Aug 19, 2015
2
0
Status
Resident [Any Field]
Hi,

I am currently a PGY-1 Psychiatry resident looking for PGY-2 position in the New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and Maryland area.

I am aware of the the posting site on the APA website, however the website does not appear to update frequently and appears to update fairly late. From reading prior posts, it appears that I have reach out to programs on my own after first informing my program director and that interviews for opening positions typically are from October to December. Can anyone confirm any of that information.

Also is there any other way I can be made aware of opening positions other then through the posting site on the APA website.

Finally, if there is any information on difficulty of getting a position. How many people are typically looking for these positions.

Thanks
 

MacDonaldTriad

5+ Year Member
Mar 13, 2013
2,186
3,369
still on the right side of the dirt
Status
Attending Physician
I’m just thinking in my head about the half a dozen people we have brought into our program mid training in the last quarter of a century. A couple of them were very good, but most were unmitigated disasters. Program directors loath dipping into the pool of disaffected trainees that are running away from their programs “because of how mistreated” they were by their former training. They almost all have a fairly funky story that is never their fault, but they always seem to bring their problems with them. I’m sure there are perfectly reasonable trainees who have completely innocent life events that require a change in geography, but in our experience, these are very outnumbered by itinerate psych residents who have failed to maturate into functional house staff for whatever reason. I know that graduate medical education is criticized for its bias against non-traditional students, but the best source of talent comes from picking the apples right from the tree. Come to think of it, the couple of good transfers where converts from internal medicine, or refugees from combined programs. Very few that have worked out well came from other straight psych programs.

To answer your question, look up the programs that are in the area you need to move to. Contact them by e-mail. Try to individualize the e-mail so it isn’t on a blast to the ten other programs you are considering. Most will not have openings, but keep trying because training directors are often the last to find out when someone is leaving. If you have a legitimate reason for leaving, state it up front and early in your communication. “My spouse’s job is moving…, my parent is ill and I’m an only child…, I really hate the army and my obligation has been fulfilled…, I think things were fine, but the ACGME closed my program and I need a new one…” Our assumption is that you somehow didn’t play well with others if you are leaving a perfectly good program for no obvious reason. Even if you are leaving a “malignant” program, for some reason the other 27 or so residents seem to be staying.

PGY-II positions are probably the easiest. Many programs would rather go short handed than replace a PGY-III, and we are all very used to losing PGY-IVs given fast tracking. There are some programs that have built in PGY-II expansions. Good luck,
 
OP
R
Aug 19, 2015
2
0
Status
Resident [Any Field]
Thanks for your reply. Two follow up questions.

1. Is it appropriate to contact programs without first indicating to my own program director that I want to leave?
2. If not Is there a way of knowing that programs have open positions without actually contacting them?
3. Is it okay to be non-specific when describing your reason you want to leave. For example, could I say something generic like "family issues." Is that acceptable enough or something more specific like "I am moving closer to a potential spouse" an acceptable reason to move? Just to make the clear, I am very satisfied with my current program, however there are certain circumstances that are requiring that I move away.
4. If the transfer move fail, or I do not find a program that I like to transfer to make it worth moving away from my own program, how does that influence my status in my current program.

Thanks for your response.
 

MacDonaldTriad

5+ Year Member
Mar 13, 2013
2,186
3,369
still on the right side of the dirt
Status
Attending Physician
Telling you program director that you are thinking of leaving will change the dynamics of your relationship and this step shouldn’t be taken lightly. Some program directors will maturely understand and even be helpful in your decision, but some can be vindictive and view this as personal. Only you can comment on the nature of your program’s likely response.


  1. I don’t know if there is complete agreement on the ethics of asking around before telling your training director, but I do know almost everyone does this. Why say anything if there is nothing out there? I have had training directors call me looking for a soft landing for one of their trainees who has to move here so sometimes disclosure can be a good thing.

  1. I really don’t know any way to discover open positions without asking. If you know a psychiatry training director who isn’t your training director, they might be able to ask on a list serve. Preferably this person would have to be someone who wouldn’t feel compelled to talk to your current training director.

