I was wondering if anyone has any insight about either of these programs. These were my top school- both programs seem fascinating, the faculty at both are phenomenal, and they are in great areas. However my concern is regarding tuition cost and quality internship placement. Pepperdine is being generous and offering me a scholarship that would result in my cost for the total program being between 25k- 40k. Whereas Stanford is giving me only 15k and I would be paying 117-140k total. But the thing Stanford has is its nationally recognized name, recent match rate (88%) and placements(Harvard, UCLA, Yale, USC Children's hospital etc.) vast research opportunities (most students are published and present at conferences prior to grad) a great relationship with the Palo Alto VA (which is like the #2 VA in the country). I am just not all the way convinced that these opportunities would be worth all of the loans I would have when I graduated- and if ultimately either school could get me the same placement. Any feed back would be greatly appreciated.
Pepperdine vs PGSP- Stanford Consortium PsyD
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$100k difference in cost....easy answer, go with the funded option.
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Oh man! I would go for the Stanford option! I love Pepperdine but had I been accepted at Pacific I would have gone there. I also got some funding but you would get to work with really good professors at Pacific. Also if you think about it, yeah you get loans but then when you graduate the chances of getting a really great internship with the VA (which was totally my dream! you lucky lucky person!!!) are huge and then employment opportunities are much better.
Maybe you could contact current students at both schools and see what they think?
Ohhh also, dont forget if you want to work with military, you can get rid of your loans that way too!
Maybe you could contact current students at both schools and see what they think?
Ohhh also, dont forget if you want to work with military, you can get rid of your loans that way too!
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First of all, congratulations on your acceptance to both programs! I am a second year student in the Consortium and would be happy to answer any questions you may have about the program. I can definitely understand why the funding at Pepperdine seems appealing compared to your funding package at PGSP-Stanford. When I started thinking about paying for grad school, I was really nervous about the idea of taking on loans.
When I did some more research, however, I found that there are a lot of good loan forgiveness options available, as the PP mentioned. There are also ways to refinance your loans to pay a small monthly amount over a long period of time, so that your loan payments don't have a huge impact on your overall financial picture. While this certainly isn't something to take on likely, I think that with good planning and research you can find a way to pay off your loans that works for you.
I chose between this program and a funded research heavy PhD. There were a LOT of reasons why I made that choice, and there may be people who would have made a different choice if they were in my shoes. Ultimately, I decided that having the career I want, and the training I need to get there, was worth taking on the loans. I have had the opportunity to publish and to present at conferences, but I have also had top notch clinical training at the Palo Alto VA and at Stanford Hospital and Clinics. I feel confident that I will be a strong applicant for internship and jobs, and I have the Stanford name and the strength of the program to thank for that.
If you have additional questions, feel free to post here or PM me.
When I did some more research, however, I found that there are a lot of good loan forgiveness options available, as the PP mentioned. There are also ways to refinance your loans to pay a small monthly amount over a long period of time, so that your loan payments don't have a huge impact on your overall financial picture. While this certainly isn't something to take on likely, I think that with good planning and research you can find a way to pay off your loans that works for you.
I chose between this program and a funded research heavy PhD. There were a LOT of reasons why I made that choice, and there may be people who would have made a different choice if they were in my shoes. Ultimately, I decided that having the career I want, and the training I need to get there, was worth taking on the loans. I have had the opportunity to publish and to present at conferences, but I have also had top notch clinical training at the Palo Alto VA and at Stanford Hospital and Clinics. I feel confident that I will be a strong applicant for internship and jobs, and I have the Stanford name and the strength of the program to thank for that.
If you have additional questions, feel free to post here or PM me.
I went to PGSP. Yeah, I got the plumb VA position but if I had to do it again I would opt for a partially or fully funded program. I'd do Pepperdine if I were you. Those loans are like a bad, expensive houseguest that never leaves.
