Penn versus Columbia

[Staples]

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Dear all,

Your advice has been invaluable over the past several months. In the final hours, I have found myself deciding between two places, Penn and Columbia. My impressions of the school are comparable. In terms of location, NYC is probably preferable. However, as someone who is interested in academia, I was wondering how people felt about the reputations of the two schools. I frankly thought the differences in reputation were minimal, but have recently been urged to attend Penn.

Is Penn considered noticably better than Columbia in the opinion of med students, residency directors, medical school faculty? Your advice is much appreciated. I will ultimately make the decision on a number of factors, but this is one of the issues with which I have been grappling.

Thank you,
Staples

 

[mellantro]

noticeably better? definitely not. i honestly think this decision comes down to location and overall feel for the school. you will land a great academic position from either school.

Dear all,

Your advice has been invaluable over the past several months. In the final hours, I have found myself deciding between two places, Penn and Columbia. My impressions of the school are comparable. In terms of location, NYC is probably preferable. However, as someone who is interested in academia, I was wondering how people felt about the reputations of the two schools. I frankly thought the differences in reputation were minimal, but have recently been urged to attend Penn.

Is Penn considered noticably better than Columbia in the opinion of med students, residency directors, medical school faculty? Your advice is much appreciated. I will ultimately make the decision on a number of factors, but this is one of the issues with which I have been grappling.

Thank you,
Staples

 

[TheFlash]

Yeah, the differences in reputation, although slightly in the favor of Penn, are negligible. What it really comes down to is curriculum and location. IMO, Penn has one of the best curriculum's in the country. 1.5 years of pre-clinical is perfect, and early rotations give you more time to choose the residency you want to pursue by rotating through Penn's amazing hospital network. You can bet that Penn's success with its curric is one of the reasons that prompted its in-state neighbor, UPitt, to start similar earlier clinical rotations! Columbia's curriculum is rigidly traditional, and gets beat out in both the pre-clinical and clinical training by Penn. However, Columbia is in New York (albeit a bit away from the real action in lower Manhattan) while Penn is in Philly. Both cities have their positives and negatives and they both have a lot of diversity to offer. I personally like NYC, but some many prefer Philly. That's a personal choice, really.

Best of luck in your decision making. A desirable dilemma! 🙂

 

[maswe12]

Dear all,

Your advice has been invaluable over the past several months. In the final hours, I have found myself deciding between two places, Penn and Columbia. My impressions of the school are comparable. In terms of location, NYC is probably preferable. However, as someone who is interested in academia, I was wondering how people felt about the reputations of the two schools. I frankly thought the differences in reputation were minimal, but have recently been urged to attend Penn.

Is Penn considered noticably better than Columbia in the opinion of med students, residency directors, medical school faculty? Your advice is much appreciated. I will ultimately make the decision on a number of factors, but this is one of the issues with which I have been grappling.

Thank you,
Staples

There is absolutely no difference in reputation between the two. At some point you will have to realize that the school name wont take you to your job in academic medicine--but what you do. Go wherever you want to go and where you can do your best. Its pretty silly to choose one over the other based on minimal differences in rankings that are pretty much irrelevant to your medical education anyway.

 

[Neuronix]

There is absolutely no difference in reputation between the two.

Agreed. The two schools have strengths in often overlapping, but sometimes different areas. A professional evaluating the reputation of either school is going to think of what angle they're coming from. If they're a neuroscience researcher, they're probably going to say Columbia is more prestigious than Penn overall. If they're an immunologist, they're probably going to say Penn is more presigious than Columbia overall. It becomes potentially, but not overwhelmingly, important if you do a MD/PhD or residency there. It's not important for medical school.

 

[Newquagmire]

If anything, I would have thought Columbia had a more recognizable name to the lay person

 

[thewebthsp]

I am making the exact same decision. This aint no picnic 🙂.

Well someone on the WL will be happy tho soon

 

[klooless]

If anything, I would have thought Columbia had a more recognizable name to the lay person

We're not talking about Yale/Harvard/Oxford here...as those are pretty much the only schools that *most* lay people have heard of. Furthermore, when the OP mentioned reputation, I'm sure s/he wasn't concerned about random people on the street who probably won't be the one's hiring...

Anyhow, I've recently talked to a couple of people who are facing this decision, and "location" is the biggest seller for Columbia as far as they are concerned. I personally can't stand NYC, which is one of the reasons why I didn't apply to Columbia, but that's neither here nor there.
In the end, we all talk about differences in curriculum and dollar signs, but did you meet any people at either institution (faculty, student or prospective) who you felt would support you in times of need--who'd keep you sane when med school had you flippin' out? That's what really sealed the deal with me and Penn, and I can rationalize that as the reason why a lot of people opt to attend schools in locations they find personally appealing. Because when you're getting destroyed by the details of medicine, it's the little things that make all the difference.

So, I'd just advise you to think on those things, and leave minor differences in reputation (and even curricular differences) in the dust...

 

[cjbosse]

Having attended Penn undergrad, I can honestly tell you that Penn Med is wonderful. The student affairs office is supportive, the students are supportive and active. The curriculum is one of the best. Penn hands down is the better school. More relax and supportive.

 

[Neuronix]

Having attended Penn undergrad, I can honestly tell you that Penn Med is wonderful. The student affairs office is supportive, the students are supportive and active. The curriculum is one of the best. Penn hands down is the better school. More relax and supportive.

