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Pharmacist and Software engineer

Discussion in 'Pharmacy' started by OHPharm, Jun 13, 2008.

  1. OHPharm

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    For pharmacist who has software engineer background, any suggestions of what might be a good job match and can use both skills?
    Thanks!
     
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  3. Aznfarmerboi

    Aznfarmerboi Senior Member
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    Pharmacy informatics is definitely the best choice out there.

    Pharmacy informatics, also referred to as pharmacoinformatics, is the application of computers to the storage, retrieval and analysis of drug and prescription information. Pharmacy informaticists work with pharmacy information management systems that help the pharmacist make excellent decisions about patient drug therapies with respect to, medical insurance records, drug interactions, as well as prescription and patient information.

    Pharmacy informatics is the study of interactions between people, their work processes and engineered systems within health care with a focus on pharmaceutical care and improved patient safety.

    Pharmacy informatics can be thought of as a sub-domain of the larger professional discipline of health informatics. Some definitions of pharmacy informatics reflect this relationship to health informatics. For example, the Health Information Management Systems Society (HIMSS) defines pharmacy informatics as, "the scientific field that focuses on medication-related data and knowledge within the continuum of healthcare systems - including its acquisition, storage, analysis, use and dissemination - in the delivery of optimal medication-related patient care and health outcomes"

    History and Trends in Pharmacy Informatics
    The application of computerized information technology to pharmacy practice, including highly specialized software and hardware, is not new. In fact, the term pharmacy informatics is much newer than the domain it specifies. Pharmacists, computer scientists and other specialists brought the first generation of pharmacy-specific computer technology to retail and hospital pharmacies in the 1970s through the 1990s.

    A present, major trend in pharmacy informatics is to move from pharmacy-specific systems to larger, fully-integrated information systems that include pharmacy functions as a component of larger clinical information systems, retail prescription management systems and drug supply chain management systems. Another major trend is the accelerating technology diffusion of computerized provider order entry (CPOE) for medication orders in hospitals and electronic prescribing (e-Prescribing) of prescriptions sent via networks from physician offices to retail pharmacies.

    Pharmacy informatics professional activity has been growing demonstrably over the past several years. For example, the American Society of Health-System Pharmacists (ASHP) created a new organizational section in 2006, the Section on Pharmacy Informatics and Technology (SOPIT), that is expressly, "dedicated to improving health outcomes through the use and integration of data, information, knowledge, technology, and automation in the medication-use process." Also, the American Medical Informatics Association (AMIA, [1]) has created a pharmacoinformatics working group to, "promote interaction among AMIA members who are interested in the intersection of technology and medication management."

    As a profession, pharmacy practice encompasses many different practice venues including retail, community pharmacy, hospital pharmacy practice, long-term care, mail-order and others. This diversity of pharmacy practices is reflected by a like diversity of stakeholder groups interested in pharmacy informatics and the automation of the drug supply chain. One group, the American Society of Automation in Pharmacy (ASAP, [2]) is notable for its retail-oriented mission, "to assist its members in advancing the application of computer technology in the pharmacist's role as caregiver and in the efficient operation and management of a pharmacy."

    In the academic sphere, as of July 1, 2007, pharmacy informatics is a required component of professional pharmacy degree programs. The latest standards from the Accreditation Council for Pharmacy Education ([3]) require colleges of pharmacy to address pharmacy informatics within their curricula. ACPE expects Doctor of Pharmacy graduates to be familiar with informatics terminology, justifications for systemic processing of data and the consequences, both advantageous and undesirable, of using technological information and communication innovations in healthcare.

    Pharmacy informatics practitioners put their energies toward creating standardized, high-reliability workflows developed through an integral approach that aligns the physical-chemical characteristics of drug products, pharmacy staff needs and requirements, work process expectations and outputs, and available information, machine and robotics technologies. The practice of pharmacy informatics also may involve drug information analysis, project management, customer and vendor relations, communications, system administration, technical troubleshooting, computer programming, contracting and business leadership.


    [edit] Future of Pharmacy Informatics
    Pharmacy informatics will likely continue to grow in its scope and importance for some time. When, in 1999, the Institute of Medicine (IOM) published the report To Err is Human, the pharmacy community was at once called out for allowing unsafe medication management practices to preponderate and called upon to dramatically improve the safety of medication use in the United States. The Institute for Safe Medication Practices (ISMP, [4]), a leading patient safety organization, is well positioned to advance medication safety efforts. ISMP continues to focus on pharmacy informatics and patient information management as key areas of both promise and concern, promise that the application of new information technologies will improve patient safety and concern that the diffusion, adoption and best-practice use of medication management technologies is happening too slowly. Time will tell if pharmacy informatics, as an area of applied information sciences and as a sub-discipline of health informatics, will indeed positively transform medication use so that patients benefit from improved safety and efficacy with respect to the medications they require.
     
