Penn vs Cornell

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avekelsea

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So I'm wondering if any current students/alums of either school could answer some questions for me as I try to make my decision. I have a school that I'm leaning toward, but I feel like getting input would be beneficial and much appreciated!

1.Teaching style: Your opinion of the didactic (Penn) versus the PBL (Cornell)... are you happy with the teaching in your school or do you wish it was of a different style? Do you feel satisfied with the quality of education?

2. Location: Penn students, do you ever have time to make use of the great cultural resources of Philly? To go to plays, museums, etc? Cornell students, do you feel overly stir-crazy in Ithaca? Or does the large population of students make it somewhat more lively than it seems?

3. Post-school: What percentage of students go into practice vs. academia vs. pursue internship/residencies? Do students in your school have any particular difficulty in finding internship programs as compared with other schools?

4. Student body/quality of life: Characterize student body as a whole: Is it a diverse class? Competitive or collaborative? Are people more independent or school-oriented (aka very involved in school sponsored organizations and on-campus socializing)? Do you generally feel like your class is smart and capable?

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I am currently an undergraduate student at Ithaca College (across the hill from Cornell) and I worked at Cornell vet school.

Ithaca is an amazing town. There is always a lot of stuff going on (especially on Cornell campus) and it has way more energy than other towns its size. There are yearly festivals on the commons that are always tons of fun. The bars are all 21+ so the nightlife tends to be a bit nicer than some 18+ clubs. The area is gorgeous and its a biking/hiking/dog-walking utopia.

I have found the people at Cornell to be a bit... um... "uppity." This is of course not related to the vet school, but just the population in general. This may also be my bias coming from IC. We are all a lot more chill on this side of the hill. :D

I have had some friends that went to school here and had to transfer out because they were too bored. They were also from large cities in Asia and were expecting "NY" to mean "close to NYC." I am from a very rural area and am not used to tons of amenities at my front-door so I have been perfectly happy here. One thing you will never want for is food. Ithaca has amazing restaurants and a huge variety.


I know this didn't really answer most of your questions. Just adding my two cents. :)
 
So I'm wondering if any current students/alums of either school could answer some questions for me as I try to make my decision. I have a school that I'm leaning toward, but I feel like getting input would be beneficial and much appreciated!

1.Teaching style: Your opinion of the didactic (Penn) versus the PBL (Cornell)... are you happy with the teaching in your school or do you wish it was of a different style? Do you feel satisfied with the quality of education?

2. Location: Penn students, do you ever have time to make use of the great cultural resources of Philly? To go to plays, museums, etc? Cornell students, do you feel overly stir-crazy in Ithaca? Or does the large population of students make it somewhat more lively than it seems?

3. Post-school: What percentage of students go into practice vs. academia vs. pursue internship/residencies? Do students in your school have any particular difficulty in finding internship programs as compared with other schools?

4. Student body/quality of life: Characterize student body as a whole: Is it a diverse class? Competitive or collaborative? Are people more independent or school-oriented (aka very involved in school sponsored organizations and on-campus socializing)? Do you generally feel like your class is smart and capable?

Well, since its midnight and I have a final exam in .... 9 hours with a few more lectures to go through, I might as well answer as many of these as I can. NOt sure I can answer all of them and you could really find a lot about Penn already in other threads...we don't seem to see the Cornell kids on here as often as us PennWe's...I take it that means they are dying under the Cornell workload :p

anywho

1) I definitely appreciate the didactic learning style and I know many others specifically chose Penn over Cornell for didactic learning. But, really it's kind of hard to say which is better. I mean, I wanted didactic because...let's face it...that's what I'm used to and I was really wary about switching everything up and going into a PBL curriculum...I just didn't know how I'd like it/handle it etc. At least with didactic I knew what I was getting into (as much as anyone who hasn't been to vet school knows what they're getting into ;)).

2) Yes of course! Vet school is not a black hole that eats away your soul all the time! Our class really enjoys going out...I'd say once a week or so someone has won a happy hour at a bar in center city that people go to. I've had friends that took salsa classes, a group of us went to "Mega Bad Movie Night" at the Museum of Natural History, people go on the ghost tours, and lots of people just head into center city and meander around, especially on First Fridays when artists showcase their work. I know people that never go out with the group, people that only occassionally go out (me! I'm a little old lady and like to just veg on my couch most of the time) and people that go out all the time (BlacKat is a PARTY ANIMAL let me tell you ;) haha jk jk, she's just more of a social butterfly than I am). I also enjoy running along the river that goes by the art museum, I've been to Eastern State Penitentiary, theres a Halloween party at the Mutter museum...so much to do. And theres definitely time to partake in the events of the city. Maybe not the week before an exam but there are plenty of evenings or weekend afternoons to go and explore.

3) I have no personal experience with this and I don't know numbers but they tell us we will have no problems/the numbers are high/good things good things good things. I've no experience with this but I do know that we have events with alumni often who are practicing in the area and they often post job opportunities in the summer and for internships etc. But in terms of specifics, I don't know

4) I am constantly amazed by how supportive our class is. There is absolutely zero competitiveness that I have seen and I'm so happy about that. Everyone is really intelligent and so unique...you think you know someone and then one day they bust out their mad break dancing skills! In terms of diversity...well, there isn't much ethnic diversity...I don't know if thats unique for Penn or a general theme in veterinary medicine. But there is tons of diversity in terms of what people are interested in, where they are from, and the path they took to Penn Vet, whether traditional or non-traditional. I'd say our class is also very into school sponsored events...anytime there is a school sponsored happy hour or party you can bet a good portion of people are going, and our class is very involved in student organizations etc.

