Peds Anesthesia Fellowship to be Two Years?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
somedumbDO said:
Not nasty it should be longer to include cardiac and yes it's true
Click to expand...
??????
I love me some single ventricle physiology. The reason why I didn't put CT peds high on the list is because they don't get to do their own echos....

Now what would be a point of mandatory cardiac for peds fellowship if you can't do your own TEEs?

Unless they are gonna start billing for the TEE too?
 
somedumbDO said:
Not nasty it should be longer to include cardiac and yes it's true
Click to expand...

What percentage of pediatric Fellowship trained anesthesiologists are actually doing peds cardiac? Out of a department of 25 to 30 anesthesiologists there might be 5 to 10 at the most that are consistently doing cardiac cases. Why should everyone else be required to spend an extra full year in fellowship, unless they are just being used for cheap labor? If you plan your fellowship properly I don’t think you need an extra year of cardiac. If you need more time doing cardiac it might mean that: A. your program’s cardiac volume is not very large or B. Your program has been wasting your time putting you in bread and butter cases, such as orthopedic surgeries and lap appys. I am all for people pursuing an extra year of cardiac because I do think there can be a lot to learn in that year if you are serious about a career in it but I think it is crazy to require everyone to spend an extra year doing it. There are a ton of pediatric fellowship trained anesthesiologists in mixed practices and private practice that will never touch a heart case. It doesn’t seem right to waste their time. An extra year of fellowship does not necessarily need to be devoted to cardiac either. I do think one can gain a lot from a pediatric pain fellowship particularly if you are working in a children’s hospital afterward.
 
skankhunt42 said:
Hey all,

Heard a nasty rumor that Peds Anesthesia fellowship may become a two year fellowship?

Anyone got any info on this?
Click to expand...
somedumbDO said:
Not nasty it should be longer to include cardiac and yes it's true
Click to expand...

It's nasty, ridiculous, and unnecessary. Maybe longer training for cardiac is worthwhile but if everything else can't be done in one year the program either has inadequate cases to support a fellowship or too many fellows to train adequately. A two year fellowship would just provide the same number of valuable cases (hearts, neonates, syndromes, etc.) just spread out over two years and diluted by bread and butter cases that the fellows should get attending pay to do.
It's not like these programs have more great cases than fellows. It's probably rare for a good case to go without a fellow (otherwise they'd already have increased their number of fellows).
If all the programs wanted to cut their number of fellows in half when they lengthen the training at least they could argue that the fellows will have access to twice the cases, but I guarantee that is not the case. What they really want is twice the number of workers making 50k/yr.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Yeah let's go ahead and do a 2 year fellowship and screw all of the peds fellows all the while the CRNAs are doing these cases with little training.

Great job ABA!

I am an ABA member, but this is the kind of stuff that drives me nuts and makes me want to drop out of it all together.

Pushing a 2 year fellowship is just a bunch of BS.

Sounds like cheap labor to me.
 
They just try to make our training longer and longer while paying less and less for it. What is the point? Incredibly stupid, selfish and shortsighted.

Jump through those hoops, clowns.
 
Last edited:
This seems to be a response to a perceived oversupply of pediatric trained people and a desire by the ivory towers to improve academic training among their people (the pediatricians have lots of dedicated research time which makes us look like academic slackers by comparison). There's been lots written on this but I didn't know it was even close to a done deal.

My guess is each program would take half or 3/4ths as many people per year - there's only so many cases so you certainly couldn't stay the same size. The extra training wouldn't necessarily be cardiac but probably be extra research time, pain, or regional to grow a niche.

If oversupply is the concern this will definitely help because I can say, for one, that as I was between peds and cardiac I definitely would have done cardiac if it meant one less year of training.
 
sevoflurane said:
Yeah let's go ahead and do a 2 year fellowship and screw all of the peds fellows all the while the CRNAs are doing these cases with little training.

Great job ABA!

I am an ABA member, but this is the kind of stuff that drives me nuts and makes me want to drop out of it all together.

Pushing a 2 year fellowship is just a bunch of BS.