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Yeah I hear the whole money thing but its seems that thats the only thing holding you back from PGSP? I would also make sure that Pepperdine if funding all five years (I know in my case they will be funding the first year but the rest are still up in the air).
I know Jon has an issue with professional schools, and for the most part I would agree having been there and done that. But if you do a quick search you'd see PGSP is far above the rest.
Now..Pepperdine....I love it....I did my masters there and I can't wait to start the doc program this fall....honestly its a tough call....(if money wasnt an issue that is) if however u are fully funded at Pepperdine for five years....yeah.....id say stick to that
I know Jon has an issue with professional schools, and for the most part I would agree having been there and done that. But if you do a quick search you'd see PGSP is far above the rest.
Now..Pepperdine....I love it....I did my masters there and I can't wait to start the doc program this fall....honestly its a tough call....(if money wasnt an issue that is) if however u are fully funded at Pepperdine for five years....yeah.....id say stick to that
I do worry significantly about paying back the loans despite all the loan forgiveness options... but you also brought up a good point I worry about- feeling like a Stanford half sibling- given the whole 50% PGSP/ 50% Stanford courses and faculty- I wonder does it get as much credibility as students say. Is PGSP a bad school?
Thanks a lot. Your experiences are impressive. Did you find it difficult to obtain these research and publication opportunities- or are they readily available? Are there anythings about the school you don't like? I have heard the administration process isn't great- but that's it in regards to cons. Well that and cost
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In my opinion, there are few things that would make any program worth nearly $100k+ more in tuition and fees to attend. But again, that's just my opinion.
I also have to say, you'll certainly get to go to the VAPAHCS for practicum if you want - due to the whole consortium business, students are practically guaranteed practicum training slots at the VA when you go to the PGSP/PAU program. However, not that I can speak for all the training programs at the VA (I'm part of a group at the VA that deals with two postdocs and about 1/2 dozen interns every year out of a much larger group of both), but we don't typically take PGSP/PAU trainees for internship and postdoc. They just don't tend to stack up against the students from funded programs.
I'm a little baffled by the idea of taking PGSP over a fully funded, research-heavy clinical program, or a partially funded program like Pepperdine. Really. I think my investment in my education at PGSP/PAU turned out pretty well compared to many in my cohort, and I'm not unhappy, but if I had to do it over again, I really would go for a funded program.
I'm a little baffled by the idea of taking PGSP over a fully funded, research-heavy clinical program, or a partially funded program like Pepperdine. Really. I think my investment in my education at PGSP/PAU turned out pretty well compared to many in my cohort, and I'm not unhappy, but if I had to do it over again, I really would go for a funded program.
I don't know if this is exactly what you're referring to re. "profit", but PGSP/PAU certainly paid a lot of $$$ to buy into the consortium with Stanford. They had to sell off part of their physical plant in Palo Alto to afford it.
So, Stanford got a lot of $$$ and a lot of warm bodies for practicum training at the Psychology Service at PAD, and PGSP/PAU got to put that Stanford seal on the diplomas of their Psy.D. grads, and access to some more Stanford faculty for teaching classes and supervising students.
Don't get me wrong - I personally *don't* consider PGSP/PAU at all comparable to the Argosys or Alliants of the world. You do get some quality training and experiences at PAU, and many students end up with good careers. I'm at the VA, several of my cohort are at the VA as well, one is a professor at UCSD managing multiple funded projects, and we do hold up well, generally, against a lot of other folks from other (funded as well as non funded) programs.
But we all have huge amounts of debt, and I can't say that my research training was as good as I could have gotten at an average funded program. I was able to get off easy for my dissertation, IMHO - wouldn't have flown at a funded program. Again, this seems like an easy choice here. If geography is not a major concern, take the funded program.
There has been lots of interesting discussion so far about this topic. I appreciate that most posters have avoided personal attacks on this thread. I will try to respond to all of the questions posted, but feel free to re-post or PM me if I miss some questions.
