Pharmacist Salary Thread

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well, my friend told me a pharmacist he knows got their pays reduced. Several of my friends are signing on with hospitals for mid $40 hr ranges. Whatever happened to the days of high salaries? Also, there is a lot of talk about pharmacy being saturated in a few yrs if it isnt already. Does this worry any of you guys?

http://www.pharmacytimes.com/issue/pharmacy/2009/2009-04/2009-04-10223

It's scary because it is really real when you know someone who experienced this. Try reading the pharmacy student boards. A lot of the new grads this year have posted a lot of problems even getting an interview at retail positions.

That sounds about right, we'll be hitting saturation point soon. We've already hit that mark in a lot of "highly desirable" locations. I don't expect sign on bonuses to fall into my lap unless they're for rural/way out of the way locations when I graduate.
 
Yes, we also have to consider that many of us will have $150,000+ in loans to repay 🙁
 
Soon, we might have just technicians doing the whole thing. Congress needs to address this issue

Here in Texas the state board has requirements for the technician to pharmacist ratio. It's been some time since I heard the actual figure, but it's either 2:1 or 3:1, I can't remember.

I assume all state boards have similar regulations. Maybe not?
 
market is getting saturated.
In my area we don't have any job openings for a pharmacist.
They recently closed a Shopko pharmacy....
So, I feel like I will be lucky if I find a job that pays 30$ per hour when I graduate....
 
Thank you to everyone for your input. I guess I will probably take the offer considering. Someone mention 46/hr?? I do believe < $50/hr is low balling even in this economy. Some places I've worked at in other states, every pharmacist gets the same as long as they have the same title and responsibility. That makes thing easier cause you know where you stand.
 
STill there are people who are willing to pay $30k/ year tuition.

I am gonna be paying 40K a year for my tuition. But I know I will be doing something that I love.
Had it been just for money, I would not go into pharmacy. I would go into a med school.
 
I am gonna be paying 40K a year for my tuition. But I know I will be doing something that I love.
Had it been just for money, I would not go into pharmacy. I would go into a med school.


I agree with this sentiment, but pharmacy should not be a vow of poverty. Graduating with ~120,000$ in loans and making $30/hr, you will have very little in terms of disposable income.

This is exactly what happened to Psychology in the past half-dozen years.
 
I agree with this sentiment, but pharmacy should not be a vow of poverty. Graduating with ~120,000$ in loans and making $30/hr, you will have very little in terms of disposable income.

This is exactly what happened to Psychology in the past half-dozen years.

very true...I would be lying if I said that it did not freak me out...
But I just don't see myself elsewhere....
 
I am gonna be paying 40K a year for my tuition. But I know I will be doing something that I love.
Had it been just for money, I would not go into pharmacy. I would go into a med school.

Nah man, if you only want money you should go into dentistry. Thats about all its good for...LOL...

Anyhow I just think of it this way....The loans will last only ten years...so I will only have to live like a pauper for ten years...after that I can finally have a good life. It just sucks that I can't have a good life when I am in my twenties...🙄 I have to wait till I am in my thirties (old). 🙁
 
well, my friend told me a pharmacist he knows got their pays reduced. Several of my friends are signing on with hospitals for mid $40 hr ranges. Whatever happened to the days of high salaries? Also, there is a lot of talk about pharmacy being saturated in a few yrs if it isnt already. Does this worry any of you guys?

http://www.pharmacytimes.com/issue/pharmacy/2009/2009-04/2009-04-10223

It's scary because it is really real when you know someone who experienced this. Try reading the pharmacy student boards. A lot of the new grads this year have posted a lot of problems even getting an interview at retail positions.

What kind of job do you have now that $40/hr isn't high pay?
 
What kind of job do you have now that $40/hr isn't high pay?

~$76,000 a year isn't really a "high salary" in a lot of places.

In California, if you have 1 child and a decent house payment, and NO other bills (i.e., loans, CC debt, etc) you're still going to be hurting after taxes.

Just sayin'... 76k a year doesn't really go as far as it used to (As long as you live somewhere other than the Midwest I guess).
 
~$76,000 a year isn't really a "high salary" in a lot of places.

In California, if you have 1 child and a decent house payment, and NO other bills (i.e., loans, CC debt, etc) you're still going to be hurting after taxes.

Just sayin'... 76k a year doesn't really go as far as it used to (As long as you live somewhere other than the Midwest I guess).

Valid point. But most people starting pharmacy school aren't making half of that yet. Keep in mind that liberal arts majors accrue similar amounts of debt but try to pay it off making 40-50k. Also, $40/hr x 2080 hrs/year is $83,200 (with no overtime). And the OP didn't say where these $40 offers were, right? If they're rural jobs in Texas, that's going to go quite a ways.
 