So yeah, that's all I can think of for now.

Some negatives: sometimes Philly smells. :( there are a lot of cruelty/animal fighting cases as the PSPCA :( first semester at Penn is ROUGH.

hmm thats all I can think of for now.
Ok gotta get back to studying!
 
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I can give you some location/culture perspective. I grew up in western New York and spent a lot of time in Ithaca. I currently live a bit north of Philly, too.

Ithaca is absolutely amazing if you're into a slightly more rural scene. The parks in the finger lakes are some of the nicest I've seen in America, and Cayuga lake is right outside of town.

The culture might be a bit juvenile for an adult student, as it's a pretty typical college town. Lots of bars, lots of stupid bullsh*t in the streets at night, lots of semi-******ed undergrads wandering around in pajamas. The Cornell students can be a bit hard to take, but thats true of any of the Ivy league students. The Ithaca college people balance it out.

Philly is urban sprawl, expensive and dangerous. Obviously I have a bias here, so note that. I hate Philadelphia.
 
I. The Cornell students can be a bit hard to take, but thats true of any of the Ivy league students. The Ithaca college people balance it out.

heeeey, no badmouthing the ancient 8, you're talking to a Columbia student here! :) haha, we can be pretty annoying though.

thanks guys, keep the info coming!
 
Philly is urban sprawl, expensive and dangerous. Obviously I have a bias here, so note that. I hate Philadelphia.

I lived in a suburb of Philly for a couple of years while I was in HS, and found the area (Newtown and thereabouts) to be relatively unfriendly compared to other places I've lived. It definitely wasn't for me.

I didn't mind Philly itself, though... but I don't know that I'd enjoy it quite so much if I were trying to find someplace decent to live on a vet school budget. I pretty much just went there for concerts, shows, and tourist-y stuff. There's definitely no shortage of things to do in the area.
 
The Cornell students can be a bit hard to take, but thats true of any of the Ivy league students. The Ithaca college people balance it out.


:D

Go Bombers!
 
Not a student at Penn vet. But I am a Master's student at UPenn currently...

I moved here from New York to take a job in Philadelphia and enroll at University of Pennsylvania and to tell you the truth, I cannot wait to leave. I did not apply to Penn vet for the sole reason that I dislike Philadelphia. It is a city where if you venture out of center city (or university city) it can get dicey.

I work in north Philly and I would not recommend walking around at night by yourself if you are unfamiliar with the area. My car has been broken into a few times over the past two years (though they haven't found anything of value to take..just smashing the window to go through my stuff.) If you do move here, make sure you leave your glovebox and center console open so potential thieves can *see* if it is worth it... :thumbup:

Additionally, there is a lot of open air drug dealing in Philadelphia (which you do not see in New York City any more, except for a perhaps a few isolated streets) which makes it all the more sketchy...

This is just my two-cents for what it is worth in Philadelphia. Although I know University of Pennsylvania Veterinary has a great reputation, I personally, given your fantastic two options, go for Cornell!!....:bow:
 
Ummm.... Pretty sure I've never seen "open air drug dealing" in University City or Center City (ie the areas where 95% of vet students live), nor do I feel that it's particularly dangerous if you use common sense. My neighborhood (University City) is mostly populated by young families, young professionals and grad students...and Penn Police officers on every block, every night from 5pm - 3am.

I wouldn't recommend wandering around in the middle of the night in any location.... :rolleyes:

Nope, Philly is not my favorite city in the world (mostly because the people who live here are disgusting and throw their nasty chicken wing bones all over the street, which I then have to pry out of my dog's mouth...and for some reason think that snow is an excuse to not clean up after their dogs...gross) but I've also really enjoyed living here. It's been an adventure and I personally think that everyone should experience something a little out of their comfort zone once in their life (I grew up in suburban NC and went to undergrad in rural VA).

I didn't apply to Cornell, so I can't really compare it to Philly, but go with your gut. We have several folks from NYC in my class -- if you want a more NYC-feel, I'd recommend living in the Fitler Square area. It's also super easy to pop up to NY for the weekend from here (my boyfriend lives in NYC) either by driving, taking the Bolt Bus/Megabus or the train. I try to get up there about once a month.
 
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1.Teaching style: Your opinion of the didactic (Penn) versus the PBL (Cornell)... are you happy with the teaching in your school or do you wish it was of a different style? Do you feel satisfied with the quality of education?

I am not at Penn or Cornell, but this question is really one you will have to answer for yourself. How do you best learn? My med school friends (practicing doctors, instructors, etc) have said that they feel students who learn best in lab settings or by ferretting out info themselves do better in PBL, while students who do well primarily passivly learning in lecture do best in didactic (though they personally feel the PBL schools have students better preprared to come into internships because there aren't many clear cut answers. ) Now, that is med school, but the PBL vet schools have based the move on med schools. Personally, I'm tragic at lecture learning, and I'd go for PBL in a heartbeat if I could have afforded it. They also said you do need to be able to self-start and know when to say when in PBL...becaues there is always more research/backgrounding you could do.