One of the reasons that the PGSP-Stanford PsyD Consortium has such a strong relationship with the VA Palo Alto Health Care System is that the VA is part of the Stanford University School of Medicine- all under the same department chair at Stanford. In addition the the rotations at the VA that are open to other schools in the area, the PsyD Consortium has established its own captive training clinic there for its' students.
I actually can't speak to the Chicago area schools that you mention, but I think that there is evidence that Internship and Postdoctoral Training Directors do think that PGSP-Stanford PsyD candidates are of very high quality. Just as APA does in their site visits, I suggest we examine the program's distal outcomes. For example, not to get into a debate about PhD versus PsyD, but there are a number of internship sites who have matched with students from my program who are historically more PhD friendly indicating, in part, the value these sites place on a strong foundation in research.
E.g., if you look at the APPIC data for each program regarding the PhD/PsyD breakdown for the last 3 years, you will see that the percent of PsyDs that these programs match with hovers around 5%.
Consortium Students matched at these types of sites
Duke University Psychiatry Department - 2 students
UCLA Neuropsychiatric Institute - 2 students
Cambridge Health Alliance/Harvard Medical School - 2 students
UCSF Department of Psychiatry - 1 student
UCSD/VA - 1 student
VA Maryland HCS/University of Maryland School of Medicine - 2 students
and the list goes on
Also, our graduates have also landed exciting and high caliber postdoctoral training sites as well:
VA Palo Alto Healthcare System
SF VA
Mount Sinai
McLean/Harvard
UCLA Neuropsychiatric Institute
Cornell
Columbia
Stanford University Dept of Psychiatry
etc...
Dr Gero, I am not sure if you attended the PGSP-Stanford PsyD consortium or the PAU PhD program. It would be helpful if you could clarify this point, because some of your posts seem to imply that you attended the PsyD program but you haven't explicitly stated that. The PhD program is, of course, a vastly different experience, so some of your points may not be applicable to the PsyD program. I also don't know what program at the VA you are involved with, but several of our graduates have obtained postdocs and jobs at the PAVAHCS. Your claim that PGSP-Stanford graduates are not competitive for those positions simply isn't accurate.
GoPsyD, you asked a few questions about the program that I will try to answer quickly (I know this is already a long post).
Difficulty of obtaining research opportunities and publications: I did not find it at all difficult to obtain a research position that led to publications. When I started the program, I looked for professors in the Stanford Psychiatry Dept who were doing research in areas I was interested in. I sent my current research advisor an email my first week of classes, and 3 weeks into my program I started working on the project that led to my first publication. Several of my colleagues decided not to jump into research right away, but by a few months into the program everyone who wanted a position had obtained one. The practicum coordinator sends out several emails every week at the beginning of the year with supplemental practicum opportunities. These can be purely clinical, purely research, or a combination, and most first years take on at least 1. So that is another way to get involved with research if you don't want to email professors asking them if they have openings.
Anything I don't like about the program: I absolutely love the training and education that I have gotten at this program. While I have never personally run into problems, I have heard minor complaints from other students about administrative concerns like submitting forms. Just like at any major institution, the administration works hard to make sure things run smoothly, but they have a lot going on and there are occasional mistakes made. In comparison to my undergrad institution, I have found the administration here actually much easier to work with. They are really responsive to student concerns and if an error is made they work quickly to correct it.
Is PGSP a half sibling?: The great thing about the consortium is that PGSP by itself is a highly respected professional school. I can definitely understand your concern that when people hear PGSP-Stanford they might say "Stanford is great, but what's PGSP?" That was something I was curious about before I started the program as well. When I have gone on practicum interviews and networked with other professionals in the area, I have found that their view of the Consortium is overwhelmingly positive. They recognize the strengths of both PGSP and Stanford and they recognize that our program combines the best resources from both schools. In terms of feeling like a half sibling, we are fortunate to have access to the best resources at Stanford, and I feel as much like a Stanford student as a PGSP student. The truth is, I don't feel like just a student at either school; I really feel like a member of the Consortium, and I'm proud to identify as such in the community.