Valid point. But most people starting pharmacy school aren't making half of that yet. Keep in mind that liberal arts majors accrue similar amounts of debt but try to pay it off making 40-50k. Also, $40/hr x 2080 hrs/year is $83,200 (with no overtime). And the OP didn't say where these $40 offers were, right? If they're rural jobs in Texas, that's going to go quite a ways.

Sure, but as you asked where one can work where $40/hr is not "high pay", there are many an industry where a simple Bachelor's in Bio Sci can get you that kind of money. Haz-Mat/Fire Inspectors working for city/county governments for example...

I don't want to turn this into a heated debate, but what liberal arts majors are accruing similar amounts of debt to Pharmacy school?
 
I am gonna be paying 40K a year for my tuition. But I know I will be doing something that I love.
Had it been just for money, I would not go into pharmacy. I would go into a med school.

If I were you, I would try my best to get into a public in-state school. 40K is excessive.
 
If I were you, I would try my best to get into a public in-state school. 40K is excessive.

I thought about it. But it would mean to wait one more year and apply again. Then go to a 4 year of school and acquire 50K loan for tuition.

If I go to the 3 year school with 40K tuition, I will be a pharmacist in 3 years with 120K + in loans.
If I find a job after my graduation that makes 50K (I hope more) a year, I still will be able to make 100K during those 2 years that I would waste on an in-state school....

I thought it through...I just wanna be a professional soon and start making money soon. I am tired of school...
 
Pharmacy is definitely becoming saturated. And Pharmacy Schools are to blame. Every year there are several schools opening up and it is becoming ridiculous to a point. This year I saw University of New England(UNE) open a pharmacy program. The school has NO ACCREDITATION at all and at this point still CANNOT admit students into their program, but just look that the response it gets in its threads. Students are desperate and schools profit. Now UNE will accept students turned down by all other schools, basically students who should not get into pharmacy school, thus creating saturation. I sometimes question my decision to pursue Pharmacy. You look at what nurses make with a 4 year degree (70-90K + overtime! easily in my area, NYC) and if they specialize 2 more years of school, they can surely make 120-170K( 170K, for anesthesiologst nurse).
 
I don't want to turn this into a heated debate, but what liberal arts majors are accruing similar amounts of debt to Pharmacy school?

There was an article a while back about fin-and and it had some dumb dumb who paid $120k for a degree in photography (not even an MFA). All of my photographer friends who are really good were self-taught and charge $5k+ per job.
 
There was an article a while back about fin-and and it had some dumb dumb who paid $120k for a degree in photography (not even an MFA). All of my photographer friends who are really good were self-taught and charge $5k+ per job.

😱 I can't imagine being in debt for a Bach degree...most people I know do not owe any loans after a BS or BA or they owe a max of 15K or so....any more then 15K will be foolish for a Bach degree. :laugh:
 
😱 I can't imagine being in debt for a Bach degree...most people I know do not owe any loans after a BS or BA or they owe a max of 15K or so....any more then 15K will be foolish for a Bach degree. :laugh:

Yeah I think I have about $15k in loans for my BS, granted the interest rate is something like 2.75%, so I mean I don't really care. I'd be making $30-$40k had I gone right to work (starting salary). The sad thing is, if you spent $120k on my degree at the private school down the way, you'd still be making $30-$40k/yr. Doh.
 
I guess I just can't see going to a private school for undergraduate unless you've got at least a 3/4 academic scholarship... I simply cannot imagine paying tuition for a private university yourself through loans and such. I suppose you have to do what you have to do, but damn.

It makes more sense to me to risk a little more money via loans for graduate/professional school, but for a BA/BS it seems so foolish especially considering how easy getting into 4 year state schools is for UG!

I guess there's a sucker born every minute, though... As evidenced by these "heald college" type stand-alones that are charging 13-20 grand for Pharmacy Tech courses...
 
I guess I just can't see going to a private school for undergraduate unless you've got at least a 3/4 academic scholarship... I simply cannot imagine paying tuition for a private university yourself through loans and such. I suppose you have to do what you have to do, but damn.

It makes more sense to me to risk a little more money via loans for graduate/professional school, but for a BA/BS it seems so foolish especially considering how easy getting into 4 year state schools is for UG!

I guess there's a sucker born every minute, though... As evidenced by these "heald college" type stand-alones that are charging 13-20 grand for Pharmacy Tech courses...

Totally agree, unless its Harvard, Yale or Princeton I will never take out a loan for an undergraduate degree...especially since they are pretty much WORTHLESS now...I have a degree in Chemistry...absolutely USELESS.
 
