DocGina

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I'm trying to decide between PCOM and LECOM. PCOM has a well-tenured program, it's closer to my family, but it's big $$$. LECOM is cheaper, has the Problem Based Learning curriculum, however it's relatively new so it's not as reputable and it's over 6 hours away from my family.

Your comments/suggestions are greatly appreciated! Thank you!
 

robo77

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Stop comparing good schools to LECOM, money is not everything!!!!!

DocGina said:
I'm trying to decide between PCOM and LECOM. PCOM has a well-tenured program, it's closer to my family, but it's big $$$. LECOM is cheaper, has the Problem Based Learning curriculum, however it's relatively new so it's not as reputable and it's over 6 hours away from my family.

Your comments/suggestions are greatly appreciated! Thank you!
 

zinc

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Chrysanthemum said:
lol why do you think pcom is so much better than lecom?
take it from a pbl lecomer,,,,go to pcom or the florida lecom

ps no furher comment
 

Tams

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PCOM beats LECOM inside out... going to LECOM is like being sent to a concentration camp with all the rules and regulations they have....
 

Lindyhopper

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Tams said:
PCOM beats LECOM inside out... going to LECOM is like being sent to a concentration camp with all the rules and regulations they have....
I've heard :scared: references to this in the past. Can anyone elaborate. Does the same hold true for the Fla campus?
 

annh31

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The dress code is the only (annoying) rule I know about. But, comparing Erie to Philly - Philly wins hands down. I vote PCOM too.
 

Tams

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Lindyhopper said:
I've heard :scared: references to this in the past. Can anyone elaborate. Does the same hold true for the Fla campus?

LECOM is run by the CIA or something. Here are all their stringent and ultra-conservative rules: Dress Code (for guys, dress shirt,tie, dress pants, dress shoes to class!!), cadavers already dissected, no food/drink in class or Anywhere in the building, daily attendance (so you have to sit in assigned seat or risk being marked absent). It's like going back to high school. They have cameras watching you to make sure you are wearing a tie and are not eating! If it weren't for the rules, it'd be a better place. The place has a very sterile feel to it and is comparable to being at a concentration camp.
The entire med school is in ONE building. The gym is a joke.

I am surprised that they are even accredited. :mad:

LECOM is at the bottom of all osteo schools in the USA.

AND one more thing: their acceptance deposit is a WHOPPING ONE THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS!
They are a backup school of last resort for many applicants. (including myself)
 

bcruize

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I got into PCOM yesterday- a big relief. I can't even imagine you are debating PCOM vs. LECOM. After interviewing there last week I almost left 30 min into the presentation. Independent study? you have got to be kidding me. And PBL with no screening process? are you telling me a 22 yo kid stair out of undergrad could understand everything by case study? There is a reason that LECOM is the ONLY school in the entire world that "teaches" a 100% PBL pathway- because it is not feasible to create a competent physician. I was shocked to even be there, it almost felt like a community college. I also didn't even see a practicing physician during my entire interview day. One of the interviewers was a RETIRED DO and he was not in my interview group. By far the strangest place/interview I have been on. I actually decided that if that was the only school in the US I got into I would goto ROSS down in the carribean- got in months ago as my back-up school- but dont' need it now. I am actually telling my friends and family to check and see if their doctors in the future went to LECOM and if they did then to seeka different physican. The only consoling fact is that LECOM has only been around for 14 years and that means that there are a maximum of 3640 possible physicans that graduated from there- and prob 1/2 of them have already lost thrie liscences. I know this sounds extreme but it was the worst experience I have ever had when dealing with medical school interviews.
brian
 

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bcruize said:
I got into PCOM yesterday- a big relief. I can't even imagine you are debating PCOM vs. LECOM. After interviewing there last week I almost left 30 min into the presentation. Independent study? you have got to be kidding me. And PBL with no screening process? are you telling me a 22 yo kid stair out of undergrad could understand everything by case study? There is a reason that LECOM is the ONLY school in the entire world that "teaches" a 100% PBL pathway- because it is not feasible to create a competent physician. I was shocked to even be there, it almost felt like a community college. I also didn't even see a practicing physician during my entire interview day. One of the interviewers was a RETIRED DO and he was not in my interview group. By far the strangest place/interview I have been on. I actually decided that if that was the only school in the US I got into I would goto ROSS down in the carribean- got in months ago as my back-up school- but dont' need it now. I am actually telling my friends and family to check and see if their doctors in the future went to LECOM and if they did then to seeka different physican. The only consoling fact is that LECOM has only been around for 14 years and that means that there are a maximum of 3640 possible physicans that graduated from there- and prob 1/2 of them have already lost thrie liscences. I know this sounds extreme but it was the worst experience I have ever had when dealing with medical school interviews.
brian
I hate to see ignorant comments like the ones spoken here!! How can you say that someone trained at an accredited school should be questioned b/c of what school they chose. Lecom has produced good doctors and will continue to do so. Check residency websites and you will see that there has been Lecom grads at Duke, Kansas, etc..... And about the PBL and Independent study who needs to sit in class all day to be a good doctor. Plus, everyone I know that goes to M.D. programs and sit in class all day play video games on their computer. Some people aren't made to sit in class all day. Bottom line the school doesn't matter you and your board scores matter. Ignorance is not a virtue!!
 

