Penn or Tufts?

[student01]

I know all the 'will I get in' posts have turned into 'where should i go' but I'm really having a hard time deciding between Penn and Tufts. I've read the old posts on it and they just talk about the bad areas, philly etc. Any opinions about the two schools will be greatly appreciated!

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[LoF27]

which one ends up being cheaper? Penn's tuition is high, but cost of living in Philly is cheaper. Penn might be stronger didactically, but Tufts has a good clinical program. Even though Penn is an Ivy, I've always thought of it as one of the "lesser" Ivy's, if you know what I mean; some people don't even know it's an Ivy. Boston is way cooler than Philadelphia.

Sooo, all said, I think you should go with your gut. Which school is the best fit? I really don't think this is a case where one is a clear winner.

 

[Ething]

Even though Penn is an Ivy, I've always thought of it as one of the "lesser" Ivy's, if you know what I mean; some people don't even know it's an Ivy.
.

Ouch. Penn is a very well known Ivy I would say. Maybe not as well known as Harvard or Yale but it is up there with Columbia.

 

[Zanderale6]

I just cancelled an interview at Tufts in favor of attending the "lesser" Ivy.

 

[RozhonDDS]

Penn all the way

 

[countbluecars]

the "lesser" ivy gets my vote too. but hey, i'm a little biased at this point.

 

[DDSY]

Even though Penn is an Ivy, I've always thought of it as one of the "lesser" Ivy's, if you know what I mean; some people don't even know it's an Ivy.

Lol. Check out www.usnews.com (Haha, mentioned this way too many times [good thing we have no d-school rankings]). You'll see how highly Penn is thought of.

 

[Zanderale6]

Lol. Check out www.usnews.com (Haha, mentioned this way too many times [good thing we have no d-school rankings]). You'll see how highly Penn is thought of.

Hmmm. ... Interesting.

From an undergrad standpoint ... if Penn is ranked #4 out of the eight Ivy's and is still considered a "lesser" Ivy, then that means that Dartmouth, Columbia, Cornell, and Brown must be even "lesser-er" Ivy's.

 

[jackbauer!]

tufts vs. penn would be a tough decision. the price between the 2 is negligible when considering cost of living. i love boston and dunno much about philly....but i imagine it would be tough to turn down an ivy league school if the prices were the same.

jb!

 

[drhobie7]

upenn. philly is sweet. you can go to a top tier dental school or a middle tier one...easy decision.

 

[darius99]

i don't think a single person answered the OP's question lol...he said he wanted reasons other than the area

 

[student01]

upenn. philly is sweet. you can go to a top tier dental school or a middle tier one...easy decision.

is tufts really considered middle tier? i've only heard great things about it and that it was up there as one of the top schools... am i misinformed?

 

[Bicuspid]

I interviewed at Tufts and Penn. I thought Tufts was much better. Also, the reputation of Tufts in the Northeast in second to none. Depends where you want to practice after.

 

[I'mFillingFine]

is tufts really considered middle tier? i've only heard great things about it and that it was up there as one of the top schools... am i misinformed?

You are not misinformed. It is very highly regarded. I am sorry if I offend those attending UPenn, but I'm afraid that outside of Philly and those applying/attending Penn, it really is not considered an ivy league and many people even confuse it with Penn State. I applied there and was accepted and really loved it, but I knew that if I really cared about being considered to go to an "ivy", I'd constantly have to defend that it IS an ivy to people who didn't really care one way or another. The ONLY people who knew or knew its reputation were either alumni or, like I said, from the area.

Penn is an EXCELLENT school....I just think if you're going because it IS an ivy (which is really just an athletic association), you may feel that you're paying back 2000/month for 30 years for something that patients would have trusted regardless of where you go.

I also got into Tufts, by the way, which is VERY highly regarded, just like Penn. I ended up going to Buffalo for many reasons, one of which is that I'll save around $150,000. Whichever way you cut it, that's 150,000 sooner you're done paying off your loans!

