Pbl vs trad curricula

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tuwest2011

WesternU classof 2015
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I just thought since we were getting interviews and acceptances I would start a thread to hear about PBL VS traditional curriculum as both have proven to be effective ! I applied to Western and have been granted an interview ! Having said all that I have also applied to Tuskegee's School of Veterinary Medicine. They have a traditional curriculum and I just can not imagine sitting through lectures for another 4 years as it is difficult for me to retain material and I get bored easily. I will attend if needed to because I want to get a veterinary education. I was just wondering what my fellow SDNer's think !? I have really worked so hard to get into Western as it is my first choice and I have gotten flack from classmates because of this. They seem to think PBL can be flawed but Western has really worked hard at mastering this system. Also from what I can see other programs are implementing if not adopting a similar system !
 
Good luck with Western! I applied there too... haven't heard back yet, fingers are crossed for January, as I submitted my application at the last minute :xf:. I'm trying to keep it positive and hoping that's why I haven't heard from them yet. 😉

The fact that they use the PBL method was a huge selling point for me. I find it hard to retain material dispensed in heavily lecture-based courses because I don't learn by listening. I may be able to make it work for the exam, but long term? Not so much. I need active involvement.
 
Good luck with Western! I applied there too... haven't heard back yet, fingers are crossed for January, as I submitted my application at the last minute :xf:. I'm trying to keep it positive and hoping that's why I haven't heard from them yet. 😉

The fact that they use the PBL method was a huge selling point for me. I find it hard to retain material dispensed in heavily lecture-based courses because I don't learn by listening. I may be able to make it work for the exam, but long term? Not so much. I need active involvement.

Stay positive there is another batch coming out after the holiday and yea I feel I would do poorly on veterinary exams also so I am hoping PBL offers a better perspective ! :xf::xf:
 
I've done okay with traditional curriculum (not great, but I can make it work). I find the idea of PBL a bit daunting, but I thought about it long and hard before deciding to apply to Western. I think it will work for me since the way I study for my 'traditional' courses is very self-focused anyway - I learn from the book and from internet sources more than I do from lectures or powerpoints.

Honestly, I'm a bit more worried about the location than I am PBL - I'm such a scaredy-cat about crime and big cities. :d

I hope they consider me for an interview as well - I only got my 'application complete' email about a week ago, and I just mailed my transcripts today. I'm really excited about the possibility to see the school and town, and to see some PBL 'in action' haha.

I do LOVE to hear from current students, though - anything you guys can offer about why PBL is good and perhaps why it's more difficult sometimes, please! Share! 🙂
 
Can I ask when you submitted your application? They've confirmed that things have been received, but I'm pretty sure I haven't gotten the "application complete" email everyone's talking about yet... I sent my stuff out on 10/15.
 
I was pretty close to deadline as well. My email started by saying "I am pleased to inform you that your application is complete pending work in progress and will be sent to the ad comm for review!" Overall, a pretty cheerful email, and hopefully not the only one I get that starts with "We are pleased to inform..."

Did you have classwork on your required courses bit you filled out that you were taking currently (fall 2010)? I dunno if that was any hold up (it said 'pending work in progress' in the email so they acknowledge it) but it may have been.

Anyway, don't feel bad about asking nicely for an update if you get worried. OF all admissions offices, this one has always been prompt and friendly.
 
I was pretty close to deadline as well. My email started by saying "I am pleased to inform you that your application is complete pending work in progress and will be sent to the ad comm for review!" Overall, a pretty cheerful email, and hopefully not the only one I get that starts with "We are pleased to inform..."

Did you have classwork on your required courses bit you filled out that you were taking currently (fall 2010)? I dunno if that was any hold up (it said 'pending work in progress' in the email so they acknowledge it) but it may have been.

Anyway, don't feel bad about asking nicely for an update if you get worried. OF all admissions offices, this one has always been prompt and friendly.


They are very friendly and prompt I mean a rejection form them might not even hurt ass bad that Karen Lopez is an Angel !
 
I've done okay with traditional curriculum (not great, but I can make it work). I find the idea of PBL a bit daunting, but I thought about it long and hard before deciding to apply to Western. I think it will work for me since the way I study for my 'traditional' courses is very self-focused anyway - I learn from the book and from internet sources more than I do from lectures or powerpoints.