Yeah I think I have about $15k in loans for my BS, granted the interest rate is something like 2.75%, so I mean I don't really care. I'd be making $30-$40k had I gone right to work (starting salary). The sad thing is, if you spent $120k on my degree at the private school down the way, you'd still be making $30-$40k/yr. Doh.

What was your degree in? I wish I can go back in time so I will know that pretty much all bach degrees are worthless except maybe finance, marketing, or business...I would change my Chemistry/biology degree for a business degree anyday...too bad I wasn't well inform in my younger years. 🙄
 
Totally agree, unless its Harvard, Yale or Princeton I will never take out a loan for an undergraduate degree...especially since they are pretty much WORTHLESS now...I have a degree in Chemistry...absolutely USELESS.

I graduated from Stanford (The only West Coast Ivy!) and I would not have gone there if I had not gotten a very strong private scholarship. It'd just have been flippin' ridiculous!!

Yale, Harvard, nothin'. No Ivy League education is worth it if you're having to front it out of your pocket with loans. A $130,000 Bachelor's degree is just non-sense if you ask me. Bad enough that a lot of doctorate-level degrees are starting to require upward to 150-200k to complete, let alone having a pre-existing 100-150k in undergraduate loans. Talk about a vow of poverty?

SHC1984, why did you change your (very vibrant) signature?
 
What was your degree in? I wish I can go back in time so I will know that pretty much all bach degrees are worthless except maybe finance, marketing, or business...I would change my Chemistry/biology degree for a business degree anyday...too bad I wasn't well inform in my younger years. 🙄

My degree was biology, so my $30k-$40k starting salary is from personal experience and friends that went right to work after school. Aside from that, this degree is essentially just a stepping stone to professional school.

If I had a chance to go back, I would have gotten an English degree or a degree in Japanese language with a biology or chemistry minor. I really did NOT need the depth that the bio degree gave me, I would have had more fun with a humanities degree + the minor that would satisfy prerequisites to prof. school.
 
I graduated from Stanford (The only West Coast Ivy!) and I would not have gone there if I had not gotten a very strong private scholarship. It'd just have been flippin' ridiculous!!

Yale, Harvard, nothin'. No Ivy League education is worth it if you're having to front it out of your pocket with loans. A $130,000 Bachelor's degree is just non-sense if you ask me. Bad enough that a lot of doctorate-level degrees are starting to require upward to 150-200k to complete, let alone having a pre-existing 100-150k in undergraduate loans. Talk about a vow of poverty?

SHC1984, why did you change your (very vibrant) signature?

Wow, Stanford is awesome, the best school in CA for sure!!!👍👍👍 But I agree that taking out loans for more then 15K for a BA or BS is a waste of money. I went to The University of North Carolina at Charlotte a school that no one has ever heard of I am sure. :laugh: but I came out with NO debt at all so I am glad. :laugh:

Something about those Ivy names that really attracted me though...I got into Columbia and UPenn dental school, but got rejected from Harvard dental...Something about the name Harvard..makes me REALLLLY want to go there....:laugh: but at the end I see nothing is worth ALL THAT DEBT! I was at Columbia dental for almost a semester...had I finish the degree I would have been almost 300K in debt....God, my life would suck after that point for sure. so glad I dropped out...a little bit sad about having NO ivy degree, but very happy about about NO debt!!!👍

The only real advantage of attending an Ivy like Harvard or Columbia would be the opportunity you have to meet some really cool people...almost everyone in my dental class at Columbia to really well known undergrad...(even got to date a guy from Princeton thats in Columbia Med since Columbia combines their Med and Dental students together. )I have never met so many Ivy graduates since i am from North Carolina! LOL...

I didn't change my signature...don't know why its not there anymore????
 
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Wow, Stanford is awesome, the best school in CA for sure!!!👍👍👍 But I agree that taking out loans for more then 15K for a BA or BS is a waste of money. I went to The University of North Carolina at Charlotte a school that no one has ever heard of I am sure. :laugh: but I came out with NO debt at all so I am glad. :laugh:

Something about those Ivy names that really attracted me though...I got into Columbia and UPenn dental school, but got rejected from Harvard dental...Something about the name Harvard..makes me REALLLLY want to go there....:laugh: but at the end I see nothing is worth ALL THAT DEBT! I was at Columbia dental for almost a semester...had I finish the degree I would have been almost 300K in debt....God, my life would suck after that point for sure. so glad I dropped out...a little bit sad about having NO ivy degree, but very happy about about NO debt!!!👍

The sad thing is, after I finished my degree at Stanford, I completed another Psychology degree, but a BS this time, at a state school... And I really noticed very little difference between the two schools, except how much more expensive the tuition was at Stanford (Thank goodness I was not paying for it) and how much more arrogant the students and faculty were.