Sounds like cheap labor to me.
Click to expand...
it is BS and unecessary. I find it funny that AA’s and CRNA’s can do any case (at our house) but the fellows will now have to do an additional year- It’s all about promoting the future culture of academia and nothing to do with clinical competency . Sure you will get better after another year of training but these fellowships will have QI , and OR management rotations, research months and other fluff- do you really need that to anesthetize a sick neonate? This is an agenda driven by the powers that be to state clinical care is an inferior priority to esoteric Academia, for the latter is what will separate you from the CRNA or AA ( I don’t believe this but the Ivory Tower Academicians do)- trust me I work side by side with them...when they actually work. Ok enough with the snark .
 
Agree with all above.

This is the first I’ve heard of this, can anyone verify this beyond just rumors? I doubt we’d see anything in the next 5 years - a formal announcement would need to be made by the ABA (EDIT: maybe more like the sponsoring society, SPA) that they are investigating it, and then an implementation timeline. For funding reasons, you can’t just drop a hammer like that.

An example - When I was in medical school they increased plastic surgery fellowship from 2 to 3 years (side note, the subspecialty went from ultra competitive to not so much overnight), it was something that took many years to implement but everyone saw it coming.

I can’t see the utility of this, for Peds or any subspecialty. Many opt for 3-6 (or a full year) of less-formalized super-fellowship training for Peds CT if one is interested. Making this a requirement would be ludicrous as the majority of Peds anesthesiologist don’t sniff CT.

Finally, every other fellowship out of residency is one year which makes them fairly popular. Why would Peds go that far out on a limb all alone?
 
Last edited:
ambiturner said:
This seems to be a response to a perceived oversupply of pediatric trained people and a desire by the ivory towers to improve academic training among their people (the pediatricians have lots of dedicated research time which makes us look like academic slackers by comparison). There's been lots written on this but I didn't know it was even close to a done deal.

My guess is each program would take half or 3/4ths as many people per year - there's only so many cases so you certainly couldn't stay the same size. The extra training wouldn't necessarily be cardiac but probably be extra research time, pain, or regional to grow a niche.

If oversupply is the concern this will definitely help because I can say, for one, that as I was between peds and cardiac I definitely would have done cardiac if it meant one less year of training.
Click to expand...

If it happens, that’s why it’s happening. All the peds fellowships for example are 3 years and have significant built in protected research time. Our peds critical care fellows graduate with more academic output than many of our faculty have in 5-10 years, while the peds anesthesia fellows are lucky to have an abstract and/or a 3rd author spot on someone else’s paper. The difference is dramatic and is a concern of the chair and chiefs. We’re not doing them any favors if they want to go out and compete for a good academic job. Talking them into a second research year is impossible.
It would serve many purposes.
It would decrease the number of fellows graduating, which is a known problem that individual programs won’t self correct.
It would allow for additional sub sub specialist training.
It would allow for the fellows to get protected research time to get their academic career jumpstarted like many other fellowships do.
It would probably hurt the folks that go on to do combined adult and low acuity private peds jobs, but they probably don’t need the fellowship anyway and if we lost some applicants, that’s OK. Probably better than OK.
Everyone would likely benefit from the decreased number of fellows looking for a job.
I can see this happening.


--
Il Destriero
 
Last edited:
IlDestriero said:
If it happens, that’s why it’s happening. All the peds fellowships for example are 3 years and have significant built in protected research time. Our peds critical care fellows graduate with more academic output than many of our faculty have in 5-10 years, while the peds anesthesia fellows are lucky to have an abstract and/or a 3rd author spot on someone else’s paper. The difference is dramatic and is a concern of the chair and chiefs. We’re not doing them any favors if they want to go out and compete for a good academic job. Talking them into a second research year is impossible.
It would serve many purposes.
It would decrease the number of fellows graduating, which is a known problem that individual programs won’t self correct.
It would allow for additional sub sub specialist training.
It would allow for the fellows to get protected research time to get their academic career jumpstarted like many other fellowships do.
It would probably hurt the folks that go on to do combined adult and low acuity private peds jobs, but they probably don’t need the fellowship anyway and if we lost some applicants, that’s OK. Probably better than OK.
Everyone would likely benefit from the decreased number of fellows looking for a job.
I can see this happening.


