PCOM vs. DMU

[DObound]

Any input on this?

PCOM:

Pros: great area to do rotations

Cons: Philie

DMU:

Pros: best OMM program
possibly smarter classmates (hopefully) due to higher average GPA/MCAT

Cons: lack of diversity
small city
haved to do 3rd year rotations in the state... com'n it is Iowa

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[sexyman]

Being in Philly shouldn't be a con at PCOM. Philly is awesome.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

There probably isn't a better place in the country to do rotations than Philly. I'd go to PCOM in a second.

 

[whatdapho]

Any input on this?

PCOM:

Pros: great area to do rotations

Cons: Philie

DMU:

Pros: best OMM program
possibly smarter classmates (hopefully) due to higher average GPA/MCAT

Cons: lack of diversity
small city
haved to do 3rd year rotations in the state... com'n it is Iowa

I don't know if you're referring to the diversity of Des Moines or DMU itself, but I think for the most part, the majority of medical students are causasian to begin with so you can't blame DMU for that. As for Des Moines, even though it's 97% causasian, most people here are extremely friendly. I never get any negative attention from the people here because I am Asian. I'm from CA where the city I grew up in was a minority majority so I know a lot about diversity. However, I don't feel uncomfortable here in Des Moines.
Believe it or not, but Des Moines is a pretty large size city with about 300-500thousand people so it's not really that small. yes there's not much to do around here except downtown but once you're in med school, you don't have much time to go out anyway. Hopefully I gave some insight to you. I enjoy DMU a lot (except for anatomy cause it's kicking my butt). Good luck with your decision.

 

[EEL08]

Personally I would choose DMU for many reasons, one of which is I don't have a strong desire to live in Philly.

 

[medhacker]

Any input on this?

PCOM:

Pros: great area to do rotations

Cons: Philie

DMU:

Pros: best OMM program
possibly smarter classmates (hopefully) due to higher average GPA/MCAT

Cons: lack of diversity
small city
haved to do 3rd year rotations in the state... com'n it is Iowa

My man,

You seem to have a such a gravitational tendency to shoot yourself in the foot:

Just how do you know DMU has the best OMM program?

And smarter classmates because of GPA and MCAT? you certainly have so much to learn about life...

No offense to our DMU folks, but perhaps you may want to stay with DMU and spare us... 😍

 

[TexasTriathlete]

EEL08 where do you want to live? You said no Texas, and there probably isn't a place in this country that is less like Ft. Worth than Philly, and you don't want to live there either (personally, I like both... Ft. Worth is a cool little city that provides a nice change from the extreme pretentiousness of Dallas, and Philly is a mecca of History amd diversity, with a great environment to learn Medicine). Are you from a really small town originally?

 

[Polynikes]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=459203

IMO

If I were part of the adcom at any school you applied to that taught osteopathic medicine, you'd be denied in a millisecond...

But that's just me.

Especially since your "heart lies closer to MD."

Whatever that means...

 

[EEL08]

EEL08 where do you want to live? You said no Texas, and there probably isn't a place in this country that is less like Ft. Worth than Philly, and you don't want to live there either (personally, I like both... Ft. Worth is a cool little city that provides a nice change from the extreme pretentiousness of Dallas, and Philly is a mecca of History amd diversity, with a great environment to learn Medicine). Are you from a really small town originally?

Honestly, the idea of living in Philly scares me a little bit. It seems so big city to me. What scares me more than that is New York City. Never been there, I would love to visit but wouldn't want to live there. I am from a town in Illinois of 25-50,000 depending on if it's during the school year or not. There's nothing wrong with Fort Worth it's just not where I want to stay forever. I haven't experienced living in other parts of Texas so I wouldn't rule it out altogether. The problem is there are no other DO schools in Texas hence we will be moving out of the state. Oh and I would love to visit Philly also.

 

[Bacchus]

I live in a township outside of my town of approximately ~3500 people. Some people have more than that in their high school. I now live in Philly which is ~1,000,000 people strong (+/- w/ the daily shootings 🙁) and I don't hate it. It was actually a lot better than living in a place where you have to drive 20 minutes to go to Walmart or 45 minutes to get to a mall. Don't knock it til you try it.

 

[DObound]

If I were part of the adcom at any school you applied to that taught osteopathic medicine, you'd be denied in a millisecond...

well you are not. There is no IFs at this point.