One of the reasons that the PGSP-Stanford PsyD Consortium has such a strong relationship with the VA Palo Alto Health Care System is that the VA is part of the Stanford University School of Medicine- all under the same department chair at Stanford. In addition the the rotations at the VA that are open to other schools in the area, the PsyD Consortium has established its own captive training clinic there for its' students.
I actually can't speak to the Chicago area schools that you mention, but I think that there is evidence that Internship and Postdoctoral Training Directors do think that PGSP-Stanford PsyD candidates are of very high quality. Just as APA does in their site visits, I suggest we examine the program's distal outcomes. For example, not to get into a debate about PhD versus PsyD, but there are a number of internship sites who have matched with students from my program who are historically more PhD friendly indicating, in part, the value these sites place on a strong foundation in research.
E.g., if you look at the APPIC data for each program regarding the PhD/PsyD breakdown for the last 3 years, you will see that the percent of PsyDs that these programs match with hovers around 5%.
Consortium Students matched at these types of sites
Duke University Psychiatry Department - 2 students
UCLA Neuropsychiatric Institute - 2 students
Cambridge Health Alliance/Harvard Medical School - 2 students
UCSF Department of Psychiatry - 1 student
UCSD/VA - 1 student
VA Maryland HCS/University of Maryland School of Medicine - 2 students
and the list goes on
Also, our graduates have also landed exciting and high caliber postdoctoral training sites as well:
VA Palo Alto Healthcare System
SF VA
Mount Sinai
McLean/Harvard
UCLA Neuropsychiatric Institute
Cornell
Columbia
Stanford University Dept of Psychiatry
etc...
Dr Gero, I am not sure if you attended the PGSP-Stanford PsyD consortium or the PAU PhD program. It would be helpful if you could clarify this point, because some of your posts seem to imply that you attended the PsyD program but you haven't explicitly stated that. The PhD program is, of course, a vastly different experience, so some of your points may not be applicable to the PsyD program. I also don't know what program at the VA you are involved with, but several of our graduates have obtained postdocs and jobs at the PAVAHCS. Your claim that PGSP-Stanford graduates are not competitive for those positions simply isn't accurate.
GoPsyD, you asked a few questions about the program that I will try to answer quickly (I know this is already a long post).
Difficulty of obtaining research opportunities and publications: I did not find it at all difficult to obtain a research position that led to publications. When I started the program, I looked for professors in the Stanford Psychiatry Dept who were doing research in areas I was interested in. I sent my current research advisor an email my first week of classes, and 3 weeks into my program I started working on the project that led to my first publication. Several of my colleagues decided not to jump into research right away, but by a few months into the program everyone who wanted a position had obtained one. The practicum coordinator sends out several emails every week at the beginning of the year with supplemental practicum opportunities. These can be purely clinical, purely research, or a combination, and most first years take on at least 1. So that is another way to get involved with research if you don't want to email professors asking them if they have openings.
Anything I don't like about the program: I absolutely love the training and education that I have gotten at this program. While I have never personally run into problems, I have heard minor complaints from other students about administrative concerns like submitting forms. Just like at any major institution, the administration works hard to make sure things run smoothly, but they have a lot going on and there are occasional mistakes made. In comparison to my undergrad institution, I have found the administration here actually much easier to work with. They are really responsive to student concerns and if an error is made they work quickly to correct it.
Is PGSP a half sibling?: The great thing about the consortium is that PGSP by itself is a highly respected professional school. I can definitely understand your concern that when people hear PGSP-Stanford they might say "Stanford is great, but what's PGSP?" That was something I was curious about before I started the program as well. When I have gone on practicum interviews and networked with other professionals in the area, I have found that their view of the Consortium is overwhelmingly positive. They recognize the strengths of both PGSP and Stanford and they recognize that our program combines the best resources from both schools. In terms of feeling like a half sibling, we are fortunate to have access to the best resources at Stanford, and I feel as much like a Stanford student as a PGSP student. The truth is, I don't feel like just a student at either school; I really feel like a member of the Consortium, and I'm proud to identify as such in the community.
