PBL Intensive Curriculum

[HeartArtist]

Hoping people who are in/went to medical schools that have primarily PBL style curricula can give their opinions and share their experiences. I have an offer at a school where I was told "our goal is to have less than 30% of the curriculum in traditional lecture style." I have read good and bad (mostly bad...really bad) opinions on PBL on posts from 6-10 years ago, wondering how/if opinions and programs have changed over the years. The whole "blind leading the blind" thing scares me a bit and makes me feel like too much precious time will be wasted during sessions. And of course...BOARD SCORES...

In undergrad I have been the type of student to attend all lectures, record them, go back and listen to them while filling in notes and looking at ppt slides if they were posted to drill stuff into my brain, and its worked well for me (3.9 gpa). So stepping outside my comfort zone is a little unsettling.

Thanks for your input...

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[Textbookversion]

Hoping people who are in/went to medical schools that have primarily PBL style curricula can give their opinions and share their experiences. I have an offer at a school where I was told "our goal is to have less than 30% of the curriculum in traditional lecture style." I have read good and bad (mostly bad...really bad) opinions on PBL on posts from 6-10 years ago, wondering how/if opinions and programs have changed over the years. The whole "blind leading the blind" thing scares me a bit and makes me feel like too much precious time will be wasted during sessions. And of course...BOARD SCORES...

In undergrad I have been the type of student to attend all lectures, record them, go back and listen to them while filling in notes and looking at ppt slides if they were posted to drill stuff into my brain, and its worked well for me (3.9 gpa). So stepping outside my comfort zone is a little unsettling.

Thanks for your input...

PBL sucks and is a waste of time. Lecture also sucks and is a waste of time. But lecture tends to not be required and PBL tends to be required.

It doesn't matter what your curriculum is really in terms of learning the material, it's just a matter of suffering and grief.

So if you don't have an admission elsewhere I'd go to the PBL school - it's worth suffering through PBL to become a physician. If you do have an admission elsewhere (and that school doesn't have mandatory lecture attendance) I'd go there.

 

[GalenAgas]

Both PBL and lecture = waste of time

If you cannot learn independently at this stage you will not do well.

During PBL I bring these tiny flashcards and pretend to write stuff on them during the case but actually I'm reviewing for boards.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

in b4 "no way guys PBL is best thing ever OMG it's like being a real doctor"

But really would you like to waste your time listening to your classmates argue about which answer is right for your PBL session when you could look it up on uptodate in 3 seconds? Then PBL is for you (or perhaps you're one of those people who likes arguing about it).

Don't reject a school because they have PBL though. It's just a plus if they don't.

 

[GalenAgas]

Look this is very simple. If you are a marginal admit (someone who isn't very smart), PBL is great for you because you probably do not excel (in general but also) at learning on your own. You fail to identify what is important and what is not important. You fail to make important connections between relevant findings, physiology, pathophys, etc. Hell you probably can't identify the relevant information.

tl;dr: PBL is designed for dumb people (most of whom are not on SDN) who need to be spoon fed.

 

[ucladoc2b]

Hoping people who are in/went to medical schools that have primarily PBL style curricula can give their opinions and share their experiences. I have an offer at a school where I was told "our goal is to have less than 30% of the curriculum in traditional lecture style." I have read good and bad (mostly bad...really bad) opinions on PBL on posts from 6-10 years ago, wondering how/if opinions and programs have changed over the years. The whole "blind leading the blind" thing scares me a bit and makes me feel like too much precious time will be wasted during sessions. And of course...BOARD SCORES...

In undergrad I have been the type of student to attend all lectures, record them, go back and listen to them while filling in notes and looking at ppt slides if they were posted to drill stuff into my brain, and its worked well for me (3.9 gpa). So stepping outside my comfort zone is a little unsettling.

Thanks for your input...

Personally, I don't really learn anything in PBL useful for exams or clinical practice.

It's entertaining in small amounts. However, the bulk of your learning will be done on your own during the first two years of school.