As for which of the two I'd go? I grew up in Mass, so i was looking for a change....also, my dad went to Tufts and I somewhat wanted to blaze my own trail...for those reasons at least, I was leaning towards Penn (almost sent in my deposit.) Those are BAD reasons for declining a school, so I'll add that another big factor was that the Tufts students seemed a LOT more stressed than the other schools I interviewed at...they couldn't really say what they did for fun besides study, and though they seemed REALLY well-prepared when they graduated, I was looking for more of a balance between work and play. I guess I'm just not that serious! But it's an excellent place. Penn had some drawbacks, too...like there seemed to be lines waiting for clinic chairs and I saw a bit of a desperation to prove itself, but I was very impressed with it overall.

If you choose either one, you've made an excellent choice! Also inquire as to which scholarships you'd be eligible for, since both are extremely expensive in expensive cities. And don't forget that a 330K education while living in a niceish apartment will be 2000/month for 30 years! So be smart as you plan your living standards! Again, you can't go wrong with either one.

 

[shuna]

I think you should go to both of them

 

[H2OPOLODENT]

Hmmm. ... Interesting.

From an undergrad standpoint ... if Penn is ranked #4 out of the eight Ivy's and is still considered a "lesser" Ivy, then that means that Dartmouth, Columbia, Cornell, and Brown must be even "lesser-er" Ivy's.

Yeah, dude, you guys HAVE to stop applying undergraduate reputation to dental schools. They really have almost nothing to do with each other. Where you get the best dental education doesn't necessarily have anything to do with how the undergrad is ranked, or even reflect stupid stereotypes like being arrogant or overly concerned with proper spelling like many people here seem to apply to Ivy "types." Hell, 2 of the top 3 undergrad Ivys don't even have dental schools.

Bottom line, pick a dental school without taking undergrad name into consideration. I mean, look at med schools. If I remember correctly, UCSF (a PUBLIC school) was ranked number 1 last year.

 

[ddsjymaeng]

It is all up to your own preference...
for example
if u want the name then ivy should be your choice
if u like NY city go to either BUFFALO, NYU, COLUMBIA
But if u like NY city plus the name go COLUMBIA

simple? just go where u want... but there is no such best school for dental school... even med school...
every school has its ability to make one into the best dentist or doctor in the nation...
it all depends on how u study hard and practice hard clinically... and value yourself as the best...also your attitude towards helping others...
that is what I think about Health Services...

 

[Zanderale6]

Yeah, dude, you guys HAVE to stop applying undergraduate reputation to dental schools. They really have almost nothing to do with each other. Where you get the best dental education doesn't necessarily have anything to do with how the undergrad is ranked, or even reflect stupid stereotypes like being arrogant or overly concerned with proper spelling like many people here seem to apply to Ivy "types." Hell, 2 of the top 3 undergrad Ivys don't even have dental schools.

Bottom line, pick a dental school without taking undergrad name into consideration. I mean, look at med schools. If I remember correctly, UCSF (a PUBLIC school) was ranked number 1 last year.

... It wasn't MY decision to bring undergrad reputation into this thread. I just felt the need to take issue with someone assaulting the name of my future school.

I totally agree with you when you say that you shouldn't be looking for a name when you apply to dental school. It would be stupid to pick a school simply for it's undergrad reputation. ... For me, the most important thing was feeling comfortable. I attended a week-long course at Penn Dental Medicine this past summer and became thoroughly convinced that I wanted to attend (if accepted). The students aren't cutthroat and the faculty has a reputation for being incredibly helpful and approachable. Coming from a small (non-Ivy League) college for undergrad, I really sought a school with a positive learning environment.

 

[collegeboy30000]

...Also, the reputation of Tufts in the Northeast in second to none...

When you say this, is Tufts the only school on that list?

...If I remember correctly, UCSF (a PUBLIC school) was ranked number 1 last year...

I think there is another school that might give them competition, I forgot the schools name, starts with an "H" and ends with a "vard".

___________

I thought you were kidding when you started this thread, but I see you are not. So I'll answer with a straight face...I would go to that "lesser-athletic-associated-ivy-dental-school".