I don't know how you could want to spend your life with your fingers poking around in someone's mouth. My utmost respect for dentist's, because out of all the crappy jobs I've done pre- and post-Army, that'd probably top the list IMO.

Why'd you change all your fancy signature stuff?
 
Signatures only appear on the first post in a thread by that user and do not appear in any subsequent posts.

I'm kind of an academic snob, so StanfUrd and Palo Alto would be right up my alley. I spelled it with a u because, well, gooo bears 👍
 
My degree was biology, so my $30k-$40k starting salary is from personal experience and friends that went right to work after school. Aside from that, this degree is essentially just a stepping stone to professional school.

If I had a chance to go back, I would have gotten an English degree or a degree in Japanese language with a biology or chemistry minor. I really did NOT need the depth that the bio degree gave me, I would have had more fun with a humanities degree + the minor that would satisfy prerequisites to prof. school.

agree, too much depth....Physical chemistry was something I was better off not taking all together! :laugh:
 
Signatures only appear on the first post in a thread by that user and do not appear in any subsequent posts.

I'm kind of an academic snob, so StanfUrd and Palo Alto would be right up my alley. I spelled it with a u because, well, gooo bears 👍

Ah, makes sense about the signature - I never noticed before! Obviously.

Most of Palo Alto is pretty snoody, although East PA is definitely an area you'd like to keep away from. There, when gangbangers fire an assault rifle into the air, the police show up 5 minutes later and sweep up the shell casings. It's pretty horrible, crime that is, in E.PA.

CAL can go die! The whole school and their tree-squatting poop-throwers.

Cardinal Aggies for life!
 
The sad thing is, after I finished my degree at Stanford, I completed another Psychology degree, but a BS this time, at a state school... And I really noticed very little difference between the two schools, except how much more expensive the tuition was at Stanford (Thank goodness I was not paying for it) and how much more arrogant the students and faculty were.

I don't know how you could want to spend your life with your fingers poking around in someone's mouth. My utmost respect for dentist's, because out of all the crappy jobs I've done pre- and post-Army, that'd probably top the list IMO.

Why'd you change all your fancy signature stuff?

I wanted to do Ortho before b/c I thought the $$$ was good and the job would not be very stressful etc. but its very competitve and I don't think I like it enough to work my a** off everyday in dental school to be top in my class to get into a Ortho residency...not to mention I am not sure if I am smart enough to be the top in my class....If I can't get into ortho I will be stuck doing general dentistry and yes thats the nastiest job ever...but Ortho is not. But its just too risky b/c you pretty much have to be the smartest #1 student in your class to get a spot in ORTHO, so thats just too much pressure for me to take on. 😱 Not to mention the debt 300K for 4 years of dental school, plus 40K+ a year for Ortho residency tuition for THREE years + living expenses. Plus 1 million+ dollars to start a private practice. ETC ETC ETC. Just too much pressure. Again the Ivy name is hot, but I don't want all the STRESS/DEBT that comes with it.
Not to mention I just want to eventually start a familly and hopfully work as a part time and stay at home with 1 or 2 kids. No Ivy degree require! :laugh::laugh::laugh: Except maybe if I was in an Ivy league school my chances of landing a husband that could afford to let me stay home will dramatically increase, but oh well can't have everything my way I guess.
Sorry for the rant. Now that I got into pharmacy school I am getting cold feet again. But I am getting too damn old to be dropping out of another school. I need to start making $$$
 
Except maybe if I was in an Ivy league school my chances of landing a husband that could afford to let me stay home will dramatically increase, but oh well can't have everything my way I guess.

Send me some pictures, I know a lot of the guys still and a lot of them went on to Ivy league graduate schools =P

I don't think you're "too old" to drop out of another school, but if your heart lies in producing children and being a stay at home mom, it might very well be a waste of time/money.
 
All my Cal friends HATED those tree squatters, they were effing annoying. Glad they got their precious trees bulldozed, stupid ****s.

And what the hell is your mascot anyway? an aggie? a tree? a cardinal?

and yes, EPA is freakin' ghetto...what i liked about the farm was driving around back heading over to 280 and driving up to SF. You forget you live in a densely populated state for a little while.
 
Send me some pictures, I know a lot of the guys still and a lot of them went on to Ivy league graduate schools =P

I don't think you're "too old" to drop out of another school, but if your heart lies in producing children and being a stay at home mom, it might very well be a waste of time/money.