 

[kjamess]

Look this is very simple. If you are a marginal admit (someone who isn't very smart), PBL is great for you because you probably do not excel (in general but also) at learning on your own. You fail to identify what is important and what is not important. You fail to make important connections between relevant findings, physiology, pathophys, etc. Hell you probably can't identify the relevant information.

tl;dr: PBL is designed for dumb people (most of whom are not on SDN) who need to be spoon fed.

lol i guess you arent the brightest star in the sky...

 

[deleted245139]

Look this is very simple. If you are a marginal admit (someone who isn't very smart), PBL is great for you because you probably do not excel (in general but also) at learning on your own. You fail to identify what is important and what is not important. You fail to make important connections between relevant findings, physiology, pathophys, etc. Hell you probably can't identify the relevant information.

tl;dr: PBL is designed for dumb people (most of whom are not on SDN) who need to be spoon fed.

I was under the impression that lecture was more of a 'spoon-fed' venture?

PBL success depends on the school and how it's implemented. I did PBL (and very well on boards, thanks) and I attribute a lot of my success to my pathway. If you have the motivation, it works very well... But no, it isn't for everyone.

 

[Kaputt]

I was under the impression that lecture was more of a 'spoon-fed' venture?

PBL success depends on the school and how it's implemented. I did PBL (and very well on boards, thanks) and I attribute a lot of my success to my pathway. If you have the motivation, it works very well... But no, it isn't for everyone.

Yeah it's entirely school-dependent. Some schools do it well, some do it horribly. If it's a core part of your curriculum that the school invests a lot of work into, it's easier for students to take it seriously and make it a meaningful and useful experience. If it's a token thing in your curriculum it's going to be a waste of time.

 

[hyperchicken]

PBL sucks and is a waste of time. Lecture also sucks and is a waste of time. But lecture tends to not be required and PBL tends to be required.

This times a million. My school is heavily lecture based, and I love the fact that I don't have to physically attend class...especially since I live off campus. Having to drive all the way down to campus for a 2 hour required PBL session can really get to you (even the people who live on campus don't enjoy it). Luckily we only have 4 hours of PBL a month...but my school loves to schedule them right before exams, so they can really dig into study time. Also, they keep talking about how in the future they want to expand their PBL curriculum and make lectures more "interactive." All I picture in my head are more dreaded "required attendance" classes.

I used to "like" to attend class in undergrad (really had no other choice since classes weren't recorded), in med school it's all about whats most efficient since there is just so much you need to memorize, required attendance (or pbl) may help you or hinder you in achieving this goal.

 

[Laryngophed]

My school is a true PBL school. Lectures augment PBL, but the bulk of our learning and the bulk of our exams come from PBL cases. Lots of people here whine about PBL, but I get the feeling that most of their schools misuse it. We learn just fine, our board scores are very good (good enough that the school openly publishes that information), and I had plenty of time outside of PBL to do life stuff.

If PBL is a way that you can learn and thrive, and you have a seat at a PBL school, go there. If you don't think you can be successful, go somewhere else. It isn't for everyone, and that's okay. I loved it.

 

[Planes2Doc]

I think a lot of people will agree that self-study is the key to success in medical school. As it was mentioned earlier, lectures are optional but PBL sessions are mandatory at my school.

Mandatory sessions are the DEVIL!!!

 

[MetalGearFox]

PBL makes me want to slit my wrists. I learn nothing and feel like a PoW.

But other than that I like it a lot.

 

[mvenus929]

First, I'd suggest you learn what PBL means to that school.

One school may define it as 'here's a case. Figure it out,' (which is very much the blind leading the blind) while another school may define it as 'you did the reading last night, now here's a case. Using what you learned last night, work through the case'.

Both would fit the 'less than 30% traditional lecture' format, but they offer two vastly different ways of learning the material.

 

[Textbookversion]

First, I'd suggest you learn what PBL means to that school.

One school may define it as 'here's a case. Figure it out,' (which is very much the blind leading the blind) while another school may define it as 'you did the reading last night, now here's a case. Using what you learned last night, work through the case'.