bcruize

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all I gave is my opinion. In regards to the PBL and independent study- I asked my interviewers if there were any other schools that had those pathways and they thought for a while and said that everyother school had phased it out or were "shying away" from it. Everyone is different and yes they are accreditted for now- so they do meet the minimum standards. Everyone has to make their own decision regarding where to go, I just think that the future of this schoo lis in question. From the DO and MDs that I have talked to LECOM does not have a great reputation- the least repected out of the DO schools. It is just my opinion.
brian
 

(nicedream)

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Tams said:
LECOM is run by the CIA or something. Here are all their stringent and ultra-conservative rules: Dress Code (for guys, dress shirt,tie, dress pants, dress shoes to class!!), cadavers already dissected, no food/drink in class or Anywhere in the building, daily attendance (so you have to sit in assigned seat or risk being marked absent). It's like going back to high school. They have cameras watching you to make sure you are wearing a tie and are not eating! If it weren't for the rules, it'd be a better place. The place has a very sterile feel to it and is comparable to being at a concentration camp.
The entire med school is in ONE building. The gym is a joke.

I am surprised that they are even accredited. :mad:

LECOM is at the bottom of all osteo schools in the USA.

AND one more thing: their acceptance deposit is a WHOPPING ONE THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS!
They are a backup school of last resort for many applicants. (including myself)
Yeah, wow, dresscode? You're right, that is like a concentration camp. I noticed in the photos from Auschwitz the prisoners were wearing a lot of J. Crew. Give me a break - guess you never went to private school. :rolleyes:

Cadavers already dissected? It's called prosection, look it up. It avoids the wasted time of cutting away fat, and focuses on the important parts of the anatomy.

No food/drink anywhere in the building? Try the cafeteria, water fountains, and easily sneaked snacks in the PBL rooms.

Daily attendance? Well, not if you're in PBL, which FL campus is.

LECOM at the bottom of all osteo schools in US? According to what, the Tams Osteopathic School Ranking?
 

(nicedream)

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bcruize said:
I got into PCOM yesterday- a big relief. I can't even imagine you are debating PCOM vs. LECOM. After interviewing there last week I almost left 30 min into the presentation. Independent study? you have got to be kidding me. And PBL with no screening process? are you telling me a 22 yo kid stair out of undergrad could understand everything by case study? There is a reason that LECOM is the ONLY school in the entire world that "teaches" a 100% PBL pathway- because it is not feasible to create a competent physician. I was shocked to even be there, it almost felt like a community college. I also didn't even see a practicing physician during my entire interview day. One of the interviewers was a RETIRED DO and he was not in my interview group. By far the strangest place/interview I have been on. I actually decided that if that was the only school in the US I got into I would goto ROSS down in the carribean- got in months ago as my back-up school- but dont' need it now. I am actually telling my friends and family to check and see if their doctors in the future went to LECOM and if they did then to seeka different physican. The only consoling fact is that LECOM has only been around for 14 years and that means that there are a maximum of 3640 possible physicans that graduated from there- and prob 1/2 of them have already lost thrie liscences. I know this sounds extreme but it was the worst experience I have ever had when dealing with medical school interviews.
brian

You obviously haven't started medical school. It's ludicrous that you premeds feel qualified to make such strong judgements of schools based on your f*cking interviews, are you joking? You have no comprehension of how PBL works if you think you are supposed to go into it with the knowledge of what's happening in the cases. That's the point - you learn it as you go. And thus you learn more than what you learn in lecture because it is clinical. If you think you'll learn more listening to a professor read a ppt to you, go for it. You'll soon realize it all comes down to what you read, and last I checked the books for PBL and what you'll be using are the same. Your whopping 4 hrs spent at the school don't make you an expert.
 

allendo

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How is the future of the school in question???? All schools have good and bad students regardless of where you go. I know a girl that goes to UT Houston right now that has PBL classes just like the ones at LECOM!!! Hmmmm Hmmmmm Hmmmmmm How can you say we are the bottom of the barrel?? All schools were new at some time and PCOM just opened a new Georgia branch so I guess the same could be said about them!!
 

bcruize

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I agree that rankings are highly subjective and again everyone needs to decide for themselves where is best for them and maybe I was a little harsh in expressing my concerns regarding the pathways at LECOM. It is an accreddited school that to my knowledge is NOT under review, I just find it hard to beleive that 100 % PBL after anatomy and OMM is the right way togo. I think it should be a integral part of any program but 100 % is concerning to me. As far as physicians being competent if they pass their boards I think we all know that is not the case. Tests- any test - will test approx 20-30% of the total information studied. Idependent study program may work well for some people for other profesisons but I am not comfortable knowing that my physician went to "home school". PBL does force the student ot think clinically from the start but I believe without a firm foundation it won't be a complete education. Again I haven't started medicla school- I am 28, have been a Physical Therapist Assistant for over 5 years- with extensive interaction with MDs DOs and have been taking classes at various colleges over the years. The original post asked for help with deciding PCOM vs. LECOM. I gave my opinion. also I thought the purpose of the interview was to get an impression of the school and to make a decision. Regardless I think any medical school interviews should include some interaction with graduates or atleast a physician in the area.
 

bcruize

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the dress code is a non issue- as well as the reg policies about the building- also prosection is a very popular tech at alot of schools and I agree that it saves valuable time.
 