 

[EEL08]

Oh my goodness. I did not mean to start a thing. I'm not knocking Philly. I don't know enough about it to do that. I'm just not sure if it would be the right place for me. I just feel apprehensive because I'm not familiar with it. Pick any bigger city with the exception of Chicago and I would feel the same way.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

One advantage offered by both PCOM and TCOM is that you don't have to bounce all over the country for your rotations. Having a family, I would think this would be important.

 

[EEL08]

One advantage offered by both PCOM and TCOM is that you don't have to bounce all over the country for your rotations. Having a family, I would think this would be important.

It is nicer to not have to move too much but my oldest child won't even be starting school until the time we're hopefully starting 3rd year. If it would be necessary to move that would be the time to do it. TCOM is a great school but I know, almost for a fact, that it's not for me. PCOM isn't completely ruled out but both my husband and I are having difficulties fulfilling the LOR requirement.

 

[IUgrad]

Sorry but what is the LOR requirement you're talking about? Did I miss this?

 

[EEL08]

Sorry but what is the LOR requirement you're talking about? Did I miss this?

They require a LOR from I think a pre-med advisor or committee. If that's not possible then it has to be from your undergrad advisor or the Dean of the college that granted your undergrad degree.

 

[IUgrad]

Oh, I see. Thanks. My school gives out committee letters so I guess I overlooked this.

 

[medhacker]

They require a LOR from I think a pre-med advisor or committee. If that's not possible then it has to be from your undergrad advisor or the Dean of the college that granted your undergrad degree.

What problem are you having with that requirement?

 

[EEL08]

What problem are you having with that requirement?

I've been trying to contact my undergrad advisor but I can't get a hold of him. The dean of my college would be the dean of the entire college. I went to a small school so there are chairs of the departments but not exactly deans. My husband tried to contact who he thinks was his undergrad advisor but they have not gotten back to him. Almost everyone from his undergrad department is different now. He just felt that for now we should focus on the other schools and if we can manage to get those letters than we will apply.

 

[medhacker]

I've been trying to contact my undergrad advisor but I can't get a hold of him. The dean of my college would be the dean of the entire college. I went to a small school so there are chairs of the departments but not exactly deans. My husband tried to contact who he thinks was his undergrad advisor but they have not gotten back to him. Almost everyone from his undergrad department is different now. He just felt that for now we should focus on the other schools and if we can manage to get those letters than we will apply.

Many, MANY, MANY, people don't really understand that requirement.

If you can get the dean of your college to say on a letter, that you are enrolled and in good standing, even if she/he does not know you and you add to that one, LORs from your professors, that is all that's needed. It is nothing more than a formality. Hate to see how every year so many people pass on a great school for misunderstanding that requirement...

 

[EEL08]

Many, MANY, MANY, people don't really understand that requirement.

If you can get the dean of your college to say on a letter, that you are enrolled and in good standing, even if she/he does not know you and you add to that one, LORs from your professors, that is all that's needed. It is nothing more than a formality. Hate to see how every year so many people pass on a great school for misunderstanding that requirement...

I completely understand that. I got my degree in Counseling and Bible. There is no College of Counseling at my school. There is my advisor and two or three other full-time professors, one of whom I have gotten a LOR from. There is the dean of the school I attended as a whole. Do you think that would count? As in dean over the entire school? There's actual several deans so I would have to figure out which one. I know the dean of my husband's department is different than when he was there. Should he just be able to look up my husband's file (he graduated in 1994) and find out that he graduated in good standing?

 

[Dienekes]

I completely understand that. I got my degree in Counseling and Bible. There is no College of Counseling at my school. There is my advisor and two or three other full-time professors, one of whom I have gotten a LOR from. There is the dean of the school I attended as a whole. Do you think that would count? As in dean over the entire school? There's actual several deans so I would have to figure out which one. I know the dean of my husband's department is different than when he was there. Should he just be able to look up my husband's file (he graduated in 1994) and find out that he graduated in good standing?

Swing and a miss......

 

[EEL08]

Swing and a miss......

Okay tell me what I'm missing.

