PCOM or allopathic?

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As a native of Canada - the fact that physicians graduating from DO residencies is barred from licensing speaks great volumes....

Not true for all provinces... One can get licensed in Alberta, British Columbia, Mnitoba, New Brunswick, Newfoundland, NW Territories, Quebec and Yukon Territory with AOA residency.

Only Nova Scotia and Ontario require ACGME training. Saskatchewan and Prince Edward Island don't recognize DOs.
 
As a native of Canada - the fact that physicians graduating from DO residencies is barred from licensing speaks great volumes....

As a native of the United States of America - the fact that physicians graduating from DO residencies are virtually indistinguishable (i.e. equal practice rights) from their MD counterparts speaks the greatest volumes...

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America>>>Canada
 
As a native of Canada - the fact that physicians graduating from DO residencies is barred from licensing speaks great volumes....

Really?

CANADIAN OSTEOPATHIC ASSOCIATION

"I hold an osteopathic diploma or certificate granted from a school outside of North America. Can I register to practice osteopathy in Canada?

No. Only those graduates from COA/AOA accredited colleges of osteopathic medicine meet the qualifications and are eligible for registration with the provincial colleges of physicians and surgeons."
 
As a native of Canada - the fact that physicians graduating from DO residencies is barred from licensing speaks great volumes....

I'd do your research next time unless you want to get flamed.

Or maybe you're just a troll, either way I felt the post was ignorant enough to comment on.
 
Really?

CANADIAN OSTEOPATHIC ASSOCIATION

"I hold an osteopathic diploma or certificate granted from a school outside of North America. Can I register to practice osteopathy in Canada?

N😵nly those graduates from COA/AOA accredited colleges of osteopathic medicine meet the qualifications and are eligible for registration with the provincial colleges of physicians and surgeons."

That's an OMM only license. Please read before posting, in order to ensure no flaming blowback. That is all.
 
That's an OMM only license. Please read before posting, in order to ensure no flaming blowback. That is all.

Posted before proof reading. The question above that on the link is probably better suited for the discussion. My apologies.

The meaning and facts presented in the link provided still hold true regardless of my fast posting in this thread, DO's practice in Canada. Simple mistake, that could have been noticed if you clicked on the link. Attitudes not needed, thank you, have a nice day.
 
Read my actual post please - I stated graduating from DO *residencies* are barred from licensing in most of Canada.

If you went to DO school, but did an Allopathic residency then you would be eligible with the exception of a few provinces....
 
Read my actual post please - I stated graduating from DO *residencies* are barred from licensing in most of Canada.

If you went to DO school, but did an Allopathic residency then you would be eligible with the exception of a few provinces....

Are you a troll? How many times do we have to post the same thing? Do you consider Nova Scotia, Ontario, Saskatchewan and Prince Edward "most of Canada"?

Actually you CAN get licensed with AOA (DO) residency in most of Canada!


One can get licensed in Alberta, British Columbia, Mnitoba, New Brunswick, Newfoundland, NW Territories, Quebec and Yukon Territory with AOA residency.

Only Nova Scotia and Ontario require ACGME training. Saskatchewan and Prince Edward Island don't recognize DOs.

Also who cares about Canada? Since when did Canada became the measure of medical competency?
 
Actually you CAN get licensed with AOA (DO) residency in most of Canada!

The above caused me to look a little closer at the link I provided. It matches bala's statement pretty much exact.

Also states that Nova Scotia recognizes U.S.-educated osteopathic physicians as of 2002, not sure if that means AOA resident trained or not.

So it looks like all of Canada excepts DO residency training except possibly Ontario.
 
Are you a troll? How many times do we have to post the same thing? Do you consider Nova Scotia, Ontario, Saskatchewan and Prince Edward "most of Canada"?

Actually you CAN get licensed with AOA (DO) residency in most of Canada!




Also who cares about Canada? Since when did Canada became the measure of medical competency?


If you are a DO graduate that completed DO residency (applies to vast majority of you) - you can ONLY practice in 2 Canadian provinces - Manitoba and Newfoundland - happens to be 2 of the poorest and barren provinces.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Osteopathic_Medicine - Scroll down the page..

Other provinces REQUIRES you to do either additional training that is not required for your MD counterpart or outright disqualifies you from practice.


