Perspective Hours?

[mwsapphire]

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Hi everyone,
I know so many people ask this, but I want to know how it would work in my situation.
I've been volunteering at a nursing home since summer 2017, and have gotten about 170 hours. This summer, I an going there for 6 hours a week, and should accrue at least 50 more hours.
However, I'll likely submit my primary by the end of June. Should I list the 40 ish extra hours I would get over July and Aug as perspective? Or put it under completed? The reason I ask is sometimes when you really ARE going to do something, and are doing it, some people would say that can go under completed. I normally do a lot of volunteer work during the summer- but summer 2018 was an exception because we visited my home country.
I want my service hours to be listed as 400 total ( between this and another volunteer position) , so it does matter that I list them.
On mobile, excuse formatting/typos.

 

[deleted889094]

Not to be that guy, but it's "prospective"

I entered the prospective hours with my completed hours and just put the end date when I expected to be done with the activity

 

[907914]

Not to be that guy, but it's "prospective"

I entered the prospective hours with my completed hours and just put the end date when I expected to be done with the activity

I only did prospective hours for things I knew I was going to continue until matriculation (Work, research type stuff). I think it looses credibility if it is something that you have started recently.

 

[mwsapphire]

Not to be that guy, but it's "prospective"

I entered the prospective hours with my completed hours and just put the end date when I expected to be done with the activity

Oh haha. I see what you mean I think I misspelled and it autocorrected.
I plan on doing just that, so they can see Im completing hours over this summer, but havent completed them yet . Something like Aug 2017-Aug 2019 so it's obviously done during July/Aug 2019. Im frustrated bc if I had the chance to volunteer last summer I would already have more hours but vacation was amazing.

I only did prospective hours for things I knew I was going to continue until matriculation (Work, research type stuff). I think it looses credibility if it is something that you have started recently.

I didn't start recently. I've been volunteering at the nursing home since Aug 2017. I just started "summer hours" ( more than i do during the semester) now. But its along term activity where I already got lots of hours, and thats why I think I can out July/Aug hours under "completed."
Maybe I should ask @gonnif .

 

[Dr panda]

So you are saying that you think it is perfectly fine to report hours completed that you have yet to do? In other words, on your first professional medical document you are planning to knowingly and intentionally lie? Does that seem ethical? I mean if I asked a 5 year old if it was ok to say I did something that didnt happen yet, what do you think they would say? And the reason you are "frustrated" with not having hours last summer is you did what? you went on vacation instead, a decision fully under your own control. This is like a child who spent money on candy and now is upset that they dont have it saved in their piggy bank

Of course this is not ok!!! This reasoning is ludicrous and does not sound like a mature college graduate (or soon to be), much less a prospective physician. Put the projected hours as such

Do adcoms really take into consideration projected hours or they much more care about already completed hours?

 

[mwsapphire]

So you are saying that you think it is perfectly fine to report hours completed that you have yet to do? In other words, on your first professional medical document you are planning to knowingly and intentionally lie? Does that seem ethical? I mean if I asked a 5 year old if it was ok to say I did something that didnt happen yet, what do you think they would say? And the reason you are "frustrated" with not having hours last summer is you did what? you went on vacation instead, a decision fully under your own control. This is like a child who spent money on candy and now is upset that they dont have it saved in their piggy bank

Of course this is not ok!!! This reasoning is ludicrous and does not sound like a mature college graduate (or soon to be), much less a prospective physician. Put the projected hours as such

Does it make sense to put in a whole perspective hours chunk for two months of volunteer work and like 40 hours? Like make a whole entry under perspective hours for that, one an activity where I already have 170 hours?
I mean I can. It just felt silly.
Well , I didn't think it's lying if you do enter the "end" date as Aug 2019, so it can be infered that you meant to finish those hours in July and Aug. I will do what you say but I wasn't planning on being totally dishonest. Just to make my point.

 

[mwsapphire]

Do adcoms really take into consideration projected hours or they much more care about already completed hours?

That was my concern.
I like to think its a halfway point-if its a few more hours on an activity where you already have a lot of hours, then it counts.
If you're starting something new then it doesn't count.

 

[AnMDtoB]

So you are saying that you think it is perfectly fine to report hours completed that you have yet to do? In other words, on your first professional medical document you are planning to knowingly and intentionally lie?

STRAIGHT out of the AMCAS applicant guide - they clearly within their right to do exactly this

"Enter the total number of hours that you completed (****or expect to complete*****) for the experience during the date range you indicated."

 

[AnMDtoB]

to quote @gonnif from a different thread on projected hours, "If you have a good application and you are adding to a solid record, it will be taken as more likely. If you have weak hours and applying based on projected, I look at a candidate as rushing, not ready, just cramming it in."

Given the quote above, perhaps Gonnif misunderstood OP here?