--
Il Destriero
Click to expand...

Not so sure about that point. (Except for the one year of transition) Programs would be loth to reduce the number cheap highly trained bodies that they could use. You can always find something "worthwhile" for them to do. This would be painful to the residents who don't want to do academics and have decided that they want to make peds their niche for getting and keeping a good job.
 
This is a joke, go to a program geared for Peds hearts, do them for 6 months solid, and you’ll be ready to fly. At least that’s what the attendings told me at one of the largest pediatric hospitals in the Midwest.

Medical training is turning into a never ending saga
 
Last edited:
dr doze said:
Not so sure about that point. (Except for the one year of transition) Programs would be loth to reduce the number cheap highly trained bodies that they could use. You can always find something "worthwhile" for them to do. This would be painful to the residents who don't want to do academics and have decided that they want to make peds their niche for getting and keeping a good job.
Click to expand...
There would probably be more fellowship spots than applicants so the numbers would automatically reduce. Already getting a fellowship is not all that competitive ....
 
Dont know about other places but peds is already unpopular here, with maybe 2 people a year applying to peds fellowship. This 2 year thing might just reduce it to zero.
 
IlDestriero said:
If it happens, that’s why it’s happening. All the peds fellowships for example are 3 years and have significant built in protected research time. Our peds critical care fellows graduate with more academic output than many of our faculty have in 5-10 years, while the peds anesthesia fellows are lucky to have an abstract and/or a 3rd author spot on someone else’s paper. The difference is dramatic and is a concern of the chair and chiefs. We’re not doing them any favors if they want to go out and compete for a good academic job. Talking them into a second research year is impossible.
It would serve many purposes.
It would decrease the number of fellows graduating, which is a known problem that individual programs won’t self correct.
It would allow for additional sub sub specialist training.
It would allow for the fellows to get protected research time to get their academic career jumpstarted like many other fellowships do.
It would probably hurt the folks that go on to do combined adult and low acuity private peds jobs, but they probably don’t need the fellowship anyway and if we lost some applicants, that’s OK. Probably better than OK.
Everyone would likely benefit from the decreased number of fellows looking for a job.
I can see this happening.


--
Il Destriero
Click to expand...
Most people go into fellowships to gain experience doing complex pediatric cases. IMO most residencies do not prepare one for this. The one year of fellowship should be spent getting as much clinical experience as possible, not publishing resume fluff. I get that academic chairs want more research published but there are simply not enough anesthesiologists interested in doing it. I predict that extending fellowship will backfire dramatically. There will be fewer and less quality applicants.
 
If the goal is to decrease the number of Peds fellows graduating, so as not to saturate the market, then it's a good idea. If it's to make research a priority for everyone, it's a good idea.

For the research aspect, I think a better idea would be to encourage fellows to take more research time (a second year), by subsidizing them better, and allowing them to spread their research and clinical education over two years. That way, those that actually want to do research will feel supported, and those that just want to learn how to take care of sick kids will not be pressured to produce papers simply for the sake of producing papers.

If the programs aren't providing enough subspecialty training during the single fellowship year, then maybe they need to review how they are assigning cases to fellows. When I was a resident rotating through the nearby childrens' hospital, residents and fellows were used almost interchangeably (everywhere except the pedi heart room). Fellows should not be spending a year doing mostly resident-level cases. Some time, certainly, but the bulk should be spent on sick neonates, peds cardiac, bizarre craniofacial, acute and chronic pain, etc. If programs need to downsize in order to provide adequate exposure to these cases for their fellows, then so be it.

Of course, I'm not a Peds anesthesiologist, so these are just my own half-cent.

