Personal Finance and Advisors

[Shimmy8]

I know most of those in this group keep things simple. Index funds, treasury bills maybe a rental property, small crypto, etc.

For those of you who have multiple different types of assets, real estate, REITs/syndicates, etc…do you have an advisor of any kind?

I’m at a bit of a crossroads financially, have LOTS of options, and am curious how some of you all handled the transition attending life of all debt paid off but seemingly unlimited options to take the next steps.

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[aneftp]

My previous financial advisor lives in a 3 plus million dollar home and plays golf 3x a week weekdays.

While I slave away in a 2 plus million dollar home working.

We are in same exact neighborhood. He’s down the street. I see him all the time at the country club

‘Enough said.

Just index investing. Setup a will.

That’s all you need.

 

[abolt18]

I've been a die-hard reader/follower of WCI since before med school. Started reading his blog in early 2013, listened to every podcast, read 2 of his books, and read a bunch of other PF books/listened to other podcasts. Just throwing my 2 cents in even though I don't fall into the category you described.

My main advice would be to keep it simple. Simple is easy and will more than allow you to meet your financial needs. The more I read and the more deeply I understand complex topics, the more I'm convinced that simplicity is key, and I don't need any of that extra crap. I am nearly 100% in VTSAX (or equivalent) and some cash that's getting >5% in the vanguard money market.

I love that I just put more in every paycheck, don't have to rebalance, and if I died or became disabled, it's unbelievably easy for my wife to handle (because she's not interested in personal finance in the same way I am).

Every time I take a deep dive into other investments, like RE in its MANY flavors, I'm more convinced that it's not for me at this time in my life (early attending). After 2 years as an attending, I took my net worth from about $-200K to nearly $+500K, and the first year I made 45% less than the 2nd year. What I need is more time with my family, not "perfectly optimized exposure to emerging markets and commodities" or whatever suits your fancy.

Good luck!

 

[okayplayer]

I've been a die-hard reader/follower of WCI since before med school. Started reading his blog in early 2013, listened to every podcast, read 2 of his books, and read a bunch of other PF books/listened to other podcasts. Just throwing my 2 cents in even though I don't fall into the category you described.

My main advice would be to keep it simple. Simple is easy and will more than allow you to meet your financial needs. The more I read and the more deeply I understand complex topics, the more I'm convinced that simplicity is key, and I don't need any of that extra crap. I am nearly 100% in VTSAX (or equivalent) and some cash that's getting >5% in the vanguard money market.

I love that I just put more in every paycheck, don't have to rebalance, and if I died or became disabled, it's unbelievably easy for my wife to handle (because she's not interested in personal finance in the same way I am).

Every time I take a deep dive into other investments, like RE in its MANY flavors, I'm more convinced that it's not for me at this time in my life (early attending). After 2 years as an attending, I took my net worth from about $-200K to nearly $+500K, and the first year I made 45% less than the 2nd year. What I need is more time with my family, not "perfectly optimized exposure to emerging markets and commodities" or whatever suits your fancy.

Good luck!

This is really well said.

My wife and I take a similar approach. 10 years out of residency. NW is up 4M from the day we finished residency. About to pay off our mortgage in a few months and will be debt free at that point.

Nothing novel about our investments. Our residence is worth about 900k which we will soon own outright. Otherwise the balance of our NW is 120k in paid off cars and the rest in a mix of 401k/CBP/Roth/HSA/529/brokerage accounts. Basically all in total stock market index funds. I don’t have an advisor and don’t plan to moving forward.

I also don’t make that much $ compared to a lot of people here. We max out pretax options, pay our bills each month and the balance goes in our brokerage account. It varies from year to year, but these days we invest about 350-400k across accounts per year.

 

[BLADEMDA]

This is 2024 with 2025 around the corner. What I mean is that the software available today is incredible allowing a DIY investor to perform at the level of a professional provided he/she invests the effort (not just the money). You Tube has several fantastic CFP on the site. The software you can purchase these days allows you to track your expenses, portfolio, allocation, etc. Some of it is FREE and others cost a few hundred dollars. With AI, the software will eventually replace advisors IMHO.

Read a book or two by William Bernstein and WCI. Stick with ETFs and low cost investments. If you still find the process too much then Robo Investors charge 0.25% (Beterment, Wealthfront) or Facet Wealth at $2,000 per year (flat fee). Again, I don't recommend any advisor but rather self education and software.