 

[I'mFillingFine]

if u like NY city go to either BUFFALO, NYU, COLUMBIA

As long as you don't mind an 8-hour commute to school every day!

 

[muz]

is it really neccessary to ask such absurd questions?....Penn or Tufts?
u leave Emericaaa...and say University of Pennsylvanis and people know THAT lesser/lesser-er Ivy!

 

[Whahoo]

Not to offend anyone, but I don't think Harvard is that hightly reguarded as a Dental School despite everything else...

When you say this, is Tufts the only school on that list?




I think there is another school that might give them competition, I forgot the schools name, starts with an "H" and ends with a "vard".

___________

I thought you were kidding when you started this thread, but I see you are not. So I'll answer with a straight face...I would go to that "lesser-athletic-associated-ivy-dental-school".

 

[collegeboy30000]

Not to offend anyone, but I don't think Harvard is that hightly reguarded as a Dental School despite everything else...

Yea say that again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and maybe that will come true for you.


[With respect to my previous reply it was concerning their Med school, someone said that UCSF has the number one rated Med school, yea sure.]

 

[bassman65]

I'm alittle different I think from alot of the posters on here because I actually spent alittle time in the "real world" after undergrad before going back to school to finish my predent requirements. And i have experience with having the big name college backing up my resume (i didn't go to an ivy, but my university still beats half of them every year in the undergrad rankings...think blue devil ) I'll admit that having a big name college helped open some doors for me when it came to gettin' job interviews, but it was up to ME to walk through the door and get the job. Any one here that is niave enough to think that going to a specific school will get them their specialty should spend alittle more time in undergrad to mature a bit more. Its your job to get yourself where you want to go, not the schools'.

Plus, everything is proportional. Lets say that Penn is a better school than Tufts. That means that they will probably bring in better students then Tufts. (Not saying this is true so I hope I don't offend anyone, just using it as an exampe) That also means the curve is going to be alot higher at Penn in terms of class rankings. This means while you might be a top 5 at Tufts but only top 30 at Penn. Or, you can be middle of the road at Tufts and be bottom of your class at Penn. So, as you can see, it doesn't really matter which one you go too. Also, as I've said in a previous thread, EVERYONE is the best at this level. If you don't think you can be at the top of your class at Tufts, going to Penn won't help you because you would be beat out by alot more people.

And one more thing, don't base your decision on what alot of predents say. Probably most of the people here haven't done a day of dental school yet so how the hell do they know. Get some opinions from some actually dental students and people that have completed the program. I've made this mistake before and I don't want you doing the same thing. As some others have said, pick the one that you are most comfortable at. Its four years of your life that you will have to spend there. I'm not trying to sway you either way, just trying to put things in prospective.

 

[collegeboy30000]

...the "real world"...

Did this 'real world' experience involve anything in the field of dentistry?

-No one said that a school will do all the talking, you are stating the obvious, of course it is up to the individual to make things happen.

-All I need to hear is you say, "Boom, and thats what thats all about" so I can call you John Madden.

...Any one here that is niave enough to think that going to a specific school will get them their specialty should spend alittle more time in undergrad to mature a bit more.

I thought it was after your undergrad that you became so enlighten.

And since you believe that the above is true then list the schools that you applied to.

 

[beezies]

Penn. It's cheaper and if you decide you want to specialize you've got a much better chance. Do it...listen to a fool first year.

As an aside, I know at least two people in my class that got into all the east coast schools and chose Tufts. It's really about personal preference.

 

[I'mFillingFine]

I'm alittle different I think from alot of the posters on here because I actually spent alittle time in the "real world" after undergrad before going back to school to finish my predent requirements.

This will be a benefit to you, but you'll be surprised how many people have done the same before dental school. A minority of my class (and most other schools I know) is fresh from undergrad, and many are married and have families. It's amazing how increased responsibility helps you realize that dentistry is a great career for a balanced life!

