Personal Statement. Risky

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Find something else to talk about... Religion can be a highly sensitive topic to people. You're playing with fire like you would be if you delve into topics like politics. Find a different approach to why you want to be a doctor.

Like everyone has said. Getting into med school is a game. Play it safe. Remember a large number of interviewers are NOT MD's but PhD's and a enormously large percentage of them are athiests. Athiests do not like having religion thrown in their face. I had a poor friend get grilled about religion at Duke just cause he was from a Christian university.
 
50Fly said:
My risky PS was about my recovery from a terminal illness. Why is that risky? Well, my illness is one that mainstream physicians are taught there is no treatment and no recovery. So the risk, in my opinion was threefold:

First, they could believe that I was never diagnosed with this illness and was making it up.

Second, they could think that I really did have this illness and was potentially too ill to warrant the resouces of a medical education. Or,

Third, the treatment that I undertook was unconvential/off label/not mainstream and therefore challenging core beliefs of allopathic medicine.

One of my interviewers actually told me that I could not possibly have had this illness because no one ever recovers from it. My personal situation is in direct conflict with what I will be taught in medical school.
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Sounds like a winner, at least as a PS. Sorry you had/have to deal with the added burden of illness, but best of luck and thanks for answering.
 
Gust said:
(Advisor 2 talks to colleagues/professors that are involved in pre med process and they all said that I cant communicate effectivly and that they would reject me immediately after reading my letter. Advisor 2 also thought that mentioning God/Faith was offensive)
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It's impossible for me to tell whether the issue was:
1. Advisor 2 is offended by any PS referencing God/Faith.
2. Advisor 2 is offended by how you wrote about God/Faith.
2. Some combination of the above.

There are people out there who would fit #1 in my list, and that may be the case with your Advisor 2... however the comment that you can't communicate effectively is what makes me believe that you really ran into #2 or #3. I tend to believe that the majority of areligious/atheist advisors out there would be comfortable enough with a PS that did discuss God/Faith as long as it was very carefully written.

Your PS must answer the "Why Medicine?", but this is the mistake I've seen strongly religious people when writing their PS:

So, Why Medicine?
1. I love Jesus so much!
2. I think Jesus wants me to be a doctor!
3. ?
4. Acceptance!

My advise to you is to recruit several atheist readers to read your PS and give you feedback on you're going way over the top on the Godtalk. If you can get the majority of them to agree "Well, I still wish you didn't need to talk about your God/Faith stuff, however this is well written and I can respect your viewpoint."
Gust said:
I feel if I trash my paper, then I'm being dishonest with myself.
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Don't set yourself up with a false dichotomy here, where one option means talking about your faith in God in your personal statement and the other option is being a coward about your belief system. They are not the same.
Lilliput said:
-Talk about abstract idea and tie it to my values
-eventually I tie values to why I want to go into med.
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This is very good advice.

fishbait63 said:
Just to add I mentioned Buddhism in my essay which is obviously just as risky if not more.
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I consider myself religiously agnostic but philosophically Buddhist in the Zen tradition, which does not necessarily encompass the religious aspects of other branches of Buddhism. I actually referenced Buddhist concepts throughout my personal statement and various essays, but in a somewhat covert way. Someone who has studied Buddhism would be likely to get the references (e.g. "striving to be mindful") whereas a Christian (who may find Buddhism offensive) would probably just think I was being philosophical. 🙂
 
I'm a strong believer in my faith, but the reasons you provide may be unsubstantial in the eyes of the advisers. An overly-emphasized and strong reason based upon one course of action is probably not a good way to go. This applies to everyone as well.
 
Pretending to be advisor #2...

There are religious affiliate medical/health professional associations at most schools, so that's not a major issue. I would rather see that you have worked with people from other religions and faiths (like chaplains in all hospitals), that you can have plausible, rational conversations with peers and patients, and that you know how to face conflicting views when weighing a decision based on your scientific, community, legal, and individual beliefs. I want you to show me some experiences how your religious beliefs are used to strengthen your resolve to be a physician, and not about preaching to others or deciding on treatments to your patients and caregivers... which to me would be offensive to many, not to mention medically and ethically questionable.

As I ask many people who so strongly identify themselves in their religious culture, I ask, "then why didn't you get a religion degree? Many people I know think that as a preacher (or other similar role) you'll do a lot more good than physicians."
 
OP, I feel like the rule of thumb with personal statements is to show, not tell why you want to go to med school. Examples:

Telling = "Medicine is about caring for one's neighbor and protecting the weak. These values tie into my religious beliefs. I believe medicine is a higher calling for me. My faith is the reason I want to go to medical school."