Both would fit the 'less than 30% traditional lecture' format, but they offer two vastly different ways of learning the material.

No both suck. Medicine isn't something you need to figure out the first two years. You just memorize it. This is not an upper division physics course where the math and concepts are difficult. If I spent enough time last night that I remember it, then the PBL is a waste of time. If I didn't spend enough time last night, then I need to spend more time rereading it without anyone else blabbering on around me.

 

[sinombre]

Look this is very simple. If you are a marginal admit (someone who isn't very smart), PBL is great for you because you probably do not excel (in general but also) at learning on your own. You fail to identify what is important and what is not important. You fail to make important connections between relevant findings, physiology, pathophys, etc. Hell you probably can't identify the relevant information.

tl;dr: PBL is designed for dumb people (most of whom are not on SDN) who need to be spoon fed.

This post is a bit ironic.

 

[Planes2Doc]

No both suck. Medicine isn't something you need to figure out the first two years. You just memorize it. This is not an upper division physics course where the math and concepts are difficult. If I spent enough time last night that I remember it, then the PBL is a waste of time. If I didn't spend enough time last night, then I need to spend more time rereading it without anyone else blabbering on around me.

Or spend more time dragging myself all the way out to campus for an hour, and then go all the way home.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

No both suck. Medicine isn't something you need to figure out the first two years. You just memorize it. This is not an upper division physics course where the math and concepts are difficult. If I spent enough time last night that I remember it, then the PBL is a waste of time. If I didn't spend enough time last night, then I need to spend more time rereading it without anyone else blabbering on around me.

Exactly. You don't get tested in Step1 (or preclinical tests) on your ability to go down a diagnostic tree. You get tested on your ability to associate terms in a multiple choice test.

 

[Planes2Doc]

Exactly. You don't get tested in Step1 (or preclinical tests) on your ability to go down a diagnostic tree. You get tested on your ability to associate terms in a multiple choice test.

Yeah and speaking of diagnostic tree, what's the point of going down it when you don't have the knowledge required for it anyway?

 

[CodeBlu]

I go to a school where we have approximately 3-4 hours of class a day.

Some days, we have 1-2 hours of class, followed by 2 hours of PBL. The other day, I had 4 hours of PBL and 2 hours of lecture.

I hated life that day.

PBL sucks. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. I will admit, that some PBL stuff that we've done has been incredibly helpful and useful. But on the whole? PBL is the biggest time suck I've ever experienced.

 

[JShephard]

Hoping people who are in/went to medical schools that have primarily PBL style curricula can give their opinions and share their experiences. I have an offer at a school where I was told "our goal is to have less than 30% of the curriculum in traditional lecture style." I have read good and bad (mostly bad...really bad) opinions on PBL on posts from 6-10 years ago, wondering how/if opinions and programs have changed over the years. The whole "blind leading the blind" thing scares me a bit and makes me feel like too much precious time will be wasted during sessions. And of course...BOARD SCORES...

In undergrad I have been the type of student to attend all lectures, record them, go back and listen to them while filling in notes and looking at ppt slides if they were posted to drill stuff into my brain, and its worked well for me (3.9 gpa). So stepping outside my comfort zone is a little unsettling.

Thanks for your input...

The same advice I gave to the guy asking to borrow 450k for a mph.

Don't do it. Turn back.

 

[JShephard]

I go to a school where we have approximately 3-4 hours of class a day.

Some days, we have 1-2 hours of class, followed by 2 hours of PBL. The other day, I had 4 hours of PBL and 2 hours of lecture.

I hated life that day.

PBL sucks. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. I will admit, that some PBL stuff that we've done has been incredibly helpful and useful. But on the whole? PBL is the biggest time suck I've ever experienced.

This.

Pbl could be great but 90% of the time it's a huge waste of time. You can only move at the speed of the group.

 

[Planes2Doc]

Is a PBL curriculum trying to solve the supposed "problems" with today's physicians?

 

[Wordead]

Is a PBL curriculum trying to solve the supposed "problems" with today's physicians?

My impression is that PBL is a way for ******* education PhDs to come up with data so they can publish.

