Pharmacist Career Questions

[jonathan03]

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I am considering switching to pharmacy from engineering. I graduated with a degree in engineering and have not been having any luck finding a job after I was laid off 5 months out of college. Pharmacy seems to be much more stable to me. A few questions:

1) How much overtime is required as a pharmacist and is it paid overtime? As an engineer, "salary" means we can make you work as many hours as we want for the same pay. A little overtime is ok, but many times it turned out to be 10-15+ hours a week all unpaid. I don't want to get in that same situation. It just seems like corporate abuse to me. I've heard that there is a way to signup for a shift and half or other alternate arrangements for additional pay. Does a pharmacist get paid hourly or on salary? Its not all about the money, but at the same time I don't work for free. Some overtime is ok, but there is a line in the sand. Its also about time management. I was working so many hours that there was not time for anything else. How many hours does a pharmacist usually work a week?

2) How does the career outlook for pharmacists look? I assume its positive, but are the people graduating with a pharmacy degree able to find a job? Are there any pharmacists getting laid off?

3) I have enough cash to pay for the pre-pharmacy tuition but thats about all. I've heard that once you get accepted to pharmacy school, some hospitals will pay for your pharmacy tuition. At what point do offers like this become available? At acceptance to pharmacy school, one year in pharm school, etc? Are these offers only open to the best of the best, or are they relatively easy to obtain once you're accepted into pharmacy school? Are there any drawbacks to taking one of these offers such as a lower base salary etc? I know that they would expect you to stay at that job for a certain number of years also.

4) The fourth year of pharm school is an internship. Is this a paid internship?

5) My local college wants you to be a pharm tech or work at a pharmacy. (At least they highly recommend it). I know a pharm tech pay isn't so great. After you're accepted into pharm school is there any type of adjust ment, promotion etc?

Sorry for all the money questions. I am switching to pharmcy becuase I think I would like it better. At the same time, there are various hurdles along the way and I want to be sure I can find a way to pay for it all and pull it off. I'm trying to weigh the option of holding out for an engineering job for a bit and working that for a few years then switching to pharmacy or just going right into pharmacy. Either way, I need to find a way to pay for it all. The inherent risk I see that the completion of pre-pharmacy without acceptance into pharm school or lack of funds for pharm school is not worth much. So is a partial completion of pharm school. I just need to make sure that the reduced check book from already being laid off will cover my expenses to complete pharm school. The way I see it, if I went to pre-pharmacy and/or pharm school and didn't finish I would be worse off than I already am since only a completed degree is worth anything and it would have costed a lot of time and money.

Thanks for the help.

 

[koercive]

2) How does the career outlook for pharmacists look? I assume its positive, but are the people graduating with a pharmacy degree able to find a job? Are there any pharmacists getting laid off?
in highly populated urban areas, it may be harder to find a job , rural areas have openings

3) I have enough cash to pay for the pre-pharmacy tuition but thats about all. I've heard that once you get accepted to pharmacy school, some hospitals will pay for your pharmacy tuition. At what point do offers like this become available? At acceptance to pharmacy school, one year in pharm school, etc? Are these offers only open to the best of the best, or are they relatively easy to obtain once you're accepted into pharmacy school? Are there any drawbacks to taking one of these offers such as a lower base salary etc? I know that they would expect you to stay at that job for a certain number of years also.

i never heard of hospitals paying for tuition. almost everyone has loans (they let you borrow enough to cover all your tuition and living expenses if you need). the only program that pays off some tuition that I have heard of is in the armed forces (saw a flier for the air force)

5) My local college wants you to be a pharm tech or work at a pharmacy. (At least they highly recommend it). I know a pharm tech pay isn't so great. After you're accepted into pharm school is there any type of adjust ment, promotion etc?

in pharmacy school, your status changes to pharmacy intern. your pay usually goes up a few dollars or more depending on where you work.

 

[PonderingChoice]

As an engineer, your life-time earnings will be roughly the same as a pharmacist's. My post got eaten, but instead of spending 6 years doing the pre-reqs + pharm. school thing, invest your money in the stock market, in a house, or a Roth IRA. Instead of accruing debt and interest on a 100K+ loan (for tuition alone in many cases), have an investment that's accruing value. A recession is a great time to invest - if you have the money.

You're not even coming in here with some chipper, "I've always wanted to be a pharmacist!" story.

Honestly, the ONLY thing I'd be concerned about is your talk of salary/hours abuse. That is the only thing that I think you have a legitimate concern about. I don't know how wide-spread it is in your profession, but keep in mind, you can always switch employers. That's how people get raises or improve their working conditions - you don't stay at a company that's working you to the bone. Of course, it's a recession so you don't have that luxury right now, but my father, and my SO's parents are engineers and do they have to put in over-time? Sure, but it's nowhere near 10-15 hours a week. They're all pretty much 9 to 5.

