People lie

[tesla123]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

This is exactly why I don't believe people when they say it doesn't matter where you go...

http://mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=424 🙁

 

[Ypo.]

This is exactly why I don't believe people when they say it doesn't matter where you go...

http://mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=424 🙁

poor baby... 🙁

 

[leiface]

Though I do believe in looking at these things with a grain of salt...you cannot just assume this person's lying because he got rejected from these great schools with a great GPA and MCAT. It seems completely plausible given that med school admissions is not completely based on numbers. He could've had a real crappy PS and his extracurriculars may sound good but really are just fluff and adcoms can see right through that...I'm just saying...it is entirely plausible.

 

[QueenofCryptic]

This is exactly why I don't believe people when they say it doesn't matter where you go...

http://mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=424 🙁

University of Michigan is one of the best schools though 🙂

 

[MadameLULU]

remember that adcoms decisions are highly subjective...nothing "guarantees" or entitles anyone to a slot

 

[Acherona]

Though I do believe in looking at these things with a grain of salt...you cannot just assume this person's lying because he got rejected from these great schools with a great GPA and MCAT. It seems completely plausible given that med school admissions is not completely based on numbers. He could've had a real crappy PS and his extracurriculars may sound good but really are just fluff and adcoms can see right through that...I'm just saying...it is entirely plausible.

The OP was saying that it's not true that your undergrad school doesn't matter, as many claim, not that the mdapplicant is lying.

1) The applicant may not realize there is something else wrong with his app and so is attributing it to his undergrad
2) U Mich is a great school
3) He didn't actually apply to that many top schools, if he had applied to more he might have gotten into one

 

[leiface]

The OP was saying that it's not true that your undergrad school doesn't matter, as many claim, not that the mdapplicant is lying.

1) The applicant may not realize there is something else wrong with his app and so is attributing it to his undergrad
2) U Mich is a great school
3) He didn't actually apply to that many top schools, if he had applied to more he might have gotten into one

whoops, gotta read more carefully, just woke up 🙂
😴 😴

 

[Phil Anthropist]

I think there's more to it than just numbers. University of Illinois is a damn good school. Urbana-Champaign is not your standard public school, I have a friend that went there for comp-sci and went on leave for a year to help programming rockets at NASA. It's not a cream-puff school. And come on now, he got into Michigan out-of-state. Not too shabby. Furthermore, he withdrew from some highly competitive schools after being waitlisted.

Some of the med schools he applied to look for "compatibility with their institution," which is obviously very subjective. That often means something that really stands out, like special leadership characteristics. He even mentioned that he did "nothing out of the ordinary." All of the ECs he listed strike me as standard premed activities. Not that that's a bad thing (and a helluva lot more than me at this point), just nothing out of the ordinary.

I have friends at SLU that got accepted to Duke and Baylor--without research of any sort. I also know people at a no-name liberal arts college close to my hometown that have been accepted to Harvard, U of Chicago, Northwestern, Michigan, and Wash U to name a few. So I think this whole "undergrad matters" is overrated.

 

[tesla123]

Though I do believe in looking at these things with a grain of salt...you cannot just assume this person's lying because he got rejected from these great schools with a great GPA and MCAT. It seems completely plausible given that med school admissions is not completely based on numbers. He could've had a real crappy PS and his extracurriculars may sound good but really are just fluff and adcoms can see right through that...I'm just saying...it is entirely plausible.

I meant that the counselors, advisors, and others who claim that it simply doesn't matter where you go as long as you do well, are lying in some instances. This is a good example of that. Also, I have worked in the offices of ADCOM members and had them tell me that the PS is not that big of a deal, as long as you claim that you want to help people in a medical setting, it doesn't affect your application strongly. In the instances where it does help, your interviewers have more information to defend your application.

I can also tell you that I met some medical students at an Ivy League institution who told me that they simply couldn't recall a time when they were disadvantaged and answered those particular secondary questions by stating that they felt disadvantaged because they couldn't respond to the secondary question. They got in.

I completely agree that this can be a subjective process, but by all accounts this person should have at least interviewed at most of the schools he applied to. In my opinion that's why these numbers and exams are in place, to keep things as "objective" as possible. Thanks for your feedback. Again, only my opinion and def open for debate. 😛

 

[DieselPetrolGrl]

wtf he got in!
what are u complaining about? unless it is your life - you know that applicant's whole story?
I agree completly with Acherona. You dont know as much as you think you do.
is that ur profile?
if it isnt - mind your own damn business.