 

[tobi44]

Just a general question I wanted to tack on......if PBL is all about going down differentials then does it help prepare you for third year rotations? I might be able to stomach going to PBL if I knew it was going to help me in some way, even if not for STEP I

 

[MilkIsGood]

I cringe every time people at my school want to add more small group to our classes. Seriously, why? I should have applied to the preclinical curriculum to stop that madness from happening

 

[paintballguy]

Just going to throw in my opinion. My experience at LECOM with PBL only curriculum was great. We did ~2hrs of PBL every mon, wed, thurs and the rest of my time was used for studying entirely from textbooks like Robbins Path, Cecils, Guyton Hall. It worked pretty well for me, though I did have my doubts before we started. Some of the other PBL experiences at different schools sound like a lot less fun. And yes, I think it did help me in thinking of differentials.

 

[HeartArtist]

PBL sucks and is a waste of time. Lecture also sucks and is a waste of time. But lecture tends to not be required and PBL tends to be required.

It doesn't matter what your curriculum is really in terms of learning the material, it's just a matter of suffering and grief.

So if you don't have an admission elsewhere I'd go to the PBL school - it's worth suffering through PBL to become a physician. If you do have an admission elsewhere (and that school doesn't have mandatory lecture attendance) I'd go there.

I have acceptances to both. This issue may come down to $$$. I'm not 100% sure, but I have a feeling I'm going to get a significant scholarship to the PBL school.

 

[HeartArtist]

This times a million. My school is heavily lecture based, and I love the fact that I don't have to physically attend class...especially since I live off campus. Having to drive all the way down to campus for a 2 hour required PBL session can really get to you (even the people who live on campus don't enjoy it). Luckily we only have 4 hours of PBL a month...but my school loves to schedule them right before exams, so they can really dig into study time. Also, they keep talking about how in the future they want to expand their PBL curriculum and make lectures more "interactive." All I picture in my head are more dreaded "required attendance" classes.

I used to "like" to attend class in undergrad (really had no other choice since classes weren't recorded), in med school it's all about whats most efficient since there is just so much you need to memorize, required attendance (or pbl) may help you or hinder you in achieving this goal.

One of my acceptances is at a school where lectures (audio AND visual) are recorded. This is of course ideal for me. But I know the PBL school is giving significant scholarships and my tuition may be like $30k less per year there. Thats really hard to pass up you know?

 

[HeartArtist]

First, I'd suggest you learn what PBL means to that school.

One school may define it as 'here's a case. Figure it out,' (which is very much the blind leading the blind) while another school may define it as 'you did the reading last night, now here's a case. Using what you learned last night, work through the case'.

Both would fit the 'less than 30% traditional lecture' format, but they offer two vastly different ways of learning the material.

Thanks, I'll look more into this...

 

[mvenus929]

No both suck. Medicine isn't something you need to figure out the first two years. You just memorize it. This is not an upper division physics course where the math and concepts are difficult. If I spent enough time last night that I remember it, then the PBL is a waste of time. If I didn't spend enough time last night, then I need to spend more time rereading it without anyone else blabbering on around me.

Shocking as though it may be for some of you, some people do learn better when they have a chance to apply the material they 'memorized' the night before. Staring at a bunch of words for hours on end doesn't work for me. I had to figure out another way to learn. And cases and questions work well for me. Thus, I had no problem with the way our instructors integrated cases into their teaching. I quickly learned which professors taught poorly and avoided their lectures, but on the whole, I learned better by going to class than by staying home and scrolling through pages of textbooks for hours on end.

This is why you should learn what the PBL is actually about. Some people love the traditional curriculum, because they study best on their own. Others like attending lectures and learn better that way. Others flourish in a PBL curriculum.

 

[evilbooyaa]

If you're used to lectures and seem to requier a significant amount of time in studying (lecture + recording + re-watching + taking notes) then I'd probably stick with lecture based.

However, to Galen, lecture-based learning is the definition of spoon fed learning. They tell you what you need to know, and you give it back to them for the test.