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bcruize said:
I got into PCOM yesterday- a big relief. I can't even imagine you are debating PCOM vs. LECOM. After interviewing there last week I almost left 30 min into the presentation. Independent study? you have got to be kidding me. And PBL with no screening process? are you telling me a 22 yo kid stair out of undergrad could understand everything by case study? There is a reason that LECOM is the ONLY school in the entire world that "teaches" a 100% PBL pathway- because it is not feasible to create a competent physician. I was shocked to even be there, it almost felt like a community college. I also didn't even see a practicing physician during my entire interview day. One of the interviewers was a RETIRED DO and he was not in my interview group. By far the strangest place/interview I have been on. I actually decided that if that was the only school in the US I got into I would goto ROSS down in the carribean- got in months ago as my back-up school- but dont' need it now. I am actually telling my friends and family to check and see if their doctors in the future went to LECOM and if they did then to seeka different physican. The only consoling fact is that LECOM has only been around for 14 years and that means that there are a maximum of 3640 possible physicans that graduated from there- and prob 1/2 of them have already lost thrie liscences. I know this sounds extreme but it was the worst experience I have ever had when dealing with medical school interviews.
brian

Independent study ends up being a good option for some students. I am at PCOM and attended only a select number of lectures. I would pick and choose the lectures that I found would be most useful. So, although not formally "Independent", this is pretty much what my first two years were.

And as far as PBL is concerned, I know that the COMLEX scores tend to be higher since you are dealing with cases nearly from the beginnning of school.
I think that PBL allows the student to approach the cases as if they are the Dr. What a great idea. You will find that to adjust from the classroom to the wards is often difficult.

A patient doesn't present to you with choices A thru E written on a piece of paper and hand it to you and say, "Based on my symptoms, which one do I have?" But rather you must be able to come up with these on your own.

Believe me, I have experienced LECOM and PCOM first hand. I can tell you that LECOM is run a lot tighter than PCOM. However, to say that they do any less of a job in preparing you for life as a phyisican is ridiculous.

So, in my opinion, I would choose PCOM.

However, to choose LECOM you would not be making a mistake. Look at both schools and list the pros and cons to each. It is at that point that you'll find your answer.

To those with any specific questions PM me.

Chisel
PCOM MSIII

PS- If not already in med school or a practicing physician, I suggest that you watch what you say in reference to the level of training a particular school gives. It is difficult to be a physcian. And it is just as difficult to be a school that has trained physician's since 1992. If LECOM was not doing their job, they would not be around. Period. Speak out of experience in the future. Otherwise you end up sounding pretty ignorant.
 

Chisel

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Also, PBL cases are used to facilitate the students to begin to study a particular topic.

It is the students, with the help of the faculty working with the group, to determine what parts of the case are the topics that they need to read in the pertinent textbooks.

When you get some experience in school and rotations you''ll see how valuable case presentations can be both in the real world and for the COMLEX.

Chisel
 

bcruize

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point taken chisel.
I think I just didn't have a positive interview experience and that is the only impression I have of the school, other than research. Complete PBL still seems strange to me and suspect if they are the only school with that complete pathway- but I am talking from theory not experience. To each their own.
 

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Well I can honestly say that I dont know much about either school, but my family doctor attended LECOM's osteopathic medical school and he is the best, most knowledgeable doctor I've ever had. I have personally heard great things about LECOM.
 

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bcruize said:
point taken chisel.
I think I just didn't have a positive interview experience and that is the only impression I have of the school, other than research. Complete PBL still seems strange to me and suspect if they are the only school with that complete pathway- but I am talking from theory not experience. To each their own.
100 % PBL is certainly non-traditional. Other schools not doing the same thing is not indicative of its efficacy. For one thing, this is the first year of LECOM-FL (the 100% PBL curriculum you refer to), so if other schools were to duplicate the format it wouldn't occur for some time. Secondly, even with great success you would not see duplication on the part of other schools. For one thing, lecture format is perfectly successful as well, and for another medical education is steeped in tradition, and schools are loath to make such broad and deep changes. On top of that, it's not really 100% PBL. Anatomy, histology, embryology, neuroanatomy, geriatrics, public health, health management, ethics, OMM, clinical exam etc are taught in lecture.
 