Showing = "Through my church, I became more and more involved with community outreach. At a homeless shelter I met a man who was dying of COPD but did not have the insurance to get the care he needed. As I heard his story, I realized that my calling is medicine. My faith teaches me to care for others and protect the less fortunate, and I believe that I can best achieve that by helping people like that man."

You see, there are ways to show how your faith influenced your life path without pounding your reader over the head with it. It's okay to say that your faith led you to the path to becoming a doctor, but you're getting onto thin ice if (1) you suggest that your faith is the PRIMARY reason you want to become a doctor (e.g. "God came to me in a dream") or (2) suggest that you're going to base your future practices on your religious beliefs (e.g. "the bible says abortion is wrong"). I don't think you're saying either of those things. Just be sure your PS isn't about your religion. It's about why you want to be a doctor.
 
What if your whole adcom is atheist? A very high number of scientists are atheists.

As an atheist, I'd either cringe or tune out reading about God. Even if I was religious, what if I don't agree with your particular notion of God guiding you into medicine, for example?

This is risky as all get out, my friend. Definitely get some secular/atheists to read your PS as someone already suggested. Or, apply to Texas where that PhD lives who likes to ask people about "how do you give a dying man hope if he's about to die?"
 
rhesuspieces said:
OP, I feel like the rule of thumb with personal statements is to show, not tell why you want to go to med school. Examples:

Telling = "Medicine is about caring for one's neighbor and protecting the weak. These values tie into my religious beliefs. I believe medicine is a higher calling for me. My faith is the reason I want to go to medical school."

Showing = "Through my church, I became more and more involved with community outreach. At a homeless shelter I met a man who was dying of COPD but did not have the insurance to get the care he needed. As I heard his story, I realized that my calling is medicine. My faith teaches me to care for others and protect the less fortunate, and I believe that I can best achieve that by helping people like that man."

You see, there are ways to show how your faith influenced your life path without pounding your reader over the head with it. It's okay to say that your faith led you to the path to becoming a doctor, but you're getting onto thin ice if (1) you suggest that your faith is the PRIMARY reason you want to become a doctor (e.g. "God came to me in a dream") or (2) suggest that you're going to base your future practices on your religious beliefs (e.g. "the bible says abortion is wrong"). I don't think you're saying either of those things. Just be sure your PS isn't about your religion. It's about why you want to be a doctor.
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I go to one of the Jesuit schools mentioned earlier, for undergrad and have been to presentations with the dean of the med school. They pretty much offered the same advice you said here, because many of the people at my school are into religion and might want to put that in their statements. He basically said don't use the line "God called me to be a doctor" because it comes off like you haven't put any personal thought into it and aren't personally interested in, it's just your duty or something like that. If you believe "God called me to be a doctor", you still need to show how you know you should go into medicine and why it is the best fit for you. In short, it seems like they are more amenable to religious statements than secular schools but still expect you to have a well-written statement that goes into your personal reasons for medicine, not an abstract idea of this is what you have to do which you don't back up.
 
kcin said:
The entire medical school admissions process is a game. You jump through hoops until they let you in. Why throw a wild card out at the very end of the process? Play it safe. Do you not have any secular reasons for applying to medical school? Omission isn't being dishonest.

PS. Advisor 2 is an idiot for thinking that god/faith are offensive. Advisor 2 is a scum bag.
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Why is it that the religious people are always the most militant/combative? If you don't like Advisor 2, why don't you try forgiving him. I rarely see atheists making such vitriolic comments.
 
integralx2 said:
Advisor #2 obviously didn't get into med school, so he/she takes it out on people. Advisors are fools. Take there word for a grain of salt. The ones I dealt with if its not in a book they dont know crap.
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Why call someone a fool when you yourself don't know the difference between the words "there" and "their?"
 
CaptainSSO said:
I rarely see atheists making such vitriolic comments.
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You either don't spend much time on internet fora, or you are a complete and utter liar. In the 20 years that I've been on the internet (yes, really) I have yet to see a single thread in which faith is mentioned, Christianity in particular, which didn't have several posts commenting on the idiocy of any believer who dared post.
 
rhesuspieces said:
OP, I feel like the rule of thumb with personal statements is to show, not tell why you want to go to med school.
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^This little monkey = smart.

Adcoms will be deciphering your motivations from the activities you report in you application more than any philosophy you include in your PS.

Your EC's are the "actions speak louder than words" portion of your argument for why they should accept you.