I could see if PBL had a bunch of people who didn't get caught up on minor details, it could be useful. From what I hear from those who did the PBL track for the first 2 years, they always had 2 to 3 people who would argue over stupid minutiae and slow down the entire group.

 

[MetalGearFox]

Shocking as though it may be for some of you, some people do learn better when they have a chance to apply the material they 'memorized' the night before. Staring at a bunch of words for hours on end doesn't work for me. I had to figure out another way to learn. And cases and questions work well for me. Thus, I had no problem with the way our instructors integrated cases into their teaching. I quickly learned which professors taught poorly and avoided their lectures, but on the whole, I learned better by going to class than by staying home and scrolling through pages of textbooks for hours on end.

This is why you should learn what the PBL is actually about. Some people love the traditional curriculum, because they study best on their own. Others like attending lectures and learn better that way. Others flourish in a PBL curriculum.

ohhhhh good for you. It's all about you isn't it? Guess what, the difference between going to lecture and PBL is that one of those is mandatory. For those such as yourself who "flourish" in a PBL curriculum all is well, but for a large portion of us who do not it is a black hole for valuable hours of the day that could be better spent learning on our own. If you want to go back to feeling like you're in kindergarten then by all means choose a school with a PBL curriculum.

 

[GalenAgas]

If you're used to lectures and seem to requier a significant amount of time in studying (lecture + recording + re-watching + taking notes) then I'd probably stick with lecture based.

However, to Galen, lecture-based learning is the definition of spoon fed learning. They tell you what you need to know, and you give it back to them for the test.

I could see if PBL had a bunch of people who didn't get caught up on minor details, it could be useful. From what I hear from those who did the PBL track for the first 2 years, they always had 2 to 3 people who would argue over stupid minutiae and slow down the entire group.

If it were up to me there would be no mandatory lecture and no pbl!!!!!!!!

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

One of my acceptances is at a school where lectures (audio AND visual) are recorded. This is of course ideal for me. But I know the PBL school is giving significant scholarships and my tuition may be like $30k less per year there. Thats really hard to pass up you know?

Uh yeah nobody is saying pass up money just because a school has PBL. We just think PBL is annoying.

 

[notbobtrustme]

PBL is okay in small doses (8-10 hours per semester at the most). At my school, we have a smattering of (required) PBL and a smattering of small group sessions (which are optional, so **** that noise). The PBL ranges from cringeworthy to actually being a nice break from the monotony of lecture. If you have a good group and preceptor, then PBL can be worthwhile in bits. However, if your group is bad or the preceptor mails it in in the beginning, then PBL is a 90 minute waterboarding session.

Overall, lecture is the way to go, IMO, especially when they are optional in attendence. 95%+ of the pre-clinical years is just getting this stupid **** in your head. PBL might help with that, but it's super inefficient compared to just memorizing powerpoints and listening to lectures. It's not glamorous, but it works.

 

[Planes2Doc]

I noticed that the people who attend lectures don't mind PBL as much as those who don't go. For the latter, it's torture. Especially early morning sessions.

 

[D elegans]

I go to a heavily PBL-based school. I loved it during M1 year. It made mundane information seem interesting and relevant.

As an M2 it's somewhat lost its luster, especially now that Step 1 is approaching. There are very few surprises in our cases because we've gotten to the point where we've mastered the game.

If the PBL curriculum at the school seemed like it was something of interest to you, I wouldn't let it prevent you from going there if other factors seemed positive about the school (you might even like it). If PBL sounds like the worst thing ever to you though, then I would go elsewhere.

 

[HeartArtist]

I go to a heavily PBL-based school. I loved it during M1 year. It made mundane information seem interesting and relevant.

As an M2 it's somewhat lost its luster, especially now that Step 1 is approaching. There are very few surprises in our cases because we've gotten to the point where we've mastered the game.

If the PBL curriculum at the school seemed like it was something of interest to you, I wouldn't let it prevent you from going there if other factors seemed positive about the school (you might even like it). If PBL sounds like the worst thing ever to you though, then I would go elsewhere.

