PennSt acceptance, should I go to my late George Washington Interview?

[BJPENNSTATE]

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hello SDNers, long time lurker, 1st time poster

I have a question for any of you great people to kindly respond. I am accepted to Penn St COM and I received a late interview for George Washington in late Feb. I am a poor student from Cali and I know that if I go to the GWU interview..more likely, i'll be waitlisted and waste my 250 dollar airplane fee, however, I heard that GWU has a lot of movement in their waitlist in May.

My question: Which school is better in landing residency match in Cali (since I want to go back to Southern Cali after med school)? Also, I am leaning towards emergency medicine or internal medical (GI). And also, can someone post a link or PDF file of GWU residency match list for 2008.

Thank you all.

 

[FlowLimited]

Residency match lists are meaningless. Just because everyone in a particular year wanted to stay on the east coast doesn't mean the school is incapable of matching students to the west coast. The fact of the matter is, if you do well in med school and on your boards, you can match anywhere in the country.

If you like the idea of attending GW for med school, go to the interview. Don't base your opinions on match lists because they're not really telling you what you think they're telling you.

 

[BJPENNSTATE]

alright thanks for the comment..coming from an actual medical student and not a pre-med.

I am just worried about GWU being on probation, however, I would love to live in DC with how diverse and dynamic it is...similar to Los Angeles.

 

[anoncurious]

you mentioned you were a 'poor cali student' which implies that money is an criteria for choosing a school (as it is with most students). If that is the case, If I were in your position, I would definitely not go to the interview. GWU is one of the most expensive schools in the country and it would seem almost irresponsible to spend that much money on a school that is on probationary status (and isn't even that well regarded in the medical community). That being said, the location is awesome (DC), but I think the other factors negate this advantage.

So my advice: Go to Penn State and don't look back!

 

[tacrum43]

OP, first of all congrats on the Penn State acceptance! That is nice that you don't have to worry about getting in somewhere now.

I'm from California and go to GW. GW is a great school and I'm happy I came here. The probation thing should be fixed soon and the LCME has recently approved GW's corrective action plan. Link: http://www.gwumc.edu/smhs/lcme/

I would recommend flying out for the interview, unless the cost is just not do-able. You sound interested, and you may always wonder "what if" if you don't take a look in person. Also, they definitely do accept people right away you interview later in the year. I know of at least one person in my class who interviewed in February and was accepted in March (not me, I interviewed in September but didn't get in until June!).

As for Residencies, GW has been strong in Emergency Medicine, and has a great program themself. They seem to do pretty well in IM too. Take a look for yourself:

2008 GW Match List: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=6445328&postcount=139

Hope that helps. 🙂

 

[ih8biochem]

you mentioned you were a 'poor cali student' which implies that money is an criteria for choosing a school (as it is with most students). If that is the case, If I were in your position, I would definitely not go to the interview. GWU is one of the most expensive schools in the country and it would seem almost irresponsible to spend that much money on a school that is on probationary status (and isn't even that well regarded in the medical community). That being said, the location is awesome (DC), but I think the other factors negate this advantage.

So my advice: Go to Penn State and don't look back!

Don't take this guy's advice. Nobody I know in my class is independently wealthy, meaning, we are all poor. At my school, I've never heard of anyone not being promoted because of their inability to pay tuition. You may end up with more debt, but don't let the fact that you're poor to begin with factor into your decision.

 

[anoncurious]

Don't take this guy's advice. Nobody I know in my class is independently wealthy, meaning, we are all poor. At my school, I've never heard of anyone not being promoted because of their inability to pay tuition. You may end up with more debt, but don't let the fact that you're poor to begin with factor into your decision.

Wait--I don't understand what you are saying. "not being promoted because of their inability to pay tuition"? What does that mean?

Look, first of all, almost all med students are "poor" (by poor I mean having to take out loans to pay for med school). Med students have access to loans, so its not a matter of having an 'inability to pay tuition'. It's a matter of how much debt one has after med school is over. I didn't say 'poor' with respect to the guys family situation, I said it to mean that he has to take out loans in order to pay for school (which is what I thought he meant when he called himself poor).

Second, why the hell shouldn't the OP let the amount of that debt factor into his decision?! Are you insane? Would you not let the cost of a car factor into your decision of which one to purchase? How about 10 cars? (which is about the price of GWU)

Look - All I am saying is that the risk/reward ratio for this school is far from ideal. It's a big risk choosing a school that is on probationary status, and it's not like the school is one of the best in the country so it would be wise to think long an hard about if it is worth the huge sums of money for GWU when (I assume) it costs much less for the state school. Your advice of not letting money factor into his decision is probably the craziest thing I've heard on this forum.

 

[soundbyte]

If it helps, Penn State Hershey had one of the first residency programs for Emergency Medicine in the country. I, too, am interested in EM and will be attending PSU in the fall.