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I'm glad to see some people see how PBL can be helpful. True, you still take core lectures and continue to do so until clinicals. The PBL doesn't take presedence until the second year. I chose PBL b/c I wanted to learn medicine that is presented to me in a clinical type setting. I feel that sitting in lecture would be a waste of my time considering the notes are on the net. As Osteopaths we must stick together!!
 

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i just found this post today and i'm shocked how some of you would say that LECOM produces inferior doctors. the head of the peds dept in my dad's hospital (large teaching hospital for one of the top MD schools) spoke very highly of LECOM when i told him that i was accepted there. he said that residents who graduated from LECOM are always amongst his best. that alone says a lot about the quality of doctors that LECOM produces....inferior??? not by a long shot!!

yes, the dress-code is kind of a dumb thing but to say that the school stinks because of a couple of rules is ridiculous. they may be annoying but i'm sure you get used to them, especially if you attended private schools before like i have.

also, you stated that schools are shying away from PBL. you're just completely WRONG! i am in drexel's post-bacc program now and I know that they recently (within 10 years or so) started problem based learning (they call it PIL--program for integrated learning). they have even incorporated a lot of problem-based cases into the lecture based pathway. why would drexel university (a top notch MD school with a great reputation) integrate some PBL into their lectures? answer--it allows the students to start to think as doctors rather than just memorization machines. i highly doubt that you can say that they are producing inferior doctors because they have PBL.

my comments aren't directed at any one individual but mainly as a rebuttal for the negative comments about LECOM.
 

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mrm1682 said:
i just found this post today and i'm shocked how some of you would say that LECOM produces inferior doctors. the head of the peds dept in my dad's hospital (large teaching hospital for one of the top MD schools) spoke very highly of LECOM when i told him that i was accepted there. he said that residents who graduated from LECOM are always amongst his best. that alone says a lot about the quality of doctors that LECOM produces....inferior??? not by a long shot!!

yes, the dress-code is kind of a dumb thing but to say that the school stinks because of a couple of rules is ridiculous. they may be annoying but i'm sure you get used to them, especially if you attended private schools before like i have.

also, you stated that schools are shying away from PBL. you're just completely WRONG! i am in drexel's post-bacc program now and I know that they recently (within 10 years or so) started problem based learning (they call it PIL--program for integrated learning). they have even incorporated a lot of problem-based cases into the lecture based pathway. why would drexel university (a top notch MD school with a great reputation) integrate some PBL into their lectures? answer--it allows the students to start to think as doctors rather than just memorization machines. i highly doubt that you can say that they are producing inferior doctors because they have PBL.

my comments aren't directed at any one individual but mainly as a rebuttal for the negative comments about LECOM.
And they all said AMEN!! Thanks alot that was a great post.
 

bcruize

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Maybe I wasn't given an accurate picture of PBL. At the interview the interviewers explained the pathway as anatomy and OMM as the ONLY lecture discussion classes those students had, for the remainder of the education small groups with case studies were used to facilitate learning. There wasn't a detailed description or mention of any other traditional classes. They also said they had the pathway in place now for 5 years. Meaning that only 2 classes had an opportunity to graduate. They didn't give ANY percentages or projected test scores to back up the program and were extremely defensive when I asked how those students performed when compared the the traditional staudent at LECOM. That was my first question so dont think I put them on the defensive by how the question was asked. I would think a school presenting a non-traditional approach would want to explain it as well as possible and have some research to back it up. Maybe they do and it just wasn't presented to me. That would be some good feedback for the admissions committee. Also no one else thought it was wierd that I never spoke with an DO during the interview?
 

allendo

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I understand how you feel. I was a bit confused about the pathway also but I contacted a couple of students in the pathway and they told me their likes and dislikes. When I interviewed It was a D.O. and two PhD's. I have been told that the PBL and LDP are comparable on boards. Some state that PBL has an advantage at the beginning of clinicals for maybe a week or so thats it.
 

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The PBL students have a significantly higher pass rate than the LDP students at LECOM.
And yes, mrm1682 is right, PBL is not being "shied away from", in fact it is being implemented more and more. Read any literature on medical education and PBL will be discussed as an up-and-coming curricular method.
 

eldarion3141

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Tams said:
LECOM is run by the CIA or something. Here are all their stringent and ultra-conservative rules: Dress Code (for guys, dress shirt,tie, dress pants, dress shoes to class!!). They have cameras watching you to make sure you are wearing a tie and are not eating! If it weren't for the rules, it'd be a better place. The place has a very sterile feel to it and is comparable to being at a concentration camp.
The entire med school is in ONE building. The gym is a joke.
First: Dress Code- you will eventually have to dress like a doctor (ie dress
shirt,tie, dress pants, dress shoes to work!) so LECOM tries to instill a
proffessional attitude from the begining.
Cameras: If you paid millions of dollars for a new medical school in 1992,
would you want exhausted medical students spilling coffee all over the
carpets?
The Rules: Once again, the workplace has rules, why not try and instill them
early so you don't embarass yourself and your school while on clinicals.
you wouldn't go into an appointment with a patient chomping on a donut
and slurping coffee would you?
The "sterile feel": This is something about LECOM that i found unsettling, and
I asked a student about it, and they just looked at me and said, "yeah,
I know what you mean, kinda feels like a hospital doesn't it?" And
seeing as hospitals are where doctors practice, i figured this was
another way for LECOM to acclimatize you to be a better proffesional.
One Building: Sure, LECOM could have built seperate buildings, but Erie
winters are known to be windy and cold, and would you want to walk
around more than you would have to outside?
LECOM only has one building for a reason, it's to prevent the med
students from getting windburn and frostbite from walking outside...lol
The Gym: yeah, you got me, it is pretty weak. but Family first sports center
is a huge gym facility nearby that has nearly ever intramural sport that
you can think of (besides equine)

