Pharmacist...And their loans...?

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FreshOffTheBoat

FreshOffTheBoat

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Hey Everyone,

I was reading this article [below] and I have a question regarding it.

http://studentdoctor.net/blog/2007/08/04/twenty-questions-nicholas-blanchard-pharmd-med/


I have noticed that there isn't much talk on the Pharmacy boards about being worried of debt and paying back loans. However, I notice on the Dental boards this matter is frequently discussed.

The man in the article, he has a PharmD, said he paid all his loan within 2 years. Kudos to him. But what I am wondering is, is this realistic today? Today, do newly graduate Pharm students spend numerous years paying off loans? I am sure Dentist and Physicians do. But what about Pharmacist? Do they worry about this and does it take many years to pay back loans?


Thank You.
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FreshOffTheBoat said:
Hey Everyone,

I was reading this article [below] and I have a question regarding it.

http://studentdoctor.net/blog/2007/08/04/twenty-questions-nicholas-blanchard-pharmd-med/


I have noticed that there isn't much talk on the Pharmacy boards about being worried of debt and paying back loans. However, I notice on the Dental boards this matter is frequently discussed.

The man in the article, he has a PharmD, said he paid all his loan within 2 years. Kudos to him. But what I am wondering is, is this realistic today? Today, do newly graduate Pharm students spend numerous years paying off loans? I am sure Dentist and Physicians do. But what about Pharmacist? Do they worry about this and does it take many years to pay back loans?


Thank You.
Click to expand...

Within 2 yrs? Only if his tution is like 10 grand/year, which is most likely not possible. Most pharmacists that i know have around 100+ grand loan debt, and this takes somewhere from 5-10 yrs to be paid off.
 
He has been working for 20 years.......20 years ago, college tuition was peanuts....
 
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yea i was thinking the exact same as you guys. must have been cheaper the cost of attendence...or maybe the pharmd had family to help him or something.

just thought i'd make sure and ask. thanks. :thumbup:
 
A lot of jobs have tuition reimbursement programs, so I'm planning to use one of those to help me kick start paying back loans. Also, any signing bonus I get is going straight to the loan. All in all I'm not too worried about it (and I'll owe ~120k)
 
I was OK with what I estimated my student loans would be by graduation (around $100,000). That was until I calculated the monthly payments over a 10-year period: around $1200/mo. :eek: That's more than my mortgage payment, and I live in a 2500 sq ft house in a damn nice suburb. Yes, I will be making good money so it will not be a problem to pay it; but my standard of living will not improve until I pay those loans off. But my situation is a little different from most--I quit a full-time job to go back to school, have kids, etc.
 
Loan repayment calculator: http://www.finaid.org/calculators/loanpayments.phtml

Enter in your loan amount, enter in how many years you want to pay it off in, and then it displays how much you have to pay each month.

If your loan amount is $100k, it is almost impossible to pay it off in 2 years. This would require payments of $4,468.20 per month. I consider the average starting retail pharmacist will be making $5000 - $6000 per month after taxes (at least out here in the southwest).

If your loan amount is $50k, you would need to pay $2,234.10 per month to pay off your loan in 2 years.
 
SCCpharm said:
Loan repayment calculator: http://www.finaid.org/calculators/loanpayments.phtml

Enter in your loan amount, enter in how many years you want to pay it off in, and then it displays how much you have to pay each month.

If your loan amount is $100k, it is almost impossible to pay it off in 2 years. This would require payments of $4,468.20 per month. I consider the average starting retail pharmacist will be making $5000 - $6000 per month after taxes (at least out here in the southwest).

If your loan amount is $50k, you would need to pay $2,234.10 per month to pay off your loan in 2 years.
Click to expand...

hey. wow. thanks for the link!

....if you live with your parents....maybe one could pay off loans in 2 years...maybe..b/c all they would have to pay is loan and not bills and rent...well, maybe car insurance.....
 
I ended up with $110k in loans. My payments are just under $1,200 per month over 10 years. That's less than 1/2 of one paycheck. No problem.
 
my minimum payments will be ~1700, I will probably throw 2000 at my monstrous debt every month.

That still leaves ~ 4k take home
figure 2k mortgage
and 1k savings

Im going to need to work some OT to stay out of the poor house;)
 
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NormalSaline said:
my minimum payments will be ~1700, I will probably throw 2000 at my monstrous debt every month.

That still leaves ~ 4k take home
figure 2k mortgage
and 1k savings

Im going to need to work some OT to stay out of the poor house;)
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that for a lot of loans, there is a penalty if you pay the money back early (such as when you reconsolidate to get a lower interest). Also remember that paying interests on student loans is tax deductible.
 