What is my main point? DO physicians are widely viewed as inferior or incomparable to their MD counterparts in almost all other industrialized nations that has a shortage of physicians (Almost all of Europe, Canada, Australia...etc etc) for a reason - now what could that reason be?
 
If you are a DO graduate that completed DO residency (applies to vast majority of you) - you can ONLY practice in 2 Canadian provinces - Manitoba and Newfoundland - happens to be 2 of the poorest and barren provinces.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Osteopathic_Medicine - Scroll down the page..

Other provinces REQUIRES you to do either additional training that is not required for your MD counterpart or outright disqualifies you from practice.


What is my main point? DO physicians are widely viewed as inferior or incomparable to their MD counterparts in almost all other industrialized nations that has a shortage of physicians (Almost all of Europe, Canada, Australia...etc etc) for a reason - now what could that reason be?

Because guys don't like you?
 
If you are a DO graduate that completed DO residency (applies to vast majority of you) - you can ONLY practice in 2 Canadian provinces - Manitoba and Newfoundland - happens to be 2 of the poorest and barren provinces.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Osteopathic_Medicine - Scroll down the page..

Other provinces REQUIRES you to do either additional training that is not required for your MD counterpart or outright disqualifies you from practice.


What is my main point? DO physicians are widely viewed as inferior or incomparable to their MD counterparts in almost all other industrialized nations that has a shortage of physicians (Almost all of Europe, Canada, Australia...etc etc) for a reason - now what could that reason be?

Below is copied from your Wiki proof:


Canada (varies by province)

Alberta Unlimited Requires at least 2 years of GME accredited by the ACGME or AOA and must have passed the Universities Coordinating Council Exam, a basic sciences exam, and have passed all three parts of the LMCC.

British Columbia Unlimited Requires at least 1 year of GME approved by the AOA or the ACGME, completed at least 1 year of GME in Canada, passed all three parts of the LMCC.

Manitoba Unlimited US license recognized.

New Brunswick Unlimited Requires at least 2 years of GME approved by the AOA or the ACGME and have passed all 3 parts of the LMCC. Reciprocity pathway for DOs with a Maine license.

Newfoundland Unlimited The Medical Act 2011 allows full licensure of osteopathic physicians, both for the country’s full registry & its educational registry.

NW Territories Unlimited US license recognized.

Nova Scotia Unlimited Requires a Canadian or ACGME residency.

Ontario Unlimited Requires a Canadian or ACGME residency.

Prince Edward Island Restricted No provision for licensing US-trained DOs.

Quebec Unlimited Requires 1 year of GME approved by the AOA or ACGME, 1
year of GME in Quebec passed the written, oral and clinical board examination of the

College of Family Physicians of Canada and must speak French fluently.

Saskatchewan Limited OMM only.

Yukon Territory Unlimited US license recognized.


Even your Wiki proof disproves what your trying to say.
 
If you are a DO graduate that completed DO residency (applies to vast majority of you) - you can ONLY practice in 2 Canadian provinces - Manitoba and Newfoundland - happens to be 2 of the poorest and barren provinces.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Osteopathic_Medicine - Scroll down the page..

Other provinces REQUIRES you to do either additional training that is not required for your MD counterpart or outright disqualifies you from practice.


What is my main point? DO physicians are widely viewed as inferior or incomparable to their MD counterparts in almost all other industrialized nations that has a shortage of physicians (Almost all of Europe, Canada, Australia...etc etc) for a reason - now what could that reason be?

OK it is official, you're a troll...

1) Not that it makes a difference in our discussion but to get your facts straight: The vast majority of us do NOT complete AOA residencies and actually the ratio is roughly 50/50 (esp. when you consider dually accredited programs). Only 35% of our graduates matched AOA this year some of which are dually accredited programs. Even if you assume that all who scramble, scramble AOA (which is NOT true) then, still about (or slightly more than) 50% complete ACGME or dually accredited training.

2) Speaking of Europe, most of the major/industrialized countries in Europe that have provisions for DOs (except France and Norway) treat DOs the same as US MDs.

http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-a.../Pages/international-practice-rights-map.aspx

3) FYI, no matter what credentials you hold, if you don't have EU citizenship, they won't even consider your application in Europe

4) I don't know nor do I care to know what is required for US MDs in Canada. However, as stated for the nth time in the past 2 days, most of the Canadian provinces recognize AOA residency training (except the 4 mentioned in my post).