Hopes this helps explain why LECOM is the way it is, it's not meant to be like DMU, KCUMB, or KCOM (these are all schools that i interviewed and were accepted into). It's meant to be a good fit for Erie, and has some features that are specific to it.

Like i said before, i was accepted into every school that i interviewed at, and for me, LECOM proved to me that they were the most proffesional school, and one that would help best prepare me to become an awesome DO.
 

bustbones26

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people there isn't a day that goes by that I do not feel immense regret for settling for LECOM. Forget the dress code and rules, there are other issues that I have with the school, but just trust me, do not go to this hell hole!
 

robo77

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Could you please be more specific?

bustbones26 said:
people there isn't a day that goes by that I do not feel immense regret for settling for LECOM. Forget the dress code and rules, there are other issues that I have with the school, but just trust me, do not go to this hell hole!
 

bustbones26

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When push comes to shove, the education you get at LECOM is just fine. IN fact right now I am at a hospital in central PA that sees a number of LECOM students for rotations. My current preceptor has told me that he believes that the LECOM students that have rotated with him in the past have done a fine job. So there is nothing wrong with the education that LECOM provides.

My problem with LECOM is the administration, and if you want more details than that, PM me.
 

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i hope you don't take this the wrong way bustbones26 but it seems like you don't want to come out and say something because maybe it's not entirely true or might just represent your isolated experience at LECOM. i for one would like to know why you think have "immense regret" for going to LECOM and i'm sure everyone else does too.
 

bcruize

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Maybe Bones has a similar experience with the administration I did. I just didn't get the impression of a well run student focussed school. I also heard that a couple of physcians own the school. As opposed to a large group so it may have the potential to be heavily biased twards thier mindset- but this is just hearsay. Also I heard while I was in erie from some "locals" that most of erie is owned by a select few people. Which may contribute to the strange atmosphere. again hearsay and it is just my opinion.
sorry to hear of your regret bones.
 

Tams

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eldarion3141 said:
First: Dress Code- you will eventually have to dress like a doctor (ie dress
shirt,tie, dress pants, dress shoes to work!) so LECOM tries to instill a
proffessional attitude from the begining.
Cameras: If you paid millions of dollars for a new medical school in 1992,
would you want exhausted medical students spilling coffee all over the
carpets?
The Rules: Once again, the workplace has rules, why not try and instill them
early so you don't embarass yourself and your school while on clinicals.
you wouldn't go into an appointment with a patient chomping on a donut
and slurping coffee would you?
The "sterile feel": This is something about LECOM that i found unsettling, and
I asked a student about it, and they just looked at me and said, "yeah,
I know what you mean, kinda feels like a hospital doesn't it?" And
seeing as hospitals are where doctors practice, i figured this was
another way for LECOM to acclimatize you to be a better proffesional.
One Building: Sure, LECOM could have built seperate buildings, but Erie
winters are known to be windy and cold, and would you want to walk
around more than you would have to outside?
LECOM only has one building for a reason, it's to prevent the med
students from getting windburn and frostbite from walking outside...lol
The Gym: yeah, you got me, it is pretty weak. but Family first sports center
is a huge gym facility nearby that has nearly ever intramural sport that
you can think of (besides equine)

Hopes this helps explain why LECOM is the way it is, it's not meant to be like DMU, KCUMB, or KCOM (these are all schools that i interviewed and were accepted into). It's meant to be a good fit for Erie, and has some features that are specific to it.

Like i said before, i was accepted into every school that i interviewed at, and for me, LECOM proved to me that they were the most proffesional school, and one that would help best prepare me to become an awesome DO.

Your reasoning is the MOST LAME for explaining why LECOM has only one building... every other medical school in northern part of this country has MULTIPLE builidings as part of its campus. Did you ever hears of scarves and gloves??
Also, medical students know better than spilling coffee on the carpet, we have MATURED!!
WHY DOES LECOM TREAT ITS STUDENTS LIKE HIGH-SCHOOLERS?

The rest of the med schools DON'T have dress code, b/c there is NO REASON to instill it into you in the classroom.
Why doesn't PIT's or Case Western's Medical school have Rules, Cameras and Dress Codes? and yet they are A LOT better than LECOM!!