As for the rest, can't offer any advice (other than uppity with Cornell is likely balanced with Penn-we style at Penn ;)) I know students and vets from both (yay conferences and research) and have seen representations of every personality type imaginable from both. Also, undergrad feel can be completly different from grad studies feel, which can still be drasticly different than CVMs feel. I've spent time in both Ithaca and Philly, and like both places, but they are different feels, so it might depend on what you would prefer to do to escape vet school.
 
I wouldn't recommend wandering around in the middle of the night in any location.... :rolleyes:

And to give an opposite view, I have wandered around in Philly, NYC, London, Chicago, LA and quite a few other cities in the middle of the night. I do know more folks that were mugged in Philly than elsewhere, but I attribute that to foolishness (seriously, if you are dressed in nice clothes, waiting on public transport in the middle of the night with headphones in and reading a book, you really are making yourself a target, no matter what city) of the specific individuals. Drugs are just about everywhere, just not always so obvious to everyone. I wouldn't rank Philly as worse than any decently sized city for safety if you use your brain.

If you have pets, finding housing may differ between locations as well (depending on the pets, breeds, numbers, etc.)
 
I work in north Philly and I would not recommend walking around at night by yourself if you are unfamiliar with the area. My car has been broken into a few times over the past two years (though they haven't found anything of value to take..just smashing the window to go through my stuff.) If you do move here, make sure you leave your glovebox and center console open so potential thieves can *see* if it is worth it... :thumbup:

Additionally, there is a lot of open air drug dealing in Philadelphia (which you do not see in New York City any more, except for a perhaps a few isolated streets) which makes it all the more sketchy...

Everything you say is true but not really relevant to Penn. North Philly is a hole and I don't know any students who spend any significant time there. When I was growing up just outside of NYC you didn't find me wandering around Harlem either. And when I was in L.A. I avoided skid row in downtown and some of the gang areas in East L.A.

If there is a city, there is a part that you should avoid.

And I wandered around W. Philly in the middle of the night, and NYC and L.A, I was just aware of WHERE in those cities I would wander.

W. Philly is really not too bad.

On the other hand, I find people in Philly to be bitter and mean. Maybe I spent too many years out West, but I find they are worse than in most major cities. Personally I think the city has a huge inferiority complex (and an identity crises).

I don't think crime is really much of an issue in deciding which school to go. Urban vs Rural is a different story. If city living doesn't agree with you, then PERHAPS Penn is the wrong spot.

And didactic vs PBL is a MUCH bigger issue in my mind.
 
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(BlacKat is a PARTY ANIMAL let me tell you ;) haha jk jk, she's just more of a social butterfly than I am).

:laugh: hey now...i cut back this semester! lol

So at first i wasn't going to post here but there are an overwhelming number of comments about the environment in philly. SOV makes a good point, why are you walking to North Philly at night?!? uhh its obvious that you shouldnt walk to parts of the city that are known to not be as good. The only part of North Philly worth walking in at night is Northern Liberties and that is a TINY area..venture out of there and u are in a **** hole again. Now if you're talking about the part of philly that actually counts that is center city (the core of the city) which is completely fine to walk around at night because all of the restaurants and bars are open everywhere.

Also, open drug dealing?? hah Of course there are homeless people and you can see if someone is on drugs by the way they shake while smoking a cigarette, but ive never seen open drug dealing. That is ridiculous, do you know how many cops I see each day here? They literally have a cop on every block. It is impossible to walk somewhere in philly at any time of the day and not see a cop. You'd have to be a straight up ****** to deal opening.

And I agree with others, PBL vs. traditional learning is more important in making a decision. A city is a city and rural life is rural life, pretty obvious. No need to bash either place.

Edit: i also wanted to point this out. If you have ever lived in DC or NYC, do you ever take the metro or subway out to the bad areas? I bet most people have never seen the dangerous zones in these cities because they are so big and you know to avoid them. Philly is smaller, it is easier to reach the bad parts because it may be just 2 min driving, whereas in DC it could take 30 min driving. Know you're boundaries in w/e city you may be living in.

It's funny because if you compare philly to a rural area of course it is more dangerous. But if you compare philly to other cities.... I used to live in St. Louis (#1 most dangerous), Baltimore and DC have far worse areas, and just across the river from philly is NJ with Camden and Newark. Philly isn't even near the top on the dangerous cities lists. Gellabella thinks philly is a walk in the park because she got her PhD in one of the most dangerous cities in the US lol
 
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dangerousness is not really a big issue for me. I grew up in city and currently live outside of harlem and work in a sketchy part of northern manhattan and have scared off muggers multiple times. I'm a tough little thing and always have my pocket knife, haha. honestly, I'm far more frightened of driving than I am of walking in sketchy areas. so, I definitely am a city girl, which is making Penn look a lot more desirable to me currently, I just don't want to immediately rely on my instant "yuck, rural" reaction and make sure I give adequate thought to the academic quality of the various institutions.
 
Just giving my two-cents about the city...

The drug dealing in Philadelphia is rampant, but it is definitely avoidable seeing that most students live in by the university where there are a lot of police, including Penn police on their bikes everywhere. I have always felt extremely safe in/around UPenn.