5) One reason for different recognition in different countries is that even in the US, DOs currently only comprise less than 10% (~8-9%) of the physician population. Out of which only a fraction are interested or have been interested in practicing in other countries. They are not going to pass new laws in some random country because 1-2 DOs have been interested in practicing there. Some of these countries have never had a DO wanting/applying to practice there before. Most countries have never heard of DOs, so it is not because of the quality of our education because as we all know any US residency training is superior to pretty much any other country including Canada.

Having said all of that, if your main goal is to practice in Canada or any other country please do not waste an American seat in our schools or residencies (which are US tax payer funded) and go back to your country to learn medicine.

Now, next time you decide to post make sure you have accurate data/info!
 
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And to settle and END this argument (Source: Canadian Osteopathic Association):

http://www.osteopathic.ca/Documents/Osteopathic Practice in Canada.doc

Introduction:

Osteopathic Medicine (Osteopathy) has a long history in Canada, with the appearance of the first Canadian DO in 1899. The Ontario Osteopathic Association was chartered in 1901, the Western Canada Osteopathic Association in 1923, and the Canadian Osteopathic Association in 1926.

In Canada, as in the United States, there is no national medical license. Each province is free to establish its own standards for the registration of physicians, and for recognizing the equivalency of foreign-issued diplomas. There has not been full reciprocity of practice rights across the country for Canadian trained M.D.'s, let alone American trained M.D.'s or D.O.'s.

National Medical Organizations of Importance to D.O.'s:

Before reviewing the provincial situation, it is helpful to briefly review those national organizations that are of primary importance to osteopathic physicians in Canada.

1. Medical Council of Canada (MCC)
The MCC is primarily responsible for establishing and maintaining a certification process that in theory, should allow inter-provincial reciprocity of accredited physicians. All Canadian medical school graduates complete the two part MCC qualifying examination. In this regard, it has a role similar to the USMLE or COMLEX process. American-trained D.O.'s have had access to the MCC examinations since 1991. MCC certification is a requirement for licensure in many, but not all provinces. Some provinces require that all foreign trained physicians write these examinations, including American trained M.D.'s. The provinces of Quebec, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Ontario, Alberta, and British Columbia all now accept the COMLEX examinations in lieu of the MCC examination for full licensure.

2. College of Family Physicians of Canada (CFPC)
The CFPC is responsible for accrediting family medicine residencies in Canada, and certifying graduates of Canadian family medicine residency programs through an examination process. American-trained D.O.'s have completed family medicine residencies in Canada and achieved CFPC certification (CCFP). At the moment, graduates of American osteopathic medical schools are eligible to apply for family medicine residency programs in the provinces of Ontario, British Columbia, and Alberta. Graduates of ACGME accredited family medicine residency programs may also challenge the examinations of the CFPC.


3. Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada (RCPSC)
The Royal College has the same role for all other specialists that the CFPC has for family physicians. In 2005 the Royal College granted recognition to the American osteopathic medical degree. At the moment, American trained D.O.'s are eligible to apply for specialty medical residency programs in Alberta, British Columbia, and Ontario. The Royal College does not have a role in accrediting non-Canadian residency programs. Whether a specialist applicant requires Royal College certification for practice or other foreign accreditation (eg ACGME or AOA) would be acceptable for registration is a provincial matter as well as the local hospital regulations.

Provincial Review:

In Canada, the role of the State Medical Board is approximated by the provincial "College of Physicians and Surgeons", which is responsible for physician registration and discipline. The standards for physician registration are established by the provincial ministry of health, but with significant influence from the respective provincial College.

From West to East, the provinces are:

British Columbia:
There are two pathways for D.O. registration in British Columbia. The first recognizes the COMLEX examinations and two years of AOA certified post-graduate training. The D.O. has a limited license, and is restricted to a practice of musculoskeletal medicine. This pathway is primarily intended for the D.O. that wishes to establish an OMT focused practice. The second pathway requires completion of the MCC, COMLEX, USMLE, FLEX, or NBME examinations and two years of a ACGME residency program. The D.O. will then receive an unrestricted license.

Alberta:
The D.O. candidate is required to complete the MCC, COMLEX, or USMLE examinations. AOA certified residencies are recognized.