I graduated from PGSP when it was PGSP (not PAU) and before it had the PsyD program or consortium - but I'm not sure what of my points doesn't apply to the PsyD program. And, again, I'm not saying PsyD students haven't landed any internship or postdoc slots at the VAPAHCS, I just am not aware of any, and we certainly haven't appointed any in my group in the years I've been here.
My main issue with PGSP/PAU is cost. I just checked the tuition/fee structure and it looks like tuition has appreciated by around 30-40% since I graduated from there in 2004. They quote a full-time, quarterly combined fee and tuition cost at 13K. That's *per quarter* (am I reading that wrong?). http://www.paloaltou.edu/sites/default/files/u10/TUITION FEES FOR WEBSITE FY10-11 v4a 04-19-10.pdf
That means by the time you graduate you'll be owing over 225K, give or take (again, does my math look right?).That's flabbergasting. I was lucky enough to get a rate of under 2 percent when I consolidated my not-small loan principal. I understand now you can't get anything less than around 6.8% by law for the kinds of loans you would need to fund your education. These kind of numbers are approaching the level where it's really hard for me to wrap my head around it.
Unless you've banked a huge amount of cash from selling your dot-com business or you have wealthy parents I can't see justifying attending PAU from a financial standpoint. Did it get me working at a job I really like? Yes, and that's great, and that's definitely a benefit. Could I have gotten into somewhere else (funded) if I had taken a more patient, disciplined approach towards doing my graduate work? Yes.
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Hi Everyone---
Wow there are some heated discussions on this thread! But then again, choosing a graduate program is a very stressful decision that can create a great deal of passion and anxiety for all parties.
I am a 4th year graduate student at the PGSP-Stanford Psy.D. Consortium. I recently matched at the Gulf Coast VA in Biloxi, MS. It was one of my top choices and I am thrilled to be going there this July. If it is helpful, I would be happy to add my 2 cents about internship, our alumni, and $$. I hope it isn't too late ;-)
Firstly, it is very important to keep in mind the the PGSP--Stanford Psy.D Consortium is very different from the PAU/PGSP Ph.D. program. We receive very different training, have different problematic issues (financial, programmatic, etc), different focus, some different faculty, and different class sizes. I say this because it is very common for applicants to get confused between the 2 programs. I cannot speak to the Ph.D. program, nor can I give me opinion on training in that program, because we are so different. I can however, give you my opinions on my training with the consortium in the past 4 years and am happy to (just shoot me a private message).
This year 28 of 32 students matched for internship (89%). This was our largest class to date to go through the match process. 26 of those 28 student matched at APA accredited internships. Of the those 26, the "adult focused" people matched at VAs, academic medical centers, well known private hospitals including: UNC, Yale, St. Luke's, Selpulva VA, LA VA, Gulf Coast VA, Oklahoma Consortium, South East Louisiana VA (New Orleans), North Port VA, Vanderbilt Consortium, Ashville VA (APPIC), Columbus Ohio VA, Cambridge Health Alliance (Harvard Affiliate), Denver Health Care Alliance and me- Gulf Coast VA. I am sure I am missing placements, but off the top of my head those are where my fellow classmates will be heading in the next few months. I cannot speak to the "child focused" people, however I know that they were all incredibly happy with their placements as well. I am telling you about our matches because I think that one thing to keep in mind when thinking about a program, are the contacts you intend to make in graduate school. These contacts will be more important than anything else in your career and will help you get your foot in the door in many ways. VAs tend to be incestuous ;-)
As far as alumni go, our program is still very young. I cannot say with confidence that people are paying off their loans quickly. I CAN say with certainty, that every single one of our graduates are employed. MANY are employed within a VA system. Currently, 2 alums are at the PAVA and supervising some of us. Recently, there has been a huge effort to connect with our alums and they have talked to us about suggestions in paying off loans after we graduate. They didn't seem particularly stressed out by the process... then again people don't tend to talk about financial difficulties that openly.