 

[rama kandra]

save yourself trouble, give up the GWU invite and be happy for PSU

 

[BJPENNSTATE]

by "poor cali student" i meant that I come from a low income family and a $300 dollar plane fee and $100 hotel room would take me about a month to pay off...

 

[ih8biochem]

Wait--I don't understand what you are saying. "not being promoted because of their inability to pay tuition"? What does that mean?

Look, first of all, almost all med students are "poor" (by poor I mean having to take out loans to pay for med school). Med students have access to loans, so its not a matter of having an 'inability to pay tuition'. It's a matter of how much debt one has after med school is over. I didn't say 'poor' with respect to the guys family situation, I said it to mean that he has to take out loans in order to pay for school (which is what I thought he meant when he called himself poor).

Second, why the hell shouldn't the OP let the amount of that debt factor into his decision?! Are you insane? Would you not let the cost of a car factor into your decision of which one to purchase? How about 10 cars? (which is about the price of GWU)

Look - All I am saying is that the risk/reward ratio for this school is far from ideal. It's a big risk choosing a school that is on probationary status, and it's not like the school is one of the best in the country so it would be wise to think long an hard about if it is worth the huge sums of money for GWU when (I assume) it costs much less for the state school. Your advice of not letting money factor into his decision is probably the craziest thing I've heard on this forum.

I've heard crazier. Stick around, go to medical school, and maybe you'll change your story. So you think that those who go to more expensive medical schools are there because they didn't get into cheaper ones? Crazy. Look, at most we're probably talking about <$100,000 difference. Probably equivalent to a small condo. Go ask any doctor you know how much their tuition comprises of the total debt they're in. Understand that as a doctor, you won't be eating ramen every night because you racked up too much medical school debt. In fact, when folks say they're hesitant to do primary care because of the debt they incurred, it's mostly an excuse to justify their decision to enter the more lucrative fields. Primary care docs are not crushed by their med school debt.
If the institution's financial aid is good, the money for tuition is there if you need. I meant that you won't have to leave school because of your inability to pay tuition like how it is sometimes in undergrad. Factoring cost of education was more of an undregrad metalilty.

And to the OP, $400 is a drop in the bucket compared to what you will be spending as a med student. I just dropped about 5 g's interviewing at 18 places. Some will feel that >10 is too much but I was happy to go to all of them. Some I was expecting to be good was bad, some I only felt so so about was awesome. Now I have that many more options. All I'm saying that for me, I try to not let money limit by ability to acquire options. Others may feel differently.

 

[87138]

hello SDNers, long time lurker, 1st time poster

I have a question for any of you great people to kindly respond. I am accepted to Penn St COM and I received a late interview for George Washington in late Feb. I am a poor student from Cali and I know that if I go to the GWU interview..more likely, i'll be waitlisted and waste my 250 dollar airplane fee, however, I heard that GWU has a lot of movement in their waitlist in May.

My question: Which school is better in landing residency match in Cali (since I want to go back to Southern Cali after med school)? Also, I am leaning towards emergency medicine or internal medical (GI). And also, can someone post a link or PDF file of GWU residency match list for 2008.

Thank you all.

Think about all the trouble you'll have to go to in order to change your SDN screen name if you end up at GW. Are you ready for that kind of commitment?

 

[87138]

I've heard crazier. Stick around, go to medical school, and maybe you'll change your story. So you think that those who go to more expensive medical schools are there because they didn't get into cheaper ones? Crazy. Look, at most we're probably talking about <$100,000 difference. Probably equivalent to a small condo. Go ask any doctor you know how much their tuition comprises of the total debt they're in. Understand that as a doctor, you won't be eating ramen every night because you racked up too much medical school debt. In fact, when folks say they're hesitant to do primary care because of the debt they incurred, it's mostly an excuse to justify their decision to enter the more lucrative fields. Primary care docs are not crushed by their med school debt.
If the institution's financial aid is good, the money for tuition is there if you need. I meant that you won't have to leave school because of your inability to pay tuition like how it is sometimes in undergrad. Factoring cost of education was more of an undregrad metalilty.

And to the OP, $400 is a drop in the bucket compared to what you will be spending as a med student. I just dropped about 5 g's interviewing at 18 places. Some will feel that >10 is too much but I was happy to go to all of them. Some I was expecting to be good was bad, some I only felt so so about was awesome. Now I have that many more options. All I'm saying that for me, I try to not let money limit by ability to acquire options. Others may feel differently.

Unless the doctors you're talking to are freshly minted from residency, chances are their debt:salary ratio is MUCH MUCH lower than 99% of what we will all see.

I talked to a 42 year old doc who graduated medical school in the late 80's. He went to a private medical school and his tuition for 4 years totaled ~$40,000. That's ~$10,000 a year.