But it is a very good point that in undergrad, school name seems to be a big factor (you're worried about YOUR school's reputation and all the advisors talk about names all the freakin' time.) Once you're on your own, you realize that money is a huge factor and you think about what life is like AFTER school. As almost every dental student and dentist will say, school name will have NO effect on your patients.

Great choice in school, btw Feel free to ask any questions that arise!

 

[sumluck]

Yeah, dude, you guys HAVE to stop applying undergraduate reputation to dental schools. They really have almost nothing to do with each other. Where you get the best dental education doesn't necessarily have anything to do with how the undergrad is ranked, or even reflect stupid stereotypes like being arrogant or overly concerned with proper spelling like many people here seem to apply to Ivy "types." Hell, 2 of the top 3 undergrad Ivys don't even have dental schools.

Bottom line, pick a dental school without taking undergrad name into consideration. I mean, look at med schools. If I remember correctly, UCSF (a PUBLIC school) was ranked number 1 last year.

off topic, i know, but i just have to say it...UW at Seattle was and is the #1 ranked med school. I have to represent.

anyway, if you think you want to specialize prolly Penn, if you want to go gp then prolly Tufts. Boston would be a better living experience IMO...good luck

 

[velikimajmun]

off topic, i know, but i just have to say it...UW at Seattle was and is the #1 ranked med school. I have to represent.

US news has two different ranking systems for Med schools, thus the confusion.


UW is #1 for primary care but #7 for research, Harvard is #1 for research. UCSF is 10th on both lists.

 

[sumluck]

US news has two different ranking systems for Med schools, thus the confusion.


UW is #1 for primary care but #7 for research, Harvard is #1 for research. UCSF is 10th on both lists.

yeah, i know, i posted the links to US news a while back in some other thread..this discussion always seems to come around.
i'm not greedy...i'll take numbers 1 and 7 any day of the week. any and all institutions that are highly ranked are going to be fantastic. we all know this. some are nationally recognized, and others are more prestigous on a regional level. not that it really matters in the scheme of things...you are getting a top notch education at any one of these schools, period.

 

[Ething]

Guys, just look at the stats of the dental school. Most of them have stats about what pple do after they graduate. Last yr, about 35 % of the penn class went on to specialize. DONT LOOK AT HOW MANY PPLE GO INTO RESIDENCY. Many people do residency for general dentistry. Columbia has about 38 % specialty placement rate. Most of the schools in the country you have to be in the top 10-15 percent. Again, this might not be because of the school name. It could all just be because the students at these schools are slightly more competitive. All i know is that they told me during my interview at Penn that the school has huge connections to every specialty and if I really want to specialize and have decent grades, it really shouldnt be a problem getting in somewhere.

 

[collegeboy30000]

.... Columbia has about 38 % specialty placement rate. .....

Actually yea.

 

[H2OPOLODENT]

off topic, i know, but i just have to say it...UW at Seattle was and is the #1 ranked med school. I have to represent.

anyway, if you think you want to specialize prolly Penn, if you want to go gp then prolly Tufts. Boston would be a better living experience IMO...good luck

Yeah, well, you totally missed my point but proved it at the same time. The "Ivy name" doesn't dominate healthcare the way it dominates undergraduate education.

In reality, the "Ivy league" was founded as an athletic league of generally well-respected East Coast schools. Beyond that, every school should be looked at individually. The word "Ivy" shouldn't affect your decision, only the specific strengths of the individual school. Good luck to the OP.

 

[Zanderale6]

In reality, the "Ivy league" was founded as an athletic league of generally well-respected East Coast schools. Beyond that, every school should be looked at individually. The word "Ivy" shouldn't affect your decision, only the specific strengths of the individual school. Good luck to the OP.

Good point. A lot of people don't realize that the "Ivy League" isn't really all that ancient of a group. I'm pretty sure the "Ivy League" distinction was coined by a sports reporter in the 1930s!

Bottom Line: You should go where you feel most comfortable.

 

[H2OPOLODENT]

... It wasn't MY decision to bring undergrad reputation into this thread. I just felt the need to take issue with someone assaulting the name of my future school.