If you care about helping people, have EC's that prove it. Avoid writing "I want to help people" in your PS. First of all, it is the most tired of all premed cliches. Second, it should be obvious based on your actions...if it isn't they won't believe you. If it is, they already know about it and don't need to re-read it in your PS.

Same thing goes for any religious and/or value-based motivations. If you care about service, integrity, (insert value here), talk about activities that back it up.

If you are going to bring up religion specifically, I would only do it in an interview (presumably at a religious institution: Creighton, SLU, Loyola, Georgetown, RUSH Presbyterian, etc.) AFTER:

  1. You have spent enough time with your interviewer to have a good read on whether or not it will offend that individual.
  2. The topic comes up organically in discussion, and is relevant to a point you are making about why you will be a good med student and doctor.
I would advise against throwing it out there for every potential PS reader, as some will definitely not like it.

This is not disingenuous. It's conservative.
 
although it's important to mention what you believe in and what led you to the profession, but in trying to be unique, this is not so. Think about how many Christian students would tell you that they feel that God is calling them to be a doctor? I'd say 100%, that is not exactly unique, nor is it exactly smart to focus on it in your PS.

I would agree advisor 2 is just out of line for saying it's offensive to mention it, but guess what? that's real life, and there are going to be interviewers that feel exactly the same way. And you might think, well if they reject me based on that, then I was not meant to go there anyway. Think about it, the one person who thinks it's offensive certainly doesn't represent the physician population at the school, I know so many openly Christian Physicians at my school. Med school is no longer a hey I apply to this many schools let me decide where to go; most people are fortunate enough to even have 1 acceptance. Don't be so stuck on the PS that it rejects you in the end for all this hard work you have done thus far.

My suggestion, is to leave this open ended, certainly mention your beliefs, but also leave it open to discussion, that way, if the interview would like to discuss it, you are golden, if not, not a big deal and you won't be rejected for that.

Also agree with Medzealot that I am assuming you will have a lot of faith based ECs that people will ask about too, a lot! There's another opportunity to speak about your faith. No need to just put all your eggs in one basket (the PS)
 
JKinSC said:
In the 20 years that I've been on the internet (yes, really)
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Al Gore, is that you?

There are offensive people in every shape, size, age, creed, and color.

The best people I know all have one thing in common: they are comfortable with who they are, whether religious or otherwise.

It's the insecure boner-coasters that want to rear up and cram their opinions down your throat, regardless of what those opinions are.
 
medzealot said:
Al Gore, is that you?

There are offensive people in every shape, size, age, creed, and color.

The best people I know all have one thing in common: they are comfortable with who they are, whether religious or otherwise.

It's the insecure boner-coasters that want to rear up and cram their opinions down your throat, regardless of what those opinions are.
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Not Al Gore, just old. And I agree with everything you've written here, just find the claim that one side is more militant than the other laughable.
 
nicolemeooow said:
Emory has religious affiliation w/ the united methodist church, dunno if that counts.
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They do, but it's not really as religious as it sounds. I went to Emory for undergrad. They were the only "religious" school I considered. Honestly, I met some Methodists my first two years when I was at their Oxford campus (original site) but the last two years at main campus, you couldn't tell it was religiously affiliated.
 
lulz at everything; OP: do it to it. I hear a lot here about fitting molds and playing games, but if you really don't want to scrap your PS (IE: you are confident and proud of it) then don't. See what happens.
 
Just my opinion, but the ideas of God and science sort of clash. So, if I were judging someone based on a piece of paper talking only about God, I would wonder what has been going through their head during all the science classes of the past 4 years. I would wonder (if you're referring to the Christian God) how you can possibly reconcile that science with the Bible, etc.
No offense, but I would definitely take it out.
 
OP, remember (like other have said) that you are playing a game with medical school admissions, and nobody ever wins games by taking risks. Adcomms want to see conservative personal statements.

Also, remember that you are making an application for medical school, not some sort of personal essay about why you personally chose to go to medical school.

Finally, remember that many people find religious people condescending, even when they are not trying to be. That's why whenever I meet people I immediately explain to them that I am an atheist and don't believe wizards and hobbits.
 
BenjaminT said:
OP, remember (like other have said) that you are playing a game with medical school admissions, and nobody ever wins games by taking risks. Adcomms want to see conservative personal statements.

Also, remember that you are making an application for medical school, not some sort of personal essay about why you personally chose to go to medical school.