LECOM is more like a military academy or concentration camp than a medical school.
ALso, it barely places a small percentage of its class into top specialities like anesthesia, radiology, etc....
Point Made: LECOM sucks
 

mrm1682

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hey tams, i hope you get a sense of humor before you start med school because you absolutely lack one right now based on your response. the part about the building was a joke on eldarion's part. lighten up.
 

Kazema

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Tams said:
Your reasoning is the MOST LAME for explaining why LECOM has only one building... every other medical school in northern part of this country has MULTIPLE builidings as part of its campus. Did you ever hears of scarves and gloves??
Also, medical students know better than spilling coffee on the carpet, we have MATURED!!
WHY DOES LECOM TREAT ITS STUDENTS LIKE HIGH-SCHOOLERS?

The rest of the med schools DON'T have dress code, b/c there is NO REASON to instill it into you in the classroom.
Why doesn't PIT's or Case Western's Medical school have Rules, Cameras and Dress Codes? and yet they are A LOT better than LECOM!!

LECOM is more like a military academy or concentration camp than a medical school.
ALso, it barely places a small percentage of its class into top specialities like anesthesia, radiology, etc....
Point Made: LECOM sucks
Geez. If you hate the rules so much why did you apply to LECOM? And if you didn't apply, why are you so pissed off about something that has nothing to do with you?

You made your point: LECOM has a dress code and strict rules. That will turn some people off from their school. But what's the point in ridiculing people who don't mind the rules?
 

Ypo.

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bcruize said:
I agree that rankings are highly subjective and again everyone needs to decide for themselves where is best for them and maybe I was a little harsh in expressing my concerns regarding the pathways at LECOM. It is an accreddited school that to my knowledge is NOT under review, I just find it hard to beleive that 100 % PBL after anatomy and OMM is the right way togo. I think it should be a integral part of any program but 100 % is concerning to me. As far as physicians being competent if they pass their boards I think we all know that is not the case. Tests- any test - will test approx 20-30% of the total information studied. Idependent study program may work well for some people for other profesisons but I am not comfortable knowing that my physician went to "home school". PBL does force the student ot think clinically from the start but I believe without a firm foundation it won't be a complete education. Again I haven't started medicla school- I am 28, have been a Physical Therapist Assistant for over 5 years- with extensive interaction with MDs DOs and have been taking classes at various colleges over the years. The original post asked for help with deciding PCOM vs. LECOM. I gave my opinion. also I thought the purpose of the interview was to get an impression of the school and to make a decision. Regardless I think any medical school interviews should include some interaction with graduates or atleast a physician in the area.
Just thought you should know there are other schools out there who have adopted the 100% PBL. Univeristy of Hawaii (MD school) is one of them. I believe that many schools started using PBL when Harvard did. At MSUCHM the first year is lecture, but the second year is PBL.

I also think you went too far by saying that patients should steer clear from LECOM graduates. If a student does well on the boards, and gets into a good residency program, they will be a great doctor. Most of your training that you use will come from your residency anyways. PBL can be a great way to learn.

Keep in mind that I also was unimpressed with LECOM. But that was beacuse I didn't like the dress code, and other schools that I interviewed at were more appealing to me.

As I understand it, LECOM is a family-owned, family-run school. APparently they think that the dresscode is really important for instilling professionalism. Some people agree, others don't. If you resent being told how to dress, then you won't like the atmosphere. On the other hand, if you went to a private school with a dress code, maybe it won't bother you.

About there being only one building- Keep in mind that whatever medical school you attend, your first and second years will be spent almost entirely in one building anyways. In fact, you will spend them mainly in one room (the lecture hall) with the labs-which are usually located in the same building as the lecture hall. You can easily fit all these rooms into one building, with a library. Many of the schools I interviewed at were like this. I personally wouldn't want to have to go to a bunch of different buildings.

Its not till 3rd and 4th year that we get to go out and about. :D
 

LikeDO

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yposhelley said:
Just thought you should know there are other schools out there who have adopted the 100% PBL. Univeristy of Hawaii (MD school) is one of them. I believe that many schools started using PBL when Harvard did. At MSUCHM the first year is lecture, but the second year is PBL.

I also think you went too far by saying that patients should steer clear from LECOM graduates. If a student does well on the boards, and gets into a good residency program, they will be a great doctor. Most of your training that you use will come from your residency anyways. PBL can be a great way to learn.

Keep in mind that I also was unimpressed with LECOM. But that was beacuse I didn't like the dress code, and other schools that I interviewed at were more appealing to me.

As I understand it, LECOM is a family-owned, family-run school. APparently they think that the dresscode is really important for instilling professionalism. Some people agree, others don't. If you resent being told how to dress, then you won't like the atmosphere. On the other hand, if you went to a private school with a dress code, maybe it won't bother you.

About there being only one building- Keep in mind that whatever medical school you attend, your first and second years will be spent almost entirely in one building anyways. In fact, you will spend them mainly in one room (the lecture hall) with the labs-which are usually located in the same building as the lecture hall. You can easily fit all these rooms into one building, with a library. Many of the schools I interviewed at were like this. I personally wouldn't want to have to go to a bunch of different buildings.