 

[tesla123]

wtf he got in!
what are u complaining about? unless it is your life - you know that applicant's whole story?
I agree completly with Acherona. You dont know as much as you think you do.
is that ur profile?
if it isnt - mind your own damn business.

LOL. I think you should reread Acherona's post and calm down. Life is just too short my friend

 

[blingblah]

I agree with somebody who said that if its not your profile, dont bother poking into it.

I see your point but I have to say that your example blows. The University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign is pretty damn good and it should not hurt you if you are doing well. As a current med school applicant, I know more than a couple of classmates who interviewed at Harvard, Mayo, Michigan, CAse (pretty good schools but any med school acceptance is awesome I think ). I dont think its the schools name that hurts the person, but like the person himself said, the lack of any great ECs hurt him more.

I could also give you the example of a classmate i know rite now, who has a 34 mcat and 4.0 GPA... but hasnt got into a single medical school and rejected straight up by 2. Is that because how bad the Illinois is??? No freakin way!! He doesnt have many ECs, and his motivation to go to med school is not there.

I see the prestige point, but the profile you put up (which shud not even be done if its not yours) does not illustrate your point at all.

 

[Vandyfox]

For every story like the one in the OP, you can find one like mine:

I (and a number of my pre-med friends) went to Vanderbilt U. for undergrad. Blah blah, top 20, "ivy league of the south", whatever you want to call it. I truly felt that Vandy didn't do Jack for my application process. I only got 4 interviews, and 3 acceptances (which means, I think, that I interview well.) I graduated Magna Cum Laude with lots of good EC's (blah blah blah) and a 32 mcat.

If the big name university were that important, my other friends (with similar stories) would have done "better". I love my current school (my 2nd choice to Iowa), and I'm not saying Vandy got me nothing, but I'm just offering some anecdotals to the contrary of the OP's example.

One of my best friends was her sorority president, magna cum laude, 28 MCAT, and got in nowhere. She's a great girl, so explain that one to me. . . .
the game is tough, and there aren't many (any) hard and fast rules.

Just do your best and hope for the best wherever you are
Good luck
-Vandyfox

 

[visualwealth]

I think it looks bad if you go to an Ivy league school and don't break 34 on the MCAT but, if someone gets 34+ from a state school that is 1000X more impressive.

 

[tank you]

besides, he did get waitlisted at WashU...

 

[constructor]

people who go to ****ty schools, let's not kid ourselves here... you guys study your asses off for the mcat because you need to do well in order to be on equal footing with the ivy league applicants. almost all ivy league applicants can pull a 30 in their sleep and they can rest assured that they'll get into medical school with that score, so the what the mcat means to a person is completely variable depending on their undergrad institution. it's not any more impressive if a state school kid scores high on the mcat than when an ivy league kid does it. the kid from the state school just did what he/she had to do. if you go to an ivy league school, you don't have to bust your balls as much because med schools know you're already pretty darn competent because you had what it takes to go there. get ready for the same thing in another 2 years with the boards and residency matching in 4 years.

 

[Medikit]

The MDaps guy did excellent, he got waitlisted at awesome schools mainly based on the interview, and he did get into U Mich which is excellent. Quit your bellyaching.

 

[MWillie]

I think it's the lack of interesting ECs rather than the undergrad institution.

 

[45408]

Well, he was only rejected from Harvard, JHU, Yale and Stanford (which is a CA school too). The others he withdrew from or got waitlisted at. Getting waitlisted at WashU, UPENN and Northwestern is hardly being punished. Odds are high that he'll get into at least one of those, in addition to UM.

 

[akpete]

My last interviewer flat out told me that your undergrad matters. But he mentioned it specifically for people who only do "average" on the MCAT. I got a 29 on the MCAT, so he then looked at my grades and undergrad. Unfortunatley he has never heard of my school, and couldn't even pronounce it correctly. We'll see if I get in...

 

[Nittany Lion]

I think it looks bad if you go to an Ivy league school and don't break 34 on the MCAT but, if someone gets 34+ from a state school that is 1000X more impressive.

