Pbl

[angiogenesis]

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Hi,

I'm in an undergrad Med course from Australia and our course uses the Problem Based Learning system.

Anyone other med schools use it ? What do you think of it ?

(PS - Not sure if this is the right place to post this. Mods please remove it if that's the case)

 

[DoctaJay]

Sure, plenty of medical schools are either all PBL or have some sort of PBL built into the curriculum. Its called Evidenced Based Medicine (EBM) at my school. Personally, I think its a waste of time since studies have shown that normal non-academic docs don't have time to analyze papers or even read journals like they want us to. But I guess medical schools have to teach you the ideal, so that something will be left after reality slowly whittles away at that idealistic education.

I think I should be a little clearer. I definitely see value in PBL, but just don't think that it is the wonderful gift that keeps on giving that alot of medical schools try to make it out to be.

 

[Haemulon]

Some people like PBL, and it is catching on at a number of schools. However I am more of an independant learner and like to just slug through more traditional material. Heck, I would prefer to show up on the first stay and receive a syllabus and a set of assigned readings with the instruction: "learn all of this by XYZ date.". Then test and get a new set of info to learn, followed by more tests etc ... (cumulative testing is fine by be, actually would be preferable so it is not all binge and purge).

 

[UCLAstudent]

PBL is one of those things that sounds great, in theory, when you're applying to med school. In reality, it's quite variable and can actually be a huge waste of time if your group is getting off track. I never really got much out of PBL --- I found it to be a very inefficient way of learning. I much prefer learning from a lecture or reading from a book/notes. However, some people really enjoy it and get a lot out of the group learning process. To each his own!

 

[SeventhSon]

It depends on a couple of factors. I have learned a HUGE amount in PBL when my small group leader is a good teacher. Usually, however, that is the exception rather than the rule. With an average/mediocre instructor I learn little to nothing.

Also, some small group leaders seem to be instructed to not say much and let us battle it out. I usually find this to be a huge waste of time as well.

 

[OncoCaP]

I like it. It's practical and interactive.

 

[nu2004]

i'm looking forward to it. i would have applied to the Lerner program if i had had more research.

 

[tacrum43]

We have PBL for about 1.5 hours per week at my school. It's okay. Sometimes it's kind of annoying when you have a killer test you need to focus on for the hard science classes. Other times it can be good because it helps tie things together. I guess I have mixed feelings about PBL. 😛

I don't think I could stand going to an all PBL school though. I would think it would be immensely painful, at least in the beginning, since you wouldn't know anything and would have to look it all up yourself.

 

[DrJT]

Angiogenesis,

I suspect I was in a very similar situation to you a few years ago 😉

Here is an interesting article from the MJA about PBL. I suspect there may be a little bit of "devil's advocate" going on in this piece.

Anyway, I thought PBL was probably a good thing, though it relied on people doing quite a bit of self-directed learning in order to generate useful discussions. It's also good for people to learn to work in groups, communicate well and tolerate conflicting ideas (anecdotally, of course).

The question of whether it compromises basic science knowledge is interesting. I wonder whether it is the accompanying changes to medical courses (i.e less didactic teaching, less anatomy teaching, fewer contact hours) that has this effect rather than PBL per se. There needs to be a balance between encouraging PBL and clinical application of knowledge and still covering the basic sciences I guess.

DrJT

 

[Slide]

I've had a few PBL sessions, and although they were interesting, I feel that PBL isn't really suitable for M1s because we simply don't have a good knowledge base. I can see it having some potential in M2 year though.

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

PBL is useful during clinical years when you've got some experience under your belt. Our medicine rotation does a combined didactic lecture/case presentation/PBL thing for med students weekly that's actually quite valuable I think.

First and second years, it's the biggest waste of time ever. Blind leading the blind and gunners trying to get ahead and impress everyone with their often flawed and limitd knowledge.

 

[psymedicus]

We have a modified version of PBL. Each session is linked to specific lectures/readings we are supposed to prepare for, then we have a mini-test, first done individually then discussed as a group. This is generally basic science. After that we are given some scenarios and answer questions based on our knowledge and what we can find from books/google etc. The questions are generally quite clinical, about diagnosis and treatment. It sounds vastly superior to PBL because we have a circumscribed scope and researching the case doesn't extend beyond class. Discussing questions with a team is a great way to figure out why an answer is right/wrong.

 

[Gut Shot]

Here is an interesting article from the MJA about PBL. I suspect there may be a little bit of "devil's advocate" going on in this piece.

There should be. The literature currently has a paucity of "contrary analysis" when it comes to PBL. Perhaps the honeymoon is starting to end.

Thanks.

 

[DoctaJay]

PBL is useful during clinical years when you've got some experience under your belt. Our medicine rotation does a combined didactic lecture/case presentation/PBL thing for med students weekly that's actually quite valuable I think.

First and second years, it's the biggest waste of time ever. Blind leading the blind and gunners trying to get ahead and impress everyone with their often flawed and limitd knowledge.

Ha, that pretty much sums it up. My group doesn't have any gunners (unless I'm one and just don't realize it 😀 ), but I can certainly see how PBL groups during M1 can end up like this.