Compare that to the $40-50,000 a year price tags on most schools these days.

 

[anoncurious]

I've heard crazier. Stick around, go to medical school, and maybe you'll change your story. So you think that those who go to more expensive medical schools are there because they didn't get into cheaper ones? Crazy. Look, at most we're probably talking about <$100,000 difference. Probably equivalent to a small condo.

Are you purposely trying to be dense? I was saying that not considering the amount of debt in one's decision of which school to attend would be crazy (and it is). I didn't say that everyone should chose to go to cheaper med schools. You are arguing to not look at the amount of debt at all, which simply isn't a tenable position to hold. Are you seriously trying to tell someone that $100,000 plus interest is not only 'no big deal', but irrelevant? That you should purposely try to ignore how much one spends on something?

You seem to have a naive pre-med opinion of how the real world works with respect to money. Trust me, given that you won't get any substantive benefit by attending GWU as opposed to Penn State, that extra loan money will definitely take a toll on your standard of living (even if it is for only a few years..that's a few years that you could have extra cash to put away)

I agree with you about interview expenses, though - that shouldn't factor into your decision IF you think that you would like the school, but otherwise, don't go. I too spent a lot of money traveling to >10 interviews but I planned it well--I waited to schedule the low-end schools later and then I cancelled those after getting into my top choices. So OP, first consider if you think GWU could be worth the expense. If so, then go to the interview; if not, then don't.

 

[Lindindite]

BJPennState, I live in L.A. and I'm starting at GW this year. Class of 2013! 🙂 Like you, I'm hoping to get into a residency back here in L.A. (or NY). During interview day, everyone I spoke with was extremely enthusiastic about GW students doing their electives all over the country/world. (Current GW students, please let me know if this info was a load of BS!) In my mind, electives in L.A.=networking opportunites for matching to L.A. residencies. I've met many L.A. doctors that first met their residents during an elective or a summer fellowship and were so impressed by them that they pushed for them to match at their hospitals.

During my interview at state-funded U of MD, they made it clear that they were trying to keep the med school graduates in the state of Maryland, so they weren't that excited about 3rd and 4th yrs doing their electives elsewhere. I don't know about Penn State at all, but if they're anything like state-funded U of MD, I'd suggest going to the interview at GW.

As for med school loan debt, it's really up to you to decide if amount of debt factors into your future. For me, it was more important to get into a school that best fit me. Unfortunately, my top two choices turned out being two of the most expensive schools out there... Still, for me, I don't mind the debt. Maybe it's because I'm older and I have already paid off my undergrad loans, car loan, and already owned property. So I know that debt doesn't ruin your lifestyle that much. For others, however, debt is a huge issue. I understand both, but don't let it scare you. Your payments won't kill you--you'll just have to manage your money wisely for those first few years after residency.

 

[ih8biochem]

Are you purposely trying to be dense? I was saying that not considering the amount of debt in one's decision of which school to attend would be crazy (and it is). I didn't say that everyone should chose to go to cheaper med schools. You are arguing to not look at the amount of debt at all, which simply isn't a tenable position to hold. Are you seriously trying to tell someone that $100,000 plus interest is not only 'no big deal', but irrelevant? That you should purposely try to ignore how much one spends on something?

You seem to have a naive pre-med opinion of how the real world works with respect to money. Trust me, given that you won't get any substantive benefit by attending GWU as opposed to Penn State, that extra loan money will definitely take a toll on your standard of living (even if it is for only a few years..that's a few years that you could have extra cash to put away)

I agree with you about interview expenses, though - that shouldn't factor into your decision IF you think that you would like the school, but otherwise, don't go. I too spent a lot of money traveling to >10 interviews but I planned it well--I waited to schedule the low-end schools later and then I cancelled those after getting into my top choices. So OP, first consider if you think GWU could be worth the expense. If so, then go to the interview; if not, then don't.

Premed? Unlike you, I'm already in and just about to finish. I was referring to residency interviews.

 

[student1799]

I just interviewed at GW, and got the impression that there were a LOT of students from California there. (About 10 students showed up during lunch to talk to us, and about half of them were from there. When I remarked to a student that GW seemed to have lots of Californians, she laughed and agreed that it was the case.)

At the very least, this means you'll have a lot of company at GW. I'd also hazard a guess that GW wouldn't have such a large Cali population if students had trouble getting residencies back on the West Coast. The information packet I was given has only an abbreviated version of the match list, but does mention that students matched at institutions including Cedars Sinai, Stanford, and UCLA.

Regarding whether to go to the interview: if you have a strong gut feeling that Penn State is your dream school and you really loved it there, skip GW. But if you just liked as opposed to loved Penn State, then it might be worth the $400 to check out another school. Many people report that their school preferences have changed dramatically once they actually visited: they ended up really liking schools they thought they'd hate, and vice versa.