I hope you didn't actually mean it this way, but your post is totally implying that people who go to state schools are not as intelligent as people who go to Ivy League schools. I'm sorry, but that's total crap. Did you ever think that maybe some people choose not to attend Ivy League schools because you can get just as good of an education at a state school for half the price?

 

[QofQuimica]

I think....if someone gets 34+ from a state school that is 1000X more impressive.

Why? Scoring that well is impressive regardless of where you go to school. It's not like state school attendance = disadvantaged applicant status!!! I have always gone to state schools (undergrad, masters, and now PhD), and if that makes my MCAT score so much more impressive to you than it would if I'd gone to an Ivy League school, well....(shakes head) I just don't even know what to say to that. 🙄

 

[SanDiegoSOD]

I'd be stoked about getting into a top-10 school...

 

[JDAD]

I'll throw my 2 cents in....... Undergrad Matters Period. End of story.

 

[synapse lapse]

I'll throw my 2 cents in....... Undergrad Matters Period. End of story.

You are certainly right!

 

[every1blowz]

--

 

[visualwealth]

I was just referring to the availablity of resources at ivy schools... State schools are good too... Trust me I go to one and people here work very hard and do well... Don't take my words out of context you dont know me!

 

[tharealest]

I think it looks bad if you go to an Ivy league school and don't break 34 on the MCAT but, if someone gets 34+ from a state school that is 1000X more impressive.

Uhh...isn't one of the main reasons you take the MCAT is to create a level playing field?

 

[Nittany Lion]

I was just referring to the availablity of resources at ivy schools... State schools are good too... Trust me I go to one and people here work very hard and do well... Don't take my words out of context you dont know me!

If you would have said that in your original post, it would have made much more sense. You didn't give much of a context the first time around, dude.

 

[coincidental]

how the hell does this work?

http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=438

25 on the MCAT
an okay GPA
and ECs that "may or may not have mattered"

look at all the school he got rejected from, and than he got into the best one of all. fascinating...

I hate to break it to you, but people lie on mdapplicants. My favorite enteries being the >4.0 gpa and the "busty blond" from the fashion institute of technology, who incidently, also got into Harvard, according to Mdapplicants.com. I have no idea if that guy got into Havard, maybe there were circumstances we're not aware of, but maybe he's messing with the system. I'd say it's 50-50 either way.

I'd advise anyone looking at mdapplicants.com to take it with a grain of salt, but that's just my two cents.

 

[gujuDoc]

people who go to ****ty schools, let's not kid ourselves here... you guys study your asses off for the mcat because you need to do well in order to be on equal footing with the ivy league applicants. almost all ivy league applicants can pull a 30 in their sleep and they can rest assured that they'll get into medical school with that score, so the what the mcat means to a person is completely variable depending on their undergrad institution. it's not any more impressive if a state school kid scores high on the mcat than when an ivy league kid does it. the kid from the state school just did what he/she had to do. if you go to an ivy league school, you don't have to bust your balls as much because med schools know you're already pretty darn competent because you had what it takes to go there. get ready for the same thing in another 2 years with the boards and residency matching in 4 years.

I wouldn't make such stupid generalizations if I were you. The admissions dean of USF med school has a son who just graduated from med school. His son went to John's Hopkins University for undergrad, and guess what he still had to do a master's before getting in somewhere because it wasn't like a easy shot to getting a certain MCAT score. And I know plenty of people at my quote in quote no prestige name university who didn't have to put a lot into getting a great mcat score, and got well above 34 or 35 on their mcats.

In fact, the poster on this forum that got the 43S is a grad student at my university and is a prime example of just how intelligent people exist at non ranked universities.

The best doctors are not always the ones that got into the highest ranked
schools.


PS just because a person got into an ivy league school and had a high sat or act, does not mean they will have a high MCAT by the snap of a finger

 

[visualwealth]

I believe that most of the profiles on MD applicants are real that is, only a real loser would go out of their way to make a fake profile. for instance I am pretty sure the last profile is real... He was mormon they tend to have great EC b/c of religious requirements/obligations..

 

[Law2Doc]

how the hell does this work?

http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=438

25 on the MCAT
an okay GPA
and ECs that "may or may not have mattered"

look at all the school he got rejected from, and than he got into the best one of all. fascinating...

