Aren't half the dentists female? My dentist works part time for her husband. I wonder how common is female dentist work part time because the spouse is doing well fiancially. If that is the case, that should fuel the shortage too.

No, 1 in 5 dentists are females, while 1 in 2 dental students are females. There are already more female applicants than male applicants applying to dental schools, but educational institutions have had to adopt higher standards for women in order to maintain an even gender ratio.

I agree, overall it will fuel the shortage, as more female enter the profession (according to ADA).

 

[songaila]

Yep, half of all the entering dental and medical students are female. Also, a lot of people choose dentistry over medicine for the lifestyle issue.

One of the dentist I know got her tuition paid off by her dad(he is rich). She is working 3 days a week and chill out the rest of week in the city. Well, her dad is bragging about his only daughter went to Columbia dental college every time I saw him I guess it's a win-win situation.

I am not saying this is the norm. However, I would say there are also certain percentage of the dental students got financial assistance from the family.(more power to them.)

 

[krmower]

With the tuition costs being so high, it seems like it would take a very long time to pay off dental school?

For the dentists out there, how long is it taking you to back back your loans with all the expenses you have when you get out of school/starting a family?

I heard from a friend that their dentist is 25 years out of dental school and still paying loans back, is this common? Thanks for your help.

There are some military options out there - 3 I will mention:

1) Active duty military - they have loan repayment programs if you didn't get the military scholarship that will pay around $35-38,000/year

2) IMA - you are in the reserve - but it is not the 1 weekend a month thing - only 2 weeks a year. They can also offer loan repayment or large lump sum sign up bonuses for a 3 year commitment. Because you do not do the 1 weekend a month you will not be able to draw any type of retirement unless you do additional continuing education. Typically if you do deploy you go to a base and take the place of someone who is gone for 3 months.

3) Regular Reserve or National Guard - you do the 1 weekend a month and 2 weeks a year. They too offer loan repayment and/or lump sum sign on bonuses. Your time will count towards retirement if you do 20 years. Deployments are 3 months and could be at a base or in the desert.

 

[KOM]

Songaila-your line of thinking isn't out of the ordinary for many dental students out there right now, but don't you think you should buffer yourself a little before deciding to take on a half million in debt that your propose will be easily repaid? Yes, dentists have been doing very well for themselves, but what about all the uncertainties out there? I'm under the impression that the golden era of dentistry will be over in about 10 years.

 

[songaila]

Again, I am no expert. However, I disagree with the uncertainties. First of all, HPSP pays all four years of your tuition PLUS they give you money. I said it before, you don't have to take that. ARMY couldn't fill the slots. You can also take the three year loan repayment so you only have one year to repay. If you can stand practice dentistry in NAVAJO, Arizona, the government pays you loan repayment EVERY year. They do the same with MDs. They help you with loans every year you work there. You can work ten years if you want(again, depending on programs). Guess what? They can't fill the slots. Why is that? Again, location, money, advancement of career.

Again, "half a mill" is exaggeration. Even it's true, it can still be paid off in 30 years. You may have to work from 4 days to five days. If you don't want to be in that situation, you can join the millitary. If you don't want the millitary, you can have the loan repayment program "until" they pay your loan full.(very crappy locations, of course).

"Easily Repaid " is an exaggeration. I apologize for that. However, if you are desperate for loan repayment, there are programs out there that will pay you off even if you have "half a mill" loan.

Dentistry, Medicine or pharmacy are probably the safest bets out there. Yes, you may have to work a little harder. But what are you going to do? Become a stock broker? Sorry, there is no I-banks now. If the economy continues the way it is, everyone and their mommy is applying to all the health and allied health programs. Who is going to major in business administration? I would assume there would be a hike in application especially in these areas.

Maybe orthodontics is hurting right now. However, if somebody has toothache, they are going to need to see the dentist.

Baby boomer dentists have to retire at some point even their 401k has been hurt. I am pretty sure many of them would still be fine if they work a few more years then retire. Half of the dentists are female with some elected to work reduced hours or part time. Can you tell me why the golden era would be end in ten years? I thought it would be the beginning.

 

[capisce?]

Songaila your posts are full of inaccuracies and false assumptions. You're speaking from the viewpoint of a student with little to no real-life experience with this. Go post your wisdom on dentaltown and see what the responses are like from the 50k real-world dentists there. Ignorance is bliss I guess.

You keep arguing that "it can't be that bad because all of these scholarships are still open". The reality is that a huge majority of people refuse to go work in the middle of nowhere. They would rather grind it out and make a small profit and live where they want than the option of living in a remote place.

No one here is trying to say that dentistry is a dying practice. It is, though, changing dramatically from the standpoint of the cost of education. Time and time again graduating dentists have come on here to give advice and warn against taking out 300k in student loans. Maybe it's not a warning but more so a plea to entering students to really decide if you understand what you are really getting yourself into.

Specialists are still doing well and that is the one way I could see swinging these 300k+ schools. Pedo is still starting at average 200k, with the exception of NY, LA etc where it is a little lower.

A more sobering issue may be the inability to secure a business loan of 400k+ to open a practice with a debt load of several hundred thousand after the sub prime mess. I'd be more worried about that than anything. While the economy will certainly rebound, the tight lending will be here for some time. Banks aren't going to be as willing to give you startup money if you owe 300k in student loans, 300k on your house, cars, etc etc.

 

[songaila]

I am sorry if I offended you. I only wanted to help. I only wanted to point out that it is not the end of the world. Nobody wants to live in the middle of nowhere. However, if times are tough like it is now, a few people might change their mind. That is all my intention.