Saskatchewan:
A board exists separate from the provincial College for the registration of D.O.'s, although it has not been active for many years. D.O.'s are registered by the board to practice "osteopathy", although that is not clearly defined.

Manitoba:
As of 2002, American-trained D.O.'s are eligible for registration in Manitoba.

Ontario:
Since 2003, the College of Physicians and Surgeons have recognized the American DO degree as equivalent to that of an American MD. Additionally, the COMLEX examinations are recognized if performed after 2004 when the PE component was introduced with part II. The same criteria apply to the USMLE. ACGME accredited residencies are recognized although AOA accredited residencies are not. Additionally, there is a "Practice Assessment" pathway for applicants with at least five years of clinical practice experience.


Quebec:
American-trained D.O.'s have been eligible for registration in Quebec for approximately 30 years, although the requirement that the candidate pass a French language proficiency examination has had a negative impact. Additionally, the Candidate must complete one year of post-graduate training in the province, although this can be at the fellowship level. COMLEX examinations are accepted. MCC certification and Royal college certification are not necessary. Unfortunately, the title protection that exists for M.D.'s does not exist for D.O.'s with the result that the title use is not restricted in that province.

New Brunswick:
D.O.'s are eligible for full registration in New Brunswick. One pathway extends reciprocity to a D.O. with Maine licensure. COMLEX examinations are accepted.

Nova Scotia:
As of 2002, full registration for D.O.'s is extended in the same way as for an American trained M.D. COMLEX examinations are accepted.

Prince Edward Island:
At the moment, PEI is the only Canadian province without a current or anticipated registration pathway for American-trained Osteopathic physicians.

Newfoundland:
As of 2002, the College has committed itself to seeing that the government establishes a registration pathway for American-trained D.O.'s, although it is anticipated that this may take a couple of years.
Not part of original document: [This has been changed through The Medical Act 2011 which allows full licensure of osteopathic physicians]

Territories (Yukon, Northwest, Nunavut):
In most instances, the Territories will grant registration to any physician that qualifies for licensure in any other province.

Armed Services:
American-trained D.O.'s are eligible for service with the Canadian Armed Services, including scholarship opportunities, recruitment bonuses.

Disclaimer:
The information presented in this summary does not necessarily reflect the details of current registration requirements in any province. These requirements change with time, and full understanding of the current requirements require communication with the office of the Registrar of the College of Physicians and Surgeons for the province(s) of interest.
 
If you are a DO graduate that completed DO residency (applies to vast majority of you) - you can ONLY practice in 2 Canadian provinces - Manitoba and Newfoundland - happens to be 2 of the poorest and barren provinces.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Osteopathic_Medicine - Scroll down the page..

Other provinces REQUIRES you to do either additional training that is not required for your MD counterpart or outright disqualifies you from practice.


What is my main point? DO physicians are widely viewed as inferior or incomparable to their MD counterparts in almost all other industrialized nations that has a shortage of physicians (Almost all of Europe, Canada, Australia...etc etc) for a reason - now what could that reason be?
Regardless of all the accusations of being a troll, I couldn't help but think of a quote from my film studies professor in college that answers your question....

"The things we say we don't like are usually the things we understand the least." 🙂
 
university of arizona (or allopathic in general.) save yourself from all the politicking and hoops you have to jump thru to be on the same level as your MD counterparts later on, plus UoA is pretty sweet. also agree with going allopathic for financial reasons like a previous poster pointed out. DO schools are expensive.

Anyone care to explain what these extra hoops are the everyone seems to be talking about that DO's have to jump through and MDs dont??

Thanks!
 
Not as competitive for allopathic residencies, especially upper tiers. All private institutions for the most part so a larger debt-load than public allopathic institutions. Depending on residency selection, if you do an AOA residency you need to remain a member of the AOA to keep board certification. OMM isn't everyone's forte and many do not like it.
 
Question:

How do DO schools do match day? Is it for the AOA match only? It seems like some schools have a lot of people doing the ACGME match; do they have a separate match day for that?
 
Question:

How do DO schools do match day? Is it for the AOA match only? It seems like some schools have a lot of people doing the ACGME match; do they have a separate match day for that?

My school didn't have a match day. Which was alright by me, since I would have bagged it anyway if they did.
 
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