 

[group_theory]

I completely understand that. I got my degree in Counseling and Bible. There is no College of Counseling at my school. There is my advisor and two or three other full-time professors, one of whom I have gotten a LOR from. There is the dean of the school I attended as a whole. Do you think that would count? As in dean over the entire school? There's actual several deans so I would have to figure out which one. I know the dean of my husband's department is different than when he was there. Should he just be able to look up my husband's file (he graduated in 1994) and find out that he graduated in good standing?

Deans get this request pretty often and it won't be anything new to them. Usually their secretary/assistant (or whatever title is used) will be the one looking up the info and writing the letter and signing it under authority of the dean


To the OP, given your recent posting history, perhaps you should ask yourself if you would ever be happy being a DO. Then ask yourself if you want to go to Philly, since you have made some direct and indirect negative remarks about PCOM (and osteopathic medical education in general) in several of your posts.
Medical school is rough, whether it is at DMU, PCOM, Georgetown, Chicago, etc. If you are not happy to begin with, seeing your classmates (who are estatic to be there) might rub a nerve. It's 4 long years where you will be spending many hours together. It's 4 years dealing with school officials. It's 4 years where you will run into alumni who expect you to have school pride.

 

[desijigga]

Swing and a miss......

I think what Dienekes is trying to say is he just missed the pitch and is down 0-1 in the count.

EEL08 - if your pre-med advisor can't write you one, just ask the head Dean of the school (the top dog). I got my letter for PCOM from the Dean of my Natural Science college, its just a standard letter of Good Standing. They know more about it, I am sure they had written many in the past. Well atleast thats what my Dead told me.

 

[EEL08]

I think what Dienekes is trying to say is he just missed the pitch and is down 0-1 in the count.

EEL08 - if your pre-med advisor can't write you one, just ask the head Dean of the school (the top dog). I got my letter for PCOM from the Dean of my Natural Science college, its just a standard letter of Good Standing. They know more about it, I am sure they had written many in the past. Well atleast thats what my Dead told me.

I think the confusion is that I didn't go to a typical undergrad school. I just wanted to make sure that the dean of the entire school, the top dog as you said 😉, would work for that LOR.

 

[JonnyG]

I completely understand that. I got my degree in Counseling and Bible. There is no College of Counseling at my school. There is my advisor and two or three other full-time professors, one of whom I have gotten a LOR from. There is the dean of the school I attended as a whole. Do you think that would count? As in dean over the entire school? There's actual several deans so I would have to figure out which one. I know the dean of my husband's department is different than when he was there. Should he just be able to look up my husband's file (he graduated in 1994) and find out that he graduated in good standing?

I assume the entire school has a dean? that is who writes the letter not head of the department. Contact the deans/presidents office at the school. It is a standard form letter and shouldnt take them more then a day to write. It isn't suppose to be an assessment of your ability to be in medical shcool like the committee letter.

 

[medhacker]

I think the confusion is that I didn't go to a typical undergrad school. I just wanted to make sure that the dean of the entire school, the top dog as you said 😉, would work for that LOR.

It doesn't matter, talk to the big kahunas (dean of the school) and get his letter. It's just a formality and they [dean, secretary etc] are probably accustomed to such letters.

 

[EEL08]

It doesn't matter, talk to the big kahunas (dean of the school) and get his letter. It's just a formality and they [dean, secretary etc] are probably accustomed to such letters.

Okay so there's an academic dean and a dean of students. I'm guessing the academic dean would be the one to ask. Maybe he will actually respond.

 

[medhacker]

Okay so there's an academic dean and a dean of students. I'm guessing the academic dean would be the one to ask. Maybe he will actually respond.

Respond? as in email? or voice mail?

Fo'get that

Go camp at her/his office and don't leave 'till you get yo' letter...

Well not exactly, but you get the idea

 

[EEL08]

Respond? as in email? or voice mail?

Fo'get that

Go camp at her/his office and don't leave 'till you get yo' letter...

Well not exactly, but you get the idea

Well it's not quite that easy. I graduated 6 years ago from a school in Tennessee and now I live in Texas. But thanks for the suggestion! 😀 As nontraditionals that's why I think it was harder for us to get the letters without any problems. My husband graduated 13 years ago.

 

[EEL08]

BTW medhacker, thanks for all your input. I'm talking to my husband about contacting the dean instead of his academic advisor who hasn't responded to him yet. That means two more secondaries to complete which would be the only unfortunate part. Hmm, complete secondaries or study for my comp exam? It's like being stuck between a rock and a hard place.