  1. I think you can be non-specific when you ask, but in the interview process, the specifics will be important. If it seems you are moving just because you feel like it, you might feel like it again. (By the way, don’t ever split your training 3 ways, it will buy you an extra year almost for sure).

  1. That is why people are hesitant to tell their training directors. In an ideal world, nothing would change, in the worst setting, they non-renew your contract and find someone they like better.
 
May 24, 2015
114
10
Status
DO/PhD Student
Telling you program director that you are thinking of leaving will change the dynamics of your relationship and this step shouldn’t be taken lightly. Some program directors will maturely understand and even be helpful in your decision, but some can be vindictive and view this as personal. Only you can comment on the nature of your program’s likely response.


  1. I don’t know if there is complete agreement on the ethics of asking around before telling your training director, but I do know almost everyone does this. Why say anything if there is nothing out there? I have had training directors call me looking for a soft landing for one of their trainees who has to move here so sometimes disclosure can be a good thing.

  1. I really don’t know any way to discover open positions without asking. If you know a psychiatry training director who isn’t your training director, they might be able to ask on a list serve. Preferably this person would have to be someone who wouldn’t feel compelled to talk to your current training director.

  1. I think you can be non-specific when you ask, but in the interview process, the specifics will be important. If it seems you are moving just because you feel like it, you might feel like it again. (By the way, don’t ever split your training 3 ways, it will buy you an extra year almost for sure).

  1. That is why people are hesitant to tell their training directors. In an ideal world, nothing would change, in the worst setting, they non-renew your contract and find someone they like better.
I feel like my program director is just aching to get rid of me based on my interactions with him. However, the chair is quite different, she does not want me to leave. She has been quite helpful and nice, I was wondering if you guys would recommend talking about my abusive interactions with the co-residents/senior residents thus far with the chair? In hopes that it would change the dynamic of things.

I wanted to go ahead and do the ERAS application for year 2, but I stopped because a). it's a pain in the ass as now I have to find my LOR writer and ask them to put things in manually. Plus b). I don't have the liberty of taking as much vacation time as I had in the past for interviews.

I know that it's frowned upon to transfer but I am literally going insane in this environment, new surprises day in and day out. The communication in the place is awful.
 
Jun 7, 2013
123
53
Status
Resident [Any Field]
Tread very carefully. Worst case scenario is an attack on YOUR character, best case scenario is someone offering an empathic statement/meeting. If you want to chat more PM me.
 

ferning

SDN Lifetime Donor
Lifetime Donor
Jun 22, 2013
184
25
Status
Definately don't use the word "abuse" lightly when making official complaints. Have specific instances that match it or phrase your description more diplomatically
 
May 24, 2015
114
10
Status
DO/PhD Student
Definately don't use the word "abuse" lightly when making official complaints. Have specific instances that match it or phrase your description more diplomatically
It definitely feels like abuse to me. I seriously think I should carry a tape recorder with me to record some of the nasty things that are said amongst faculty and residents in our program.

To give you guys some perspective on how badly I want out of this program. I am willing to tough it out for a year, maybe get a my license, look for a PGY2 spot, if that does not happen, then I plan on not renewing my contract for PGY2 at this current place, working as a GP, then reapplying so that way I can work on some of my debt.

I seriously hate living here and working here! It is emotionally draining and a very hostile working environment where my patience has been tested to the limits. Its very disheartening to hear that just because you have the letters DO after your name and did not take USMLE, you are considered less of a Physician by nurses, medical students and staff. I mean why did you guys even rank me if you were going to mistreat me this way? That's seriously what I go home thinking as I drive in my car.
 
May 24, 2015
114
10
Status
DO/PhD Student
For whatever its worth, thing have started to settle down a bit, this month I am on a lighter rotation. But I still do genuinely want out of this program given my experiences thus far, I just wonder, if my current PD does not give me his 100% support in transferring and does not provide a stellar recommendation, can I still get a spot somewhere?

Thanks
 
Dec 17, 2014
113
27
Status
Medical Student
If someone wasn't a competitive candidate the first time around, but get good evals during intern year, does that count for something in terms of transferring? Or does the entire application get judged the same way again.

Or if one didn't match the first time around, they likely aren't going to be a competitive candidate the second time around no matter how much PD support they get?