Finally, remember that many people find religious people condescending, even when they are not trying to be. That's why whenever I meet people I immediately explain to them that I am an atheist and don't believe wizards and hobbits.
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Oic - post was meant sarcastically.
 
hcj said:
Just my opinion, but the ideas of God and science sort of clash. So, if I were judging someone based on a piece of paper talking only about God, I would wonder what has been going through their head during all the science classes of the past 4 years. I would wonder (if you're referring to the Christian God) how you can possibly reconcile that science with the Bible, etc.
No offense, but I would definitely take it out.
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hmm I think you'd have to learn more about the Christian God and science to make that statement
 
osumc2014 said:
what you don't think so?
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As much as I think God calls Christian plumbers to be plumbers. I'm sure some people feel called to do it, but I wouldn't say 100%.
 
I was ballsy and used a curse word in one of my secondaries.... All of my interviewers loved the essay.

With that being said, dont be ballsy. It is a roll of the dice on whether or not they will love or hate it. Plus most scientists are somewhat atheistic in their views.
 
BenjaminT said:
OP, remember (like other have said) that you are playing a game with medical school admissions, and nobody ever wins games by taking risks.
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you must suck at games
 
BenjaminT said:
Also, remember that you are making an application for medical school, not some sort of personal essay about why you personally chose to go to medical school.
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I know what you're trying to say, it just didn't come out very well. Are you by any chance a member of this club?

honor_societies.png
 
kedrin said:
I was ballsy and used a curse word in one of my secondaries.... All of my interviewers loved the essay.

With that being said, dont be ballsy. It is a roll of the dice on whether or not they will love or hate it. Plus most scientists are somewhat atheistic in their views.
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I don't from scientists but most adcom members are physicians. I know a fair number of physicans who are among "the faithful" of their respective religous traditions (Christians, Jews, Muslims).

I have seen successful applications that have made a point of a calling to repair the world, being of service to the poor and sick, of using talents(memory, intelligence, steady nerves) given by God in service to society.

Depending on how it is done, it may not be as "risky" as some perceive it to be.
 
Talking about god/faith in absolutes to people is actually offensive believe it or not. I haven't read your essay but if you do this I am not surprised that advisor 2 called it offensive. Just imagine for a moment, put your faith aside and imagine how completely ridiculous it will sound to anyone who doesn't share your views. Some people make the mistake of thinking that god is a symbol for universal goodness to the world around them. Now, 2 out of the 3 advisors trashed it so go back to the drawing board for christ's sake!
 
kcin said:
PS. Advisor 2 is an idiot for thinking that god/faith are offensive. Advisor 2 is a scum bag.
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Considering how the Christian religion's central thesis is "believe or be tortured forever", I have a hard time seeing how anyone could have a hard time finding it offensive. We find the actions of other evil, violent dictators offensive and sickening but we don't defend them.
 
OnTheOtherHand said:
Considering how the Christian religion's central thesis is "believe or be tortured forever", I have a hard time seeing how anyone could have a hard time finding it offensive. We find the actions of other evil, violent dictators offensive and sickening but we don't defend them.
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It's easy for you to declare the central thesis of Christianity. Believe it or not, not everyone who calls themselves a Christian believes the same things.
 
goldenwest said:
It's easy for you to declare the central thesis of Christianity. Believe it or not, not everyone who calls themselves a Christian believes the same things.
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I am an ex-christian and I used to be in seminary before I learned it's all a con. ^_^
 
OnTheOtherHand said:
I am an ex-christian and I used to be in seminary before I learned it's all a con. ^_^
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There are certainly Christian cons. There are certainly scientists who skew data for profit.
 
I think you should write about Jesus and make your essay religious. Be true to yourself!!!!









































































Then when you get rejected because of the essay it will be hard proof your God doesn't give a damn about you.
 
SilverBvllet said:
I think you should write about Jesus and make your essay religious. Be true to yourself!!!! Then when you get rejected because of the essay it will be hard proof your God doesn't give a damn about you.
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Done, and didn't get rejected. I had terrible numbers, but out of the 8 schools I applied to I got 5 interviews and 2 pre-match acceptances. I'm not complaining. I don't expect to convince anyone on here of anything, but co-exist. You're probably the first person to scream tolerance when one of your beliefs or life choices is challenged.
 
goldenwest said:
Done, and didn't get rejected. I had terrible numbers, but out of the 8 schools I applied to I got 5 interviews and 2 pre-match acceptances. I'm not complaining. I don't expect to convince anyone on here of anything, but co-exist. You're probably the first person to scream tolerance when one of your beliefs or life choices is challenged.
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I don't mind having my belief's challenged, and especially when my beliefs do not jive with reality I'm pretty happy if someone tells me. This is what psychiatrists do all the time. Yes, let's co-exist with all the schizophrenics. By the way, your co-existence stance is hardly the stance taken by the church when science was in its fledgling years. Double standards...but back to a disjointed reality.