So do you think the pbl has better prepared you for step 1 information/thought process-wise? Someone above mentioned that there was a complete disconnect between pbl info and the material on step 1. I was under the impression that the opposite was true. No?

 

[Caesar]

My schools almost all PBL. I liked it. Worked for me. Wasn't forced to sit in much lecture, actually have fun people to be around for the sessions, second year they were mostly MDs. Did well on step. Do what you think you'll like. Ignore what the Internet says.

 

[D elegans]

So do you think the pbl has better prepared you for step 1 information/thought process-wise? Someone above mentioned that there was a complete disconnect between pbl info and the material on step 1. I was under the impression that the opposite was true. No?

PBL is very different from school to school. It would take a long time to explain the intricacies of how it's done here, but the way it's done definitely covers the material relevant to Step 1 (though not exclusively). PBL here is the core of the curriculum. Our board scores are pretty good (the average has been in the mid 230s the last few years and trends upward with the national trend) so I think the curriculum does just fine for that.

However, it sounds like at most places PBL is tacked on to a more traditional curriculum. Since these schools don't make PBL the hallmark of their curriculum, I can see how it would be extremely annoying to be in if it's not at all relevant to the school exams or Step 1.

But like I said in my original post, my enthusiasm for PBL has started to wane. But that's less about the PBL process and more about my being a second-semester M2. At this point, I would like to have no requirements and just study for Step 1 on my own. This is everyone's feeling around this time though regardless of curriculum.

 

[mvenus929]

ohhhhh good for you. It's all about you isn't it? Guess what, the difference between going to lecture and PBL is that one of those is mandatory. For those such as yourself who "flourish" in a PBL curriculum all is well, but for a large portion of us who do not it is a black hole for valuable hours of the day that could be better spent learning on our own. If you want to go back to feeling like you're in kindergarten then by all means choose a school with a PBL curriculum.

My whole point is that they should become informed. Obviously, if you are the type of person who shuns lectures, then PBL isn't going to work for you regardless. But not everyone is you. There are some people who do learn very well with PBL, and if given the choice, might want to go to a school that has PBL over a school that only has traditional lectures.

Of course, it doesn't matter that much, since the LCME is requiring all schools to move away from the traditional lecture style, since some studies somewhere have shown it doesn't work....

 

[RockinRoll]

Hoping people who are in/went to medical schools that have primarily PBL style curricula can give their opinions and share their experiences. I have an offer at a school where I was told "our goal is to have less than 30% of the curriculum in traditional lecture style." I have read good and bad (mostly bad...really bad) opinions on PBL on posts from 6-10 years ago, wondering how/if opinions and programs have changed over the years. The whole "blind leading the blind" thing scares me a bit and makes me feel like too much precious time will be wasted during sessions. And of course...BOARD SCORES...

In undergrad I have been the type of student to attend all lectures, record them, go back and listen to them while filling in notes and looking at ppt slides if they were posted to drill stuff into my brain, and its worked well for me (3.9 gpa). So stepping outside my comfort zone is a little unsettling.

Thanks for your input...

PBL makes me want to puke to death. It's a waste of time.

 

[RockinRoll]

ohhhhh good for you. It's all about you isn't it? Guess what, the difference between going to lecture and PBL is that one of those is mandatory. For those such as yourself who "flourish" in a PBL curriculum all is well, but for a large portion of us who do not it is a black hole for valuable hours of the day that could be better spent learning on our own. If you want to go back to feeling like you're in kindergarten then by all means choose a school with a PBL curriculum.

Wise words.

 

[Planes2Doc]

My whole point is that they should become informed. Obviously, if you are the type of person who shuns lectures, then PBL isn't going to work for you regardless. But not everyone is you. There are some people who do learn very well with PBL, and if given the choice, might want to go to a school that has PBL over a school that only has traditional lectures.

Of course, it doesn't matter that much, since the LCME is requiring all schools to move away from the traditional lecture style, since some studies somewhere have shown it doesn't work....

The moral of the story is: It should be optional.