You have PM. 🙂

I would not mind working at Target or Costco or a hospital (a place with NO drive thru. LOL..) part-time and have 1 or 2 kids. I would like to make SOME money ( 40K or 50K a year would be great, if I have a husband to pay most of the bills...) It will be annoying to ALWAYS ask for money, so its best to make a little bit of my own, and pharmacy seems like a fairly stable career that makes a pretty good amount of money...and its not nasty like dentistry. so I say why not?
 
All my Cal friends HATED those tree squatters, they were effing annoying. Glad they got their precious trees bulldozed, stupid ****s.

And what the hell is your mascot anyway? an aggie? a tree? a cardinal?

and yes, EPA is freakin' ghetto...what i liked about the farm was driving around back heading over to 280 and driving up to SF. You forget you live in a densely populated state for a little while.

Well, it depends on exactly which Alma Mater you're asking about! Stanford's mascot is two fold:

1. The color "cardinal", NOT the bird... This was drilled into us ad nauseum.
2. The Tree, which is a nod to the name of the city, Palo Alto, which roughly translated means Tall Tree (as in Botany).

UC Davis's mascot (my 2nd alma mater, for UG) is an Aggie, which is a Mustang-esque running animal (for the actual mascot). The name Aggie alludes to the fact that UCD was an agricultural school since 1908 (And in fact is the oldest Ag-school in The United States which Texas A&M really close behind).

It's rather incidental that I went to "The Farm" (Stanford), and then I went to a school that really IS a farm (Davis is beautiful though, and a wonderful wonderful place to live).

The subtle joke that is life!
 
It's rather incidental that I went to "The Farm" (Stanford), and then I went to a school that really IS a farm (Davis is beautiful though, and a wonderful wonderful place to live).

The subtle joke that is life!

Haha, I like that...I didn't catch that you went to Davis. I went there for one summer and remember having to stop in the street waiting for ducks to cross. Really nice place though...great place to lounge around, definitely a college town 👍

However, when the winds blew the wrong way, sometimes you just get a whiff of "farm fresh produce" if you know what I mean :luck:
 
Haha, I like that...I didn't catch that you went to Davis. I went there for one summer and remember having to stop in the street waiting for ducks to cross. Really nice place though...great place to lounge around, definitely a college town 👍

However, when the winds blew the wrong way, sometimes you just get a whiff of "farm fresh produce" if you know what I mean :luck:

Yea, not only do you have to yield for ducks, you can't make right turns on most red lights, you have to yield for frogs too, and if you aren't riding a bike chances are you're going to be screwed!

It is the best place I've ever lived, bar none... That's why the very day I finished my military service I broke my lease (best 350 bucks ever) from my apartment in TX, collected my wife and belongings and drove 1750 miles right back here! It's expensive as all get-out, ($1600/mo for a 2bdr) but worth every penny IMO. Peace of mind is priceless, I learned that in 4 years of military service.

And yes, I TOTALLY know exactly what you mean about the 'farm fresh produce', especially if you're in West Davis (I'm closer to South Davis, the newer and more "metropolitan" [lol] side) you'll definitely get whiffs of that every day, especially in the summer, sooooweeeeeee!
 
Yea, not only do you have to yield for ducks, you can't make right turns on most red lights, you have to yield for frogs too, and if you aren't riding a bike chances are you're going to be screwed!

It is the best place I've ever lived, bar none... That's why the very day I finished my military service I broke my lease (best 350 bucks ever) from my apartment in TX, collected my wife and belongings and drove 1750 miles right back here! It's expensive as all get-out, ($1600/mo for a 2bdr) but worth every penny IMO. Peace of mind is priceless, I learned that in 4 years of military service.

And yes, I TOTALLY know exactly what you mean about the 'farm fresh produce', especially if you're in West Davis (I'm closer to South Davis, the newer and more "metropolitan" [lol] side) you'll definitely get whiffs of that every day, especially in the summer, sooooweeeeeee!

Hey, $1600/2bd is not bad at all.... that's how much 1 bedrooms were going for down in Orange County. Man, what a change that was. Davis in the summer of '02, OC by the fall of '02...night and day. As much as I liked the small town feel of Davis, I kinda liked being one of the few bay area transplants behind the "me me me" orange curtain.

I'd consider moving back...you got a lot of small towns along I-80 to pick from that have relatively cheap housing and good schools. Fairfield, Vacaville, Dixon, Davis, suburbs around Sac, heck even Woodland. The commute to sac isn't even that bad since most of the traffic is bay area bound.

Everyone who hates on CA for its traffic/expensive housing/pollution would find Solano/Yolo palatable.

But me? I kinda miss the structured chaos of so-cal, but my relocation options when I finish school are open. If I go into the AF I'd request Travis and commute in from the Davis area.
 
Hey, $1600/2bd is not bad at all.... that's how much 1 bedrooms were going for down in Orange County. If I go into the AF I'd request Travis and commute in from the Davis area.