 

[jonathan03]

Yes I know it looks bad that I'm only asking about money. But the reason I did is to make sure I can pay for everything and colleges, employers, etc don't like to hear those questions and I can be discrete about finding the information here. I think I would enjoy being a pharmacist and have thought about it before. I would be a dentist if I were doing it just for the money! ;-)

I'm not so sure an engineer would make the same as a pharmacist though. I was laid off 5 months out of college and haven't had a job since then which is about a year. So maybe if an engineer had a job their entire career, but its extremely tough to find a job right now. It seems like it would be much easier to get hired as a pharmacist and keep a job without being laid off.

There are just a few things that really tick me off about engineering. Obviously not being able to find a job, the overtime I worked when I had a job and then still getting laid off, and the huge loss of time and money it has been so far. If I spend the time and money again, I want to make sure it will be worth it.

 

[PonderingChoice]

Isn't this depression supposedly the worse since the Great Depression? I think you're letting this experience color too much of your perspective.

And it's OK to be concerned with money, but I don't think you're going to be better off financially. Also, while some people will talk about the flexibility of a Pharm.D., a B.S. is bound to be more flexible. There's just more positions which want a B.S. of a specific type than positions that demand a Pharm.D.

 

[Passion4Sci]

Have you tried relocating for employment? I find it really, really, realllllyyyy hard to believe that in the entirety of the United States of America, you can't find a single engineering job to which you meet the qualifications.

Pharmacy, to a large extent, isn't a whole lot better than engineering in that respect. Many folks are needing to move out of state, or at the VERY least, change cities, to find suitable employment... and that's bound to only intensify in the coming years.

 

[pharm B]

What particular line of engineering did you work in? New nuke power plants are being built and proposed around the country, so jobs for nuke and chem engineers aren't impossible to find, though the hours can be impossibly long at times (maintenance periods!). Did you just have a bad time as an engineer, leading to having no references for other jobs?

 

[jonathan03]

Honestly, I think I would be better off to switch to pharmacy than relocate. I have a few houses that I rent and they are doing great. I am really not open to moving. I'm not filthy rich or anything, but the rent is enough to break even and I want to hold onto the houses for the appreciation as the economy gets back on track (whenever that is).

I disagree with you about the pharmacy jobs. Just from looking at job sites, I see way more pharmacy jobs than engineering jobs. There are engineering jobs, but only for experienced candidates.

I have good references but I can't even get to that point. There is a shortage of entry level positions.

Pharmacy school is really not much more than regular undergrad. Only 2 k more a year. Plus I have a lot of courses already taken. I'm not sure if you know what an entry engineer makes. 45-55 k starting out versus a pharmacist which I have not seen any job posting in my area less than 100 k. So that is double! Plus even if I hadn't been laid off, all the other employees where I used to work took a 10-30% paycut. Keeping that into consideration, pharmacy would be close to three times what I would have been making.

So I've been trying to get a pharmacy tech job to see if I like it. If all goes well, I'll try and get into pre-pharmacy school this fall or next fall. I think I will like the work and second shift really appeals to me very much. Switching from college to the real world, I really really hate getting up early in the morning. I like the flexibility of the pharmacy schedule and its one of the few white collar jobs that can be worked second or third shift. I also think my open mind to working second and third shift will greatly help me find a job in town without relocating. There are virtually no engineering jobs to be had after first shift.

 

[CatCat]

Hey Jonathan, here are my thoughts, for what they're worth -

ABSOLUTELY work in a pharmacy before you commit to a rigorous 6 year course + student debt. And keep in mind that pharmacists also work in hospitals, long term care (rxs for nursing homes, etc.), industry (research), and with insurance companies (to make sure health care dollars are spent wisely, i.e., don't pay $150 for an rx when a related $4 rx will work as well).

BTW, pharmacist don't just work the evening shifts that you're interested in, but also weekends and holidays.

Read this article: Is the pharmacist shortage over? http://drugtopics.modernmedicine.com/drugtopics/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=651922

I've been a pharmacist for 15 years. Each time I looked for work (four times), I had my pick of jobs – I walked in and was hired. One of my bosses once lamented that his only standards were: don't abuse drugs and don't steal.

My first job in 1995 paid about $40,000. Now my salary is $112,000 for a routine staff job in retail (80 hours). I get paid hourly for overtime (but not when I stay over after the store closes to compulsively finish and re-check my work – that's my own choice, on my time).

My current store is going out of business, so I'm back in the market. The juicy job market I remember is gone. New pharmacy schools have opened, adding extra job seekers each year.