Sent from my SM-G930V using SDN mobile
 
dannyboy1 said:
Most people go into fellowships to gain experience doing complex pediatric cases. IMO most residencies do not prepare one for this. The one year of fellowship should be spent getting as much clinical experience as possible, not publishing resume fluff. I get that academic chairs want more research published but there are simply not enough anesthesiologists interested in doing it. I predict that extending fellowship will backfire dramatically. There will be fewer and less quality applicants.
Click to expand...

Agree. And if academic chairs REALLY care about research, they should provide their faculty with dedicated time for research and other support.
It easy to waste other people's time (a year) and money (a year of attending pay) forcing fellows to spend months on research rotations that are unlikely to make much difference to their career paths. It's harder to put their own skin in the game and give research time and mentorship to faculty.
 
Extending a residency or fellowship because there is an oversupply/decreased demand for that particular career path is a terrible reason to make a resident or fellow forgo a years pay. You are asking them to leave $400k-$500k+ on the table after many many years of hard work. That’s an expensive “extra” year. Decreasing the amount of residency/fellowship spots is by far a better choice here. If a peds program needs 2 years to meet the minimum requirements they either don’t have enough cases or have too many residents. More likely however, they just want the free labor of experienced anesthesiologists that comes with a 2 years fellowship.

Pushing out papers during a fellowship year while important, is not the main goal of any fellowship. Fellowships are there to develop a particular skill set in that subspecialty. Jump starting an academic career should never be a central goal. No one in PP really cares about publications during residency training/fellowship. Our main concern is if you have the right skill set and you can do the job right and efficiently.

We have recently added a few more fellowship trained pediatric anesthesiologists to our peds panel. They are joining a mixed practice setting and will never be asked to do a single publication during their entire career with us.
 
Last edited:
Looks like nolagas and i posted the same content in our posts at the same time...
 
Not that long ago all of anesthesiology training was two years - and those graduates were deemed safe to take care of neonates and infants without pulse oximetry or end tidal CO2 (and didn't have to do endless MOCA). But now it's suggested that this same job requires six post graduate years of training?
 
kidthor said:
Not that long ago all of anesthesiology training was two years - and those graduates were deemed safe to take care of neonates and infants without pulse oximetry or end tidal CO2 (and didn't have to do endless MOCA). But now it's suggested that this same job requires six post graduate years of training?
Click to expand...

It was the late 1980s. (If that meets your definition of not that long ago.) The body of knowledge has greatly expanded since then and expectations were a lot lower.
 
dchz said:
??????
I love me some single ventricle physiology. The reason why I didn't put CT peds high on the list is because they don't get to do their own echos....

Now what would be a point of mandatory cardiac for peds fellowship if you can't do your own TEEs?

Unless they are gonna start billing for the TEE too?
Click to expand...

1 year is not enough to competently learn pediatric/congenital echo if starting from a position of never having touched a pedi probe
 
vector2 said:
1 year is not enough to competently learn pediatric/congenital echo if starting from a position of never having touched a pedi probe
Click to expand...

Agree, in fact most academic institutions require pediatric echo faculty to have an additional superfellowship year of echo/imaging beyond just Peds cardiology (3 years).

If you make Peds the ONLY fellowship that’s 2 rather than 1 year, interest will plummet - I’d bet less than 20% of current applicants would go for it unless you could make the fellows junior faculty allowing for a higher salary (currently forbidden by ACGME, which covers Peds fellowships). It’s a bad idea all around, I doubt it will happen anytime soon. Plus an exhaustive search found nothing from the SPA, ASA, ABA and the like so at best it’s an unfounded rumor.

@skankhunt42 are you going to post anything more about where you heard this or just going to start the rumor and drop off? From your posting history it looks like your currently an intern do you have any sources to cite or...
 
Last edited:
AdmiralChz said:
Agree, in fact most academic institutions require pediatric echo faculty to have an additional superfellowship year of echo/imaging beyond just Peds cardiology (3 years).

If you make Peds the ONLY fellowship that’s 2 rather than 1 year, interest will plummet - I’d bet less than 20% of current applicants would go for it unless you could make the fellows junior faculty allowing for a higher salary (currently forbidden by ACGME, which covers Peds fellowships). It’s a bad idea all around, I doubt it will happen anytime soon. Plus an exhaustive search found nothing from the SPA, ASA, ABA and the like so at best it’s an unfounded rumor.