  4. tootoo30

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    That's what I plan on doing with my BS in Computer Science and a Pharm D.
     
  5. OHPharm

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    Aznfarmerboi,
    Wow! Thanks so much for your great information!!!

    That's exactly what I am looking for, I am en lighted by this information as I was kind of puzzled of what to do next. Although it might be hard to find a pharmacy informatics job at midwest, I will give it a try and see if I can make it...

    Thanks again!

     
  6. tussionex

    tussionex Pharmacist
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    i am an informatics pharmacist...having any kind of software degree AND a pharmacy degree will make you very valuable to CIO's....go for it!

    it's a lot of fun.....can be boring sometimes and can be really hairy when things crash!

    best of luck.....feel free to PM me if you would like some more info!
    :)
     
  7. jpharm445

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    I'm also interested in informatics... I wonder if I'll be able to get started without a degree in a computer related field? Programming has been a long time hobby of mine, and I think I'd fit right in without an official degree. If I am lacking in an area, I'm confident that I'd be able to learn on the fly.

    tussionex, can you elaborate a bit on what you do? Do you program, or advise on design, or both? Thanks!
     
  8. tussionex

    tussionex Pharmacist
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    right now, i do a lot of maintenance.....charge files, the formulary database, updates to the pharmacy systems (E-mar, Pyxis, Pharmacy information system)...i do interface testing between systems....design reports and queries....
    soon, i will be working on building a new system (we're switching systems) and getting ready for CPOE.
    i don't have a programming background at all...i'm a certified DBA (databases are like pharmacology in my mind) and understand some HL7 enough to walk the walk.
     
  9. loo

    loo Always Sleepy
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    Hmmm. Please develop a super-duper Windows-based, paperless computer system and sell it to CVS.

    Then retire a rich man/woman knowing that you have made the lives of CVS retail pharmacists much easier.
     
  10. tussionex

    tussionex Pharmacist
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    forget windows.....go linux.....

    vista, anyone?
     
  11. loo

    loo Always Sleepy
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    Agreed on linux.

    Vista has little gremlins that drive me nuts. Somebody didn't do their homework...
     
  12. OHPharm

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    For those of you who are already doing Pharmacoinformatics jobs, can you recommend some groups that people interested in this area can benefit? AMIA charge about fee for membership and sounds like subscription to their journal will cost additional. Any free groups that is good also? Thanks!
     
  13. tussionex

    tussionex Pharmacist
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    AMIA is expensive. HIMSS also has lots of info, listserves etc. and there is an informatics sub-group in ASHP
     
  14. dgroulx

    dgroulx Night Pharmacist
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    I have 25 years in IT, a PharmD, and 1 year of experience. I interviewed for an informatics job at a Tampa hospital. They told me that I would still need to do a 1 year residency in informatics before they would hire me. So, you may want to look at residencies. They are posted on the ashp? website.
     
  15. whyteout

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    Wow I had no idea this was even out there.. Guess you really do learn something new everyday. I hate being the one to ask this, but...anyone have any salary info? :D
     
  16. Aznfarmerboi

    Aznfarmerboi Senior Member
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    Salary varies depending on who you work for but the setting is usually nice including the luxury of 1 hour lunch breaks for most places.
     
  17. OHPharm

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    Wow, some place really have a high standard...25 years at IT still needs residency...may be there are some smaller scale hospitals does not require residency? Residency does not pay well...
     
  18. OHPharm

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    That made me thinking of going back to pure IT world and be pharmacist just as a backup...
     
  19. tussionex

    tussionex Pharmacist
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    some place obviously takes itself too seriously.
     
  20. dgroulx

    dgroulx Night Pharmacist
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    You are considered a clinical pharmacist in the hospital, so the pay would be equivalent.
     
  21. iphetamine

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    I am not planning on getting a degree in IT, but have good skills with php and mysql, is that enough to get a job like that?

    I want to be a bit different from the regular pharmacists that graduate every year, am I in the right direction?
     
  22. OHPharm

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    For those who are already IT phamacist, any certification program that you suggest? Thanks!
     
  23. tussionex

    tussionex Pharmacist
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    learn SQL and/or HL7. those will be most useful
     
  24. starsweet

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    What type of settings are these jobs in?
     
  25. OHPharm

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    From what I heard, most hospitals have this kind of positions.

    Question to those who are doing this PharmayInformatics:

    Small hospital or large hospital is good for a starter who qualifies?

    Thanks!