But, like I said, go out of that area and it is a hole...as mentioned...I work in a terrible area, where I see violence and hear gunshots regularly, so I am quite biased...

I agree the program PBL vs. didactic format is much more of a concern. City vs. country is just a mindset... :cool:
 
OT: these comments got some Will Smith lyrics caught in my head.. :cool: "started makin trouble in my neighborhood.."
 
Gellabella thinks philly is a walk in the park because she got her PhD in one of the most dangerous cities in the US lol

:laugh: so true. None of this stuff phases me now. I just give everyone my :smuggrin: face and they leave me alone.

Seriously though, before I moved to Philly everyone said how dangerous it is. Yes. parts of it are bad but they are nowhere near anyplace I've ever found myself. Like BlacKat said, you obviously need to know where you are and where you're going and don't go wandering off into unknown neighborhoods at night all drunk and silly.

No ones broken into my car here, no ones physically assaulted me here, no one has shot a gun in my direction here, no one has run down a person and smashed their head into the sidewalk/stomped on their head repeatedly in front of me here...all things that happened to me in Newark. Life in Center City/University City is great. It's like sunshine and unicorns.

obviously your past experiences will dictate whether you see sunshine and unicorns or crack heads and chicken wing fairies.

I also find people in Philly to be rather pleasant! But after Newark I typically think anyone who says 'you're welcome' or 'thank you' or doesn't try to do you bodily harm is a nice person.

So. moral of the story. it's a city. there are city problems. I love it. Others hate it. thats the way it goes.

So unless you REALLY hate cities I encourage you to focus on other aspects of the schools that might sway you one way or the other.

And if you'd like to come down to Philly and walk around University City for yourself, I'd be happy to show you around
 
I definitely am a city girl, which is making Penn look a lot more desirable to me currently, I just don't want to immediately rely on my instant "yuck, rural" reaction and make sure I give adequate thought to the academic quality of the various institutions.

I would probably suggest you go to UPenn then. Most people I know that live here in Ithaca that come from a big city find that it is boring. A few people I know transferred out for that exact reason. There are a few that were super excited to be "out in the country" for a while and they did well. If you are used to a city and do not like to drive, Ithaca is not the place for you. There is public transport, but the TCAT is not as extensive as other places. Having a vehicle is not an essential, but it is a real pain without one.
 
I agree. I went to Wells, which is a half hour north of Ithaca, and I transferred out basically on the basis of being bored all the time (among other reasons) and DRAMA because when there isn't much to do...you'll find drama. As a Western NY-er myself, whenever I tell people from different states or countries, they ask me how NYC is...well, I wouldn't really know it's about 7 hours away haha. Ithaca is about an hour and a half from Syracuse, which is basically a boring city with a big (and nice) mall, but it's not a very safe city. Binghampton is close to the south maybe like an hour and a half (not really sure), and that is also not the best place in the world. So just make sure you're not telling yourself, well Ithaca is nice and kinda close to the city or some cities, cause it's really not. But Ithaca is really gorgeous and there is a lot of cool stuff, and BEAUTIFUL places to hike and just hang out and do homework. There's also a Dunkin Donuts...my favorite especially lol. But if you're a city person, you should really consider that Ithaca is not what you're used to as a city. However, PBL is totally my style and I would've loved that at Cornell. I had my reservations on applying because if I left wells, wouldn't I have wanted to leave Cornell? But that was just my thinking.
 
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Okay, I'm a first year vet student at Cornell, and I was once a graduate student at Penn. I lived in Center City Philly for just over a year and then just outside of Philly for two years after that. Penn was my first choice for vet school, and while I was accepted, I dragged my feet to Cornell because I'm instate here (from NY originally) and I wasn't willing to mess around with an extra $80K of debt. I'm sure some people who were around SDN at this time last year remember what a struggle it was for me to commit to Cornell.

With all that being said, I am so incredibly happy at Cornell it's hard for me to put into words. I was extremely skeptical of the PBL system before I came (one of the biggest reasons I initially preferred Penn). If you look at the Cornell c/o 2015 thread I talked a lot about my experience with it there so I'm not going to hash it all out again, but in short, I'm now sold on it. It's not easy (in fact it can be downright frustrating at times), but in the end it's SO worth it. After 12 weeks of the PBL style we had 10 weeks of straight didactic teaching, and I honestly don't think I've ever been so bored and learned so little (compared to the number of hours spent in class) in my entire educational career. PBL is definitely not the path of least resistance, but in my opinion it makes it SO much easier to actually retain the information in the long term. Everyone's experience with PBL is different and only you can decide how you'll handle it. Some of my classmates love it, some hate it, I'm somewhere in between but still think it's an extremely valuable system for learning and I feel really fortunate that I get to go through my veterinary education in this system. Did you come to any of the information session weekends at Cornell? If so you've had a taste of the PBL system, so that should help you decide if you think it's something you could live with.