Honestly, I'm a bit more worried about the location than I am PBL - I'm such a scaredy-cat about crime and big cities. :d

I hope they consider me for an interview as well - I only got my 'application complete' email about a week ago, and I just mailed my transcripts today. I'm really excited about the possibility to see the school and town, and to see some PBL 'in action' haha.
I do LOVE to hear from current students, though - anything you guys can offer about why PBL is good and perhaps why it's more difficult sometimes, please! Share! 🙂

Welll I have to be honest as far as locations there are other safe places nearby I alos feel the PBL is just awesome not only do they use cases which will stick in my persnicky brain :laugh: but they also seperate the molecular and cellular biology course which is not lecture but presented in a seminar format where students must again present findings in a discussion! Lastly they provide clinical skills that correlate with the case in progress which seem PUURRFECT! It seems like all my prayers about a veterinary curriculum have been answered and I cant wait I am going in with an open mind and faith that this is the program for me !😀😀
 
Yeah...I took Biochem and Stats last semester, along with a required senior thing I'm hoping they'll consider an acceptable option for the public speaking (or however they phrased it) requirement.

I haven't submitted grades yet because two of my professors are taking their time and haven't posted them. Going by prior experiences with my Biochem professor, I'm betting that grade won't be available until it's due (12/28).

It's driving me nuts, because I had a nice, solid 'A' up until she decided to base the entire flipping cumulative final on enzyme kinetics and the enzymes involved in the Krebs cycle... pretty much the only two things we covered that didn't stick. (No, I'm not bitter... 😉) I would've had to tank it pretty hard to get a 'B', but in this case, I think it's (highly) possible. Either way, I just want to know.

ETA: I am so not a grade-grubber by nature, so the past few years have been kind of... awkward, haha.
 
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@ tuwest- I'm assigned to Lacey Avila, but she is wicked sweet, too.

Safety-wise, if I don't get accepted here in the states, I'll be trying the Caribbean route, and that makes the idea of moving to the Pomona area seem a little less daunting on the safety front.
 
@ tuwest- I'm assigned to Lacey Avila, but she is wicked sweet, too.

Safety-wise, if I don't get accepted here in the states, I'll be trying the Caribbean route, and that makes the idea of moving to the Pomona area seem a little less daunting on the safety front.

I am so with you on the overseas thing and yes Lacey is very nice . In addition Ross called me last month basically begging me to send forth and application I mean they were at my mercy lol I said my Gre scores arent really to competitive and she said mines werent either dont worry I was rotlf but aye thats my next plan if Western or my 2nd choice says nay Rite on !😎
 
Sweetness! Did you have any contact with them prior to the call? At least you know that, worst case scenario, you're pretty much in somewhere. 🙂

Ross is my first choice in the Caribbean. The most talented vet I know (hands down- she's phenomenal) is actually a Ross grad, and one of my undergrad classmates is there now and loving it.

I just dread it because Defective Kitty won't pass through customs, and I hate the idea of having to leave him with relatives while I'm overseas. 🙁

That said, hopefully, next year, the lot of us will be posting from Pomona... me with an obnoxious little black and white cat occupying my lap and attempting to further dismantle my keyboard.
 
Sweetness! Did you have any contact with them prior to the call? At least you know that, worst case scenario, you're pretty much in somewhere. 🙂

Ross is my first choice in the Caribbean. The most talented vet I know (hands down- she's phenomenal) is actually a Ross grad, and one of my undergrad classmates is there now and loving it.

I just dread it because Defective Kitty won't pass through customs, and I hate the idea of having to leave him with relatives while I'm overseas. 🙁

That said, hopefully, next year, the lot of us will be posting from Pomona... me with an obnoxious little black and white cat occupying my lap and attempting to further dismantle my keyboard.

I have to be honest no I think it moreso had to do with me being a male and yea they wer like if you cant start in august we can start you in january LOl i said okey dokey I am going to work on it but i told them If I dont get in the states im on my way hey did you get interview or accepted any where else!?
 
Yeah, this is one venue where being a chick definitely doesn't work in my favor.

No interviews yet, but I've only heard back from CSU (deee-nied!), so that leaves four schools in the running, of which Western is my first choice because of the PBL method and their work on FIV encephalopathy (which Defective Kitty has... hence the customs FAIL).