 

[medhacker]

Well it's not quite that easy. I graduated 6 years ago from a school in Tennessee and now I live in Texas. But thanks for the suggestion! 😀 As nontraditionals that's why I think it was harder for us to get the letters without any problems. My husband graduated 13 years ago.

Yes, that requirement is harder on us non-trads, but we non-trads also have the life-smarts to overcome many issues our [trad] counterparts may get stuck on. Best wishes!

 

[EEL08]

Yes, that requirement is harder on us non-trads, but we non-trads also have the life-smarts to overcome many issues our [trad] counterparts may get stuck on. Best wishes!

Thanks! BTW, that's the only LOR requirement? I know a DO is recommended and actually DO #1 (if anyone has followed my LOR drama) is a PCOM graduate. Not sure that's going to come through though.

 

[EEL08]

To the OP, sorry about semi-derailing your thread! I didn't mean to! Now we can resume comparing PCOM and DMU. 😀

 

[Polynikes]

well you are not. There is no IFs at this point.

There "are" no .....IMO

And lucky you...

 

[DOcat]

My comparison of DMU and PCOM basically consists of the opportunities for rotations and residencies. DMU is mostly traveling rotations, in that you can't do all of them in Des Moines. I, personally, don't like the idea of having to find new accomodations every month. My only other qualm with DMU is that because it is in such a nice, quiet town, it seems very family friendly, and I prefer to be around a younger crowd, with whom I feel I can relate to better. DMU, during their tour did mention that during the board-prep courses from companies, they do not really focus at all on OMM because they say that the school has a great preparation in that area. PCOM, however, also has a great program, but without an official presentation from the admissions office, you don't hear much about it.

All of this is about the post topic...but to the OP: I, as a dedicated DO applicant, I would greatly appreciate it if you would NOT enter the field half-heartedly. DO students are proud of their philosophy, and those who use it simply as a backup and whose "heart is closer to MD" are completely disrespecting our education. 👎

 

[medhacker]

To the OP, sorry about semi-derailing your thread! I didn't mean to! Now we can resume comparing PCOM and DMU. 😀

Don't worry about the OP, I doubt he was accepted to PCOM

This is what you do, get that protocolary dean's letter
get a DOs LOR if you can
get the best LORs you can from two science professors and one non-science.

 

[jbone]

First of all before anyone comments about our rotations, they should probably know what the hell they are talking about first instead of quoting some crap they "heard". I chose DMU over PCOM because it fit ME best. 2 years into it and I have no regrets. Does it mean that DMU is better that PCOM or PCOM is better than DMU?...no. It's where you fit in.

And to the op, an average gpa of 3.65 and MCAT of 27 (class of 2011) isn't too shabby for us DMU students. Now back to tipping cows. 🙄

 

[EEL08]

Don't worry about the OP, I doubt he was accepted to PCOM

This is what you do, get that protocolary dean's letter
get a DOs LOR if you can
get the best LORs you can from two science professors and one non-science.

I will e-mail the dean this weekend. I have my two science prof letters and one non-science already so I'm good there. Can I send all those letters? I'm just having a problem with the DO letter which is a requirement at some schools. I've written about my DO dilemma in the LOR thread if you want to check it out and give me any input you may have. I appreciate any advice anyone can give me. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=147087&page=7 The drama begins on post #329.

 

[DOcat]

First of all before anyone comments about our rotations, they should probably know what the hell they are talking about first instead of quoting some crap they "heard".

I dont know if this was directed at me or not, but I felt like I should clarify?? My knowledge of DMU's rotations comes from my visit there, and research I'd done on the school. From my understanding, rotations were not all in the Des Moines area, but instead you had to travel to a different site for each one. Perhaps, you could clarify instead of getting angry? I think that DMU and PCOM are basically very comparable in their academics (clinical and classroom) and all the learning tools they offer. But really, all anyone can comment on is what they've "heard" and don't know if its crap or not.

 

[Nickelpennykid]

First of all before anyone comments about our rotations, they should probably know what the hell they are talking about first instead of quoting some crap they "heard". I chose DMU over PCOM because it fit ME best. 2 years into it and I have no regrets. Does it mean that DMU is better that PCOM or PCOM is better than DMU?...no. It's where you fit in.