I guess you are assuming his last name isn't Harvard

 

[constructor]

I wouldn't make such stupid generalizations if I were you. The admissions dean of USF med school has a son who just graduated from med school. His son went to John's Hopkins University for undergrad, and guess what he still had to do a master's before getting in somewhere because it wasn't like a easy shot to getting a certain MCAT score. And I know plenty of people at my quote in quote no prestige name university who didn't have to put a lot into getting a great mcat score, and got well above 34 or 35 on their mcats.

In fact, the poster on this forum that got the 43S is a grad student at my university and is a prime example of just how intelligent people exist at non ranked universities.

The best doctors are not always the ones that got into the highest ranked
schools.


PS just because a person got into an ivy league school and had a high sat or act, does not mean they will have a high MCAT by the snap of a finger

don't call my statements generalizations unless you go to a top school and have personal experiences to refute my point. it is a fact that 90% of the students at the top schools can get a 30 on the mcat with minimal effort (i know because i go to a top 5 school). i didn't say there aren't smart people in state schools, but just that they generally have to work harder because they don't start out on an equal footing. get real and stop being naive.

 

[blump]

don't call my statements generalizations unless you go to a top school and have personal experiences to refute my point. it is a fact that 90% of the students at the top schools can get a 30 on the mcat with minimal effort (i know because i go to a top 5 school). i didn't say there aren't smart people in state schools, but just that they generally have to work harder because they don't start out on an equal footing. get real and stop being naive.

i go to a top school so i guess I am "allowed" to comment on your post. One, i highly doubt that 90% of students get a 30 with minimial effort. I know plenty of people who struggle with the MCAT because they were taught at these "top schools" not to take standardized tests. I think you are being quite naive. But hey, thats just me...

 

[gujuDoc]

i go to a top school so i guess I am "allowed" to comment on your post. One, i highly doubt that 90% of students get a 30 with minimial effort. I know plenty of people who struggle with the MCAT because they were taught at these "top schools" not to take standardized tests. I think you are being quite naive. But hey, thats just me...

Thank you for supporting me. At least there are some people who are not ignorant and who don't assume that everything is as easy as counting 123.

 

[Quynh2007]

.

 

[Efficacy24]

I hate to break it to you, but people lie on mdapplicants. My favorite enteries being the >4.0 gpa and the "busty blond" from the fashion institute of technology, who incidently, also got into Harvard, according to Mdapplicants.com. I have no idea if that guy got into Havard, maybe there were circumstances we're not aware of, but maybe he's messing with the system. I'd say it's 50-50 either way.

I'd advise anyone looking at mdapplicants.com to take it with a grain of salt, but that's just my two cents.

Totally agree. This is the internet...people lie. 🙂 It's nice to believe that everyone's all honest and good, but be real. There's no way to verify the info people post on this site. And just think of how many people troll this forum! MDapplicants is definitely a case of believing half of what u see.

 

[DieselPetrolGrl]

your all dirty for analyzing peoples mdprofiles
you know we are supposed to not actually ADMIT to analyzing them
i remember the good old days of SDN: people would cry over ecahothers SDNs and pray to god..then fall asleep under their computer desks..wake up at 3 amd go post-crazy


plus remember MDapplicant is a survey site..how many of you like to take grocery surveys and lie and say you purchased 30lbs of corn chips in 2004? but when you answer the question how many pepsi's you bought you are totally honest!
where is my point..oh yeah...it may be a lie ..it may be the truth..only my dog knows. <<for $2.99 you can too! (PM me for details) hurry! supplies are limited!>>

 

[constructor]

i go to a top school so i guess I am "allowed" to comment on your post. One, i highly doubt that 90% of students get a 30 with minimial effort. I know plenty of people who struggle with the MCAT because they were taught at these "top schools" not to take standardized tests. I think you are being quite naive. But hey, thats just me...

i assumed that the standards and quality of students at all of the top schools were the same. i stand corrected...

 

[blump]

i assumed that the standards and quality of students at all of the top schools were the same. i stand corrected...

dude, i hope your arrogant, bitchy attitude serves you well...you give all top schools a bad name

 

[constructor]

i don't mean to come off as arrogant or bitchy at all. what exactly are you accusing me of being arrogant about? i made a mistake in thinking that what's true of my school is true in general for schools considered to be at the same level. i admit i was wrong in thinking that. 😕

 

[tupac_don]

This is exactly why I don't believe people when they say it doesn't matter where you go...

http://mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=424 🙁

I like your nick name, is it b/c of Nikola Tesla or some other reason?