ETA: I promise I'll shut up now... I am totally hijacking this thread, haha.
 
Yeah, this is one venue where being a chick definitely doesn't work in my favor.

No interviews yet, but I've only heard back from CSU (deee-nied!), so that leaves four schools in the running, of which Western is my first choice because of the PBL method and their work on FIV encephalopathy (which Defective Kitty has... hence the customs FAIL).

ETA: I promise I'll shut up now... I am totally hijacking this thread, haha.

Well I am keeping my :xf: for you on Western because I am simply in love with there program I could probably tell you errything about them ! I hope your int he ext batch after the Xmas holiday........:luck: Trust me da whole male thing has finally helped me because we all know gurls rule and Boiz drool :laugh:
 
I absolutely love PBL. It's to the point now where my attention span for the rare lecture we have is pretty much obliterated.

With PBL, it puts cases into perspective for you, gives you a context for all the minutiae, and you're constantly reminded of why you're there. There are some downsides though. You're not always going to love the group of 8 people you're with (but it changes every 8 weeks.) If you've been a slacker through undergrad like I have, it takes a lot of introspection and self-discipline to keep up. But overall, the program is great, the faculty is really supportive, and it's wonderful. The biggest downfall I can think of is the price tag.

Anyway, feel free to hit me up if you have any questions about Western. I've been trying to stay current on my blog so if you're curious what day-to-day stuff if like, you can check it out.
 
I get really excited whenever someone asks about Western 😀.

Not going to lie: PBL definitely IS daunting, and for the first 4 weeks, I was struggling to find the right way to study. But I love the freedom I have with studying.

Additionally, the faculty, like TrocarKarin mentioned, is extremely supportive. There's no other way for me to put it. They understand that PBL is a completely different method from what we were accustomed to, so they take pains to check in on us and to gauge our performance.

Pros of PBL:

- I have never had to ask myself, "Why the hell am I learning this crap?" Everything we go over and research is relevant. And during the PBL discussions, you play the doctor, and you constantly have to question why each test was run, question why that test works the way it does, question what the next step in treatment or diagnosis is. This is probably the shortest section in my description, but I cannot stress this enough.

- I'm not stuck in lectures from 9am - 5pm. We have PBL sessions for 2 hours on MWF. We have a few ancillary activities which is either practicing calculations for epidemiology, going over parasites, or having a Q&A-like session with one of the faculty with specializations in whatever field our case was focusing on (e.g, we'll have a pathologist or physiologist/internal med vet answer our questions if we have a crazy internal med case). We also have anatomy for 2 hours twice a week, where we're allowed to (and advised to) look over the comparative differences of the part of the body of interest.
But the rest of the hours of the day? I can spend on whatever field I want for as long as I cover what I need to: histology? Physiology? Maybe I want to look into epidemiology later because it's easy and concentrate on pharmacology now.

Our Molecular/Cellular Biology is comprised of 1 assigned scientific lit paper (usually relevant to our case) per week that is discussed with the class. Unfortunately, sometimes the discussion leader for that week feels more comfortable with lecture format, so you end up being lectured. But you know what? It's actually a good thing. After not knowing anything, being told what to know becomes a godsend.


- It's PBL. If I don't truly think learning "Disease/Process X" is important at this point and time, nobody will hold it against me (unless, for example, this dog peeing pure sugar comes in and you, for some reason, decided not to look into diabetes). You pick the learning issues you want to understand and think are relevant to solving the case. This seems like it leaves gaps in your education, but each case has enough information for you to pick out that you'll eventually learn everything you need. If not, you'll know where to look it up because you're familiar with your resources. Additionally, if a case seems to be pointing towards one differential and goes another way, subsequent cases will cover the missed material.