Another thing I really really love about Cornell is how much hands on experience with live animals we get as part of the core curriculum RIGHT AWAY - literally starting the first week. For the first 12 weeks of first semester, we had 2-3 labs each week in which we practiced doing physical exams on several different small and large animal species. In December we learned how to dehorn calves and each of us got to nerve block and dehorn 2 calves on our own (with supervision, of course). We also (as part of the curriculum) get to go to the county shelter to do intake exams on animals there. As with most/all schools, there are also countless opportunities for hands on experience outside of the curriculum (clubs, wet labs, etc), but I love how Cornell makes sure we start getting that kind of experience right out of the gate. The construction of the curriculum is really quite ingenious, because whatever region of the body we're learning about in "block 1" (anatomy/radiology/histology/embryology), that same week our physical exam labs focus on that same body region, which further reinforces everything we're learning and provides a real-life context in which to understand and remember everything. I can't say enough about it, really.

Like I said, I came from Philly and its surrounding area - I loved living there. Although I grew up in NY, at this point I consider Philly to be my true home. Assuming I can get a job/internship there after graduation, I plan on returning to Philly after vet school. I didn't expect to like Ithaca, which was another reason I dragged my feet to Cornell. I've been pleasantly surprised. I LOVE Ithaca. Yeah, it's cold and it snows a lot, and yeah, it's in the middle of nowhere, but I find there are plenty of things going on to keep me entertained. There are lots of great restaurants and bars downtown and as someone already mentioned, plenty of outdoor activities, weekend festivals, etc. going on ALL year round. If you like to ski, there's Greek Peak about 20-30 minutes away. For the amount of free time I actually have (very little, between school and taking care of my horse who is currently laid up with a humeral fracture...) Ithaca has plenty going on to keep me busy without becoming a distraction.

I can't really say much about post-grad life, but as far as my class (and the other classes in the vet school) goes, I have no complaints. There are definitely plenty of "gunners," but not so much in the competitive sense. They just study all the time and work really hard because they "have to have a 3.5 RIGHT NOW in order to get a surgery residency 5 years from now," but it's not like they're ripping pages out of textbooks so no one else can use them -and honestly the majority of my class aren't "gunners." Everyone is extremely helpful and supportive of one another, and I would feel comfortable going to any of my classmates to ask for help with something (whether in school or out). Everyone works hard together and likes to have fun together as well.

That's pretty much it - sorry for the length! Feel free to PM me with any questions. Good luck!
 
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... I dragged my feet to Cornell.

You might be one of the only people in history to utter that phrase.

But, seriously, that was one of the most informative, useful posts I've ever read on this board.

Also, Cornell should comp you some tuition, because you probably just convinced about 10 people to apply.
 
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Turnbackhelly, I am so, so, so glad that you're happy now with your decision! :) I honestly wish that Penn had more PBL because I think I learn a lot better when I'm more engaged in class, but there are lots of folks in my class who came to Penn because it is almost all didactic.

Personal preference, I suppose, and something that the OP will have to weigh as part of her decision!
 
You might be one of the only people in history to utter that phrase.

But, seriously, that was one of the most informative, useful posts I've ever read on this board.

Also, Cornell should comp you some tuition, because you probably just convinced about 10 people to apply.

aww thanks! i'm glad you found it useful. i do my best to put in my 2 cents for Cornell since there aren't too many of us around SDN. that was a bit frustrating for me last year (the relative lack of current Cornell students to provide feedback), so i try to do my part. :) i know prospective students hear lots of "this school was my dream school, i got in, and i love it!" but i think it's often more useful to hear from someone who ISN'T at their dream school but is totally happy just the same.

i know how crazy it sounds for me to say i dragged my feet here... i literally cried about it pretty consistently for a few weeks. it's not that i didn't want to go to cornell - i just wanted to go to penn a LOT more, and actually being accepted and having the option to was torture. all of my friends told me i was being completely ridiculous every chance they got (and i knew they were right). i also couldn't really believe how i reacted to getting into cornell ("YAY!" and then 20 minutes later "****... i guess i kind of have to go there..." followed by 2 months pouting), but at the time my heart really was in philly at penn.

and haha, i WISH cornell would comp my tuition. but i'd also settle for lots of people wanting to come here! it's a wonderful place. :love:
 
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I worked in North Philly for a year - no problems. Walked from my work to the store for lunch, drove home late at night - no problems. I've taken the subway a million times - no problems and a couple funny conversations. I think if you are smart you are not very likely to have issues. Most of the crime is personal - so if you don't owe a sketchy person money or sleep with their girlfriend you'll probably be fine. Oh - and don't provoke road rage haha. That was the only time I almost got myself in trouble...

It's weird, I hated Philly when I moved here but I kinda love it now. The people here do seem tougher or meaner than other places at first but once you talk to them most people are actually cool - just very blunt and expressive. I don't know, I feel way more comfortable in a really diverse place like Philly than somewhere where everyone looks the same (not saying that about Cornell - I have no idea). I am actually a lot more comfortable in my neighborhood (border of UCity and true W. Philly) than I am walking around Penn's campus with all the undergrads. And Philly is a pretty liberal, accepting place... I have walked around plenty holding hands with girlfriends (I'm a girl) and have yet to really even encounter a dirty look. I do wish it was cleaner and greener here though. It is also a very pet friendly city (and very pit bull friendly which is important for me). Especially the area around the vet school is great for pets.
 