Aznfarmerboi said:
Also remember that paying interests on student loans is tax deductible.
Click to expand...

You can claim the deduction if all of the following apply:

  1. You paid interest on a qualified student loan in tax year 2007
  2. Your filing status is not married filing separately
  3. Your modified adjusted gross income is less than $65,000 ($135,000 if filing jointly):mad:
from: http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc456.html
 
Your modified adjusted gross income is less than $65,000 ($135,000 if filing jointly):mad:
Click to expand...


wow, one area of doing your taxes where it pays off (literally) to be married.
 
I borrowed $50,000. Paid off in 10 years. I didn't consolidate it and I recall my first payment was $830.. and the payment amount gradually declined. It was pain in the ass for the first few years. But as my salary grew, it wasn't a big deal.

My first job out of pharmacy school in 1995, my hourly wage was $19.75 per hour. In 2000, it grew to $37.50.
 
amazing replies everyone. thanks for ALL the input. i really appreciate it!!!! :):):):thumbup:




i have a question. kinda sounds silly maybe....


say you have to pay $1700 a month back to pay off loans....if you wanted to can you pay up to a significant amount more? like say one month you pay back $3000..maybe $1700 the next month...maybe $2100 another month simply b/c you feel at the time you can afford to pay off some extra...and maybe it will make the payments go by a little faster?

the reason i ask is b/c i think i heard somehere that even if you won the lottery and wanted to flat out pay all your loans or a significant amount more then the usual that loans people can stop you from doing that an make pay over the extended period of time.....i dunno maybe because then can accumulate more interest money if its spread over longer period of time? am i making sense? hope you understanding what i am saying....sometimes its hard for me to explain things....
 
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FreshOffTheBoat said:
amazing replies everyone. thanks for ALL the input. i really appreciate it!!!! :):):):thumbup:




i have a question. kinda sounds silly maybe....


say you have to pay $1700 a month back to pay off loans....if you wanted to can you pay up to a significant amount more? like say one month you pay back $3000..maybe $1700 the next month...maybe $2100 another month simply b/c you feel at the time you can afford to pay off some extra...and maybe it will make the payments go by a little faster?

the reason i ask is b/c i think i heard somehere that even if you won the lottery and wanted to flat out pay all your loans or a significant amount more then the usual that loans people can stop you from doing that an make pay over the extended period of time.....i dunno maybe because then can accumulate more interest money if its spread over longer period of time? am i making sense? hope you understanding what i am saying....sometimes its hard for me to explain things....
Click to expand...

http://ezinearticles.com/?Paying-Your-Loan-Back-Early&id=333770

No loans can stop you from paying back early by the way. This is America! It is just there are several factors to consider. The earlier you repay back your loan, the more expensive it is as early repayment = usually one to two months of interest and your interest is higher in the beginning during loan repayment. Repaying your loan too late in the game and it works against you because why not just wait out a few months and keep the interest. The cost is almost the same.

+ depending on your interest rate, your other investments might do better if they hit a target return of anything 6 percents and better.
 
Aznfarmerboi said:
http://ezinearticles.com/?Paying-Your-Loan-Back-Early&id=333770

No loans can stop you from paying back early by the way. This is America! It is just there are several factors to consider. The earlier you repay back your loan, the more expensive it is as early repayment = usually one to two months of interest and your interest is higher in the beginning during loan repayment. Repaying your loan too late in the game and it works against you because why not just wait out a few months and keep the interest. The cost is almost the same.

+ depending on your interest rate, your other investments might do better if they hit a target return of anything 6 percents and better.
Click to expand...


great article to answer my question!! thank you!


also a bit off topic...but can you or someone please help me with this other question i have (sorry i am new to pre-pharm....i am tryin to explore pharmacy)... http://drslounge.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=6995362&postcount=1482
 
FreshOffTheBoat said:
amazing replies everyone. thanks for ALL the input. i really appreciate it!!!! :):):):thumbup:




i have a question. kinda sounds silly maybe....


say you have to pay $1700 a month back to pay off loans....if you wanted to can you pay up to a significant amount more? like say one month you pay back $3000..maybe $1700 the next month...maybe $2100 another month simply b/c you feel at the time you can afford to pay off some extra...and maybe it will make the payments go by a little faster?

the reason i ask is b/c i think i heard somehere that even if you won the lottery and wanted to flat out pay all your loans or a significant amount more then the usual that loans people can stop you from doing that an make pay over the extended period of time.....i dunno maybe because then can accumulate more interest money if its spread over longer period of time? am i making sense? hope you understanding what i am saying....sometimes its hard for me to explain things....
Click to expand...

