pediatric oncology

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ScienceJunkie

ScienceJunkie

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anybody have any thoughts on this? i'm hoping to pursue an M.D.-Ph.D. in pediatric oncology.

also, would pediatric oncology require additional years as a specialization? i'm assuming that it's the same as any specialization...
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It would require a 3 yr residency in peds and a fellowship after that in peds onc.
 
dang...even thru the M.D. Ph.D. route?
 
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ScienceJunkie said:
dang...even thru the M.D. Ph.D. route?
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Lol. The MD/PhD route doesn't speed anything up. Well, it does when compared to getting both degrees separately but it certainly doesn't get you to a specialty any faster.

I hope to go the MD/PhD route and then a fast-track Heme/Onc Residency/Fellowship....so that's something like 14 years from now before I'll have an actual job? Crazy...
 
Funny. When I read the post, I figured you were talking about the physical and emotional toll a job like that would require. I don't think I could do that job for more than a few years before needing a looooong break. :(
 
ScienceJunkie said:
dang...even thru the M.D. Ph.D. route?
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Haha unless you're interested in primary care with no specialization (general internal med, general peds, family med), that's about as short as it gets. 3 year residency programs are the shortest out there, and unless you want to be a generalist, you have to specialize by doing a fellowship, which is usually 1-2 years. It seems long, but in comparison to other programs, such as surgery (5-7 years + possible 1-2 year fellowship), it's a walk in the park.
 
diosa428 said:
Haha unless you're interested in primary care with no specialization (general internal med, general peds, family med), that's about as short as it gets. 3 year residency programs are the shortest out there, and unless you want to be a generalist, you have to specialize by doing a fellowship, which is usually 1-2 years. It seems long, but in comparison to other programs, such as surgery (5-7 years + possible 1-2 year fellowship), it's a walk in the park.
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Pediatric specialties, including heme/onc, are 3 years after the 3 year pediatric residency. As noted, an MD/PhD does not change the need to do residency and fellowship.
 
LikeClockWork said:
Funny. When I read the post, I figured you were talking about the physical and emotional toll a job like that would require. I don't think I could do that job for more than a few years before needing a looooong break. :(
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well, that's why i want to do it. 1 of 330 children get some form of cancer, so it's pretty serious. im way into cancer research, and seeing the toll of cancer on such young patients would really motivate one in research.
 
ScienceJunkie said:
anybody have any thoughts on this? i'm hoping to pursue an M.D.-Ph.D. in pediatric oncology.

also, would pediatric oncology require additional years as a specialization? i'm assuming that it's the same as any specialization...
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That is the field I am going into (or plan too) and I am shadowing a peds oncologist now... She didn't do a PhD though... She did her basic Pediatric residency then had to do a 3 year fellowship (2 years of which are research)

Have you worked with oncology patients? It is a very hard field to be in, I would encourage you to do some volunteer work with kids with cancer before you go into it all
 
If you just want to do pediatric oncology and research only topics into and closely related to that field, you'll be perfectly fine with the MD and proper residency/fellowship.
 
If Peds Onc doesnt work out you can always do Plastic Surgery or Neurosurgery.

Its good to have a backup plan.
 
Dr JPH said:
If Peds Onc doesnt work out you can always do Plastic Surgery or Neurosurgery.

Its good to have a backup plan.
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You missed the </sarcasm> tag, man! And I think the OP was actually being quite serious too.
 
Dr JPH said:
If Peds Onc doesnt work out you can always do Plastic Surgery or Neurosurgery.

Its good to have a backup plan.
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Hahahahaha. Wasn't this guy talking about how he wasn't gonna take out his lip ring and cut his shoulder-length hair for interviews?
 
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Jew Alcindor said:
Hahahahaha. Wasn't this guy talking about how he wasn't gonna take out his lip ring and cut his shoulder-length hair for interviews?
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yeah, that's me :D

and it's an earing, dude...:rolleyes:....not a lip ring


...i get the sense that you guys think i'm d00med....LOL
 
ScienceJunkie said:
anybody have any thoughts on this? i'm hoping to pursue an M.D.-Ph.D. in pediatric oncology.

also, would pediatric oncology require additional years as a specialization? i'm assuming that it's the same as any specialization...
Click to expand...