@skankhunt42 are you going to post anything more about where you heard this or just going to start the rumor and drop off? From your posting history it looks like your currently an intern do you have any sources to cite or...
Click to expand...
The SAAAPM and Pediatric Anesthesia Leadership Coucil’s meeting we’re back at the beginning of the month in Chicago . This was indeed tabled at the meeting and some very influential people from a program I know well are pushing the two year fellowship. Ildest’s post sums up the pros and the reasons the academicians want an additional year. I personally disagree that this is needed as our fellows get all the index cases and more. I’d rather see an optional second year for those truly interested in academics , then you can have a hybrid year and jump start your academic career, make a few bucks extra (the shop wins by making even more off the second year fellow) and gets their molded academician. To force all folks interested in Pediatric Anesthesia to do two year fellowships has the potential to decrease the supply and thus increase the demand...job security.
Anecdotally, I know of a pedi program a few years ago that was requiring all new pedi fellowship grads to do a second non- ACGME pedi fellowship year in order to be considered for faculty...not one fellow took that bait and bolted for greener pastures. Now if all programs require it , the result may be different. Time will tell, but this is not a rumor.
 
Thanks for your post! This is the insider info we needed.

ghastly75 said:
I’d rather see an optional second year for those truly interested in academics , then you can have a hybrid year and jump start your academic career, make a few bucks extra (the shop wins by making even more off the second year fellow) and gets their molded academician.
Click to expand...

This sort of is already formalized, here (in 2015):

General Information on Advanced Fellowships

Clearly they want to take it a step farther, which is weird. There's a couple A&A articles in there that address it, but it's described as optional and mostly for academics so I guess the group wants to take it a step farther.
 
Anesthesiologists should take a similar path of ER, interventional cards, interventional pulm, IR, Interventional Nephrology, Vascular surgery. In order to protect the field you can't just randomly expand - moving to a two year fellowship without opening the door for a larger footprint. A second year must equate into practicing in new and different clinical arenas. If they moved to two years I would hope that the second year added board certification in Pediatric ICU or pediatric Sleep medicine, Pain medicine, Pedi neurology, Pedi ER or something.

It would help recruit more medical students if they knew you could get into Peds Anesthesia and then ICU or Peds ER from that route. It would keep the field sharp and build skills in the department as a cross-discipline.
 
sevoflurane said:
Pushing out papers during a fellowship year while important, is not the main goal of any fellowship. Fellowships are there to develop a particular skill set in that subspecialty. Jump starting an academic career should never be a central goal. No one in PP really cares about publications during residency training/fellowship. Our main concern is if you have the right skill set and you can do the job right and efficiently.

We have recently added a few more fellowship trained pediatric anesthesiologists to our peds panel. They are joining a mixed practice setting and will never be asked to do a single publication during their entire career with us.
Click to expand...

Amen to all of that.


When I was applying for CT fellowship, one institution where I interviewed took the opposite point of view. They actually had a derogatory/contemptuous word for people who were seeking fellowship training merely to become better anesthesiologists. I was a little bit taken aback by the insinuation that if you weren't aiming for an academic career producing papers, you were inferior to those who were, and wouldn't be a good fit for their program. Now, it's their program and if that's the kind of fellow they want, more power to them. Just seemed a little ... weird.

Maybe academic anesthesiologists get bashed a bit more than's fair around here, but part of me can't help but think that these guys, many of whom have never worked outside of academics, are forgetting that the primary purpose of academics isn't to make academicians, but to train physicians to be physicians.

About half of anesthesiology residency graduates do a fellowship year. Half of the anesthesiologists in this country aren't going to be in academics, doing research and publishing. Nobody sane wants that, or dreams that it should happen, or might happen. So why on earth would we want fellowships to be double in length for the express purpose of nurturing budding researchers? Hire those guys on as assistant professors and guide them as colleagues if you care so much about jump starting their research careers.
 