 

[BLADEMDA]

I know most of those in this group keep things simple. Index funds, treasury bills maybe a rental property, small crypto, etc.

For those of you who have multiple different types of assets, real estate, REITs/syndicates, etc…do you have an advisor of any kind?

I’m at a bit of a crossroads financially, have LOTS of options, and am curious how some of you all handled the transition attending life of all debt paid off but seemingly unlimited options to take the next steps.

Flat fee Advisors Only if you need advice. AUM fees are absurd in this day and age.

 

[sloh]

And remember all the time you choose to invest in real estate or beating the market is opportunity cost. That’s time that can be used to work more at your primary job and shove into index funds

 

[BLADEMDA]

Best Financial Advisors for Doctors | White Coat Investor

Are you a high-income professional in need of a financial advisor? You've come to the right place. This is the WCI list of recommended advisors.

www.whitecoatinvestor.com

I have an Advisor. I use several advanced Financial software apps. My total cost for everything is less than $1,000 per year. I can see that cost going up a bit to maybe $1500 as I add more advanced software.

 

[BLADEMDA]

And remember all the time you choose to invest in real estate or beating the market is opportunity cost. That’s time that can be used to work more at your primary job and shove into index funds

The goal isn't to beat the market. Its less volatility with slightly lower returns for a smoother ride. Tax efficiency as well.

 

[Shimmy8]

I’m also 7-8 years out. Student loans paid off. Two short term rentals. Lots of passive losses. 401k/IRA/HSA more than enough for my age.

I can easily just index it away. Been reading WCI as well for a long time, which has served me very well. I just feel like there is opportunity to continue my passive index fund investment, but at the same time explore other opportunities.

Very first world problem, I know. Was just curious what others in similar situations have done.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Early Retirement Academy!

A financial advisor can be helpful (I am one!), but it depends on the stage of life you are in and experience you're looking for. I want you to retire early with confidence, without retiring too early. I believe this course may be sufficient for many of you and you may not need a financial advisor.

ari-taublieb.mykajabi.com

Lifetime cost $300. Flat fee. Lots of videos on You Tube as well. You will still need to read William Bernstein and WCI. I am not a shill for anyone or anything but rather showing you the same software an advisor would use. I use similar advisor level software for my portfolio.

 

[sloh]

The goal isn't to beat the market. Its less volatility with slightly lower returns for a smoother ride. Tax efficiency as well.

Yeah but even with that, it’s just shifting the stock/bond allocation over time as you get near true retirement

 

[Iso4ane]

Single dude, four years out at an academic shop. Since becoming an attending, I’ve put away ~175K per year being paying down loans/maxing out investment accounts/down payment for a house. I do have some single stock picks, but been considering shifting it towards whole market stocks; though granted my single stock picks are not too dissimilar from those held my major ETFs and mutual funds.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Single dude, four years out at an academic shop. Since becoming an attending, I’ve put away ~175K per year being paying down loans/maxing out investment accounts/down payment for a house. I do have some single stock picks, but been considering shifting it towards whole market stocks; though granted my single stock picks are not too dissimilar from those held my major ETFs and mutual funds.

Unlike others on SDN a diversified portfolio consists of 8-10 ETFs. This will include international, mid caps, small caps, large growth, large value, +/- bonds,
Real estate, etc. VTI is inadequate IMHO for diversification. The past decade has skewed heavily towards large cap growth.

 

[aneftp]

Single dude, four years out at an academic shop. Since becoming an attending, I’ve put away ~175K per year being paying down loans/maxing out investment accounts/down payment for a house. I do have some single stock picks, but been considering shifting it towards whole market stocks; though granted my single stock picks are not too dissimilar from those held my major ETFs and mutual funds.

Stay single. Plus no kids.

Even if you do get married. Prenup plus give your mom or dad all ur income to lessen any potential child support. That will cover everything.

 

[PainInTheAnes]

Stay single. Plus no kids.

Even if you do get married. Prenup plus give your mom or dad all ur income to lessen any potential child support. That will cover everything.

The old “live your life in fear of your spouse every day” strategy 😉

Young people should put their energy into finding other good people. My married friends have been at it for 10-15 years with their spouses and the benefit to them and their kids has been worth far more than the money they could’ve had otherwise. Most cases spouse earns equally or the woman makes more too.

Just find someone good. Red flags are so obvious these days that it isn’t as hard as people make it.