As a veteran of two tours in the "War on Terror", I'd like to urge you to stay away from the military.

That out of the way, I don't know, I find $1600/mo for an apartment to be a little outrageous, but I suppose that's because we had a 3 bedroom townhouse in Killeen, TX for a tidy $675 a month...

I agree though, that Yolo / Solano county are quite nice, and the commute into Sacramento is not bad at all, as you noted. I am not even fearing my 60ish mile commute to Stockton for UoP next year... Although I wish my Mustang fared a little better than 24 MPG on a mixed tank. 🙄
 
As a veteran of two tours in the "War on Terror", I'd like to urge you to stay away from the military.

That out of the way, I don't know, I find $1600/mo for an apartment to be a little outrageous, but I suppose that's because we had a 3 bedroom townhouse in Killeen, TX for a tidy $675 a month...

I agree though, that Yolo / Solano county are quite nice, and the commute into Sacramento is not bad at all, as you noted. I am not even fearing my 60ish mile commute to Stockton for UoP next year... Although I wish my Mustang fared a little better than 24 MPG on a mixed tank. 🙄


Where did you deploy to/where were you stationed? I'm not keen on the army base locations, just the ones for Navy and AF. I have friends/family in most of the branches and the experience is interesting to me.

Hmmm Davis to Stockton? That's a little bit tricky. You might want to experiment and time your commuting since you'll have to hit up the US-50 to I-5 (or 99, I don't know which is closer to campus) and that can get jammed up in the mornings/afternoons.

I'm pretty sure you're fine though, you'll be going anti-commute assuming your classes are in the morning/early afternoon. Just try not to be southbound on 5/99 anytime after 3-4pm.

And hey, 24mpg isn't too bad...my old honda got 30, and enjoy the fact that gas is cheap for now and will probably stay that way until we graduate.
 
Where did you deploy to/where were you stationed? I'm not keen on the army base locations, just the ones for Navy and AF. I have friends/family in most of the branches and the experience is interesting to me.

Hmmm Davis to Stockton? That's a little bit tricky. You might want to experiment and time your commuting since you'll have to hit up the US-50 to I-5 (or 99, I don't know which is closer to campus) and that can get jammed up in the mornings/afternoons.

I'm pretty sure you're fine though, you'll be going anti-commute assuming your classes are in the morning/early afternoon. Just try not to be southbound on 5/99 anytime after 3-4pm.

And hey, 24mpg isn't too bad...my old honda got 30, and enjoy the fact that gas is cheap for now and will probably stay that way until we graduate.


Davis to Stockton's not bad at all, you kiddin'? Classes in the morning will almost completely bypass standard Sacramento traffic, because I am not going on US50/Capital City Fwy, I'm going down I-5 through Florin and Elk Grove, etc. I've run the route several times during weekday "rush hour" periods and there've been minimal slowdowns. Returning around 3, 4 pm can be a little slow, but most of the traffic is outbound from Sacramento and headed south. The Causeway is always slow, so that's a given.

It isn't ideal, and depending on where my wife goes to law school, I may have a different drive completely (If Boalt accepts her, we will be moving to Livermore/Dublin so she can BART to Berkeley and I can just take 205 through Tracy).

I was stationed at Fort Hood in Texas, and I deployed to LSA Anaconda. We did ops out of there, but I traversed most of the countryside through Najaf, Baghdad proper, Tikrit, you name it. My second deployment was to OEF in Afghanistan and I spent most of my time there in Qandahar but did get out to Kabul, Mazari Sharif and some other places (not de-classed yet).

Interesting is one adjective that could be assigned to the atrocities I witnessed and sometimes was called upon to commit, I guess. I certainly wouldn't use the word interesting. But, my experience was very, very different than someone's experience who was in the AF.
 
Davis to Stockton's not bad at all, you kiddin'? Classes in the morning will almost completely bypass standard Sacramento traffic, because I am not going on US50/Capital City Fwy, I'm going down I-5 through Florin and Elk Grove, etc. I've run the route several times during weekday "rush hour" periods and there've been minimal slowdowns. Returning around 3, 4 pm can be a little slow, but most of the traffic is outbound from Sacramento and headed south. The Causeway is always slow, so that's a given.

It isn't ideal, and depending on where my wife goes to law school, I may have a different drive completely (If Boalt accepts her, we will be moving to Livermore/Dublin so she can BART to Berkeley and I can just take 205 through Tracy).

I was stationed at Fort Hood in Texas, and I deployed to LSA Anaconda. We did ops out of there, but I traversed most of the countryside through Najaf, Baghdad proper, Tikrit, you name it. My second deployment was to OEF in Afghanistan and I spent most of my time there in Qandahar but did get out to Kabul, Mazari Sharif and some other places (not de-classed yet).