I plan on attacking this issue by putting money away in either a savings account or in stocks. That way while I can still put extra aside for student loans, I will be able to make money off of the money I put aside. So its kind of a nice way to really get the ball rolling. Now while I won't make a significant amount of money this way, every little bit helps and the more money that the bank account holds, the more that interest rate pays back. OR just invest it in stocks, and hope for the best!
 
What is the job market like for graduating pharmacists for '09? How is the market in Southern California? Will I be stuck in the heat in Arizona?
 
Just remember...chances are (well, hopefully at least) many of you will be in domestic partnerships or will be married soon after you graduate. Assuming you're with someone fairly educated, your gross income might be around $175,000 or so and don't forget the savings you get when you do shack up with someone.

Don't worry about this debt...it's going to happen, there's nothing you can do short of dropping out of school to avoid it. Just take it on, set the payments once you graduate, put it into your spreadsheet/Quicken software, and forget it. It'll get paid off, stop staring at it.

DO take time and change what counts...stop buying things you don't need, don't rush into buying a house if you're gonna move in 3 years anyway, and don't buy that porsche when a camry will do. I know wayy too many people who worry about their student loans but won't hesitate to drop $1000 on a LV bag, buy a car they can barely afford that gets 9mpg on premium only, and keep a balance on a credit card that charges 15% interest. Dumb dumb dumb.

Just keep things in perspective...paying off loans and living comfortably aren't mutually exclusive. Living beyond your means is what ultimately gets people in trouble.
 
Jbuprepharm said:
I too will have roughly 120K

which is part of why I, at this point, am set on the armed forces after school
Click to expand...

Uh what branch are you referring to? I was under the impression after speaking to an army recruiter and an air force recruiter that there is almost no benefit to join as a pharmacist. NOW if you join as a podiatrist, i know the army would love you.

Also, as far as dentist's go, I know mine really well and he said he is on year 6 of his loan and he is in no rush. He didn't say what his rate was but he said it was quite low, so he was in no rush.

And yeah, dont blow your money. Dont go buying a 40k car just cause you think you can make the payments right out of school. For the first few years, spend like you are still in school and put the rest away into savings. You may need it one day.
 
PrepharmKID said:
Uh what branch are you referring to? I was under the impression after speaking to an army recruiter and an air force recruiter that there is almost no benefit to join as a pharmacist. NOW if you join as a podiatrist, i know the army would love you.

Also, as far as dentist's go, I know mine really well and he said he is on year 6 of his loan and he is in no rush. He didn't say what his rate was but he said it was quite low, so he was in no rush.

And yeah, dont blow your money. Dont go buying a 40k car just cause you think you can make the payments right out of school. For the first few years, spend like you are still in school and put the rest away into savings. You may need it one day.
Click to expand...


Army: 39k each year for 3yrs student loan repayment with 3 yr AD committment.
 
I believe AF pays for the last two years of school (~$60k if you're @ a private school) and about $2k/mo as an E-7 (another ~$48k while you're in school being a student) which also counts towards your 20 years of service requirement for pension.

And no to debt but yes to officer's wife? See...this is where the backwards deal comes in. You don't make that much in the armed services compared to civi life (but obviously you don't join for money...c'mon), and your wife wouldn't be able to hold a steady career because of the constant moving (hit on the income).

I'm still thinking about it...but that last bit about my wife not being able to hold a steady job might be the issue (sure, she can work at the bank or something...but that's kind of a waste considering her degree/qualifications). We're fine on the AF income and perks, but I don't know.
 
confettiflyer said:
I believe AF pays for the last two years of school (~$60k if you're @ a private school) and about $2k/mo as an E-7 (another ~$48k while you're in school being a student) which also counts towards your 20 years of service requirement for pension.

And no to debt but yes to officer's wife? See...this is where the backwards deal comes in. You don't make that much in the armed services compared to civi life (but obviously you don't join for money...c'mon), and your wife wouldn't be able to hold a steady career because of the constant moving (hit on the income).

I'm still thinking about it...but that last bit about my wife not being able to hold a steady job might be the issue (sure, she can work at the bank or something...but that's kind of a waste considering her degree/qualifications). We're fine on the AF income and perks, but I don't know.
Click to expand...

Depending on her degree/qualifications, she could get a job as a civilian contract employee (CPAs/Consultants etc.) and have a job at whatever base you're stationed on.
 
Tuition in the pharmacy program at the Uinv of Arkansas is 8,000 a year....some state schools are very affordable.
 