     
  26. v482599

    v482599 Junior Member
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    Hi Tussionex

    hope all is fine with you. I am third year at howard school of pharmacy and i have a bachelors in computer science. I am interested in the pharmacoinformatic residency

    where did u do ur residency
    what is the salary range after residency
    where can i work after my residency

    i was told i need to do a one year general residency and then the PGy2 or work for two years and then apply to the residency which is the option i am about to follow

    what do u advise

    thanks

    Jenka'a
     
  27. tussionex

    tussionex Pharmacist
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    i didnt do a residency. in fact, if you search my posts, i'm pretty anti-residency.

    i didnt NOT do an informatics residency for that reason. my job just kind of found me. there was really no one else at my hospital besides the director who had enough computer skills to start running the pharmacy systems and he didnt have the time (obviously).

    so, i started gradually doing more and more to help with pharmacy systems and take things off of my director's hands. when we installed pyxis, i was the logical choice. now, we are planning on implementation new systems (and upgrading the old) and here i am!

    for those in school, sure, think about residency, but there arent that many out there. get involved in some systems activities on rotations (be helpful to your preceptors). for those of you with no computer background, get some IT cred, take some certification exams, etc.

    good luck.
    if anyone else has some questions, please post and/or PM me. i will try to get together a FAQ like the nuclear pharmacy one.
     
  28. iphetamine

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    when you say "IT background", do you mean it has to be a degree or certificates in the field or could it just be self-taught knowledge?
     
  29. tussionex

    tussionex Pharmacist
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    i'm going to count "background" as either of the above. i'd take a self taught person who is motivated over one who has lots of book smarts but is lazy.

    certifications do matter if you are working in an IT department. everyone is working on one, in one form or another....your network guys, your server guys, web developers, project managers, DBAs, etc...
     
  30. KUMoose

    KUMoose Grumpy old man
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    Luckily Iphet, if you understand SQL (language) moving between mySQL and MS SQL is fairly easy. I had little problem going from MS -> mySQL, except for the database physical tuning.

    Last year when I CVS came in, when I told the lady I had experience in application design, deployment and administration she visibly started drooling, so I don't think you need a residency. If you can talk to the geeks and the pharmacist you can write a healthy ticket.
     
  31. tootoo30

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    When I graduate from pharmacy school (GOD willing), I will have a BS and MS in a computer discpline. I will also have about 10 years exp with some certifications. I don't know SQL or HL7, but I'm a very fast learner. I was considering a residency but most want you to be a PY2, which is a waste of time for me. I'm willing to do a PY1, but don't know about another. After reading the previous post from the pharmacist with 25 years experience, I guess a residency is a must, or get lucky! How should I go about learning SQL any recommendations appreciated :)
     
  32. tussionex

    tussionex Pharmacist
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    what certifications do you have?
     
  33. iphetamine

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    What exactly to you mean app design, deployment and admin??? Do you have any related certifications?
     
  34. KUMoose

    KUMoose Grumpy old man
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    It means for the last 6 years I managed some of the application server farms for the company or built and modified applications. I have a host of windows certs and a few oracle, novell, banyan and linux certs but frankly they were far less important then day-to-day experience managing servers/dbs. While I have done programming a significant portion of my energies were spent between the customer (lawyers) and the day-to-day programmers (did I mention how annoying lawyers can be?) and I did some Application architecture (high level design of the application) so that means I have UML experience.
     
  35. tussionex

    tussionex Pharmacist
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    they really ARE less important than hands-on skills (however, the oracle OCP and OCM require hands-on before you can take the test)

    but, if you are already a pharmacist and transitioning to an IT role, having some certs definately gets your vendors and managers attention as they likely think of you as simply a pill pusher or that you have clinical knowledge only.

    i did the SQL server 2K5 DBA cert, but find that my database knowledge and SQL skills come from working every day with my pharmacy system's database. if you are running a system, you should know your own tables backwards and forwards. get a data dictionary from your vendor, hang it up and dig in.
     
  36. tootoo30

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    My certifications have more to do with the technical side of the field. I have A+, Network+, and MCP. How do you suggest that I proceed from here? Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions, I plan on making Pharmacy Informatics my lifelong career so any advice is appreciated. :)
     
  37. DrJosephKim

    DrJosephKim Advisor
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    There are so many opportunities in public health or medical informatics. Professional side: Electronic health records (EHRs), decision support, algorithms, disease management programs, etc. The other side is the consumer side: personal health records (PHRs) like Google Health, WebMD, etc.
     
  38. KUMoose

    KUMoose Grumpy old man
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    @tootoo-- The single most important thing is to get experience, so do internships, find an informatics position around school and get involved in any local informatics groups.

    When I hired I look for the skills more then the tests, because tests do not, as a rule mean a lot. I've seen alphabets soup people that have no ability to think outside what the book says and I've seen people that haven't taken a single test be the smartest guy in the room.
     