At the end of the day, there is alot of money that you put into loans in this program. Our program is not cheap and in no way will I dispute that. It is not uncommon for great candidates to decide to go elsewhere that is funded or to wait for quite some time to decide what to do (I was one of these people). I CAN say, that THUS FAR the debt I am racking up has been well worth it. I believe I am set up nicely to pursue my career ambitions and goals. Perhaps I will change my song 10 years from now, but I, unfortunately, cannot predict the future. HAHA
I hope this was helpful. You have a tough decision ahead of you. I wish you the best of luck making it. And please feel free to message me if you need any more information.
<3
Wow there are some heated discussions on this thread! But then again, choosing a graduate program is a very stressful decision that can create a great deal of passion and anxiety for all parties.
I am a 4th year graduate student at the PGSP-Stanford Psy.D. Consortium. I recently matched at the Gulf Coast VA in Biloxi, MS. It was one of my top choices and I am thrilled to be going there this July. If it is helpful, I would be happy to add my 2 cents about internship, our alumni, and $$. I hope it isn't too late ;-)
Firstly, it is very important to keep in mind the the PGSP--Stanford Psy.D Consortium is very different from the PAU/PGSP Ph.D. program. We receive very different training, have different problematic issues (financial, programmatic, etc), different focus, some different faculty, and different class sizes. I say this because it is very common for applicants to get confused between the 2 programs. I cannot speak to the Ph.D. program, nor can I give me opinion on training in that program, because we are so different. I can however, give you my opinions on my training with the consortium in the past 4 years and am happy to (just shoot me a private message).
This year 28 of 32 students matched for internship (89%). This was our largest class to date to go through the match process. 26 of those 28 student matched at APA accredited internships. Of the those 26, the "adult focused" people matched at VAs, academic medical centers, well known private hospitals including: UNC, Yale, St. Luke's, Selpulva VA, LA VA, Gulf Coast VA, Oklahoma Consortium, South East Louisiana VA (New Orleans), North Port VA, Vanderbilt Consortium, Ashville VA (APPIC), Columbus Ohio VA, Cambridge Health Alliance (Harvard Affiliate), Denver Health Care Alliance and me- Gulf Coast VA. I am sure I am missing placements, but off the top of my head those are where my fellow classmates will be heading in the next few months. I cannot speak to the "child focused" people, however I know that they were all incredibly happy with their placements as well. I am telling you about our matches because I think that one thing to keep in mind when thinking about a program, are the contacts you intend to make in graduate school. These contacts will be more important than anything else in your career and will help you get your foot in the door in many ways. VAs tend to be incestuous ;-)
As far as alumni go, our program is still very young. I cannot say with confidence that people are paying off their loans quickly. I CAN say with certainty, that every single one of our graduates are employed. MANY are employed within a VA system. Currently, 2 alums are at the PAVA and supervising some of us. Recently, there has been a huge effort to connect with our alums and they have talked to us about suggestions in paying off loans after we graduate. They didn't seem particularly stressed out by the process... then again people don't tend to talk about financial difficulties that openly.
At the end of the day, there is alot of money that you put into loans in this program. Our program is not cheap and in no way will I dispute that. It is not uncommon for great candidates to decide to go elsewhere that is funded or to wait for quite some time to decide what to do (I was one of these people). I CAN say, that THUS FAR the debt I am racking up has been well worth it. I believe I am set up nicely to pursue my career ambitions and goals. Perhaps I will change my song 10 years from now, but I, unfortunately, cannot predict the future. HAHA
I hope this was helpful. You have a tough decision ahead of you. I wish you the best of luck making it. And please feel free to message me if you need any more information.