Idk where you folks go to school, but Im going to have over 200k in loans with interest after I graduate, which works out to $2000 a month for 10 YEARS! Im banking on finding a company or hospital that will pay for my loans. I've heard that VA hospitals are a good way to go, since many people find them too sad to work in, so they are dying to get pharmacists to work there. I know of someone who signed a 3 year contract with a VA hospital and they forgave all of her student loans. The pay wasn't great, between 75-85k a year but if they are paying all or even most of my loans, where do I sign up?!
 
suprachica79 said:
Idk where you folks go to school, but Im going to have over 200k in loans with interest after I graduate, which works out to $2000 a month for 10 YEARS! Im banking on finding a company or hospital that will pay for my loans. I've heard that VA hospitals are a good way to go, since many people find them too sad to work in, so they are dying to get pharmacists to work there. I know of someone who signed a 3 year contract with a VA hospital and they forgave all of her student loans. The pay wasn't great, between 75-85k a year but if they are paying all or even most of my loans, where do I sign up?!
Click to expand...

yeah my total is going to be around 220 after interest accrues. i hope to pay back in 5 years by continuing to live like a student.. although i wouldnt mind working for the military or indian health services
 
Ross434 said:
yeah my total is going to be around 220 after interest accrues. i hope to pay back in 5 years by continuing to live like a student.. although i wouldnt mind working for the military or indian health services
Click to expand...

Yeah, Im also interested in hearing more about indian health services. I really dont know anything about them, but I keep hearing their name get dropped everywhere on this forum lol. Anyone have some good info about IHS, how they help pay for loans, and career oppurtunities with them?
 
confettiflyer said:
I believe AF pays for the last two years of school (~$60k if you're @ a private school) and about $2k/mo as an E-7 (another ~$48k while you're in school being a student) which also counts towards your 20 years of service requirement for pension.
Click to expand...

That sounds really sweet. How long is the commitment?
 
I don't know exactly for pharmacists, by for physicians the military requires a 7 year commitment I believe. This does not include residency. And they throw you on carriers or submarines or far-off bases as the physician for those outposts after just your internship. Then a lot of times they force you to either do pediatrics, internal medicine, emergency medicine or surgery. So it is very very limited for physicians.

I would imagine that there is more freedom for pharmacists in that they're probably just going to put you on a base somewhere to run that base's pharmacy. So you'd at least be practicing what you want, and not forced to do anything you don't really want to do. I would have definitely thought about it more had I gone to pharmacy school instead of medical school.
 
suprachica79 said:
Yeah, Im also interested in hearing more about indian health services. I really dont know anything about them, but I keep hearing their name get dropped everywhere on this forum lol. Anyone have some good info about IHS, how they help pay for loans, and career opportunities with them?
Click to expand...

If you visit their website, there is lots of good info. You can also request an info packet through the website. Loan repayment info is here:

http://www.pharmacy.ihs.gov/index.cfm?module=loan

One thing to note about loan repayment is that it is not offered at every site. They pay back up to 20,000/yr if you work at a facility that is in high need. The sites will usually be very rural areas. Like white river, az for example.

IHS has some cool benefits and opportunities that you will most likely not find in other settings but it is not for everyone. Browse the website, request some info and after that you feel you are interested, contact a recruiter to answer your questions.
You can always apply for the JRCOSTEP program to get a feel for IHS or contact your clerkship coordinator during your 3rd year and see if they have clerkship opportunities with Public Health Service and makes sure you get one.

The pay is competitive after you factor in benefits, pension and tax advantages. But you have to be in for the long haul to get the full advantage.

This link should answer a lot of questions:

http://www.hhs.gov/pharmacy/pdf/secret1.pdf
 
NormalSaline said:
That sounds really sweet. How long is the commitment?
Click to expand...

You'll want to talk to a special "health sciences" recruiter (not the one in your mall).

BUT, in the spirit of sharing info, from what I've read on SDN, it's either 3 or 4 years. There's an AF recruiter somewhere and he left his contact info. There's also someone who was in the navy for about 6 years. Scholarships might change, so best bet is to talk to a recruiter to get the latest info.
 
Don't forget that many jobs will also offer loan repayment! All of the hospitals I applied to after residency offered at LEAST $10,000/year so I have no worries about paying back my loans.
 
Aznfarmerboi said:
http://ezinearticles.com/?Paying-Your-Loan-Back-Early&id=333770

No loans can stop you from paying back early by the way. This is America! It is just there are several factors to consider. The earlier you repay back your loan, the more expensive it is as early repayment = usually one to two months of interest and your interest is higher in the beginning during loan repayment. Repaying your loan too late in the game and it works against you because why not just wait out a few months and keep the interest. The cost is almost the same.