He may have been talking about the OP categorizing the hours as completed or not - if they haven't done them yet, then I would absolutely agree that they should be categorized as prospective hours rather than completed (...because I mean they haven't actually been completed and saying anything else is simply untrue), but they clearly are allowed to list them as total hours on AMCAS according to their guide .

But, like you said, if someone has 0 shadowing experience and "plans" to do 500 hours the summer they apply then an adcom wouldn't be amused.

Frankly, imho I don't think 50 hours either way is likely to make a difference

 

[mwsapphire]

STRAIGHT out of the AMCAS applicant guide - they clearly within their right to do exactly this

"Enter the total number of hours that you completed (****or expect to complete*****) for the experience during the date range you indicated."

Thank you! If the guide says I can do it, then I will. I will be sure to put the dates as Jun2017-Aug 2019 to be sure.
Now I wonder if ACOMAS is the same...will pull up that guide when I get home.

to quote @gonnif from a different thread on projected hours, "If you have a good application and you are adding to a solid record, it will be taken as more likely. If you have weak hours and applying based on projected, I look at a candidate as rushing, not ready, just cramming it in."

Given the quote above, perhaps Gonnif misunderstood OP here?

It may be that he still thinks I should put them under perspective, not completed, but that they will be taken seriously.

 

[AnMDtoB]

Thank you! If the guide says I can do it, then I will. I will be sure to put the dates as Jun2017-Aug 2019 to be sure.
Now I wonder if ACOMAS is the same...will pull up that guide when I get home.

It may be that he still thinks I should put them under perspective, not completed, but that they will be taken seriously.

Given that it sounds like the add'l hours are relatively on pace with the hours you've accumulated earlier, I don't think an adcom would be likely to question your commitment to completing the hours you've listed as prospective. GL!

 

[Dr panda]

Also, I can't find the exact post, but I remember someone said that nursing homes are in a gray area in terms of clinical experience, I might be wrong, but maybe you should also consider to do something else (hospice, free clinic, etc)

 

[mwsapphire]

Also, I can't find the exact post, but I remember someone said that nursing homes are in a gray area in terms of clinical experience, I might be wrong, but maybe you should also consider to do something else (hospice, free clinic, etc)

I already have hospital experience, and am listing the hospice experience as non-clinical.

 

[Goro]

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Do adcoms really take into consideration projected hours or they much more care about already completed hours?

That was my concern.
I like to think its a halfway point-if its a few more hours on an activity where you already have a lot of hours, then it counts.
If you're starting something new then it doesn't count.

Words are easy. Doing is harder.

I already have hospital experience, and am listing the hospice experience as non-clinical.

Hospice IS clinical! And highly admirable too.

 

[mwsapphire]

[



Words are easy. Doing is harder.


Hospice IS clinical! And highly admirable too.

But I think I'll list it like the user above said
Nursing home Aug 2017-Aug 2019 ( not June 2019) 220 hrs, AMCAS manual says I can do that, and if I have the correct dates its not lying.
Now, ACOMAS doesnt have instructions that are as comprehensive, but I dont see anything saying we cant do that, so I think I'll just list it that way.
According to the wise @LizzyM, hospice isn't always clinical. Volunteering in activities isn't the same type of clinical as actually being around docs and nurses and patients. Another user said they did the same thing as me and listed it NON clinical. LizzyM said that its better to list as non clinical when in doubt, rather than passing off what can be seen as mere community service as clinical, because that could hurt me. ( I could "bitch slapped" at a potential interview). Both are equally valuable, and i already have adequate clinical hours, so I'm fine listing it as NC.

 

[Goro]

But I think I'll list it like the user above said
Nursing home Aug 2017-Aug 2019 ( not June 2019) 220 hrs, AMCAS manual says I can do that, and if I have the correct dates its not lying.
Now, ACOMAS doesnt have instructions that are as comprehensive, but I dont see anything saying we cant do that, so I think I'll just list it that way.
According to the wise @LizzyM, hospice isn't always clinical. Volunteering in activities isn't the same type of clinical as actually being around docs and nurses and patients. Another user said they did the same thing as me and listed it NON clinical. LizzyM said that its better to list as non clinical when in doubt, rather than passing off what can be seen as mere community service as clinical, because that could hurt me. ( I could "bitch slapped" at a potential interview). Both are equally valuable, and i already have adequate clinical hours, so I'm fine listing it as NC.

You're fine!!

 

[peanuttbuttah]

Sorry to piggy back the thread, but for all my current activities I just broke them up in two time periods. Start date - 6/2019, 6/2019-projected finish date. So the first timeframe has actual completed hours and second timeframe has projected hours. Is this best practice? I'm just trying to be as explicit as possible.

 

[907914]

Sorry to piggy back the thread, but for all my current activities I just broke them up in two time periods. Start date - 6/2019, 6/2019-projected finish date. So the first timeframe has actual completed hours and second timeframe has projected hours. Is this best practice? I'm just trying to be as explicit as possible.

That is the correct and more acceptable way to do it.