Its not till 3rd and 4th year that we get to go out and about. :D

PCOM beats LECOM, any day any time and in every respect.... does more need be said?
 

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Chisel said:
Independent study ends up being a good option for some students. I am at PCOM and attended only a select number of lectures. I would pick and choose the lectures that I found would be most useful. So, although not formally "Independent", this is pretty much what my first two years were.

And as far as PBL is concerned, I know that the COMLEX scores tend to be higher since you are dealing with cases nearly from the beginnning of school.
I think that PBL allows the student to approach the cases as if they are the Dr. What a great idea. You will find that to adjust from the classroom to the wards is often difficult.

A patient doesn't present to you with choices A thru E written on a piece of paper and hand it to you and say, "Based on my symptoms, which one do I have?" But rather you must be able to come up with these on your own.

Believe me, I have experienced LECOM and PCOM first hand. I can tell you that LECOM is run a lot tighter than PCOM. However, to say that they do any less of a job in preparing you for life as a phyisican is ridiculous.

So, in my opinion, I would choose PCOM.

However, to choose LECOM you would not be making a mistake. Look at both schools and list the pros and cons to each. It is at that point that you'll find your answer.

To those with any specific questions PM me.

Chisel
PCOM MSIII

PS- If not already in med school or a practicing physician, I suggest that you watch what you say in reference to the level of training a particular school gives. It is difficult to be a physcian. And it is just as difficult to be a school that has trained physician's since 1992. If LECOM was not doing their job, they would not be around. Period. Speak out of experience in the future. Otherwise you end up sounding pretty ignorant.
PBL is an effective way for many students to have a positive educational experience. PBL is a method that uses clinical learning by way of case studies. I have the opportunity to interact with a number of physicians and none of them have had negative comments about LECOM. Look at what you like about both schools, then what you do not like about each school, and then make a decision based on that.

AACOM Home Page > Medical Education > Dir of Innovations > Student Performances on COMLEX Level I Licensing Exam Following Implementation of an Integrated Clinical Presentation Curriculum

METHOD: Performances on Level I of the licensing exam for eight classes (1994 - 2001) in the traditional curriculum were compared with those of the first two classes to study in the integrated curriculum (2002 - 2003). The pass rates for the classes learning in the integrated curriculum are higher than the pass rates for the classes that learned in the traditional curriculum. Further, the pass rate for the students studying in the integrated curriculum is significantly higher than the national average.

Presenter: Nehad I. El-Sawi, Ph.D.
Kansas City University of Medicine and Biosciences

We should be cautious when stating our opinions. We all have them, however, we should form those opinions with sound information. Someone that works hard to get a license to practice medicine should not be discredited because of the institution they chose.

Hope everyone has a wonderful osteopathic educational experience :) .

csh
 

Ypo.

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bcruize said:
good short concise answer
Its better to say what you like about PCOM and just state what you didn't find appealing about LECOM than to go so far as saying that 'patients ought to avoid doctors who graduated from LECOM'. Its not professional to offend unnecessarily or to spread grossly untrue rumours. :thumbdown:
 

bcruize

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again,
All I stated was my opinion but I may have been harsh in my initial statement. An interview should accurately portray a school- its mission statement- which I don't know- because it was never stated duruing the interview. I didn't talk with-or see- one practicing physician all day and from what I have heard here I wasn't even shown/described an accurate idea of what PBL is. I actually stated all of these reasons before but here they are again. Dress code/rules/regulations really don't factor into it for me. NOVA in FL has a dresscode- shirt and tie or scrubs and white coat- and a card swiping attendance policy.
 

Ypo.

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bcruize said:
again,
All I stated was my opinion but I may have been harsh in my initial statement. An interview should accurately portray a school- its mission statement- which I don't know- because it was never stated duruing the interview. I didn't talk with-or see- one practicing physician all day and from what I have heard here I wasn't even shown/described an accurate idea of what PBL is. I actually stated all of these reasons before but here they are again. Dress code/rules/regulations really don't factor into it for me. NOVA in FL has a dresscode- shirt and tie or scrubs and white coat- and a card swiping attendance policy.
All that is fine-those are concrete examples of what failed to impress you on interview day. However-like I said, you should be very careful before you make broad statements discouraging people from seeing doctors who have attended a certain school. To draw the conclusion that LECOM produces low-quality doctors from your 'one-day' experience at LECOM was rash. Keep in mind that interview days and they way they are experienced vary widely depending on the person, interviewer, and a host of other factors. That is why you will have differing impressions from any particular group of students on the same day.
 

bustbones26

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mrm1682. The ONLY reason why I am not stating what my personal bad experience with LECOM is over this board is for a very good reason. Because I am a student at LECOM. I have to be honest with you all, in the past, I once made an "anonymous" crappy evaluation about a place on a board like this and I paid dearly for it!!! Bottom line, these boards are not "anonymous", and I learned that the hard way in the past. I have my personal opinions about LECOM, and instead of boirng you all with them, causing a flame war, or throwing my a$$ back on the BBQ because so and so heard through so and so, the so and so at SDN, who post as bustbones26, who really is so and so , said XYZ, and then they went and told the dean. Sounds paranoid I know, but a similar situation like this has happened to me before.