Like an MD/PhD fellow in pediatric oncology once told me, "There's no sex like 'I just saved your child from cancer' sex."

No lie.
 
great field. The patient volume is relatively low, so most (MDs, MD-PhDs) have to do research anyway. The MD-PhD ped-oncs at my institution do research full-time, and then see patients for one day every 2-3 weeks.

Residency in peds is 3 years, with a 3-year fellowship in heme-onc.

I wouldn't worry about it being too depressing. The cure rates for kids are much better than for adults.
 
I know that roughly half of every female premed I have met is interested in pediatric oncology. I have to say it is possibly one of the most depressing fields around....it can be inspiring but I'd really fear becoming jaded. You are also limited to practice areas....not a big deal for a lot of people, but if you like smaller towns then tough luck.

It is a sexy one...that is for sure. The cure rates might be high for kids, but I have seen way too many kids fight cancer for 10 years of their life and then die. Crap like that would really get me down. It does take a different kind of person...considering this is a premed forum, I'd just wait till you get into med school and do rotations. ;)
 
potato51 said:
I wouldn't worry about it being too depressing. The cure rates for kids are much better than for adults.
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It is one of the few areas in medicine where you can have unequivocal success in curing disease. Peds onc people I've worked with are some of the most anal, micromanaging physicians in the hospital. To say they get very involved with their patients and families of their patients would be a gross understatement. If that sounds like you then more power to ya.
 
Gut Shot said:
It is one of the few areas in medicine where you can have unequivocal success in curing disease. Peds onc people I've worked with are some of the most anal, micromanaging physicians in the hospital. To say they get very involved with their patients and families of their patients would be a gross understatement. If that sounds like you then more power to ya.
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Please explain.
 
baylormed said:
Please explain.
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Cancers in children have high cure rates - I think, for some cancers, as high as 75%. Children tend to get cancers that are fairly easy to spot and relatively "easy" to cure. They don't get the cancers that are difficult to catch early on - ovarian, breast, pancreatic, lung etc. Pediatric cancers are also not the type that tend to metastasize very easily, which means that when they're cured, they're probably cured. (Mets are the biggest problem for most other cancers.) Pediatric oncology is still a tough job, but some people think that it's somewhat less emotionally draining than adult oncology.
 
baylormed said:
Please explain.
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Adult medicine is much less about cure and much more about management. We typically can't cure someone's hypertension, hypercholesterolemia or diabetes, but we can manage them. That's not to say definitive therapies and procedures don't exist, but on a day-to-day basis they comprise a smaller part of the physician's milieu than one might imagine.

Pediatric oncology appears to be a depressing field (and it sure as Hell can be), but overall there are more victories than failures. When Junior gets leukemia and you cure him... that's it. He's cured and he has the rest of his life to look forward to.
 
potato51 said:
great field. The patient volume is relatively low, so most (MDs, MD-PhDs) have to do research anyway. The MD-PhD ped-oncs at my institution do research full-time, and then see patients for one day every 2-3 weeks.

Residency in peds is 3 years, with a 3-year fellowship in heme-onc.
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exactly what i was looking for. thanks for the response.
 
ScienceJunkie said:
exactly what i was looking for. thanks for the response.
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Good luck man. Keep your eye on the prize and work your butt off. You have a long road ahead but nothing is impossible. Find that which drives you and remember it every day. :thumbup:
 
Wow I was looking into peds lately and I'm just now noticing how many subspecialties there are. I always thought that peds came in one flavor.

Ped onc sounds interesting now that I read this thread. Are some of the subspecialties like ped anesthesiology somewhat redundant with normal anesthesiologists running around or do ped surgeries use ped anesthesiologists exclusively?

Here's an interesting site, btw: http://www.aap.org/family/pedspecfactsheets.htm
 
Gut Shot said:
Adult medicine is much less about cure and much more about management. We typically can't cure someone's hypertension, hypercholesterolemia or diabetes, but we can manage them. That's not to say definitive therapies and procedures don't exist, but on a day-to-day basis they comprise a smaller part of the physician's milieu than one might imagine.