Interesting is one adjective that could be assigned to the atrocities I witnessed and sometimes was called upon to commit, I guess. I certainly wouldn't use the word interesting. But, my experience was very, very different than someone's experience who was in the AF.

I got confused, I meant Bus. 80/US-50 for about 5-7 mins past the I-80 turnoff in West Sac. Yeah shouldn't be too bad...I think I-5 is 3 lanes to Stockton, it's been a while since I've been down there. I think with this whole foreclosure mess, traffic is probably a lot better than 4 years ago.

Livermore is cheaper than Davis I think, that place is more like an exurb than a suburb. Not as homely as Davis, but it's easier to get to SF for the day if you're looking for excitement.

And thank you for your service, I guess interesting isn't the exact word I was looking for. Interesting = things you do on vacation. I think what I meant was that I'm drawn to it because politics aside, I'd be a health care practitioner with a purpose...I'd enjoy my work better knowing I wasn't helping some spoiled trust-fund yahoo with a benzo addiction.

That's not to say the service doesn't have any a-holes like that, but I'd just be damn proud to say that my work goes to people like you and other vets who put themselves on the line...whatever that line may be. I'm not gonna pretend to ever know what it's like to have been in your position, I probably couldn't handle the army, and my experience in a AF hospital away from the actual business of war wouldn't even come close.

So yeah, option is still open...or I could work at the VA, we'll see. I guess I'm just looking for purpose.
 
I don't know about what the story the OP posted a link for said b/c it wouldn't come up. I do know that on the TPA (Texas Pharmacy Association) website, they had a link to a story that said pharmacist's salaries actually increased amid this economic mess we find ourselves in.

http://drugtopics.modernmedicine.co...Article/detail/585679?contextCategoryId=47558

I point your gaze to the paragraph directly below the first set of bullet points which talks about the shortage not being solved anytime soon. I don't mean to stir the pot any, but as for new schools saturating the market with sub-par students, if they can make it through the program and pass the tests to get licensed, what does that mean for all the other non-sub-par students from accredited programs?
 
I don't know about what the story the OP posted a link for said b/c it wouldn't come up. I do know that on the TPA (Texas Pharmacy Association) website, they had a link to a story that said pharmacist's salaries actually increased amid this economic mess we find ourselves in.

http://drugtopics.modernmedicine.co...Article/detail/585679?contextCategoryId=47558

I point your gaze to the paragraph directly below the first set of bullet points which talks about the shortage not being solved anytime soon. I don't mean to stir the pot any, but as for new schools saturating the market with sub-par students, if they can make it through the program and pass the tests to get licensed, what does that mean for all the other non-sub-par students from accredited programs?

An interesting article, I enjoyed that, and thank you for linking it.

I bolded the part of your reply that I would like to address briefly. Several "upstart" Pharmacy schools have not graduated their first class (Tuoro and Cal Northstate in CA alone, I think there are a couple more as well) so we simply do not know how they will perform on state licensure exams - If they fail and the statistical variation is significant in nature, what then? If we can, through time, see the efficacy of said "sub-par candidate" producing schools is poor, what is the impetus for change?

The problem is as it currently is in Psychology, except not quite as pronounced, because as a profession, social services is already paid at a lower premium than anything to do with science. But if you put on your thinking cap, you can apply the over-saturation point from what's happening in Psychology (With upstart Ph.D and Psy.D programs churning our new Ph.D Clinical Psychologists by the bushel).

For the last 20 years, there has been a steady supply of new Psychologists to the market, and this has been maintaining homeostasis in the market, so salaries have remained roughly the same. However, in the most recent 5/6 years, a dozen new "stand alone" Psychology doctorate program-teaching schools have sprung up, accepting students who wouldn't have a snowball's chance at getting into a "real" Ph.D program. These stand-alones have outrageous tuition (Talking up to $300k for a doctorate that will start you off, on national average, at about 55 grand a year) and, on the whole, produce horrible clinicians and researchers. Indeed, some folks who graduate from these programs do end up making fine therapists, however the proof is in the pudding, that the average pass rate for a Psychology Ph.D holder from a non-traditional (read: standalone) university is 28% on the first time through. They also cannot match through APPIC for post-doc internships but anyway that's another subject. Though they can pass state-licensure examinations on the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th try, they dilute the profession as a whole, and existing clinicians who really worked for their degree and respect are alienated.