- Group work! I actually did not like the idea of relying on others before, but I've quickly realized that it's imperative to have others in the group working with you. First off, your classmates come from various backgrounds and are probably interested in a different field of vet med from you. They come in handy when you come across an iguana or horse or shar-pei and are completely unfamiliar with common diseases that plague them because you've only been exposed to small and lab animals for 4 years.
Second, with how many learning issues you come out with after even the first set of case disclosures, it can be overwhelming to try and research everything you don't know by yourself. Your group mates come to your rescue by either 1. Providing notes on separate subjects they've done research on or 2. Providing you with the resource they used so you can figure things out yourself. But because they shared, it's less time you spent getting your sources together… which brings me to my first con:

Some cons of the system:

- No required textbooks. Because there is so much freedom with what reputable source you can use to study, you will sometimes come up with conflicting or outdated information, or even information you're not ready to understand. Not all textbooks that you end up using has the information you're looking for. Therefore, I've become very very very very intimate with PubMed and SpringerLink and other online databases for my information. And I will reiterate this: your PBL groupmates help you out so much. Later during the semester, you have other groups sharing useful resources with the entire class.

- It's PBL. Nobody will tell you what you need to know. You may have an EXTREMELY huge hunch (or a "raging clue" 😀). For example, on the first day, a limping, snuffleupagus comes in with rads on its stifle. That KINDA tells me it's going to be musculoskeletal case focusing on the limbs. But that's easy. What else are they going to test you on? Vaccines? Parasites? Pain pathway? NSAIDs? What about proper radiograph technique?

They sometimes throw you a curve ball by adding in the fact that on the last day of PBL, the urinalysis showed glucosuria and blood tests revealed hyperglycemia. How sure are you that this is still a musculoskeletal case?

- During PBL, the facilitators won't guide your discussion of the case. They aren't supposed to tell you if it's diabetic neuropathy or what the vaccine protocol is for imaginary creatures. All they are supposed to do is ask you more questions about what you know until you honestly say "I don't know."
- Despite not being in class for 8 hours a day, the cases are so broad and filled with issues you don't know yet and have to look up that you'll never ever be on top of everything. Even when you do identify the core Learning Issues, after spending time collecting and verifying the resources you want to use and extracting the necessary info, you'll only have an iota of time to get a good grasp of that info before it's on to the next issue on your list.

The hardest part of PBL is being OKAY with not knowing everything and being honest in admitting what you don't know. As I've mentioned in my previous point, it's hard to complete all of your learning issues in the time frame you'd like. But what many of us had to learn the hard way was the fact that you can't go too in-depth at this point because the case issues will repeat. Example: That curveball glucosuria and hyperglycemia earlier? Don't worry about it. It WAS a musculoskeletal case. That last disclosure about glucose in everything was to give you a hint that maaaybe glucose will play a big part in your next case next week.
And yes. I love PBL despite all those cons. It is daunting, but it is DOABLE. I would rather be working at finding out what I need to know rather than being asked to memorize minutiae out of context.

Anyway, I think I've gone off and started rambling at this point. Feel free to PM me for more specific details.

And congratulations again to everyone who's gotten an interview 🙂. TT, I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you!

And regarding safety in Pomona / SoCal: It's not that bad. It's not the ghetto. I live 3 minutes away from campus and it's been alright. If living in Pomona isn't your cup of tea, we have several commuters who are in more affluent neighborhoods that are less than 10min. away (driving) to an hour away, and they do fine with the commute.
 
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I'm not in vet school yet but my program was the one who developed PBL! My elective courses are still traditional lectures though. So I guess some of my general observations about PBL:

I either hate or love PBL, depending on my group members, to be totally honest. If you have a group with a slacker or someone who has an impossible schedule and the only time your group can meet is 9pm-1am weeknights (yes this has happened to me before), then it gets frustrating. Group meetings may become inefficient and long if you have a chatty group member who likes to get off topic. Writing group essays is always a challenge. But when you have a dedicated and awesome group, then it's wonderful. You get to learn so much because it's YOU doing the research, not having someone talk at you. It challenges me and makes me feel like House to be presented with a trigger and have to find out on my own what the pathology is.

Another con is that (don't know if this happens in vet school) but you learn as much as the other students present to you. If the other groups do a bad job, then you don't learn. It's scary putting your learning in a peer's hands. Especially when it comes time to write a midterm/final. Sometimes I've had to do extra research on my own to compensate for poor presentations. You make great friends through PBL though, and it is a wonderful way to get to know people you may not normally associate with in the program.

Overall though, I love PBL and it was the reason I chose to go into this program rather than major in animal science or something. I hate the thought of going back to only traditional lectures after experiencing undergrad with PBL.
 
Thank you so much! Always interesting to hear a student's perspective... you guys brought up some cons I hadn't even considered.