Pediatric oncology appears to be a depressing field (and it sure as Hell can be), but overall there are more victories than failures. When Junior gets leukemia and you cure him... that's it. He's cured and he has the rest of his life to look forward to.
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Mostly true. Junior will most likely be going to an oncologist for the rest of his life just to make sure stuff is in order. My sister had Hodgkin's disease when she was little and still goes for checkups on a fairly regular basis. (She is 35) Many of the friends she met for support during her stent at the hospital also tend to be the sick kids with medical problems. Probably a coincedence, since my sample size is so small. I have no doubts it is a rewarding field. It defintley isn't one that you go into for the money, which makes it admirable in itself.
 
MossPoh said:
My sister had Hodgkin's disease when she was little and still goes for checkups on a fairly regular basis.
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I clearly said leukemia... Hodgkin's is a lymphoma. Honestly.

Seriously, I did oversimplify a bit, but I hope everyone gets my drift.
 
MossPoh said:
Mostly true. Junior will most likely be going to an oncologist for the rest of his life just to make sure stuff is in order. My sister had Hodgkin's disease when she was little and still goes for checkups on a fairly regular basis. (She is 35) Many of the friends she met for support during her stent at the hospital also tend to be the sick kids with medical problems. Probably a coincedence, since my sample size is so small. I have no doubts it is a rewarding field. It defintley isn't one that you go into for the money, which makes it admirable in itself.
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Yes usually the cancer can be cured, but then little Susie has to deal with the side affects of chemo for the rest of their life.
 
This has been a very interesting thread to read. Funny thing is that I actually don't know what I'd like to do (currently applying to school), but when asked if I had to choose, I say Ped Onc.

I do have two questions though:

1 - Normal Oncologists do a 3 yr int med. res, and then 3 yrs in hem/onc... for Ped Onc, do you just not do the int. med. res?

2 - Do all ped. oncologists do research? If one was in a large city, could they get away with not doing that? I ask because I'm really not a huge research fan, and certainly don't want to spend 50% of my practicing career doing research...
 
1) Yes, you start off in Peds and do a fellowship in peds oncology. If you're concerned about doing adult vs. peds and not making up your mind, you can always do a combined Med/Peds residency (4 years)

2) I don't think it's possible to be involved in oncology without research. This doesn't mean sitting at a bench culturing cancer cell lines though. But you're probably going to be at least enrolling your patients in clinical trials and perhaps being involved in some clinical research of your own. Even oncology doctors I've seen at smaller community hospitals have a board of ongoing research projects they're involved in in which they try to enroll patients.
 
Good luck with that, OP. That's one of those specialties that looks good on paper/in principle but ends up being soul-crushing.
 
Taliesinrk said:
1 - Normal Oncologists do a 3 yr int med. res, and then 3 yrs in hem/onc... for Ped Onc, do you just not do the int. med. res?
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If you don't want to treat adults, you don't need to do a Internal Medicine residency.
 
ScienceJunkie said:
anybody have any thoughts on this? i'm hoping to pursue an M.D.-Ph.D. in pediatric oncology.

also, would pediatric oncology require additional years as a specialization? i'm assuming that it's the same as any specialization...
Click to expand...

I worked with 2 pediatric heme/onc physicians at the NIH. The one I was close to told me not to do it. These patients are usually chronic, and are with you for a longg time. When she was naming her own daughter, it took her and her husband a VERY long time to come up with a name that didn't remind them of one of their patients. Although, I might get into this field, not sure yet :)
 
koko_eats said:
Wow I was looking into peds lately and I'm just now noticing how many subspecialties there are. I always thought that peds came in one flavor.
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I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want any pediatrician to attempt open heart surgery on an infant with a congenital heart defect. You'll probably want to call in the specialist...
 
Davjc2009 said:
Yes usually the cancer can be cured, but then little Susie has to deal with the side affects of chemo for the rest of their life.
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I'll take the possible long term effects of chemo over the definite long term effects of cancer.
 
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