 

[Simba1711]

If you hire an advisor just make sure fiduciary and flat fee. Not a percentage of assets.

This is really well said.

My wife and I take a similar approach. 10 years out of residency. NW is up 4M from the day we finished residency. About to pay off our mortgage in a few months and will be debt free at that point.

Nothing novel about our investments. Our residence is worth about 900k which we will soon own outright. Otherwise the balance of our NW is 120k in paid off cars and the rest in a mix of 401k/CBP/Roth/HSA/529/brokerage accounts. Basically all in total stock market index funds. I don’t have an advisor and don’t plan to moving forward.

I also don’t make that much $ compared to a lot of people here. We max out pretax options, pay our bills each month and the balance goes in our brokerage account. It varies from year to year, but these days we invest about 350-400k across accounts per year.

How are you guys saving 350-400k a year

 

[aneftp]

The old “live your life in fear of your spouse every day” strategy 😉

Young people should put their energy into finding other good people. My married friends have been at it for 10-15 years with their spouses and the benefit to them and their kids has been worth far more than the money they could’ve had otherwise. Most cases spouse earns equally or the woman makes more too.

Just find someone good. Red flags are so obvious these days that it isn’t as hard as people make it.

Well. There is this lady radiologist who has to stop working cause she was making more than her orthopedic surgeon husband. Daughter is elite juniors tennis player.

I just saw them a few months ago at their home. Always touchy feeling. Posting love notes etc.

She told me she’s gotta work in private practice less now cause he’s working at the VA also their to slow down since last year. It’s a race to who can work less and make less!

So he’s not sure if he planned it this way or the marriage wasn’t working. It’s like a 300k salary difference and his current salary is below 400k.

 

[narcotics999]

Stay single. Plus no kids.

Even if you do get married. Prenup plus give your mom or dad all ur income to lessen any potential child support. That will cover everything.

Your mom and daddy will not spend your $$$? What if they divorce and get a hottie?

No child support for your own kids?

 

[aneftp]

Your mom and daddy will not spend your $$$? What if they divorce and get a hottie?

No child support for your own kids?

I don’t know. New anesthesia grad who’s 31 is proposing to his 27 yo gf in Italy and gonna to funnel his income to his parents who live in Europe.

He’s said he got it from this soccer star who did the same thing. Apparently it’s legal.

He’s got more schemes than me. So I’m not the one coming up with all these crazy ideas.

 

[SRYSPAC]

I know most of those in this group keep things simple. Index funds, treasury bills maybe a rental property, small crypto, etc.

For those of you who have multiple different types of assets, real estate, REITs/syndicates, etc…do you have an advisor of any kind?

I’m at a bit of a crossroads financially, have LOTS of options, and am curious how some of you all handled the transition attending life of all debt paid off but seemingly unlimited options to take the next steps.

If all is your debt is paid off and it is generally recognized that an "advisor" will not beat the market, look into hedge funds, or buy some Berkshire Hathaway stock.

WTF

You have "lots of options" and no debt; you won't find the kind of information you're looking for on an online forum. Seriously WTF.

 

[Shimmy8]

I have plenty of friends in and out of medicine who invest in REITs, real estate syndicates, private equity opportunities, short term rentals, and a million other things as well as index funds.

Sure, I could index fund away everything I have. But thede are plenty of financial professionals who have unique ideas and opportunities that regular folks don’t have access to. I’m not talking about an “advisor” who just picks stocks and index funds.

Blade provided some useful info about his advisor. Others here participate in real estate syndicates. There are lots of unique opportunities out there, just curious what other folks do.

Chill TF out. Seriously.

 

[aneftp]

I have plenty of friends in and out of medicine who invest in REITs, real estate syndicates, private equity opportunities, short term rentals, and a million other things as well as index funds.

Sure, I could index fund away everything I have. But thede are plenty of financial professionals who have unique ideas and opportunities that regular folks don’t have access to. I’m not talking about an “advisor” who just picks stocks and index funds.

Blade provided some useful info about his advisor. Others here participate in real estate syndicates. There are lots of unique opportunities out there, just curious what other folks do.

Chill TF out. Seriously.

The etf index way 99% of anesthesiologists can retire by age 45 if no kids

The other investments are risky but can generate massive wealth by even an earlier age

 

[ChiDO]

I've been DIY up until this year. Been mostly index funds and still am. Have added RE investments yearly now. Have 7 figures of investment into our practice.