Yeah, I meant to quote you in my original rant in agreement with you. I found that previous comment about Penn being "a lesser ivy" a little rediculous. Maybe a better use of emoticons will help me get my point accross a little better.

 

[Lipoxygenase]

Yea say that again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and maybe that will come true for you.


[With respect to my previous reply it was concerning their Med school, someone said that UCSF has the number one rated Med school, yea sure.]

Well... this might be all subjective. This is somewhat off the topic but since you seem to believe that H spells out the magic for all people (in any field), I'll give you an example of the unexpected decision in your Harvard-worshiping world.

Back in 1997, one of my high school teachers spent his lag-year at my school teaching physics. He was in his early 20's. His father was a famous physicist back in 1940's (as in Manhattan-Project-scientist-famous), and he himself apparently had some talent in physics. But he wanted to pursue medicine instead so he applied to a few med schools. He got accepted to all including Harvard but not to UCSF which was the school of his dream. So he deferred one year, taught physics to kids for one year and applied to UCSF again the following year. And he actually ended up at UCSF med school. Now I don't know why he did that and even if he explained that to me and relayed his response to you, it won't prove a darn thing. But one thing I can assure you is that Harvard didn't spell the magic for him.

 

[blankguy]

It's not where you go but what you do. Obviously people who go to UPenn are very competitive in general hence UPenn reaps the benefit of the people that go there. It's reputation is based on what people over there have done. The same goes to Tufts, people coming out of there have very good grounding clinically. It's just a matter of where you feel the most comfortable and likelier to succeed. If a school has 15% specialization rate but you are more comfortable going there over a school that has say 25% specialization rate then go to the former school.
Also if you want to specialize then make sure you fall within that percentage of people. As a predent I find it a bit rash for me to decide on specializing. The biggest issue now is how to excel in dental school, only when I do that will I look at what dentistry has in store for me.

You can't go wrong with either one UPenn and Tufts. In fact Tufts is a direct competitor to UPenn in the student that it gets. I heard from one of a person that applied in the previous cycle that he didn't like the competitive atmosphere at UPenn.

 

[Booboohuevos]

Actually Harvard from what I've gathered has become more of a research based dental school and the academic side has suffered.

 

[gogiantsss]

Well... this might be all subjective. This is somewhat off the topic but since you seem to believe that H spells out the magic for all people (in any field), I'll give you an example of the unexpected decision in your Harvard-worshiping world.

Back in 1997, one of my high school teachers spent his lag-year at my school teaching physics. He was in his early 20's. His father was a famous physicist back in 1940's (as in Manhattan-Project-scientist-famous), and he himself apparently had some talent in physics. But he wanted to pursue medicine instead so he applied to a few med schools. He got accepted to all including Harvard but not to UCSF which was the school of his dream. So he deferred one year, taught physics to kids for one year and applied to UCSF again the following year. And he actually ended up at UCSF med school. Now I don't know why he did that and even if he explained that to me and relayed his response to you, it won't prove a darn thing. But one thing I can assure you is that Harvard didn't spell the magic for him.

A lot of this stuff is ANECDOTAL and in the end doesn't prove anything beyond personal preference.

We've all heard of someone turning down School A for School B. Does that make school B better?

Hardly.

 

[minnie33]

... It wasn't MY decision to bring undergrad reputation into this thread. I just felt the need to take issue with someone assaulting the name of my future school.

I totally agree with you when you say that you shouldn't be looking for a name when you apply to dental school. It would be stupid to pick a school simply for it's undergrad reputation. ... For me, the most important thing was feeling comfortable. I attended a week-long course at Penn Dental Medicine this past summer and became thoroughly convinced that I wanted to attend (if accepted). The students aren't cutthroat and the faculty has a reputation for being incredibly helpful and approachable. Coming from a small (non-Ivy League) college for undergrad, I really sought a school with a positive learning environment.

Zanderale6- do you still feel this way- not cut throat, positive learning environment? are you happy with your choice to go to penn....currently im deciding between upenn and tufts and am having a rough time deciding!