And to the op, an average gpa of 3.65 and MCAT of 27 (class of 2011) isn't too shabby for us DMU students. Now back to tipping cows. 🙄

Incoming class averages are nice to throw around to pre-meds to sell a school but two years into it, you should realize that when they are all within a pretty close range for the MCAT (1-3 points, don't really care to look this up but it's close) it amounts to....nothing. We are not talking about an incoming MCAT averages of say 27 and 35.

What will matter will be the clinical rotations, since I have never been to Iowa, I can't comment on them. However, like other posters have said, for the osteopathic schools, it's hard to deny the strength of PCOM's clincial rotations within the city and the AOA residency programs that are assoicated with the school.

OP, if you really think DMU has the best OMM and that is what you want to do, then go there. You can't make the decision on grades and speculation. Decide what it is you think you want to do and see which school has the best chance of getting you there. Sounds vague, but picking a school because the class before you had nice averages and someone told you thier OMM program is the best is a huge mistake.

Also if you are learning towards MD and have slight doubts about being an osteopathic physician, please do everyone on this sight and in your class a favor and don't pick DMU or PCOM as a backup. This way we can avoid another malcontent posting on SDN and complaining during orientation.

 

[jbone]

Incoming class averages are nice to throw around to pre-meds to sell a school but two years into it, you should realize that when they are all within a pretty close range for the MCAT (1-3 points, don't really care to look this up but it's close) it amounts to....nothing. We are not talking about an incoming MCAT averages of say 27 and 35.

Not trying to sell my school. Class averages mean nothing to me and they don't mean anything when you get in. I was trying to make that point that it doen't really matter. You should go with what feels right to you. Simple as that. Premeds like to jump on the fact that they got into a class with high averages. But like I said, it doesn't mean anything. Anyway, Best of luck to you (OP), I wasn't angry, just trying to make a point that you get a lot of BS on these boards and you shouldn't trust or believe everything you hear/read. To say that you know based on your visit here what the rotations are going to be like is actually quite a stretch. I'm a second year here and they are changing what they are doing starting this year(Keeping everyone close) and to be honest with you, WE don't even know. But I'm almost 100% positive I'll be rotating where I want to so it's nothing to get excited about. DMU has over 110 years of history and I'm sure they aren't going to just wing it. If you have any questions, PM me and I'd be glad to tell you everything I know (which isn't much). 😀 Carry on...and get some sleep while you still can!

 

[DObound]

well, everyone has their backup's. I actually was interviewed at DMU as well, will hear soon from them. "The best in OMM" for DMU is what the dean of admissions has told us during the introductory speach. DMU actually impressed me for a small school in Iowa.

I think I am asking legit questions. If you do not know the answer or delay them till they come up later, it does not mean these questions are bad.

 

[DObound]

Also, whaty do you guys think that DMU students are not allowed to go out of state for rotations during their 3rd year. Does it negatively affect you? Also when exactly do people apply for residencies? Do students generally have enough time to complete a rotation at a place they want before residency application?

 

[Toohotinvegas33]

well, everyone has their backup's. I actually was interviewed at DMU as well, will hear soon from them. "The best in OMM" for DMU is what the dean of admissions has told us during the introductory speach. DMU actually impressed me for a small school in Iowa.

I think I am asking legit questions. If you do not know the answer or delay them till they come up later, it does not mean these questions are bad.

Also, whaty do you guys think that DMU students are not allowed to go out of state for rotations during their 3rd year. Does it negatively affect you? Also when exactly do people apply for residencies? Do students generally have enough time to complete a rotation at a place they want before residency application?

After reading your last 2 posts, I think you need to change your name to "Englishbound". I know we don't use mla format on the web, but please put together a half decent sentence!

 

[Creightonite]

After reading your last 2 posts, I think you need to change your name to "Englishbound". I know we don't use mla format on the web, but please put together a half decent sentence!

lol

 

[jbone]

After reading your last 2 posts, I think you need to change your name to "Englishbound". I know we don't use mla format on the web, but please put together a half decent sentence!

now now....be nice.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

EEL08 did you go to Lipscomb?

 

[EEL08]

EEL08 did you go to Lipscomb?

Nope. I've actually never heard of Lipscomb.