As a current student, I can simply say, hah. It's a good school, but it's not the happy-land admissions makes it out to be. We have plenty of problems like every other med school.

 

[Newquagmire]

We're not talking about Yale/Harvard/Oxford here...as those are pretty much the only schools that *most* lay people have heard of. Furthermore, when the OP mentioned reputation, I'm sure s/he wasn't concerned about random people on the street who probably won't be the one's hiring...

Oxford. Ha. Buncha losers. Cambridge is much better in the biosciences 😛 Most lay people have probably heard of Princeton SOM...

Of course you're right though. And I'm inclined to agree with Neuronix that for a med program it probably doesn't matter all that much as you'd have as much potential to develop good contacts, show off your brains, and fit medical info into places you didn't think existed at both schools. The only thing I can offer is that if you're interested in research, find out which one is stronger in your area.

 

[doc luv]

I have friends at both schools, and from what I have seen the students at Penn seem to be more satisfied with their education. Both schools are similar in their reputation, but when I've gone to see my friend at Columbia the students there don't seem be as enthusiastic about the school. I've heard a lot of complaints about their curriculum and teaching. Also, even though it's NYC, the school is waaaaaay up north, not downtown Manhattan. Hope this helps!

 

[thewebthsp]

This decision has easily been one of the hardest in my life. I'm going to Penn, the reasons are long. But whew, I'm at least glad this deciding is over! 🙂

 

[ImmunoANT]

Oxford. Ha. Buncha losers. Cambridge is much better in the biosciences 😛 Most lay people have probably heard of Princeton SOM...

hah hah hah ... you always crack me up... I just remember my mom once asked me why I didn't apply to Princeton SOM? hah hah hah ....

Staples: made up your mind yet? 😀

 

[Thewonderer]

Penn students get protected very well on the ward. Whether you take that as a plus or a negative depends on you. But they definitely don't leave students out on the ward to dry.

 

[Grumpy Bear]

Penn students get protected very well on the ward. Whether you take that as a plus or a negative depends on you. But they definitely don't leave students out on the ward to dry.

Can you elaborate on that a little more? Do you mean protected from scut? Or are med students more chaperoned? Does this result in more or less actual responsibility and active participation on the ward?

 

[Newquagmire]

I just remember my mom once asked me why I didn't apply to Princeton SOM?

because it's not in the top 62 USNWR of course. i love asian parents.

 

[mentoz]

because it's not in the top 62 USNWR of course. i love asian parents.

*sigh* .. asian parents.

 

[Newquagmire]

*sigh* .. asian parents.

you know what else i love? blanket statements. let me rephrase: i love stereotypical asian parents. 😍

 

[musicman1991]

I went through this same decision a few years ago and I chose Penn. I stand by my decision.

YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW BENEFICIAL IT IS TO HAVE 1.5 years of ELECTIVES. The best years of med school are elective and you have 6 more months of this at Penn. That allows you to travel, strengthen your residency application, or explore careers. Columbia doesn't have this.

Second, Penn is part of a huge University and the med school is on campus, which means you will have access to all the facilities and you get to meet a lot of people. Coumbia is very isolated from NYC and the rest of Columbia campus and is in a horrible ghetto. Those familiar with Penn know about how nice U City has become.

Location. Philly is a great city to be a med student because it's cheap and there is enough to do. I grew up in NYC so I think NYC is a great town, but I can't afford to live and play there. If you think New York is the center of the universe then by all means go to New York because we at Penn can't stand your whining for 4 years (same applies to California people)

 

[thewebthsp]

I went through this same decision a few years ago and I chose Penn. I stand by my decision.

YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW BENEFICIAL IT IS TO HAVE 1.5 years of ELECTIVES. The best years of med school are elective and you have 6 more months of this at Penn. That allows you to travel, strengthen your residency application, or explore careers. Columbia doesn't have this.

Second, Penn is part of a huge University and the med school is on campus, which means you will have access to all the facilities and you get to meet a lot of people. Coumbia is very isolated from NYC and the rest of Columbia campus and is in a horrible ghetto. Those familiar with Penn know about how nice U City has become.

Dude, come on. Columbia is not in a ghetto. The subway system there is amazing. Philly has a good transportation network, but not as good nor as long running as New York. Just wanted to balance some of these statements...

Location. Philly is a great city to be a med student because it's cheap and there is enough to do. I grew up in NYC so I think NYC is a great town, but I can't afford to live and play there. If you think New York is the center of the universe then by all means go to New York because we at Penn can't stand your whining for 4 years (same applies to California people)

I agree that Philly is a good city. I also agree with cost assesment. Both schools however have incredible financial resources, although P&S will fund right off the bat, whereas you need to talk to administration at Penn to get the same level of funding.

In any event I chose Penn mainly due to location, because it's my hometown.

 

[Thewonderer]

Dude, come on. Columbia is not in a ghetto. The subway system there is amazing.

I don't think that people realize how far away columbia is away from the real actions. For goodness sake, it is 168th avenue up there. NYU is where the real action is. Cornell is at the upper east side, around 69th Avenue. Mt. Sinai is getting a bit far in the 100ish avenue range. And Columbia is almost 70 blocks further north (albeit one is on the east while the other one is on the west side). Seriously, you should try to do an away rotation at Columbia to find out. When it is 12am, after you party on mid-summer day, try to catch a subway that comes onces every half an hour in humid underground station..... It sucks!!!