Pharm.D And Law

[jrpike]

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Hey guys...Can anyone give me information about getting a pharm.D and JD. Do you know anyone?? What do they do?? Is it easy to get a job?? How much do they make??? etc. Do UF or any other florida schools have a dual enrolement program?? Thanks

 

[DownonthePharm]

My husband told me that he saw an online JD program recently. Theoretically you could do that no matter where you were. You might want to google it.

 

[KUMoose]

Hey guys...Can anyone give me information about getting a pharm.D and JD. Do you know anyone?? What do they do?? Is it easy to get a job?? How much do they make??? etc. Do UF or any other florida schools have a dual enrolement program?? Thanks

There are a few dual enrollment schools, Maryland is one of them, I didn't search/scan any of the Florida schools so I can't help there. It sounded like Maryland basically treated them as two seperate programs for the most part in terms of admissions and then you'd alternate classes (2 years PharmD, 1 year JD, 2 PharmD, 1 JD I *think*).

While there are many options for a PharmD/JD the consensus opinion of the people I talked with is two-fold.
1) Working as an attorney in Pharmaceutical cases. While it's possible to do corporate law with this, the attorneys I talked with almost exclusively said that the demand for this is at the private law office level, so you'd start as a junior associate and have to hump it up the chain (more clients, more hours, more money = associate, etc). Hear you'd work on cases of corporate liability (think Vioxx or Fen-phen) or patent infringement type cases. The upside is if you've visited a court and watched litigation, there's a good possibility that you'd be able to try cases, the downside is patent infringement cases are boring! 😉

2) Working as a lobbyist/legislative liaison in the Pharmaceutical field and working primarily at the federal level. Here you'd help create bills and then rally (or anti-rally) legislative support. You could potentially work for independant lobby groups, APhA, NIH, CDC, etc.

While there isn't a consensus on the classes (spacing them out or taking them stacked) this is largely dependant on where you go. Some schools have online or night classes (UMKC has night JD classes), some schools only offer traditional courses.

While there's a lot of money to be made in law, it's generally not until you get higher up in the practice (Partner, Of-Counsel, etc) or Sr. Attorney in Corporate Law do you see salaries far in excess of retail pharmacy. For example the Sr Attorneys in the patents group (closest applicable group) at my company make between 120-140k/yr, the VP makes around 140 plus bonus (roughly 1/3 his salary). The salaries for the retail pharmacists are around 90kish, pharmacy managers around 110k.

 

[marylandpharm]

sr attorneys only make 140k? thats it?

what the heck.

...someone told me that you can make aruond 200k with a pharmD/JD.

wouldnt it be better then to just go into law and skip pharmacy school all together? the 4 years you would be spending in pharmacy school could instead be used for experience. you'll save a buttload of money and probably even make more than the person who got both degrees by the time the pharmd/jd guy graduates.

anyone agree or disagree about this? (by the way KUmoose, thanks for your post. it may have cleared up some misconceptions for me)

 

[patmcd]

I don't think you get a pharmd/JD for the money, because like you said you could make the same or more with just a JD. I think you do it so you can work in very specific law fields.

 

[KUMoose]

sr attorneys only make 140k? thats it?

what the heck.

...someone told me that you can make aruond 200k with a pharmD/JD.

wouldnt it be better then to just go into law and skip pharmacy school all together? the 4 years you would be spending in pharmacy school could instead be used for experience. you'll save a buttload of money and probably even make more than the person who got both degrees by the time the pharmd/jd guy graduates.

anyone agree or disagree about this? (by the way KUmoose, thanks for your post. it may have cleared up some misconceptions for me)

Senior Associates and Partners (i.e. attorneys at a law firm), can make more (or rather often do make more), however they would be working on a per hour-esque basis. The law firms we deal with, the Sr A$$es get a flat rate per billed hour and then bonuses on case and hours bill and something else. They all make more then our inhouse counsel.

I work in a corporate law group, so the type of work and the salaries are very different. Corporate law is great, because there's little weekend/overtime work and you get paid an insane amount of money. The downside is a limited number of director level and above (executive lite pay).

From my discussions people go into law or pharmacy for different reasons. The people I interviewed (after taking the LSAT) went law (after you striped away the money aspect) because they liked to work puzzles out. Pharmacists like to teach and help. The dual-degreed people I know specialized in one and used the second as a "residency". The M.Ed/PhD.Ed and a JD is a teacher first but also does class/school based lobbying and occasionally casework.

It's very important that you realize two key factors MarylandPharm. 1) I live in Kansas, so salaries here aren't generally as top loaded as on the east coast. 2) I gave the salaries for the intelectual property (IP) corporate attorneys, because I don't have salaries available for PharmD/JD. IP attorneys often get paid differently because of additional tests they have to take, I believe Kansas requires 20 hours of hard sciences and 3 years of work before one is able to take their specialty test and then they need to keep current on technology ( 😕 ).

