Pet Peeve

[MoosePilot]

Why does everyone think that with studying, they're going to get a 35? If that was the case, a 35 wouldn't be very competitive.

If you're asking what your chances are and you haven't taken the MCAT, please don't assume you'll get a 35+ unless you also got around a 1500 on the SAT. Take a diagnostic test and then you'll know the neighborhood you're looking at. If the average is in the high 20s, then that should tell you something.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

Why does everyone think that with studying, they're going to get a 35? If that was the case, a 35 wouldn't be very competitive.

If you're asking what your chances are and you haven't taken the MCAT, please don't assume you'll get a 35+ unless you also got around a 1500 on the SAT. Take a diagnostic test and then you'll know the neighborhood you're looking at. If the average is in the high 20s, then that should tell you something.

right i agree. I also loved when people took SATs, they'd say "I got 1250 but I'm retaking and will get 1520"...like how could you possibly know or expect that? It's now the same thing with the MCAT.

 

[HistoRocks]

Why does everyone think that with studying, they're going to get a 35? If that was the case, a 35 wouldn't be very competitive.

If you're asking what your chances are and you haven't taken the MCAT, please don't assume you'll get a 35+ unless you also got around a 1500 on the SAT. Take a diagnostic test and then you'll know the neighborhood you're looking at. If the average is in the high 20s, then that should tell you something.

Don't forget, some of us were sleepwalking in HS... when it comes to awareness, uni is like a fresh of breath air! More than anything else, I would attribute it to wholly different schedules. For me at least, HS began at 7 am... 5 days a week... didn't get home till 4 or 5 pm (clubs, travel time, etc.) some days. Long labs are indeed a pain in uni, but at least its not within the time-frame of 7 am - 4 pm, Monday through Friday! It really does make a diff that you can choose your schedule, in particular the time component. Plus in uni, one doesn't have to put with the routine, mundane, homework assignments.... day after day after day. So much easier to get that lab over with and be homework free until the next week. I honestly think this does have a major impact on any standardized test you take during your junior & senior yrs, whether its HS or uni. I feel so much more motivated to study for the MCAT than the SAT.

 

[Shrike]

Since this is nerds on the net, I wanted to give the biomolecular argument against the "innateness" of talents. (& therefore, defeat negativity, elitism, & defeatism)
Nobleist Eric Kandel & other Nuero types have elucidated molecular basis for the plasicity of the human brain. The key player is the NMDA receptor. Unlike most receptors that are either ligand OR voltage gated the NMDA receptor is both ligand & voltage gated. Therefore, the activation of surrounding nueron or the rapid firing of the same neuron will qualitatively change the effects of the release of neuro transmittor.
One of these effects is the activation of transcription factors leading to the growth of new neural connections. The heavy use of neurons literaly leads to the rewiring of the brain.
So Practice, Practice, Study & more Practice leads to higher scores by rewiring the brain.
OK talent still exists. The kid who got 1600 on the SATs can also practice etc. but there is a biological basis for the importance of perseverance.

You have established that rewiring can happen -- not that it does, how much it does, how fast it happens, or how this might be connected with any mental ability including testtaking prowess. You certainly have not approached an answer to how much a testaker's innate (at the time of either the test, or commencement of preparation therefor) ability affects a score on a generalized test, or a specific test such as the MCAT, in absolute terms or relative to other factors such as studying.

But overreaching a bit isn't such a bad thing -- it raises the level of discussion well above that to which it had fallen. Thanks.

 

[Shrike]

As per Moose and Shrike,

Shrike, if you aren't applying to med school, why are you worried about what other people think of the test and about getting so high? Do you feel you have something to prove?

To most of Guju's argument, I have either little idea how to respond, or think it best not to. But this needs addressing.

I am worried about it because it's my job, and because I care. I make my living helping people do well on the MCAT, along with a few other tests. I don't make a good living, though, and it would be a miserable use of a reasonably good education if I didn't get satisfaction from helping people achieve their goals. It would be reasonable from this to conclude that I do get such satisfaction, and that happens to be true.

That's why I'm on here. I like to help. I post on here mostly to be helpful (though it's also kinda fun, mostly). I posted on this thread in order to to try to help people realize that a lot of their expectations are unreasonable, sometimes so unreasonable that they form the basis for bad decisions. Some disagree with me; that's fine when we can figure out what they're saying. But it is just silly to question my motives as if impugning them helps undermine my data or disprove my theses.

Oh, yes: something to prove? Always, I suppose, but I sure don't prove it by posting on a message board where a grand total of two people know who I am in the flesh. Not by taking the MCAT either, by the way.

Shrike
TPR physics, verbal, bio

 

[willthatsall]

Shrike, this guy is an idiot, right? It's not just me? Has he said a single thing that makes you think he might not be an idiot?

 

[Lindyhopper]

You have established that rewiring can happen -- not that it does, how much it does, how fast it happens. . . You certainly have not approached . . .

OK so maybe a couple of graduate credits & one lab rotation doesn't make me a giant of neural science.
As a practical matter clearly aptitude & talents do exists. Hell, I seem totally incapable of rewiring my mind to give me the ability to draw. Also much of the research on the NMDA receptor was done in apes. So clearly, there is still something akin to an upper limit to an individual's cognitive abilities.
But it still seems to me that the MCAT is a test that one can effectively prepare for by learning a lot of science. If you really understand Orgo, physics, & chem I don't see why someone of moderate test taking abilities can not excel.
I was also wondering what the TPR's or other informed opinion was about the bio passages. It seems that there are a limited number of likely topics. If one is familiar with many of the topics and is well versed with the language of biologists one should have a huge advantage. I think that was the case for myself getting a 12 BS despite only cursory & dated organic knowledge, but sufficiently broad knowledge of biology so as to be pretty familiar with every tested passage.