Religion is like that you know? You believe something there is no proof of, something that doesn't mesh with reality. Let's see some examples of cause/effect if you believe things that don't jive with reality.

If you believe your car can fly, you might drive it off a bridge and drown.

"Well that's ridiculous. Nobody's dumb enough to do that" you say. Ok how about his one:

If you believe hocus pocus can cure AIDS, you might not see a doctor about it and go on spreading it.

Still, you say "nobody's going to do that when it really comes down to it." So how about this one:

If you believe 259 virgins are waiting for you after you die, you might fly a plane into a building.

I am trying to help the OP here. You got lucky if you were accepted and wrote about religion. Congratulations. But religion/politics should be kept out of a PS.
 
SilverBvllet said:
I don't mind having my belief's challenged, and especially when my beliefs do not jive with reality I'm pretty happy if someone tells me. This is what psychiatrists do all the time. Yes, let's co-exist with all the schizophrenics. By the way, your co-existence stance is hardly the stance taken by the church when science was in its fledgling years. Double standards...but back to a disjointed reality.

Religion is like that you know? You believe something there is no proof of, something that doesn't mesh with reality. Let's see some examples of cause/effect if you believe things that don't jive with reality.

If you believe your car can fly, you might drive it off a bridge and drown.

"Well that's ridiculous. Nobody's dumb enough to do that" you say. Ok how about his one:

If you believe hocus pocus can cure AIDS, you might not see a doctor about it and go on spreading it.

Still, you say "nobody's going to do that when it really comes down to it." So how about this one:

If you believe 259 virgins are waiting for you after you die, you might fly a plane into a building.

I am trying to help the OP here. You got lucky if you were accepted and wrote about religion. Congratulations. But religion/politics should be kept out of a PS.
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There's a lot of animosity here. I'm not trying to provoke any of that. How come the moment I claim that I am a Christian it is assumed that I agree with everything Christianity/supposed Christians do? Your point is basically to throw out religion all together because it's obviously caused some atrocities. Besides that viewpoint being entirely unconstitutional, how can you measure the balance between religion's good and bad influences on our culture? Yes, there are nut jobs out there. There are people who have committed atrocities in the name of science as well. The difference is that you assume that these people are just nut jobs whereas with religion you broadcast poor decisions upon the entire system. If all religious people are "schizophrenics".... you know what... it's not worth it. This thread was destined to suck. </thread>
 
goldenwest said:
There's a lot of animosity here. I'm not trying to provoke any of that. How come the moment I claim that I am a Christian it is assumed that I agree with everything Christianity/supposed Christians do? Your point is basically to throw out religion all together because it's obviously caused some atrocities. Besides that viewpoint being entirely unconstitutional, how can you measure the balance between religion's good and bad influences on our culture? Yes, there are nut jobs out there. There are people who have committed atrocities in the name of science as well. The difference is that you assume that these people are just nut jobs whereas with religion you broadcast poor decisions upon the entire system. If all religious people are "schizophrenics".... you know what... it's not worth it. This thread was destined to suck. </thread>
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Yo dude it was a joke lol. Don't take it so seriously, I'm just mocking all the haters.:luck:
 
goldenwest said:
There are certainly Christian cons. There are certainly scientists who skew data for profit.
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Yes, but science has merit - what merit does Christianity have that cannot be achieved by purely secular means?
 
SilverBvllet said:
I don't mind having my belief's challenged, and especially when my beliefs do not jive with reality I'm pretty happy if someone tells me. This is what psychiatrists do all the time. Yes, let's co-exist with all the schizophrenics. By the way, your co-existence stance is hardly the stance taken by the church when science was in its fledgling years. Double standards...but back to a disjointed reality.

Religion is like that you know? You believe something there is no proof of, something that doesn't mesh with reality. Let's see some examples of cause/effect if you believe things that don't jive with reality.

If you believe your car can fly, you might drive it off a bridge and drown.

"Well that's ridiculous. Nobody's dumb enough to do that" you say. Ok how about his one:

If you believe hocus pocus can cure AIDS, you might not see a doctor about it and go on spreading it.

Still, you say "nobody's going to do that when it really comes down to it." So how about this one:

If you believe 259 virgins are waiting for you after you die, you might fly a plane into a building.

I am trying to help the OP here. You got lucky if you were accepted and wrote about religion. Congratulations. But religion/politics should be kept out of a PS.
Click to expand...

That is by far the most gross oversimplification of a major historical event I have ever seen. EVER.
 
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