+ depending on your interest rate, your other investments might do better if they hit a target return of anything 6 percents and better.
Click to expand...

Can you not direct money above the required payment every month to the principal of the loan like you can with a home loan???
 
rxlynn said:
Can you not direct money above the required payment every month to the principal of the loan like you can with a home loan???
Click to expand...

yeah to be honest i think what aznfarmerboi said could be stated a little clearer.

by paying back early, you do minimize the amount of interest you pay. if you pay the loan back in 5 years instead of 20, you are NOT ending up paying for 20 years of interest.

The only advantage to waiting to pay back a loan is if you can achieve an annual rate of return in the markets that is higher than your interest %. If this was true, (and current grad plus loans are at what.. 7% 8%), then the more money you held on to (by minimizing your loan payments), the more money you would make in the markets above and beyond what you would be paying for interest. however, this situation is no longer really applicable, with today's high interest rates and low market returns. Unless something absoutely extraordinary happens, there isnt going to be an annual market growth or stock market return over 3-4% for the coming years.. so waiting to pay back a loan doesnt make much sense.
 
Ross434 said:
yeah to be honest i think what aznfarmerboi said could be stated a little clearer.

by paying back early, you do minimize the amount of interest you pay. if you pay the loan back in 5 years instead of 20, you are NOT ending up paying for 20 years of interest.

The only advantage to waiting to pay back a loan is if you can achieve an annual rate of return in the markets that is higher than your interest %. If this was true, (and current grad plus loans are at what.. 7% 8%), then the more money you held on to (by minimizing your loan payments), the more money you would make in the markets above and beyond what you would be paying for interest. however, this situation is no longer really applicable, with today's high interest rates and low market returns. Unless something absoutely extraordinary happens, there isnt going to be an annual market growth or stock market return over 3-4% for the coming years.. so waiting to pay back a loan doesnt make much sense.
Click to expand...

Yeah...your student loans are pretty much the ABSOLUTE LAST thing you guys want to throw your money at.

You're better off banking any extra money and using that as a down payment on a home. If you can swing a 20-30% down payment, you'll generally have a lower interest rate. Going down 1/2 a percentage on a $300-400k mortgage will yield more significant savings than had you gone on a 90/10 loan and paid off your student loans. Don't forget PMI if you go below 20%.

You should be doing the following with your money:

1) Match w/ your employer in a 401k
2) Build a 6 month liquid account for emergencies
3) Pay off any CC balances whose interest rates are greater than all of your installment loans.
4) Fund a Roth IRA/401k
5) Buy your parents something nice
6) Buy yourself something nice
7) Save for a mortgage down payment if you're looking to buy a house while you're waiting for that magical "2 year" employment mark
8) Then pay down student loans

Yah I missed a few, but get the picture? My favorite proverb: "A fool and his money are soon parted."
 
wait for inflation and then pay it down...
 
fsupharm said:
wait for inflation and then pay it down...
Click to expand...
Wait until the government prints off 1 trillion worth of bailout money coming up soon. The value of the dollar is soon to drop, and you will be paying the same amount back but with much less valuable paper.
 
JeremyE30 said:
Wait until the government prints off 1 trillion worth of bailout money coming up soon. The value of the dollar is soon to drop, and you will be paying the same amount back but with much less valuable paper.
Click to expand...

in a worldwide crisis, the US dollar is going to be the most valuable currency regardless. where else are people going to put their money??
 
Idesiretosling said:
If you visit their website, there is lots of good info. You can also request an info packet through the website. Loan repayment info is here:

http://www.pharmacy.ihs.gov/index.cfm?module=loan

One thing to note about loan repayment is that it is not offered at every site. They pay back up to 20,000/yr if you work at a facility that is in high need. The sites will usually be very rural areas. Like white river, az for example.

IHS has some cool benefits and opportunities that you will most likely not find in other settings but it is not for everyone. Browse the website, request some info and after that you feel you are interested, contact a recruiter to answer your questions.
You can always apply for the JRCOSTEP program to get a feel for IHS or contact your clerkship coordinator during your 3rd year and see if they have clerkship opportunities with Public Health Service and makes sure you get one.

The pay is competitive after you factor in benefits, pension and tax advantages. But you have to be in for the long haul to get the full advantage.

This link should answer a lot of questions:

http://www.hhs.gov/pharmacy/pdf/secret1.pdf
Click to expand...

Thx so much for the info. The take home pay that you get is great because of the reduced taxes and the loan repayment system sounds great but it seems they would never have anything in my area. The only native americans around me are at mohegan sun and foxwoods and I think they are all set lol. Too bad, if I decide to move with my folks, maybe I'll find a job in arizona with them..
 
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