 

[Katalyst]

As far as paying back loans. My neighbor dentist said his loans have been refinanced off his house to 4.25%. And at that rate, it's worth it to him not to pay it off. He makes more money off investments (or did until this month - haha). So he could have paid them off very quickly, but plans to go with the 30 year deal.

I am at LSU, probably the cheapest of cheap when it comes to dental schools. Tuition is $9999/ year for in staters. I'm out of state, but it's still only $22,499. Living is more than tuition. 4 years times (22.5k tuition + 25k living + 6k fees and equipment) = 214k of debt. At orientation LSU said the average dental student pays off their loans in 2-3 years. I find it hard to believe, but I know what I heard.


"Dental student" refers to LSU dental students, not nationwide.

 

[doc toothache]

At orientation LSU said the average dental student pays off their loans in 2-3 years. I find it hard to believe, but I know what I heard.

Hearing it from LSU doesn't make it accurate across the board. It may be doable in LA, where the tuition is ~40K with a total cost ~160K, if the the loan is minimal and the capital came from sources other than a bank loan.

 

[gryffindor]

I am sorry if I offended you. I only wanted to help. I only wanted to point out that it is not the end of the world. Nobody wants to live in the middle of nowhere. However, if times are tough like it is now, a few people might change their mind. That is all my intention.

I think you bring up a good point. Loan repayment programs are out there, if you are willing to sacrifice location for a few years. Two years do go by really fast and if you can get a decent salary plus a chunk of loan repayment out of it but have to sacrifice location, IMO that sure beats toiling in a city GPR on a resident's salary and in dead end associateships for 2 years.

 

[doc toothache]

With the tuition costs being so high, it seems like it would take a very long time to pay off dental school?

For the dentists out there, how long is it taking you to back back your loans with all the expenses you have when you get out of school/starting a family?

I heard from a friend that their dentist is 25 years out of dental school and still paying loans back, is this common? Thanks for your help.

How long it takes to pay back loans is a function of the amount of money borrowed, the number of years you need to take to pay back the loans, which is a function on how much money you can spare monthly. You can make your own calculations using an amortization table/calculator.

The table will give you some idea.

	Loan Amount 100K at 7% Interest			

		        5 yrs	10 yr   20 yrs  30 yrs
Mo. Pmt     	$	1980	1161	775	665
Interest	$	18807	39330	86000	139508

Total	        $      118807  139330  186000    239508

http://mortgage-x.com/calculators/amortization.htm

 

[Aceofspades]

How long it takes to pay back loans is a function of the amount of money borrowed, the number of years you need to take to pay back the loans, which is a function on how much money you can spare monthly. You can make your own calculations using an amortization table/calculator.

The table will give you some idea.

	Loan Amount 100K at 7% Interest			

		        5 yrs	10 yr   20 yrs  30 yrs
Mo. Pmt     	$	1980	1161	775	665
Interest	$	18807	39330	86000	139508

Total	        $      118807  139330  186000    239508

http://mortgage-x.com/calculators/amortization.htm

100k @ 7% interest, sign me up. I don't know why people keep stating 100K as an example cost of dental school. Please show me any dental school where the tuition, fees, and living expenses for four years adds up to 100k because I looked and couldn't find any. As for the 7%, Stafford loans are 6.8% but they have a limit. Grad Plus loans vary, but I would calculate them as 8.5% just to play with some figures. Oh, and I think 200K @ 7.5% will be more realistic.

 

[doc toothache]

100k @ 7% interest, sign me up. I don't know why people keep stating 100K as an example cost of dental school. Please show me any dental school where the tuition, fees, and living expenses for four years adds up to 100k because I looked and couldn't find any. As for the 7%, Stafford loans are 6.8% but they have a limit. Grad Plus loans vary, but I would calculate them as 8.5% just to play with some figures. Oh, and I think 200K @ 7.5% will be more realistic.

The 100K amount and the interest rate of 7% were used for simplicity and illustration. The table was given to inject some reality into loan considerations, that monthly payments vary widely depending on the length of repayment and to point out that a 100K loan becomes almost a ~250K expense over 30 years. In 2001, though dated, subsidized and unsubsidized Stafford loans accounted for roughly 83% of loans with only 5.2% private loans, which generally carry a higher interest rate.

As for your request on the 100K limit you can check out MISS.


http://www.jdentaled.org/cgi/reprint/68/1/89.pdf
http://studentaid.ed.gov/PORTALSWebApp/students/english/studentloans.jsp

 

[krmower]

With the tuition costs being so high, it seems like it would take a very long time to pay off dental school?

For the dentists out there, how long is it taking you to back back your loans with all the expenses you have when you get out of school/starting a family?

I heard from a friend that their dentist is 25 years out of dental school and still paying loans back, is this common? Thanks for your help.

My friends in private practice seem to be taking between 10-20 years. Makes you consider the military as an option.

 

[dentcouple]

Whether or not paying back loans is "easy" or not depends a whole lot on the lifestyle you choose to live. If you go the "civilian" route through the IHS program the lowest base salary you can recieve is 91,000 (very comparable to a decent associate possition). On top of that they pay 24,000 per year towards loan repayment. lets be honest, if you live on 91,000 a year coming right out of college than your probably living a little better than you should be. Just be frugal and dump a good chunk of your base salary into debt on top of the 24,000 that the IHS pays for loan repayment. You could pay off your 200,000k student loans "easily" in under ten years. There are programs that will allow you to pay off your loans very quickly, but i think that the lifestyle you choose to live for the first several years out of school is just as important.

 

[Offhegoes9]

Work in public health and you can get your loans paid off in under 10 years. You'll receive loan repayment, a steady paycheck, good benefits, etc. Can't beat it.