 

[pushkin]

people who go to ****ty schools, let's not kid ourselves here... you guys study your asses off for the mcat because you need to do well in order to be on equal footing with the ivy league applicants. almost all ivy league applicants can pull a 30 in their sleep and they can rest assured that they'll get into medical school with that score, so the what the mcat means to a person is completely variable depending on their undergrad institution. it's not any more impressive if a state school kid scores high on the mcat than when an ivy league kid does it. the kid from the state school just did what he/she had to do. if you go to an ivy league school, you don't have to bust your balls as much because med schools know you're already pretty darn competent because you had what it takes to go there. get ready for the same thing in another 2 years with the boards and residency matching in 4 years.

You make no sense here. If the MCAT is something that is possibly to STUDY for, then Ivy League applicants are going to have to work just as hard to do well as people at state schools or anywhere else. If anything they are going to have to go against their brilliant natures just to buckle down, especially to master such boring material as, say, the physiology of the kidney. And they will have to backtrack to relearn physics without the calculus. Oh, and they better practice up on multiple choice! (I'm assuming no Ivy League professor ever stoops to this form of exam.) Just going to such a school is not going to guarantee anyone a 30 or more. If in fact attendence at an Ivy League school correlates with "having what it takes," as you say, how exactly is that going to HELP someone on a test that you also seem to be claiming measures sheer dilligence? Especially since, in general, the more prestigious schools tend to emphasize material that's more theoretical in nature in their curriculum, as opposed to the regurgitation that would stand a person well for the MCAT. (I mean come on, the MCAT's not the world's hardest science test, and it's certainly not theoretical.)

The MCAT is not a cakewalk for anyone! And just because students at prestigious schools tend in general to be pretty smart, does not mean that people at state schools tend in general to be pretty stupid. There are smart people going to every kind of school, and to a reasonable degree med schools seem to have a grasp on this fact, I'd say.

 

[constructor]

You make no sense here. If the MCAT is something that is possibly to STUDY for, then Ivy League applicants are going to have to work just as hard to do well as people at state schools or anywhere else. If anything they are going to have to go against their brilliant natures just to buckle down, especially to master such boring material as, say, the physiology of the kidney. And they will have to backtrack to relearn physics without the calculus. Oh, and they better practice up on multiple choice! (I'm assuming no Ivy League professor ever stoops to this form of exam.) Just going to such a school is not going to guarantee anyone a 30 or more. If in fact attendence at an Ivy League school correlates with "having what it takes," as you say, how exactly is that going to HELP someone on a test that you also seem to be claiming measures sheer dilligence? Especially since, in general, the more prestigious schools tend to emphasize material that's more theoretical in nature in their curriculum, as opposed to the regurgitation that would stand a person well for the MCAT. (I mean come on, the MCAT's not the world's hardest science test, and it's certainly not theoretical.)

The MCAT is not a cakewalk for anyone! And just because students at prestigious schools tend in general to be pretty smart, does not mean that people at state schools tend in general to be pretty stupid. There are smart people going to every kind of school, and to a reasonable degree med schools seem to have a grasp on this fact, I'd say.

if you'd care to keep from putting words in my mouth, i never implied that there aren't intelligent students at state schools. likewise, i made it pretty clear that while people can put in work to do well on the mcat, some people don't need to put in the same amount of work as others. the top schools have a higher percentage of students in the latter category. they're at the top schools for a reason and you some people here seem intent on saying that everyone's on equal footing and that's simply not true for this or so many other things in life. if you don't believe that this is true, you're plain delusional and i'm not going to make sense as you say.

 

[Phil Anthropist]

The MCAT is not a cakewalk for anyone!

I only studied for 10 days prior to taking the MCAT last August. I went on a medical missions trip to Haiti that lasted from the end of May until the beginning of August, so that's as much time as I could muster. And to tell you the truth, ten days was probably overkill. I scored a 42 (13P, 14V, S, 15B). The MCAT was a cakewalk.

🙂
Please refer to thread title!

