peds EM salary

[rina33]

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If I do EM then peds-EM fellowship, how will my ultimate salary compare to regular EM docs? Anyone out there trained in peds-EM or thinking of it that might know some specifics on this?
Thanks!

 

[goongirl]

It depends on whether you're working in a regular ED or a peds-dedicated ED after your fellowship. If it's the regular ED and you're still seeing adults, you'll be paid the same and maybe a little more depending on if they want you really badly. But if you're working in a peds ED, expect a sharp pay cut. The last survey I read about it put the mean peds EM salary at 125K with the range from ~115-145K.

 

[DrQuinn]

I don't know if the paycut is that sharp, I can't imagine it that big. But do expect the same or perhaps a smaller paycheck than just EM practitioners. I only know this from my N of 3.

Q

 

[Joejitsu]

It is definitely a paycut. The Peds EM docs that work in our dedicated peds ED say 100/hr is a good salary and they are very very lucky if they get as high as 130.

 

[Hallm_7]

I don't see how it could be a pay cut. Actually, I can believe it happens, but it doesn't make any sense. A Peds EM doc will be board certified in both adult and peds EM. It seems if there was a big pay cut for Peds EM docs then they would just stay with regular EM jobs. A pay cut for peds EM docs is the equivalent of saying the average cardiologist/nephrologist/rheumatologist is payed less than the average internist who only practices internal medicine.

I guess one plausible possibility is that Peds EM docs are paid less than the average EM docs in the US because a higher percentage of dedicated Peds EDs are in academic environments where overall compensation is lower.

Another possibility is that Peds EM positions are in higher demand by physicians so hospitals can get by with paying them less.

 

[FoughtFyr]

I don't see how it could be a pay cut. Actually, I can believe it happens, but it doesn't make any sense. A Peds EM doc will be board certified in both adult and peds EM. It seems if there was a big pay cut for Peds EM docs then they would just stay with regular EM jobs. A pay cut for peds EM docs is the equivalent of saying the average cardiologist/nephrologist/rheumatologist is payed less than the average internist who only practices internal medicine.

I guess one plausible possibility is that Peds EM docs are paid less than the average EM docs in the US because a higher percentage of dedicated Peds EDs are in academic environments where overall compensation is lower.

Another possibility is that Peds EM positions are in higher demand by physicians so hospitals can get by with paying them less.

Actually, there is a pay cut. You are right, it doesn't make sense, but since Medicare/Medicaid reimbursement is lower for peds (literally, the same procedure done on an adult and child, the renumeration is roughly 40% less for the child) and the fact that the CMS fee structure system is used by many (if not most) health insurance companies, the money available for salaries is lower.

This is why the overwhelming majority of Peds EM boarded physicians started out in pediatrics (despite the fellowship being 3 years for them as opposed to 2 for EPs). For a pediatrician, Peds EM is usually a pay increase and freedom from the need to own a practice. For an EP it usually is a pay cut.

BTW - if you start out in Peds, you will end up certified in Peds and Peds EM (not in adult and peds EM as your post implies). Dual EM and Peds EM certification is only the result of EM followed by peds EM fellowship. The Peds/EM residencies leave you boarded in Peds and EM but NOT peds EM. (Goofy but true!)

Here are a couple of papers on point. Notice that peds hospitalists can't even generate enough revenue to cover their salaries (without having outpatient practices "on the side").

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/reprint/108/1/79.pdf

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/reprint/113/5/1437

Is this "fair" to the EP who is actually more qualified by virtue of fellowship training... no. But it is reality.

- H

 

[CueDoc]

It seems if there was a big pay cut for Peds EM docs then they would just stay with regular EM jobs. .

Here's a thought... maybe some people didn't go into medicine for the money? i dont know... just my thought

 

[Hallm_7]

(literally, the same procedure done on an adult and child, the renumeration is roughly 40% less for the child)

They must factor in weight in their calculations. Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if some CMS administrator used that logic.

This is why the overwhelming majority of Peds EM boarded physicians started out in pediatrics (despite the fellowship being 3 years for them as opposed to 2 for EPs). For a pediatrician, Peds EM is usually a pay increase and freedom from the need to own a practice. For an EP it usually is a pay cut.

BTW - if you start out in Peds, you will end up certified in Peds and Peds EM (not in adult and peds EM as your post implies). Dual EM and Peds EM certification is only the result of EM followed by peds EM fellowship. The Peds/EM residencies leave you boarded in Peds and EM but NOT peds EM. (Goofy but true!)

Good point. I was only considering EM residency + Peds EM fellowship. And I guess some things just don't make sense. Family practice docs are grossly underpaid compared to their specialist colleagues (and do more for the overall health of the country). It's not right, but it's just the way it is I guess.

 

[Toohotinvegas33]

Here's a thought... maybe some people didn't go into medicine for the money?

.....?????.......????......NAH. Maybe the MD/phd's