aww thanks! i'm glad you found it useful. i do my best to put in my 2 cents for Cornell since there aren't too many of us around SDN. that was a bit frustrating for me last year (the relative lack of current Cornell students to provide feedback), so i try to do my part. :) i know prospective students hear lots of "this school was my dream school, i got in, and i love it!" but i think it's often more useful to hear from someone who ISN'T at their dream school but is totally happy just the same.

i know how crazy it sounds for me to say i dragged my feet here... i literally cried about it pretty consistently for a few weeks. it's not that i didn't want to go to cornell - i just wanted to go to penn a LOT more, and actually being accepted and having the option to was torture. all of my friends told me i was being completely ridiculous every chance they got (and i knew they were right). i also couldn't really believe how i reacted to getting into cornell ("YAY!" and then 20 minutes later "****... i guess i kind of have to go there..." followed by 2 months pouting), but at the time my heart really was in philly at penn.

and haha, i WISH cornell would comp my tuition. but i'd also settle for lots of people wanting to come here! it's a wonderful place. :love:

This thread has got me nostalgic for Ithaca. I had a camping trip at the lake planned for july, but I might take a day trip and hike around Buttermilk falls when it finally warms up.

Also, I would kick a baby through field goal posts to have my personal dilemma be Penn vs Cornell.

But, in all seriousness, I'm glad it worked out for you as well as it has. It's nice to hear a success story, always.
 
I have walked around plenty holding hands with girlfriends (I'm a girl) and have yet to really even encounter a dirty look.

ah, so you're one of those :) tell me, how's the lesbian scene in philly and/or at penn? it's pretty active here in nyc, I'm used to having a pretty decent number of gay bars to choose from. do they do pride in the summer?


yeah, I really am trying to think about whether I like PBL or not.I like it in theory (yeah, I went to admitted students day) and see that it would be valuable in making a good clinician, but I tend to learn independently. I don't know if that's necessarily how I learn BEST, but that's what I'm used to. my main problem is that sometimes I get easily frustrated when working in groups, like if it's a journal club type thing or recitation and people spend too long focusing on irrelevant details or are too repetitive or slow. I almost always skip recitations and the like.


and yes, I certainly feel quite lucky to be able to choose between such quality institutions.
 
I have been obsessed with Penn forever. I am from Philadelphia (the city not the surrounding area) and I love it. I love the city, love the atmosphere and the pride. Of course I don't love all the people that live here or everything that goes on in the bad neighborhoods but those are things that happen in any city as has been previously stated. I went to high school in north philly and I played sports so I often left school after dark. Even in what is considered the most dangerous part of the city I have always felt safe. It is definitely not for everyone and I am definitely biased because I grew up here but it is definitely a place you could grow accustomed to.

So I have always wanted to go to Penn for vet school. I am hearing a lot of conflicting things from the vets I work for that say Penn is not all I have it cracked up to be. I am told that Penn does not give you the clinical experience you need for life after vet school and this makes me very sad. Can some one please correct this rumor for me??

Thanks!
 
I am told that Penn does not give you the clinical experience you need for life after vet school and this makes me very sad. Can some one please correct this rumor for me??

Thanks!

:laugh: that is interesting considering we have enormous case loads and people from other schools come down to penn to get more experience. Case load, combined with the new clinical program for second years, (and the regular clinical course we have first year), I'm extremely confident I'll be well prepared even though I came into vet school with only a research background.
 
ah, so you're one of those :) tell me, how's the lesbian scene in philly and/or at penn? it's pretty active here in nyc, I'm used to having a pretty decent number of gay bars to choose from. do they do pride in the summer?

they have lots of gay bars to choose from! they even have a rainbow street/area. I have yet to go there though :( But i love going to gay bar karaoke!! everyone is sooooooooo nice!
 
yeah, I really am trying to think about whether I like PBL or not.I like it in theory (yeah, I went to admitted students day) and see that it would be valuable in making a good clinician, but I tend to learn independently. I don't know if that's necessarily how I learn BEST, but that's what I'm used to. my main problem is that sometimes I get easily frustrated when working in groups, like if it's a journal club type thing or recitation and people spend too long focusing on irrelevant details or are too repetitive or slow. I almost always skip recitations and the like.

just wanted to put this out there - in my experience, PBL learning has been far more independent than group-oriented. yes, you have tutor group several times a week, but the majority of my actual learning has taken place on my own (of course not counting dissection and all the other labs, which will probably be group-oriented no matter where you go). tutor group is really for going through the case and deciding what it is you need to learn from it (your faculty tutor is a huge help here, to make sure you're setting out to learn the right things). then you go home (or to the library, or wherever you like to study) on your own with your list of learning issues and you go to town. of course if the amount of time spent in tutor group (i'd say 4-5 hours a week, tops) is more than you prefer that's okay, but in terms of your actual learning i'd say the bulk of it is done on your own, which is why some people feel PBL isn't for them. it's hard to really get a good feel for PBL with just the one mock session they give you at the information session. it does take some getting used to and it's hard to imagine how it actually works until you're immersed in it.

hope that helps. good luck with your decision! you really can't go wrong at this point. :)
 
I am told that Penn does not give you the clinical experience you need for life after vet school and this makes me very sad. Can some one please correct this rumor for me??

Thanks!

So, from what I hear, Penn produces really great "thinking" vets -- IE vets that can really think thru a problem, come up with a list of differentials, and work up the case.