<3
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I thought Pepperdine was university-based and not a professional school.
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Your right it is a university- based program
Thank you so much your feed back was really helpful! Congrats on your internship and it is great to hear how much you have been enjoying your Consortium experience!
Thank you so much for your extensive well informed post. You have def given me a lot to think about... I am sure I will have more questions soon 🙂
GoPsyD, there is certainly a lot of information to digest on this thread! I wish you all the best with this decision. Choosing a graduate program is a long and difficult process, but luckily you have some great options to choose from. Feel free to post or PM me with more questions.
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Wow this got lenghty!
SO i was reading over some of the posts and having been in the masters program, worked with admissions and now having been accepted into the psyd program at Pepperdine I gotta clarify one thing that might be important for you
The PsyD at Pepperdine is not research focused. It is basically meant for you to train as a clinician more so than a researcher/scholar. In fact when I interviewed I asked about research opportunities and the professor said I would have to actively search for opportunities as it is not a focus of the program. For me it doesn't matter as my focus is clinical, but its something to be considered if you want/need research.
Now the professors at Pepperdine are great. Through the masters I had classes with professors that also teach in the PsyD and I loved every minute of it (hence why I applied for the doctorate). However, they will focus a lot more on the clinical aspect and not so much on helping you publish or do research etc.
I wish you the best in your decision, and maybe Ill see ya next semester in class!!
Take care
SO i was reading over some of the posts and having been in the masters program, worked with admissions and now having been accepted into the psyd program at Pepperdine I gotta clarify one thing that might be important for you
The PsyD at Pepperdine is not research focused. It is basically meant for you to train as a clinician more so than a researcher/scholar. In fact when I interviewed I asked about research opportunities and the professor said I would have to actively search for opportunities as it is not a focus of the program. For me it doesn't matter as my focus is clinical, but its something to be considered if you want/need research.
Now the professors at Pepperdine are great. Through the masters I had classes with professors that also teach in the PsyD and I loved every minute of it (hence why I applied for the doctorate). However, they will focus a lot more on the clinical aspect and not so much on helping you publish or do research etc.
I wish you the best in your decision, and maybe Ill see ya next semester in class!!
Take care
this has been a great amount of info to take in...but I am very grateful for all the perspectives shared... thanks for your input and for the well wishes...I will def have more questions soon!
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Sometimes these threads get needlessly convex.
There is a simple point that anyone applying to doctoral programs needs to know: that spending no money to get an education is less stupid than spending a ton of money on an education.
I am also a cautionary tale of professional school chaos. I'm about to walk with my PhD in May but it will have cost me around $200,000. You applicants should be gasping for air right about now. If you're not, then you're really in trouble.
What do you think that does for my chances of qualifying for a mortgage? How about those things in life that really matter? Don't forget those; grad school aspirations can make people myopic. You're likely young(er), dumb(er), and full of...well, my point is that your life may change at the end of your program and it would be nice to have financial solvency when it does.
Don't believe that myth that you cant get good clinical training at funded research programs. Truthfully, I obtained most of my clinical depth in out in the field and from my own reading/supervision. And, post doctorally you can go to any number of training institutions to specialize.
So please think or if you really are set on putting yourself in debt, go to med school and be a psychiatrist- they can make enough money to warrant to investment (sometimes).
Head the words people, seriously.
There is a simple point that anyone applying to doctoral programs needs to know: that spending no money to get an education is less stupid than spending a ton of money on an education.
I am also a cautionary tale of professional school chaos. I'm about to walk with my PhD in May but it will have cost me around $200,000. You applicants should be gasping for air right about now. If you're not, then you're really in trouble.
What do you think that does for my chances of qualifying for a mortgage? How about those things in life that really matter? Don't forget those; grad school aspirations can make people myopic. You're likely young(er), dumb(er), and full of...well, my point is that your life may change at the end of your program and it would be nice to have financial solvency when it does.