I decided to get help managing my portfolio as it's value has increased dramatically from market gains and investments. Probably don't need it, but at this rate, I'll be creating generational wealth.

 

[abolt18]

I’m also 7-8 years out. Student loans paid off. Two short term rentals. Lots of passive losses. 401k/IRA/HSA more than enough for my age.

I can easily just index it away. Been reading WCI as well for a long time, which has served me very well. I just feel like there is opportunity to continue my passive index fund investment, but at the same time explore other opportunities.

Very first world problem, I know. Was just curious what others in similar situations have done.

I don't think you're wrong to want to do other things. I was just emphasizing that it's 100% not needed. No criticism if you want to pursue other ventures to diversify. It was more an invitation to consider why you feel the need to do more.

And I do agree that every layer of complexity increases the likelihood that you'd benefit from an advisor to at least run things past.

 

[sevoflurane]

I know most of those in this group keep things simple. Index funds, treasury bills maybe a rental property, small crypto, etc.

For those of you who have multiple different types of assets, real estate, REITs/syndicates, etc…do you have an advisor of any kind?

I’m at a bit of a crossroads financially, have LOTS of options, and am curious how some of you all handled the transition attending life of all debt paid off but seemingly unlimited options to take the next steps.

Good question.

1). Learning how to invest is something that is NOT optional if you want to be savvy. You HAVE to learn it, and when you do it, it is not as daunting. FA are def. a resource as you take on this aspect of your life. During the early years they can keep you out of trouble.
2). Over the life of an account and especially as you grow your net worth, financial advisors will be a significant cost to your retirement.
3). Hiring a FA on an hourly basis is a good move. I'd rather shell out 500/hr rather than paying 50k per year in post tax dollars.
4). The most important times that a FA is worth their money is: A). Starting a balanced portfolio and B). Preparing and engaging retirement.
5). I am sure there are some good ones out there, but time and time again, it has been shown that using an advisor and paying a monthly/yearly fee doesn't outperform the market.
6). Nobody knows the market... when it will crash, when it will bounce, when it will do this or that. Trying to play that game is a fools game. Markets can be at all time highs one day and 2 days later be 20% down.

My 2 cents.

 

[sevoflurane]

Tax efficiency as well.

This is huge. Do not overlook this aspect. Tax gain/loss harvesting, negative returns on RE investment (building), etc, etc.

 

[sevoflurane]

Make sure you know your tax brackets. As you wind down your career and during retirement I personally want to drop my tax brackets in both income and long term capital gains. Work smarter... not harder.

I've made plenty of mistakes along the way, but have learned a little bit as well.

 

[okayplayer]

How are you guys saving 350-400k a year

Household income is around 750k-800k W2. Spend around 150-200k per year (with no mortgage or other debt). No state income tax. Generous employer contributions on wife’s side help.

2024 contributions:

Me:
403b: $23,000
401a: $4,000
Solo 401k: $20,000
Backdoor Roth: $7,000

Spouse:
401k: $23,000
Defined Contribution Plan: $26,000
CBP: $20,000
Retiree Medical: $4,600
HSA: $8,300
Backdoor Roth: $7,000

Both:
Brokerage contributions: $280,000

2024 total investments: $420,000

 

[pgg]

He’s got more schemes than me. So I’m not the one coming up with all these crazy ideas.

You might be the only one who thinks they're good ideas though. 😉

Distrusting your spouse to the point of hiding money? What a way to live.

If the relationship goes south just quietly bury her in a swamp like all the other clever psychopaths do.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Household income is around 750k-800k W2. Spend around 150-200k per year (with no mortgage or other debt). No state income tax. Generous employer contributions on wife’s side help.

2024 contributions:

Me:
403b: $23,000
401a: $4,000
Solo 401k: $20,000
Backdoor Roth: $7,000

Spouse:
401k: $23,000
Defined Contribution Plan: $26,000
CBP: $20,000
Retiree Medical: $4,600
HSA: $8,300
Backdoor Roth: $7,000

Both:
Brokerage contributions: $280,000

2024 total investments: $420,000

Why wuch a small amount in the cash benefit plan?

 

[okayplayer]

Why wuch a small amount in the cash benefit plan?

Employer paid. No option for employee to put their own $ in.

 

[dmk5n]

Bogleheads forum is good resource as well.

 

[ucsfgaspain]

Bogleheads forum is good resource as well.

Three fund portfolio FTW!