(And props to Nissan for the South Park reference... :laugh:)
 
I am in a traditional program, but believe I would have preferred PBL. I learn best from experience, and independent exploration. I like working with people to figure out problems, and I hate passive lectures. We had an evidence based med class, which I enjoyed. I love spending time in the clinics, even if it is just trotting around behind a resident absorbing info, or being sent on the tasks others would rather avoid (muzzling the psycho chihuahua.) I'm not afraid of being wrong at this stage when there are plenty of folks around to correct me. I have also heard that non-trads do better with PBL than traditional classes (based on the comments of several professors.)
 
We had one exercise in biochem that was PBL-like and I HATED it. I am much happier with a traditional curriculum.

For people at Western, what do you cover in anatomy dissection? We are in there 15 hours a week dissecting so I'm curious how it works only being in there for 4 hours.
 
We had one exercise in biochem that was PBL-like and I HATED it. I am much happier with a traditional curriculum.

For people at Western, what do you cover in anatomy dissection? We are in there 15 hours a week dissecting so I'm curious how it works only being in there for 4 hours.

I am not sure anything about that exercise actually involved learning. I would think PBL is a little more "educational". We had the P and the B but no L!
 
I am in a traditional program, but believe I would have preferred PBL.

I'm in the same boat as sumstorm here. Ironically, I'm in a traditional program mostly because the most plausible PBL program for me to get into (Western) doesn't have the research support that I tend to need in a program.

UCDavis is changing the curriculum for next year, though, and though it's not exactly going to be true PBL or anything, it is starting to get away from the traditional lecture course based format. I'm jealous of next year's incoming class for sure. 🙂
 
With regard to SocialStigma's comments about PBL and the potential pitfalls of having to learn through other students: You're right: there's no way that you can learn everything relying soley on someone else's research, and it's true that having an inefficient team can be frustrating. But at least what I have found with Western's PBL (and perhaps the fact that it's vet school?), the sheer amount of info prevents you from depending too heavily on your group, but you can't do without them. You rely on your groupmates for the following:

1. Resources – so you don't spend all of your studying time looking for a good source. Also, additional sources to supplement superficial sources you already have.


2. Differentials & other ideas during PBL time – when you're sitting in your groups and being handed your disclosures about the case, sometimes extra people can help the group progress by asking the right questions and requesting the most useful/correct tests, even ones you haven't thought of to ask for. Facilitators aren't supposed to give you non-routine lab results unless you ask for them and fully justify why.


3. Supplementary summaries of learning issues you don't consider to be the most important—a major point!! It is NOT the responsibility of the group to teach you any of the most important information. If your case points you towards calcium deficiency, it behooves you to do your own homework and focus on vitamin D + calcium + PTH on your own. Each person is supposed to take home minor learning issues that are uncomplicated, easy to research, and present it to the others (e.g., emailing notes or the resources with the answer) so that you are free to focus on the larger, more serious issues instead. If you need help with a learning issue because it's hard to understand, you can approach someone in the group or a tutor to help.

In essence, even if a groupmember doesn't do a good job on presenting information to you, it shouldn't impact your education so much so to become detrimental. You should have gotten their resource to double check, and usually, if they're completely wrong, the facilitator will question them. Additionally, you have 5 other group members, and one of them has to have glanced at that topic as well. Strength in numbers, in this case.

Personally, I don't always use my group members' notes or resources because I either can't follow their train of thought, or I've found a better resource that is easier for me to go through (maybe even more reliable). It's really up to you how you want to use your group members, not to sound like a douche or anything. I also know people who never meet with their PBL group outside of scheduled PBL time and they do just fine.

Perhaps a con I failed to mention earlier was the fact that personalities may clash with PBL. If you have too many introverted individuals, or too many head-strong personalities, there can be conflict. Someone with the best idea may be too shy to put it forward or constantly talked over by someone else. Good thing: after the first block, you change group members. If you liked your first group and aren't comfortable with the way the second group's dynamics are working out, nobody is stopping you from sharing info with your first group.

By the end of the first block, a network of resource and notes sharing develops and the entire class is involved. I don't know if that was the intended goal. But that's the way it is! We have a class-wide study guide with input from several classmates. Very useful for reviewing before finals 🙂.