  39. tootoo30

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    I've been looking around New Orleans, but Informatic jobs are few. I have to explain to many individuals in the pharmacy program just what pharmacy informatics professionals do on a daily basis. If you should know of someone in my area, please advise and I will follow up.

    Thanks
     
  40. iphetamine

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    How can the empolyee test for skills if one has no certificates? Ask certain questions in the interview or let him sit on a computer and do something infront of him? :p:oops:
     
  41. rxblitzrx

    rxblitzrx Short-Bus Member
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    I like this topic!

    I'm another Information Systems BS turned PharmD. I did a couple years with SQL and ASP before going back to school. I actually stopped right before .NET came on the scene.

    Anyhoo, we had some Pharmacy Informatics people do a presentation at our school a couple weeks ago. My first thought was that they were speaking DIRECTLY to me, since I always wondered if I could combine all my skills into one job. However, after listening to their presentation and talking with them a little I was instantly reminded of "the corporate world". Not a good thing to me.

    Basically, P.I. felt a little too much like business-professional. "I'll shoot you an email"... "Just wanted to touch base and see where we're at on this"... all the "lingo" that you commonly hear around the business world, not to mention the same work-flow. Me personally, I HATE THAT. That's one of the reasons I left the IT world. I think it can be a good fit for some though.

    Just my two cents, but I think in PI you will be surrounded more by business related stuff than clinical/medical related stuff. So, if you like that, go for it! :thumbup:
     
  42. tootoo30

    tootoo30 Account Closed!
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    If you don't mind me asking, what are your plans when you finish school?
     
  43. KUMoose

    KUMoose Grumpy old man
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    I asked questions and observed the interviewee. The general problem is tests, until you get far, far into a system is like single disease state therapeutics. It's easy, there are no complicating factors. For example, my last hiring was for a DBA, I'd ask how many DBs they managed, the sizes all the technical specs of the databases. Then I ask them how they would change the system if I took the server they ran it on and cut the processing and memory in half and gave it back to them. Paper DBAs would have no clue how to handle that, as a general rule. DBAs working in corporate America laugh because what usually happens is you run 30-100% above capacity on low revenue servers and have to make due. Another good question to ask is to set up a problem and then ask them where'd they go to solve it.

    It's why I said your best bet is to get in as a student into the environment. It is more valuable then any test you'll ever take. It's like pharmacy school, almost no one cares what you got on any single test, except the NAPLEX. If you are really lucky you could find a growing informatics department and get to see them build up. But getting into any informatics department and poking around is going to be the best way to get your foot in the door for life after pharmacy schoo.
     
  44. rxblitzrx

    rxblitzrx Short-Bus Member
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    dunno yet. i actually like retail. i have a great store that's slow paced and a great staff. we all respect each other and have a lot of fun at work. if i can stay there, then i'll be staying in retail making the highest available salary to pharmacist!
     
  45. tussionex

    tussionex Pharmacist
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    i'm hoping you're not calling me a paper DBA.
    i do not directly manage my databases at the level you are speaking of. we have a brilliant gentleman who is has been with the company since before i even started pharmacy school; he is our lead DBA and i don't step on his toes.

    i use my DBA skils to suss out problems so i dont have to bother him or other server staff (we are a small shop and our guys are ALWAYS busy). also, many times, it IS something i can easily do, but because we have very strict access auditing, the "clinical staff" is not granted access to do it (ie, SQLplus, EM console etc)

    or, for example, one thing i get asked by the pharmacy directors and clinical staff, on almost a weekly basis, is to write reports or queries for them to use in QA, antibiotic stewardship, TPN usage, workflow, pharmacist stats, med error reports, etc.....

    knowledge of my databases and the ability to write a query or string together my tables to write a report that non-technical staff (like the AD) can use with the click of a button makes life easier for all of us.
     
  46. tussionex

    tussionex Pharmacist
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    agreed on this point. i got my job by being interested, helpful, and curious.
     
  47. KUMoose

    KUMoose Grumpy old man
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    Absolutely, because you know... I addressed the post to you. I mentioned your name and I stuck my tongue out at you and went 'pthpthpth'. :rolleyes:


    To clarify paper X (paper DBAs, paper MCSE/MCPs) are people who's only real world experience, in their certifications, are in lab settings. The only test I'd consider taking at face value is CCIE (Cisco Certified Internetwork Engineer), i.e. the only one I wouldn't design more comprehensive questions on to determine real world experience. Because it's the equiv. to certification test hazing. It's an 8 hour hands on lab test that costs $1400 to take and at one point had a >50% first-time fail rate. There are probably other exams now I stopped looking. ;)
     
  48. tussionex

    tussionex Pharmacist
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    i think i like you :D
     
  49. KUMoose

    KUMoose Grumpy old man
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    Of course, what's not to like?!? :laugh:
     

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