 

[DrThom]

I only studied for 10 days prior to taking the MCAT last August. I went on a medical missions trip to Haiti that lasted from the end of May until the beginning of August, so that's as much time as I could muster. And to tell you the truth, ten days was probably overkill. I scored a 42 (13P, 14V, S, 15B). The MCAT was a cakewalk.

🙂
Please refer to thread title!

Well, 4 1/2 gold stars for you... 🙄 🙄 🙄


I saw the title, I just want to give you crap...

 

[pushkin]

if you'd care to keep from putting words in my mouth, i never implied that there aren't intelligent students at state schools. likewise, i made it pretty clear that while people can put in work to do well on the mcat, some people don't need to put in the same amount of work as others. the top schools have a higher percentage of students in the latter category. they're at the top schools for a reason and you some people here seem intent on saying that everyone's on equal footing and that's simply not true for this or so many other things in life. if you don't believe that this is true, you're plain delusional and i'm not going to make sense as you say.

When did I accuse you of saying there were no smart people at state schools? I said that med schools were on to the fact that smart people ATTEND state schools, and therefore, your arguement that mcat scores are interpreted differently for students attending schools of differing prestige seems rather weak.

Your original post still does not seem very sensible to me. Your claim relies on the premise that it is POSSIBLE for a person to improve their mcat score by studying. If that's the case--if the mcat is a test of skills or knowledge rather than pure aptitude--then how does being smart in the first place really help one out? I just don't see how merely attending an Ivy League school ensures a person something around a 30. That kind of score requires plenty of knowledge that no one I know could learn in their sleep. Also, if anything, people attending "top" schools come from families that can shell out for a Kaplan course, so those kids get MORE study time than the state school students.

Plus, if Ivy League schools are really full of such geniuses, then why are people like you boasting so much about how easy the measly MCAT is for them? It's just a test of applied science and reasoning. The biology involved is mostly memorization. You don't have to show any originality or aptitude for theory. I thought those were the things that the "top" schools looked for in students, but maybe I'm wrong.

 

[constructor]

When did I accuse you of saying there were no smart people at state schools? I said that med schools were on to the fact that smart people ATTEND state schools, and therefore, your arguement that mcat scores are interpreted differently for students attending schools of differing prestige seems rather weak.

Your original post still does not seem very sensible to me. Your claim relies on the premise that it is POSSIBLE for a person to improve their mcat score by studying. If that's the case--if the mcat is a test of skills or knowledge rather than pure aptitude--then how does being smart in the first place really help one out? I just don't see how merely attending an Ivy League school ensures a person something around a 30. That kind of score requires plenty of knowledge that no one I know could learn in their sleep. Also, if anything, people attending "top" schools come from families that can shell out for a Kaplan course, so those kids get MORE study time than the state school students.

Plus, if Ivy League schools are really full of such geniuses, then why are people like you boasting so much about how easy the measly MCAT is for them? It's just a test of applied science and reasoning. The biology involved is mostly memorization. You don't have to show any originality or aptitude for theory. I thought those were the things that the "top" schools looked for in students, but maybe I'm wrong.

i feel like i'm talking to a brick wall. i never said that being smart isn't going to help on the mcat. i said that if you aren't a genius, you can still do well granted you put in a lot more effort than the smarter person. for a small minority of people, even working hard doesn't get them anywhere. people at the top schools tend to not need to study as much, and they can also get away with low or average mcat scores if their grades are fine, but it's crucial for those at lower ranked schools to do really well on the mcat if their grades aren't stellar. this has to do with the reputation of the school. what's this bs you keep bringing up about theory that's tested on the mcat and my premises blah blah blah. it makes no sense.

 

[Haybrant]

i don't mean to come off as arrogant or bitchy at all. what exactly are you accusing me of being arrogant about? i made a mistake in thinking that what's true of my school is true in general for schools considered to be at the same level. i admit i was wrong in thinking that. 😕

woah now construct; havent read the whole thread but I took an mcat course with alot of people from your school and became good friends with them and a good majority of them worked pretty hard to get over a 30; they didnt do it in their sleep. Some suceeded, some didnt. I know, we could get into a whole argument how this is sample bias b.c it was a course etc... but seriously, the top students where I go to school (and we've agreed in the past the top at mine are similar to the top at yours) dont walk into the mcat and score 30+'s without a decent amount of prep. Though it happens every now and then the so-called genius's are too specialized to ace the test without prep in some subject area.