As an attorney making 200k (or more) isn't a problem if you are driven and talented. However, I tend to think sacraficing goats nd your soul in place of a family isn't worth it.

 

[marylandpharm]

thanks again KUMoose. im finally starting to understand a little bit more. your last comment sparked some curiosity though...

However, I tend to think sacraficing goats nd your soul in place of a family isn't worth it.

...so how many hours do these attorneys work?

one of the biggest reasons why i decided to go into pharmacy was to have a somewhat balanced lifestyle (with family, friends, and work) but still be able to...well....make "enough" money. im sure everyone here wants this to some degree or another.

 

[jfitzpat]

thanks again KUMoose. im finally starting to understand a little bit more. your last comment sparked some curiosity though...



...so how many hours do these attorneys work?

one of the biggest reasons why i decided to go into pharmacy was to have a somewhat balanced lifestyle (with family, friends, and work) but still be able to...well....make "enough" money. im sure everyone here wants this to some degree or another.

The career track for an attorney is slower developing than for health care fields. The bigger firms in large cities will start at around 125K. This will involve working at least 60 hours a week and more often than not closer to 80. Most senior associates (6-8 years) are probably pushing 200K+. The real money is in partnership or having your own firm. The high end of legal salaries is very high indeed (some plaintiffs attorneys and partners at large firms make well into seven figures), but it is a long time coming.

The other thing to keep in mind is that the numbers above are for the best paying firms. MOST people do not go to work for these firms. As directly opposed to Pharmacy, the demand for attorneys is outstripped by the supply. It is not uncommon for people to spend more than a year just trying to land their first job. My personal opinion is that you should decide which you would rather do and pursue it. A PharmD is not going to give you a big enough advantage as an attorney to justify the time and monetary committment. I would guess the same would be true for an attorney looking to become a Pharmacist.

 

[fidelio]

So how many years does it take to do a pharmd/jd on average? Do any of the California schools have this type of program? Or is it mostly on the East side?

 

[patmcd]

I think that the average is ~7. Most combined degree programs save you ~1 year.

 

[RyanRyan]

So how many years does it take to do a pharmd/jd on average? Do any of the California schools have this type of program? Or is it mostly on the East side?

USC has one, here's more information

http://www.usc.edu/schools/pharmacy/pharmd/programs/dual/juris.html

 

[NittanyLion302]

Not only do USC and Maryland have them, but Buffalo, Drake, and UFlorida do as well

 

[1908PharmD]

that's craziness if you ask me. How can you possibly have time to do that? a PharmD. and Law or PharmD and MD (i can kind of see that one)

 

[yazzman]

After pharmacy school, I might pick up my JD...I think it gives you more options.....

 

[Farmercyst]

that's craziness if you ask me. How can you possibly have time to do that? a PharmD. and Law or PharmD and MD (i can kind of see that one)

They try to squeeze the coursework in wherever they can. I know the PharmD/MBA only requires one extra year. I think the PharmD/MPH and PharmD/MS RegSci are done over the summers so you aren't delayed. (I'd have to double check that.)

As for what they do, Dean Weissman is a PharmD/JD and, well, he's the Assistant Dean at USC SOP, he also wrote the California Law book we use in our Pharmacy Law course. Not sure how much they pay school admin, but I'm sure it's decent money.

 

[bwsalvas]

Hey guys...Can anyone give me information about getting a pharm.D and JD. Do you know anyone?? What do they do?? Is it easy to get a job?? How much do they make??? etc. Do UF or any other florida schools have a dual enrolement program?? Thanks

UB offers a pharmD/JD for a total of 6yrs of grad school...its a deal...not for me though. I think roughly 1 student per year decides to do it...maybe less.

Seems to me the career possibilities would be endless

 

[bwsalvas]

After pharmacy school, I might pick up my JD...I think it gives you more options.....

just gonna pick up a JD huh?? sounds easy.

 

[UTplease]

The thing to remember about law school is that everyone is placed in a normal distribution curve. The top 3% or so of graduates go on to make a lot of money(6 figures starting). The rest start off making around 45k a year and work from there. Also, a reading and research are a huge part of being an attorney. You won't get to go all Jack McCoy on the world, and you'll be working a ton of hours. It's another one of those professions you don't go into unless you really want to.

 

[teclhie]

just gonna pick up a JD huh?? sounds easy.

Pick up a PHd and MD while your at it.....that'll really make your title look mean.

 

[CrazyFox]

sr attorneys only make 140k? thats it?

what the heck.

Not necessarily. I know that in the place that I work at (small IP law firm) the guy who has been out of the law school for 2 years makes 200 k.But again it may be different somewhere else.... oh yeah, forgot to add he just has some kind of bachelor's.