@Bunnity: Our anatomy course isn't just one semester; it's spread over 2 years. You go through the entire body in the first year (from what I understand), and then revisit it the second year, solidifying what you already know and strengthening areas of deficiency. What you focus on depends on the region of the body implicated in the cases. At this point, we've progressed from hindlimb, upwards, but I've heard that the 2nd years had progressed in the reverse order. We cover vasculature, innervation, basic topography, embryology, etc.

I've talked to the anatomy professors about only have 2 hrs/day in lab and they all gave me the same answer: repetition. It won't do any good to have you cram all the information into 4 months so you can forget it later.

But the assigned 4 hours in lab doesn't include self-directed study time. Remember when I mentioned that we don't have lecture from 9am-5pm? The times we're not in PBL or hitting the books, we spend in lab to go over histology and anatomy. I personally don't go into lab during the week outside of scheduled lab, but the weekends are when I sit there by myself or with my anatomy tutoring group and go through our specimens.



OMG. I write a lot.
 
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OMG. I write a lot.

If only we can write this much for our MCB papers!!!

Well, I've got nothing to add Nissan and TrocarKarin pretty much said it all.

The best advice I've gotten from the upperclassmen is to "not fight the process." Because it does work! The first few weeks will be horrible, Guaranteed! That's because you don't know what's going on and its like "trying to take a sip of water from a firehose while trying to climb to the top of Mt. Everest."
The process clicks for people at different times. It seems that after the first block, and after midterm exams, people assess how to change their studying habits if they need to. I definately learned to not sweat the small stuff and stick to learning about the major issues of the case (particularly Anatomy, physiology, and pathology). Like Nissan said, the groups generally split up the small learning issues and share the info. These are things that should take no longer than 15 minutes to find and 10 minutes to explain to your colleagues.
Feel free to PM me also if you have any specific questions.
 


@Bunnity: Our anatomy course isn't just one semester; it's spread over 2 years. You go through the entire body in the first year (from what I understand), and then revisit it the second year, solidifying what you already know and strengthening areas of deficiency. What you focus on depends on the region of the body implicated in the cases. At this point, we've progressed from hindlimb, upwards, but I've heard that the 2nd years had progressed in the reverse order. We cover vasculature, innervation, basic topography, embryology, etc.

I've talked to the anatomy professors about only have 2 hrs/day in lab and they all gave me the same answer: repetition. It won't do any good to have you cram all the information into 4 months so you can forget it later.
I think this makes total sense. My biggest criticism of the approach at Penn is you have to cram a ton of anatomical "geography" without much sense of how these things are relevant, all in a very short space of time.

The course coordinator admits that if we retain 40% of what they teach in this class, we are outstanding. That makes no sense to me.

I really like Western's approach here.
 
I think this makes total sense. My biggest criticism of the approach at Penn is you have to cram a ton of anatomical "geography" without much sense of how these things are relevant, all in a very short space of time.

The course coordinator admits that if we retain 40% of what they teach in this class, we are outstanding. That makes no sense to me.

I really like Western's approach here.
I have a question (sorry if it's a dumb one or it's been previously addressed). 😳 How does Penn do anatomy? I have the pdf with the core curriculum but I'm a little confused about the fall semester, quarter 3, and quarter 4 format. Is all your anatomy crammed into the first 3/4 of first year?
I just got accepted to Ohio State and their anatomy seems to be broken up by quarter during first year- fall (canine anatomy), winter (equine anatomy), and spring (food animal anatomy). However, Penn is my IS so I am just curious.
 
I have a question (sorry if it's a dumb one or it's been previously addressed). 😳 How does Penn do anatomy? I have the pdf with the core curriculum but I'm a little confused about the fall semester, quarter 3, and quarter 4 format. Is all your anatomy crammed into the first 3/4 of first year?
I just got accepted to Ohio State and their anatomy seems to be broken up by quarter during first year- fall (canine anatomy), winter (equine anatomy), and spring (food animal anatomy). However, Penn is my IS so I am just curious.

1st year is on a "modified" quarter system. Fall is a semester. All the classes start in late august and end in mid december.
Then after break we are on a quarter system will classes all starting early january and ending by mid march (winter quarter). Then spring quarter starts after break and finishes end of may.