Finally, to avoid confusion remember neurons are generally incapable of mitosis and, therefore, the "rewiring" discussed has to do with the outgrowth of processes from existing cells.

 

[willthatsall]

Rewiring hasn't really been proven at any significant level in humans. It certainly occurs in children, but the chance of someone becoming noticeably more intelligent as an adult is essentially non-existent. You can learn all sorts of new things, but that doesn't mean you will become better at processing information or thinking. Someone who is a total idiot (not mentioning any names), no matter how much he studies, is not going to ace the MCAT by rewiring his brain and learning about science.

 

[nonito]

I have to say that I also was under the impression that the curve of the mcat depended on how well/bad students did on the exam and I had more than one person say that to me. I guess I didnot second guess it because I thought about it like we usually think about it in college courses... the teacher does not come with a curve before the exam for that particular exam he/she is giving

I actually went ahead and asked the question about the curves to statisticians. From what they said ,the curve is not set before you take the exam. It is set by the examinee at the time of the exam ( so I guess Guru ... may be right in this) now to normalize the curve they ( stats guys) compare and make adjustments with previous curves from previous years. So actually it doesnot make sense that it (the curve) will be set before you came in into the test. Maybe I didnot get what you are saying willthatsall but were you really talking about curve being set before you take the test? if yes... it's my understanding they do not and can not get set... the curve can only be normalized to the previous years curves... If no.. never mind

if any one can also ask knowledge people about this curve thing... it will be nice

good day

 

[Lindyhopper]

As a practical matter, I would agree that there seems to be some "innate" levels of abilities, talents, & aptitudes. Now, I don't have any particular agenda. And have in fact always tested well. Nor do I think someone with a history of low test scores can rewire their way to a 35 on the MCAT. But in the interest of science.

Rewiring hasn't really been proven at any significant level in humans.

Consider the words of Noble Laureate Eric Kandel
" . . .learning produces structural and functional changes in specific nerve cells. In mammals, and especially in humans, in whom each functional component is represented by hundreds of thousand nerve cells, learning is likely to lead to alterations in many nerve cells and is therefore likely to be reflected in changes in the pattern of interconnections of the various sensory & motor system involved in a particular learning task. . . . The most detailed evidence has come from studies on the somatic sensory system. . .
Thus in ADULT HUMANS the cortical maps for somatic sensations are dynamic, not static. Functional connections can expand and retract. . ."

To be fair this probably has little short term impact on how one should prepare for the MCAT. The evidence that Kandel offers centers on perception, as well as, consolidation of "higher" associative learning into what use to called "muscle memory" but is now thought to neural plasticity.

 

[willthatsall]

I have to say that I also was under the impression that the curve of the mcat depended on how well/bad students did on the exam and I had more than one person say that to me. I guess I didnot second guess it because I thought about it like we usually think about it in college courses... the teacher does not come with a curve before the exam for that particular exam he/she is giving

I actually went ahead and asked the question about the curves to statisticians. From what they said ,the curve is not set before you take the exam. It is set by the examinee at the time of the exam ( so I guess Guru ... may be right in this) now to normalize the curve they ( stats guys) compare and make adjustments with previous curves from previous years. So actually it doesnot make sense that it (the curve) will be set before you came in into the test. Maybe I didnot get what you are saying willthatsall but were you really talking about curve being set before you take the test? if yes... it's my understanding they do not and can not get set... the curve can only be normalized to the previous years curves... If no.. never mind

if any one can also ask knowledge people about this curve thing... it will be nice

good day

Some people asked the staff at the AAMC board a while back and they gave an explanation without going into all the details that basically, a certain score should represent a constant knowledge level in any administration. Here's why I don't think the curve is set after the test depending on the other people you take the exam with: If that was the case, the average score would always be the same and there would be no variation from year to year or Spring to Fall. If the curve depended only on the people you took the MCAT with, then the August MCAT would not have a lower average score than the April MCAT. They would set the average to 24 for both administrations and the people who took the test in April would suffer for taking the test against a better test taking population. But that isn't the case; the average score in April is almost a full point higher than the average score in August. And the scores, especially for BS, have been rising over the years.

 

[willthatsall]

As per SAT/ACT correlation, well you can say whatever you want but you know what, the two tests are graded in a totally different manner and one is based on bell curve while the other is based on a totally different system.

If you were in my homeland, your MCAT score would look pathetic, because where I'm from that test is nothing compared to what they give you.

I was just reading back through these comments for entertainment and started laughing uncontrollably. "...the other is based on a totally different system." And what system is that, exactly? It sounds really complicated and mysterious.

As for the other comment, if my MCAT score would look pathetic, what would yours look like? You would probably be deported for embarrassing your homeland with a 21.

I know you claim to not be responding to this thread any longer, but I could use some entertainment if you feel like clarifying yourself.

 

[QofQuimica]

willthatsall, please stop denigrating gujudoc. She has admitted that she was mistaken, and you do yourself no credit by continuing to flame her.

 

[notdeadyet]

willthatsall, please stop denigrating gujudoc. She has admitted that she was mistaken, and you do yourself no credit by continuing to flame her.

Seconded. Lord...

 

[DrMom]

Closing since this has turned into personal attacks.