IlDestriero said:
Talking them into a second research year is impossible.
Click to expand...
Maybe they're wiser than you give them credit for ...


IlDestriero said:
It would probably hurt the folks that go on to do combined adult and low acuity private peds jobs, but they probably don’t need the fellowship anyway and if we lost some applicants, that’s OK. Probably better than OK.
Click to expand...

I'm surprised to see the dismissive attitude toward people who just want to be better doctors, and are willing to dedicate a year of their lives working like dogs to learn how.


I'm glad I got my fellowship in before someone in the CT anesthesia world was infected with this idea.
 
pgg said:
Maybe they're wiser than you give them credit for ...




I'm surprised to see the dismissive attitude toward people who just want to be better doctors, and are willing to dedicate a year of their lives working like dogs to learn how.


I'm glad I got my fellowship in before someone in the CT anesthesia world was infected with this idea.
Click to expand...

You have the rest of your career to learn how to be a better doctor. You don't need to slave away for another year of being an underpaid servant
 
I heard this all stems from the program director's national meeting a few weeks ago
ghastly75 said:
The SAAAPM and Pediatric Anesthesia Leadership Coucil’s meeting we’re back at the beginning of the month in Chicago . This was indeed tabled at the meeting and some very influential people from a program I know well are pushing the two year fellowship. Ildest’s post sums up the pros and the reasons the academicians want an additional year. I personally disagree that this is needed as our fellows get all the index cases and more. I’d rather see an optional second year for those truly interested in academics , then you can have a hybrid year and jump start your academic career, make a few bucks extra (the shop wins by making even more off the second year fellow) and gets their molded academician. To force all folks interested in Pediatric Anesthesia to do two year fellowships has the potential to decrease the supply and thus increase the demand...job security.
Anecdotally, I know of a pedi program a few years ago that was requiring all new pedi fellowship grads to do a second non- ACGME pedi fellowship year in order to be considered for faculty...not one fellow took that bait and bolted for greener pastures. Now if all programs require it , the result may be different. Time will tell, but this is not a rumor.
Click to expand...

I'm a current peds fellow, and my program director came back from the meeting in October basically stating exactly this. It was told to me it's basically certainly going to be an additional year, it'll just take a few years to get to effect. I've loved my almost 6 months in fellowship, and am very glad I did it, but I would have done CV or gone straight to private practice if it was two years. I can't imagine that many fellows aren't reaching their numbers since I've almost met all of them and I'm at what many would consider a "cush" program.
 
vector2 said:
1 year is not enough to competently learn pediatric/congenital echo if starting from a position of never having touched a pedi probe
Click to expand...

Solution is simple, everyone start being echo certified in residency. Echo is the future anyways, let's just do something actually worth it for the residents instead of making them give up 2 years to be cheap labor.
 
dchz said:
Solution is simple, everyone start being echo certified in residency. Echo is the future anyways, let's just do something actually worth it for the residents instead of making them give up 2 years to be cheap labor.
Click to expand...

That would turn echo certification into a meaningless rubber stamp. Just like AANA certification.
 
dchz said:
Solution is simple, everyone start being echo certified in residency. Echo is the future anyways, let's just do something actually worth it for the residents instead of making them give up 2 years to be cheap labor.
Click to expand...

Even if getting all residents advanced certified were feasible, it wouldn't significantly lower the hurdle for doing peds echo. I passed the advanced pte exam this year and I'd be surprised if I could competently perform the TTE/TEE required to be proficient in all pre- and post-surgical complex congenital even if I had another training year dedicated just to that alone. I'd venture right now that peds echo will always be the domain of pediatric cardiology.
 