Don't believe that myth that you cant get good clinical training at funded research programs. Truthfully, I obtained most of my clinical depth in out in the field and from my own reading/supervision. And, post doctorally you can go to any number of training institutions to specialize.
So please think or if you really are set on putting yourself in debt, go to med school and be a psychiatrist- they can make enough money to warrant to investment (sometimes).
Head the words people, seriously.
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As you are about to walk with that much debt, what would you suggest that future students do differently? I have heard that LCSW is the way to go for practice, because you incur much less debt and finish school more quickly; however, at the clinical trial I'm on, a superior indicated she'd much rather hire a Ph.D. or Psy.D. over a master's-level therapist any day. tl;dr wat do
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You shouldn't base your career goals on what one supervisor says (who likely has a doctorate). There are plenty of hospitals and agencies that prefer to hire master's level clinicians as well. Overall, we don't have any evidence that a PsyD from a professional school is impressive to employers. I would imagine that an MSW from a well-known school commands more respect in many circumstances. Bottomline, you don't want to spend more than 50K on a graduate degree in the mental health field (ideally you would spend less or get funding).
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Thank you so much! That's what I was thinking as well, especially because most of the clinicians at our laboratory are master's level. I am a bit concerned about what I would give up by getting an MSW vs. even a Psy.D., in terms of coursework and experience. For instance, I see that PGSP-Stanford's Psy.D. offers very specific courses, like DBT for Borderline Personality Disorder, whereas UCLA (an academically rigorous school) offers basic approaches to psychotherapy, and I think CBT is discussed within it. Of course, I could also do fieldwork and gain these experiences, and also hours when trying to gain an LCSW. I am also not quite prepared to leave research behind me, so my mind is not made up as to what to do. I am just severely geographically limited :\
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If you are geographically limited, a PsyD doesn't make much sense. You will most likely have to move for internship/post-doc in order to land a good spot.
You will get the best psychotherapy training through supervision and hands-on training as opposed to coursework. Coursework is not enough at all so don't be impressed by DBT courses etc. It's not worth 200K.
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The only thing? You really should not minimize cost. It is one of the most important factors and will have lifelong implications.
I fear for students that read posts that minimize the impact of loans. As for the person above who I assume was referring to loan fogiveness and IBR, I hope that they realize a) not everyone qualifies and even with IBR, you end up paying a lot more money with interest b) those programs (e.g., PSLF) could be taken away anytime.
I'd go with funding.
Interesting read, i actually didn't know until reading this thread there was no such thing as a non-professional school PsyD. I never looked into applying to any and I always wondered why they were unanimously deemed expensive without fail...
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deleted407083
I believe there are different camps, but the whole PsyD implies professional school.
Prestige is typically in the following order:
1) University-based PsyD
2) Free-standing Professional School (FSPS)
3) For-profit FSPS
All are considered professional schools because they are clinically based to produce professionals in the field of psychology as opposed to academia. Which often limits finding. Some university based ones offer full funding, depending. Typically cost does go up going down that list above.
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Although, ironically (outlier?) the PGSP/Stanford PsyD consortium, which is a university-based, non-profit program, is likely the most expensive professional psychology program in the world.
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I don't think anyone considers Palo Alto University a university based program even though its affiliated with Stanford. I was thinking of Rutgers or Baylor as university based programs.
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I don't think the term "university-based" has been operationalized particularly well around here. What's the difference between "affiliated" and "based"?
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deleted407083
I took it as housed within a university.
I am attending DU in the fall and they are pricey as well, but definitely part of the University as a whole.
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You mean "if the bulk of classes taught and the schools administration is physically located on a university campus" then it's "university-based"?
I don't mean to sound pedantic. It's just that I've heard of people referring to PGSP/Stanford as "university-based" as well.
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deleted407083
I'm not sure much about PGSP. I guess they would be half-"university-based" since aren't half their classes at Stanford.
Not sure, my program is fully incorporated with the university which incorporates the full university branding, and resources.