It has been said that Penn student clinical skills aren't necessarily the best -- for what it's worth, the equine vets I've hung out with have always been most impressed by the clinical skills of students from UGA.

All of that being said, I do think that the school (and students) now recognize this fact and are working on it.

For the motivated student, there are tons of opportunities to get more hands on experience. For example, there is only 1 spay surgery in the core curriculum, but there are lots of opportunities for more surgical experience thru the Shelter Medicine Club, elective courses, and 4th year rotations. Lots of students also take trips over the summer thru organizations like RAVS or World Vets. The clubs are also really involved and put together some great wet labs. I've also recognized this fact and arranged lots of externships over the summers.

The cutbacks in staffing (due to the budget cuts) have also probably helped this...Students are responsible for more treatments, which requires more "hands on" time.

There is also a new Community Practice -- still in it's early stages (and who knows where it is going from here), but it was largely created in response to a desire from the students to have more primary case responsibility, and more exposure to "normal" diseases of dogs/cats. For example, it's pretty rare that you'd see a normal, run-of-the-mill ear infection at the Penn Teaching Hospital -- but with the community practice, you're more likely to see stuff like that.

Finally, there was a big push to get students into the clinics earlier which resulted in the creation of a new course this year. 2nd year students now head into VHUP or out to New Bolton ~1 afternoon/week and hang out with 4th years and help with treatments. Again, this is a brand new program, so it's not without it's faults, but at least it's a step in the right direction.

So, you're right -- Penn does have that reputation... but they're aware of the problem and are taking steps to rectify it. If that isn't enough for you, there are lots of opportunities to pursue on your own :)
 
I am told that Penn does not give you the clinical experience you need for life after vet school and this makes me very sad. Can some one please correct this rumor for me??

Thanks!

I'll just say this. I know a 4th year Penn student and when they headed out for all their externships (starting last Spring and going through October - I think around 12 weeks' worth out at various practices all over the country) I asked them well, what do you think? Was it a shocker getting out there in the real world? Did you feel well-prepared?

This person has not hesitated to ***ch about poor quality professors (brilliant researchers who cannot teach) so I knew I'd get an earful.

The reply? "I have to say I was very well prepared for the real world. Penn did a good job." And this was obviously true: this person got their # 1 internship selection for next year, and received job offers for after graduation from most of the places they externed.

So there you go.
 
So, from what I hear, Penn produces really great "thinking" vets -- IE vets that can really think thru a problem, come up with a list of differentials, and work up the case.

I think this is what makes Penn graduates in high demand and is one of the biggest pluses of a Penn education.
 
they have lots of gay bars to choose from! they even have a rainbow street/area. I have yet to go there though :( But i love going to gay bar karaoke!! everyone is sooooooooo nice!

yay! that will help me not miss the west village too much. is there any queer organization at penn vet, do you know?
 
There is an LGVMA at the vet school although I have not heard anything from them this year. The Penn campus itself has (what I have heard is) a really good LGBTQ center.
And yes there is pride although I think it is in the fall more than the summer.

Sorry I'm kind of new to this so I don't know too much about school / community stuff yet.

ETA: Like BK said there is a gayborhood in part of center city where all the street signs have rainbows :)
 
Hi, I just wanted to bump this thread because I've been trying to compare Penn and Cornell, and make a decision between the two. I know that Penn has traditional lecture/didactic learning while Cornell has PBL (small group , case based) and also traditional lecture depending on the topic. I think I would really like the PBL because it is engaging. Also, because it is "case based learning", I will always have that reminder/application of the lecture, so will be energetic, motivated, and interested in lecture.

How much PBL/small group learning/case based learning does Cornell really do? From the accepted students day, it seemed like some blocks have the PBL/small group learning while other blocks are just straight lectures. Hypothetically, I don't want to go with Cornell because of PBL/small group learning and then it only takes place a little bit in block one and only a few other times/ is mostly lectures anyway.

Is Penn really only lectures all day for the first 2.5 years? I mean I know there are labs. So, say everyday is 8am-2pm lectures then 2pm-5pm labs every day? Is there case based learning? I read above that Penn is known for making really good thinkers and problem solvers. I feel like this is the goal of Cornell's PBL. I just feel like Cornell's PBL sounds so much more stimulating than lectures constantly.

Also, I learned that Cornell does exams a number of different ways (essay, oral, multiple choice) depending on how it was taught. This also appeals to me because I feel at times I misinterpret a multiple choice question but understand the topic... Does Penn only do multiple choice? Does Cornell really do a mixture of those testing methods or is it mostly just multiple choice?

Other conceptions I've gained if anyone disagrees/agrees at all...
-Penn has a really strong sense of unity within the class (cornell not sure about this) but this also probably varies from person to person and maybe cannot be generalized
-Cornell has really good hands on experience from week 1 in curriculum. Penn...I'm not sure about---I know this was an issue a few years ago, and they have been working to improve the curriculum. Have they?? How have they changed the curriculum and when did they make these changes?
-Penn has more research opportunities because it has several campuses (medical, dental, etc) to join various research topics
-Cornell has a really strong sense of professional collaboration and openness (just a sense I got from the small group PBL)
-Cornell often has class that ends at 2pm so afternoons are free to study learning issues while Penn always has class from 8-5pm.