Yeah anesthesiologists will pretty much never do operating room TEE / epicardials for complex congenital. I did adult cardiac and am advanced TEE certified and I would not touch that . It’s super specialized and for good reason. The cardiologists taking care of these kids also Really need to pay very close attention to the longitudinal evolution of the echo exams as the kids grow, and they won’t want to (and shouldn’t be asked to) give up control of the OR exams
 
Last edited:
Wow suprised at the responses. I talked to the fellowship director at my program (an ivory tower) and he confirms that for many of the reasons stated above that this is likely going to be happening. They seem to be aware of the hit in applicaitons this will cause and everyone seems a-ok with it. I heard that last year there were ~170 peds fellow graduates and only 75 job openings at academic programs.

As many have said, there are hybrid private jobs out there but you probably doing need to be peds fellowship trained to do this type of job (but the fellowship would put your name to the top of the pile of applicants for sure.)

I also think this is the academicians basically forcing people to be more academic if they want this fellowship. Trust me when I say it- this is very 'Peds-y'- everyone in the general peds world loves to train forever.

Oh- and I also heard this will be done in conjunction with CT and pain moving to two years. Seems everyone will move the goal posts together.
 
skankhunt42 said:
Wow suprised at the responses. I talked to the fellowship director at my program (an ivory tower) and he confirms that for many of the reasons stated above that this is likely going to be happening. They seem to be aware of the hit in applicaitons this will cause and everyone seems a-ok with it. I heard that last year there were ~170 peds fellow graduates and only 75 job openings at academic programs.

As many have said, there are hybrid private jobs out there but you probably doing need to be peds fellowship trained to do this type of job (but the fellowship would put your name to the top of the pile of applicants for sure.)

I also think this is the academicians basically forcing people to be more academic if they want this fellowship. Trust me when I say it- this is very 'Peds-y'- everyone in the general peds world loves to train forever.

Oh- and I also heard this will be done in conjunction with CT and pain moving to two years. Seems everyone will move the goal posts together.
Click to expand...

:barf:
 
ghastly75 said:
it is BS and unecessary. I find it funny that AA’s and CRNA’s can do any case (at our house) but the fellows will now have to do an additional year- It’s all about promoting the future culture of academia and nothing to do with clinical competency . Sure you will get better after another year of training but these fellowships will have QI , and OR management rotations, research months and other fluff- do you really need that to anesthetize a sick neonate? This is an agenda driven by the powers that be to state clinical care is an inferior priority to esoteric Academia, for the latter is what will separate you from the CRNA or AA ( I don’t believe this but the Ivory Tower Academicians do)- trust me I work side by side with them...when they actually work. Ok enough with the snark .
Click to expand...

I did an away rotation and learned the program started a policy to only to hire fellowship-trained anesthesiologists for faculty positions. I wonder if this will soon be a common trend across all academic institutions.
 
partydoc said:
I think I threw up a little
Click to expand...

frankenfield_whit-1505840155.jpg



This picture says it all...
 
At UW (Seattle) it is typical to only hired peds anesthesiologist who have done more than the 1-yr fellowship. You have to do another year as a super fellow before being hired. It does not have to be cardiac though and there are def fellows who stay to do the extra yr. Seattle Children's pays decent for the academic world and you are living in a city.
 
flightnurse2MD said:
I did an away rotation and learned the program started a policy to only to hire fellowship-trained anesthesiologists for faculty positions. I wonder if this will soon be a common trend across all academic institutions.
Click to expand...

Pretty much every academic job (and a lot of hospital based jobs) I ran across this year were only seeking fellowship trained people. Wouldn't be surprised if before too long the fellowship situation in anesthesia mimics radiology and it becomes a de facto 5 year residency
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

P
How to best prepare for Adult Cardiothoracic Anesthesia Fellowship during Anesthesiology Residency
Replies
4
Views
2K
CopaceticOne
CopaceticOne
D
Adult Cardiothoracic Anesthesia (ACTA) Fellowship 2026 Discussion
2 3
Replies
147
Views
39K
jiafwang
jiafwang
G
360 Anesthesia
Replies
11
Views
1K
aneftp
A
N
Vituity anesthesia?
Replies
40
Views
4K
thinkorswim
thinkorswim
S
Anesthesia
Replies
2
Views
1K
SuxDrugs&Rocuronium
SuxDrugs&Rocuronium
Top