So despite my problems with LECOM, my medical education and future as a DO is too precious to "risk it" by whining here.
 

mrm1682

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good reason bones. we actually ran into the same thing with the post-bacc program that i'm in now. someone was bad-mouthing it here on SDN and it got around to the director of the program. he then brought it up to the class as a whole and was trying to give reasons why that person was wrong and who he thought did it (no specific names though). but with all that aside, i understand that not everyone has a great experience with their school and sometimes things just happen for whatever reason. i'm sorry that your experience with LECOM has been sub-par and i hope that it's was an isolated instance.
 

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I cannot speak for Lecom-Erie, but Lecom-Bradenton is a fabulous school. I am in the midst of my first year and could not be any happier. The school is outstanding. I have heard horror stories about other schools and I can honestly tell you that Lecom-Bradenton does not have any. People enjoy complaining and anywhere you go some people are going to whine. If you attend Lecom-Bradenton you really have nothing that you can complain about.
 

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bustbones26 said:
mrm1682. The ONLY reason why I am not stating what my personal bad experience with LECOM is over this board is for a very good reason. Because I am a student at LECOM. I have to be honest with you all, in the past, I once made an "anonymous" crappy evaluation about a place on a board like this and I paid dearly for it!!! Bottom line, these boards are not "anonymous", and I learned that the hard way in the past. I have my personal opinions about LECOM, and instead of boirng you all with them, causing a flame war, or throwing my a$$ back on the BBQ because so and so heard through so and so, the so and so at SDN, who post as bustbones26, who really is so and so , said XYZ, and then they went and told the dean. Sounds paranoid I know, but a similar situation like this has happened to me before.

So despite my problems with LECOM, my medical education and future as a DO is too precious to "risk it" by whining here.
Bustbones...
Are you serious? Someone actually turned you into the dean because of something you said on SDN? That's pathetic.

I don't get into LECOM-bashing threads very much (because they pop up all the time and I don't want to sound like a broken record), but I am just wondering why aren't there any NOVA-bashing threads? They have the same dress code and attendance rules that LECOM has.

I will only say that when I graduate from LECOM in a few months, I don't think my patients should be "afraid" of me. I received a good education from LECOM and I will be ready (although scared as hell) to be a physician. Attendings on rotations have told me that LECOM students are even better than some..gasp!...MD students.

Don't base your opinion of LECOM on a three-hour interview day. :rolleyes:
 

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ACKKK!!! why are people always hatin on my school??? when it came time for me to chose a school, my choice was also between PCOM and LECOM. call me crazy, even though i liked PCOM, i chose LECOM. and i dont regret it for a second.

im LDP and im supposed to go to class but i rarely do, i can't wear pajamas to class so instead i wear khakis and a hoodie (wow what a strict dress code), and i have to smuggle a water bottle into class in the sleeve of my jacket. but i dont really care about that stuff. that stuff is not important. people whine about the admin, but take it from me (someone on student government who has worked with the admin on more than one issue), the ferrettis may be crazy but they 100% HAVE THE STUDENTS' BEST INTEREST IN MIND. im not gonna lie, they're a bunch of weirdos, and yes, they are strict on random things that to us make no sense, but when it comes to the important stuff, namely, uh, YOUR EDUCATION, you will not find LECOM lacking any more so than any other school (notice i didn't say it was perfect, its not, but neither is YOUR school, wherever you may go.) for some reason, when the admin does something students dont like, they forget about the 50 things the admin does that is good. whats up with that? i can say from experience that any student who has run into trouble with the administration has usually either a.)done something really stupid to embarrass themselves or the school or b.)tried to make a big deal out of something totally not important (ie dress code), and you're right, when it comes to stuff like that, the admin wont budge. i've seen dr silvia (the dean) rip people a new a$$hole more than once- she may be 4 ft tall and look like harry potter, but that lady doesn't mess around. and the students she laid into totally deserved it. i know male students who have left her office holding back tears.

LECOM students do well on boards (all pathways, on all levels), and land good residencies in competetive programs. we have good rotation sites in big cities in big hospitals, the chance to set your rotations up anywhere you please (including hawaii), and tons of electives and selectives (i think the most out of any other school). not to mention we have THE CHEAPEST tuition, which will be nice when you are a poor overworked resident trying to pay back loans. and you people are whining about LECOM only having ONE BUILDING?? who cares! so when it comes to chosing a school, dont come here if you're hung up on the minor details that have no impact on your education. but if you're like me, and can actually see the big picture, you'll be happy at LECOM.

to the OP- dont listen to these haters! when it comes to chosing a school, you can only go with your gut. no one's experience will be yours. i love LECOM, i chose it over PCOM, im happy. PM me if you have specific questions!