If you do go to the interview, I'd choose whichever school you have the strongest positive feelings about. As a nontrad who worked for 20 years at a whole bunch of different companies, I've learned that intangible factors such as culture and atmosphere can be way more important to your happiness than the tangibles such as cost. Since you're going to be spending a huge amount of time and energy on med school, you might as well do it somewhere that you think you'd be happiest.

Besides, the economic difference between Penn State and GW isn't that great. Assuming you're OOS for Penn State, the tuition is virtually identical: $44,920 at Penn State and $44,915 for GW. The real difference is going to be in the living expenses. In the current MSAR, Penn State's COA (tuition plus living expenses) is given as $59,728; there's no COA given for GW, but my interview packet projects the COA for '09 of about $68,000 (this includes a $1,000 tuition increase). So the difference in cost between the two schools is probably $8-9K per year--say $10K for estimation purposes. So you'll have an extra $40K in debt if you attend GW--that strikes me as pretty minor in the grand scheme of things.

Bottom line, I think it makes sense to attend the interview. Don't limit your options before you've even explored them.

 

[Handy388]

Premed? Unlike you, I'm already in and just about to finish. I was referring to residency interviews.

18 interviews? Are you a FMG?

 

[jaeman]

BJPennState.. congratulations on getting into Penn State, I am just a premed like you so take my advice with a grain of salt. I would say don't close any doors which have opened up for you, more options are better... so I guess I would say make the sacrifice and go to your GW interview. However, I want to say congratulations to a possible future classmate (I was recently accepted to Penn State class of 2013 🙂).

 

[bluesmd]

go to GW! don't want to look back and wonder if...

 

[airca12]

So you think that those who go to more expensive medical schools are there because they didn't get into cheaper ones? Crazy. Look, at most we're probably talking about <$100,000 difference. Probably equivalent to a small condo. Go ask any doctor you know how much their tuition comprises of the total debt they're in. Understand that as a doctor, you won't be eating ramen every night because you racked up too much medical school debt.

I agree with this. I don't understand how the cost of tuition could be much of a factor in deciding where to go. Either way, you're going to have the loan debt. In the huge sweep of things, over your entire lengthy career as a physician, is it going to make a difference if you went to a medical school that cost 5, 10, or 15k per year more than another one? That's 20-45k total difference. That's just nothing if you're earning a good salary for 30+ years. You'll probably never think twice about it when you're older. So... go where you want and where you think you'll be happiest.

Congratulations on your acceptance.

 

[ih8biochem]

18 interviews? Are you a FMG?

Ha, no. My wife had specific criteria for where I needed to go so I applied to everything that met this criteria. Interview offers began pouring in and instead of turning them down and staying home, I was like, "what the heck, I always wanted to visit (blank)." Everyone thought I was crazy but what other chance will you get to pick the minds of >100 attendings in your field?

 

[scarletgirl777]

hello SDNers, long time lurker, 1st time poster

I have a question for any of you great people to kindly respond. I am accepted to Penn St COM and I received a late interview for George Washington in late Feb. I am a poor student from Cali and I know that if I go to the GWU interview..more likely, i'll be waitlisted and waste my 250 dollar airplane fee, however, I heard that GWU has a lot of movement in their waitlist in May.

My question: Which school is better in landing residency match in Cali (since I want to go back to Southern Cali after med school)? Also, I am leaning towards emergency medicine or internal medical (GI). And also, can someone post a link or PDF file of GWU residency match list for 2008.

Thank you all.

Emergency medicine is not a particularly competitive residency so I wouldn't be too concerned about how your school will affect your ability to match. But I can understand the draw of DC over Hershey...

 

[FireTop]

Hey tacrum,

sorry this may seem random, but i tried sending you a PM but your inbox is full. could you delete a few messages so i could send you my message? thank you so much =]

OP, first of all congrats on the Penn State acceptance! That is nice that you don't have to worry about getting in somewhere now.

I'm from California and go to GW. GW is a great school and I'm happy I came here. The probation thing should be fixed soon and the LCME has recently approved GW's corrective action plan. Link: http://www.gwumc.edu/smhs/lcme/

I would recommend flying out for the interview, unless the cost is just not do-able. You sound interested, and you may always wonder "what if" if you don't take a look in person. Also, they definitely do accept people right away you interview later in the year. I know of at least one person in my class who interviewed in February and was accepted in March (not me, I interviewed in September but didn't get in until June!).

As for Residencies, GW has been strong in Emergency Medicine, and has a great program themself. They seem to do pretty well in IM too. Take a look for yourself:

2008 GW Match List: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=6445328&postcount=139

Hope that helps. 🙂