Sorry that was really long but if anyone has any thoughts on anything I said, corrections, answers...I would appreciate them. Thank you.
 
In regards to PBL, Penn is working on improving that but the majority of it is still a traditional lecture format. I'm not 100% sure of changes that have been made to first two years of courses (maybe someone in those years will chime in), but there was more case based courses in the 3rd year electives. That being said, I don't necessarily think I've been placed at a disadvantage. I recently matched at my top program despite being in the bottom of the class. I will say that quite a few clinicians will work cases into their lectures, so while it is not truly PBL in the sense that other schools have, they do try to give you a case presentation to go over the topics they are covering.

For hands on stuff, I posted a fairly detailed bit in the Penn c/o 2020 applicants page, so check there. I'm too tired and lazy to paste it, retype it out.

Exams, most of it is multiple choice. There are some more written portions of tests first and second year but then it becomes all MC in 3rd year.
 
Hi orca this a late thank you but thank you!! I've been reading a lot of past posts trying to gain more info on penn and came across a lot of your helpful posts.
 
Hi there - bumping this thread now as well! I've been accepted to Cornell and I have an interview with UPenn next week - perhaps this is a bit early, but I've started to compare the two (in case of a UPenn acceptance as well).

My main question thus far after a lot of reading, watching videos, and contacting admissions and drowning them in questions........is regarding FINANCIAL AID. I definitely know that veterinary school = debt, debt, and more debt. I've been looking into vet school for years, and after two bachelors degrees, and finishing up a PhD I've finally decided to go for it!

But I'm utilizing cost as the main factor in choosing between these two institutions. Cornell sends students a financial aid package before the April deadline for accepting offers which is extremely helpful,......but apparently UPenn doesn't really discuss financial aid offers until a student accepts an offer?

(1) However, has anyone experienced an exception where UPenn did discuss financial aid before you accepted their offer? Like during or after your interview? It just seems a bit ridiculous to have to accept and pay $500 in order to find out if they wanted to offer you any substantial financial aid, i.e. recruitment scholarships and such........so I just wanted to double check and ask.

(2) Has Cornell offered you a significant amount of grants or scholarships?

I believe I'm pretty competitive for financial aid* and scholarships, hence my inquiry, so any bits of advice or discussion would help tremendously!! Thank you!!


*NOTE: I also know that a majority of financial aid comes in the form of subsidized and unsubsidized loans, but a few grants or scholarships do occur and are more than welcome imo ;)

NOTE NOTE: Lol I also know Cornell and UPenn have other differences worth considering in my decision, they are definitely on my Pros/Cons list!!


----
Removed: I'm especially curious because although Cornell is my OOS, it is cheaper than my IS (Penn).

Thanks for clearing this up guys!!! Forgot to include this!
 
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I'm especially curious because although Cornell is my OOS, it is cheaper than my IS (UPenn).
Doesn’t penn have a 10k subsidy for IS students? I’m not a resident, nor did I apply there, but I thought I saw that on their website. So I think that’d make it a bit cheaper than Cornell OOS, right?

(At least tuitionwise)
 
Doesn’t penn have a 10k subsidy for IS students? I’m not a resident, nor did I apply there, but I thought I saw that on their website. So I think that’d make it a bit cheaper than Cornell OOS, right?

(At least tuitionwise)

Hey there! You are completely right xD
 
Doesn’t penn have a 10k subsidy for IS students? I’m not a resident, nor did I apply there, but I thought I saw that on their website. So I think that’d make it a bit cheaper than Cornell OOS, right?

(At least tuitionwise)
Yes, it does, and although there have been some issues over state funding lately (which *may* have an impact on that subsidy), as of now the $10k is still being offered to instate students.
 
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Yes, it does, and although there have been some issues over state funding lately (which *may* have an impact on that subsidy), as of now the $10k is still being offered to instate students.

Noted! And thanks for clearing that up! Forgot to consider that :// ahhhh!
 
(1) However, has anyone experienced an exception where UPenn did discuss financial aid before you accepted their offer? Like during or after your interview? It just seems a bit ridiculous to have to accept and pay $500 in order to find out if they wanted to offer you any substantial financial aid, i.e. recruitment scholarships and such........so I just wanted to double check and ask.

The recruitment scholarships will be offered to students before they accept their offer. They probably wont offer them up when they send out the acceptance but they will notify you if you got them well before the April deadline.
 
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The recruitment scholarships will be offered to students before they accept their offer. They probably wont offer them up when they send out the acceptance but they will notify you if you got them well before the April deadline.

Noted! Thank you!
 
Hoping to maybe bump this thread back up... lol I know its been a few years but I am trying to decide between Cornell and Penn along with another few choices and wanted to see what original posters ended up going with? Or if anyone has gained any new insight? I know Penn has changed their curriculum
 
Hoping to maybe bump this thread back up... lol I know its been a few years but I am trying to decide between Cornell and Penn along with another few choices and wanted to see what original posters ended up going with? Or if anyone has gained any new insight? I know Penn has changed their curriculum
This thread has not been posted in for over 6 years. You are unlikely to get helpful responses from the original posters - if they even post anymore. I recommend posting in the X vs Y School subforum rather than necrobumping old threads.
 
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