Problem solved, everyone is happy.

Plus a lot of things are being done to address the supposed "problems" with medical education. I think they are just making things worse. Much worse.

 

[RockinRoll]

Plus a lot of things are being done to address the supposed "problems" with medical education. I think they are just making things worse. Much worse.

Increase medical graduates while working on decreasing residency slots- Perfect solution for US healthcare.

 

[rpurplel]

PBL is very different from school to school. It would take a long time to explain the intricacies of how it's done here, but the way it's done definitely covers the material relevant to Step 1 (though not exclusively). PBL here is the core of the curriculum. Our board scores are pretty good (the average has been in the mid 230s the last few years and trends upward with the national trend) so I think the curriculum does just fine for that.

However, it sounds like at most places PBL is tacked on to a more traditional curriculum. Since these schools don't make PBL the hallmark of their curriculum, I can see how it would be extremely annoying to be in if it's not at all relevant to the school exams or Step 1.

But like I said in my original post, my enthusiasm for PBL has started to wane. But that's less about the PBL process and more about my being a second-semester M2. At this point, I would like to have no requirements and just study for Step 1 on my own. This is everyone's feeling around this time though regardless of curriculum.

I definitely agree with this. I feel like those that complain most about PBL are at schools where it's done poorly and just tacked onto everything else.

I go to a school built around PBL, and I really like it. Just a few points to add:

1) IT'S DEFINITELY NOT FOR EVERYONE- if you don't like working with other people, you aren't going to like PBL. With that being said, medicine (no matter the specialty) is about working in teams, so you have to get used to eventually. And you might as well get used to it in a low-pressure situation where you get plenty of feedback, rather than working in groups for the first time on your clinicals where your grades actually matter.

2) PBL is a great way to start learning more clinical medicine from day 1, rather than just normal during year 1 (if that's how your curriculum is set up). For us, we have group MWF for 2 hours, and work through one case a week. So during first year, while you learn normal, you still get to work through and "diagnose" and "treat" a patient during the week.

3) It's a great way to get to know professors really well, but I guess this depends on how your school organizes this. We have 2 faculty facilitators who are very active that we get to know really well, but if you have a facilitator who just sits back and doesn't care, then maybe not so much.

Our boards scores have been really high (multiple 270s last year). I think it really just depends on how well your school does PBL if it'll be a good or not.

 

[FIREitUP]

I definitely agree with this. I feel like those that complain most about PBL are at schools where it's done poorly and just tacked onto everything else.

I go to a school built around PBL, and I really like it. Just a few points to add:

1) IT'S DEFINITELY NOT FOR EVERYONE- if you don't like working with other people, you aren't going to like PBL. With that being said, medicine (no matter the specialty) is about working in teams, so you have to get used to eventually. And you might as well get used to it in a low-pressure situation where you get plenty of feedback, rather than working in groups for the first time on your clinicals where your grades actually matter.

2) PBL is a great way to start learning more clinical medicine from day 1, rather than just normal during year 1 (if that's how your curriculum is set up). For us, we have group MWF for 2 hours, and work through one case a week. So during first year, while you learn normal, you still get to work through and "diagnose" and "treat" a patient during the week.

3) It's a great way to get to know professors really well, but I guess this depends on how your school organizes this. We have 2 faculty facilitators who are very active that we get to know really well, but if you have a facilitator who just sits back and doesn't care, then maybe not so much.

Our boards scores have been really high (multiple 270s last year). I think it really just depends on how well your school does PBL if it'll be a good or not.

thanks for your input. i agree that if done effectively PBL can be an effective learning experience to augment self directed learning, unfortunately it is very infrequent that this occurs (at least in my experience). just a question about how your system is run: are your facilitators considered "experts" on the topics they are mediating? the reason i ask is because at my school the facilitators are told they don't need to know anything about the subject matter and their only purpose is to serve as a moderator, essentially.

 

[Dr Love]

PBL sucks and is a waste of time. Lecture also sucks and is a waste of time. But lecture tends to not be required and PBL tends to be required.

That's basically it in a nutshell.