Anatomy is the only class that "holds-over" from the fall semester. It is the first class that ends in the winter quarter (late feb). So you are correct, it is essentially 3/4 of the year.

The course itself is broken into 3 parts (roughly each one equivalent to a quarter if you'd like).
The first 6 weeks is dog anatomy (no head).
The next 6 weeks is large animal anatomy focused on horse and goat (no head). That is what just ended.
The last 6 weeks is ........ you got it , the head of the dog and horse (and goat I guess). Also the spinal cord, and for some reason the horse heart. Ends with 2 days on the chicken.

Of course we have various other animals thrown in (although mostly in a non-hands on method).

As I mentioned, many of us feel this class is a bit rushed. I would have preferred a full year. The first anatomy exam (on the dog ex head) was probably the most stressful for most of us in 1st year.
 
1st year is on a "modified" quarter system. Fall is a semester. All the classes start in late august and end in mid december.
Then after break we are on a quarter system will classes all starting early january and ending by mid march (winter quarter). Then spring quarter starts after break and finishes end of may.

Anatomy is the only class that "holds-over" from the fall semester. It is the first class that ends in the winter quarter (late feb). So you are correct, it is essentially 3/4 of the year.

The course itself is broken into 3 parts (roughly each one equivalent to a quarter if you'd like).
The first 6 weeks is dog anatomy (no head).
The next 6 weeks is large animal anatomy focused on horse and goat (no head). That is what just ended.
The last 6 weeks is ........ you got it , the head of the dog and horse (and goat I guess). Also the spinal cord, and for some reason the horse heart. Ends with 2 days on the chicken.

Of course we have various other animals thrown in (although mostly in a non-hands on method).

As I mentioned, many of us feel this class is a bit rushed. I would have preferred a full year. The first anatomy exam (on the dog ex head) was probably the most stressful for most of us in 1st year.
Thank you SOV! That makes a lot more sense than the printout I have. 🙂
 
- No required textbooks. Because there is so much freedom with what reputable source you can use to study, you will sometimes come up with conflicting or outdated information, or even information you're not ready to understand. Not all textbooks that you end up using has the information you're looking for. Therefore, I've become very very very very intimate with PubMed and SpringerLink and other online databases for my information.

Do you find these online resources to be the best? We have two weeks of PBL when we start school after break and I was wondering how helpful you found these and maybe what other resources you find useful?
 
Do you find these online resources to be the best? We have two weeks of PBL when we start school after break and I was wondering how helpful you found these and maybe what other resources you find useful?

Sometimes, online resources are a hit or a miss, so I can't say they're the best. I definitely use a combination of textbooks + databases.

I started using online databases mostly out of convenience. It's less time consuming to research multiple subjects at once by changing keywords with a simple keystroke than it is to lug out all of my and my roommate's (20+ some odd) textbooks and go through 5 chapters to find what I want. Additionally, vet textbooks seem to be more of a summary of the major concepts, which means more obscure info may only have 2 lines or 1 paragraph on it at most. You look on pubmed and find papers dedicated to it.

BUT! If you have solid textbooks that you know your way well around and know they satisfactorily answer your questions 70% of the time, I would stick to those. The danger with primary lit or scientific reviews is that once in a while, you'll come across papers that aren't reliable (e.g, study of protein diet on renal failure only had 5 dogs in its sample population, not chosen at random, blablabla) or are completely outdated, especially in fields that are quickly changing.

Still, it really depends on how you learn. I prefer textbooks, to be honest, but only if they were more convenient. If you already have a specific textbook list, I'm assuming your professors found those sources to be the most reliable (or the most efficient). I'd use PubMed, SpringerLink, ScienceDirect, etc. for supplemental information.
 
I think this makes total sense. My biggest criticism of the approach at Penn is you have to cram a ton of anatomical "geography" without much sense of how these things are relevant, all in a very short space of time.

The course coordinator admits that if we retain 40% of what they teach in this class, we are outstanding. That makes no sense to me.

I really like Western's approach here.

It sounds like MN has a similar anatomy program. We have only one semester of anatomy. You *will* see repetition! Don't worry about learning everything the first time around. Anatomy topics will come up again in other classes. 🙂
 
I get Western's school magazine every time they send it out. I will probably never go there but I am nosey about what goes on at that school, lol.
 
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