I'm confident I'll find a job but I know I can't be too choosy this time. I might take two part time jobs to avoid a "retail hell" position – that's a job that pays well, but the company treats you like a robot who never needs to pee.

That said, take predictions on the future pharmacy opportunities with a grain of salt. Back in the 90's, the Pew commission predicted there would soon be too many pharmacists and recommended closing pharmacy schools. Then the shortage hit hard. Point is, no one can predict the future.

I think engineering + pharmacy could lead to an interesting career, maybe in research. Just go in with your eyes open. Get experience in a pharmacy, even if you have to put off starting school for a year.

You might find pharmacy work highly tedious. Will you get annoyed by customers who nearly pull their pants down to show you their rash? If you like the work and are truly interested in studying pharmacology and drug therapy, you can move forward with confidence.

If you live in a town with a pharmacy school, you might have to go to a nearby town to find a technician job (some states now require techs to be certified, complicating your search).

Keep in mind that escalating salaries have attracted the brightest students to pharmacy schools; competition to get in is intense. (I doubt that I'd get accepted today!) Have a backup plan if you don't get accepted.

Definitely mention on your applications that you are interested in going to pharmacy school. Many pharmacists like working with smart students, a nice change from ditzy techs who have no life ambitions.

Good luck!

 

[CatCat]

Jonathan, you asked about paid internships.

The terminology might have changed. But as I recall, you need to work a set number of "intern" hours (~1500???) before you can take the state board. You find an intern job on your own. You get experience, but you also are an economic asset to your employer, so you get paid. The last intern I worked with earned ~$15/hr.

"Externships" are set up by the school to enable you to get experience in a particular area. You pay the usual tuition to get the training. You do not get paid because you are not an economic asset at the externship site. But sometimes there are perks - one of my out-of-town hospital externship sites provided free housing and cafeteria food.

 

[mintleif]

Hey Jonathan, here are my thoughts, for what they’re worth -

ABSOLUTELY work in a pharmacy before you commit to a rigorous 6 year course + student debt. And keep in mind that pharmacists also work in hospitals, long term care (rxs for nursing homes, etc.), industry (research), and with insurance companies (to make sure health care dollars are spent wisely, i.e., don’t pay $150 for an rx when a related $4 rx will work as well).

BTW, pharmacist don’t just work the evening shifts that you’re interested in, but also weekends and holidays.

Read this article: Is the pharmacist shortage over? http://drugtopics.modernmedicine.com/drugtopics/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=651922

I’ve been a pharmacist for 15 years. Each time I looked for work (four times), I had my pick of jobs – I walked in and was hired. One of my bosses once lamented that his only standards were: don’t abuse drugs and don’t steal.

My first job in 1995 paid about $40,000. Now salary is $112,000 for a routine staff job in retail (80 hours). I get paid hourly for overtime (but not when I stay over after the store closes to compulsively finish and re-check my work – that’s my own choice, on my time).

My current store is going out of business, so I’m back in the market. The juicy job market I remember is gone. New pharmacy schools have opened, adding extra job seekers each year.

I’m confident I’ll find a job but I know I can’t be too choosy this time. I might take two part time jobs to avoid a “retail hell” position – that’s a job that pays well, but the company treats you like a robot who never needs to pee.

That said, take predictions on the future pharmacy opportunities with a grain of salt. Back in the 90’s, the Pew commission predicted there would soon be too many pharmacists and recommended closing pharmacy schools. Then the shortage hit hard. Point is, no one can predict the future.

I think engineering + pharmacy could lead to an interesting career, maybe in research. Just go in with your eyes open. Get experience in a pharmacy, even if you have to put off starting school for a year.

You might find pharmacy work highly tedious. Will you get annoyed by customers who nearly pull their pants down to show you their rash? If you like the work and are truly interested in studying pharmacology and drug therapy, you can move forward with confidence.

If you live in a town with a pharmacy school, you might have to go to a nearby town to find a technician job (some states now require techs to be certified, complicating your search).

Keep in mind that escalating salaries have attracted the brightest students to pharmacy schools; competition to get in is intense. (I doubt that I’d get accepted today!) Have a backup plan if you don’t get accepted.

Definitely mention on your applications that you are interested in going to pharmacy school. Many pharmacists like working with smart students, a nice change from ditzy techs who have no life ambitions.

Good luck!

i just read the link you posted, interesting and scary. i always thought this would be a stable profession to get into, even when i would graduate. should i start rethinking things then? i want to avoid getting myself into a position where i won't be able to find a job when i graduate college.

 

[deleted205891]

4)By "4th year internship" I guess you mean rotations. No, you are not paid. In fact, you have to pay for them, in many schools more than for any of the other years (since technically you are doing more credit hours per year).