That, in my opinion, will be the impact of all of these new Pharmacy schools. Even if the graduates enter the market, and pass the exams, the lower standards with which they entered Pharmacy school will create a surplus and eventually lower salary. Does Wal-Mart really care if I went to UCSF or Cal Northstate? Not really. But if I'm from UCSF and expect X salary, and someone from Northstate will be happy with Y salary, (i.e., Wal-Mart can be discerning consumers about who they hire, read: surplus) then over time, Pharmacy as a profession will be devalued.

Will that necessarily come to pass? Who is to say... One thing's for sure, and that's Pharmacy schools make money for the school. Other programs do not, so it's most assuredly a business proposition in opening CoPs, instead of a mindset of creating quality pharmacists.

Pharmacy, like Psychology, is starting to be about making profit for institutions and less about the actual work (As it pertains to "start up" CoPs). While "sub-par" Pharmacists will not directly affect "non-sub-par" pharmacists, the flood of Pharmacists IN GENERAL in the market has to affect salary, it simply must, economically.
 
Don't get me wrong, I'm not impugning the fact that some low speed, high drag individuals will be let in and possibly graduate from pharmacy schools. But, as you make mention, places like Wal-Mart, CVS and Walgreens have things such that it is difficult to make an error because they don't want to get sued. Also, the picture of pharmacy jobs is different in every state because each state regulates the profession in their own way. In Texas, there is no real shortage, even in some of the larger metropolitan areas like Dallas and San Antonio. Austin and Houston are harder to get the really good paying jobs right out of school because there are schools of pharmacy there that are well established. Texas has a 1:3 ratio in the retail setting for pharmacists to techs. This makes it such that the job market is still very stable here for the nice salaries that everyone hears about.

The other issue is, there are new areas of pharmacy opening up that will require people that have gone to the better schools and are more geared to research and clinical positions. There are also most likely areas that haven't even shown up that will open up new options to pharmacists to go into. Pharmacy is in a state of flux right now and the most important thing is to get involved in politics that surround pharmacy and don't get lulled into being a sheep to one particular candidate because you like what they say on other issues. Politicians are essentially tools that need to be used in constructive ways, regardless of their party. Not many people are aware that there have been three meetings that the President has called to talk about health care reform and at none of these meetings has he really invited pharmacy. His idea of inviting pharmacy was including the PBM's. I don't care which way anyone voted and what they think of the man, he's dangerous for the profession of pharmacy. If you're in pharmacy, you need, no, you HAVE to be in politics. It was reported by APhA that it was proposed that the job of a pharmacist now can be done by a computer or nurse, so why do we need a pharmacist that gets paid so much? How does that make you feel that someone is devaluing the profession to this? If we don't speak up, our profession is going to be ruled by those that don't understand it.
http://www.pharmacist.com/AM/Templa...NTENTID=19432&TEMPLATE=/CM/ContentDisplay.cfm
 
Don't get me wrong, I'm not impugning the fact that some low speed, high drag individuals will be let in and possibly graduate from pharmacy schools. But, as you make mention, places like Wal-Mart, CVS and Walgreens have things such that it is difficult to make an error because they don't want to get sued. Also, the picture of pharmacy jobs is different in every state because each state regulates the profession in their own way. In Texas, there is no real shortage, even in some of the larger metropolitan areas like Dallas and San Antonio. Austin and Houston are harder to get the really good paying jobs right out of school because there are schools of pharmacy there that are well established. Texas has a 1:3 ratio in the retail setting for pharmacists to techs. This makes it such that the job market is still very stable here for the nice salaries that everyone hears about.

The other issue is, there are new areas of pharmacy opening up that will require people that have gone to the better schools and are more geared to research and clinical positions. There are also most likely areas that haven't even shown up that will open up new options to pharmacists to go into. Pharmacy is in a state of flux right now and the most important thing is to get involved in politics that surround pharmacy and don't get lulled into being a sheep to one particular candidate because you like what they say on other issues. Politicians are essentially tools that need to be used in constructive ways, regardless of their party. Not many people are aware that there have been three meetings that the President has called to talk about health care reform and at none of these meetings has he really invited pharmacy. His idea of inviting pharmacy was including the PBM's. I don't care which way anyone voted and what they think of the man, he's dangerous for the profession of pharmacy. If you're in pharmacy, you need, no, you HAVE to be in politics. It was reported by APhA that it was proposed that the job of a pharmacist now can be done by a computer or nurse, so why do we need a pharmacist that gets paid so much? How does that make you feel that someone is devaluing the profession to this? If we don't speak up, our profession is going to be ruled by those that don't understand it.
http://www.pharmacist.com/AM/Templa...NTENTID=19432&TEMPLATE=/CM/ContentDisplay.cfm

Man, this is an excellent post. I learned quite abit.
 
An interesting article, I enjoyed that, and thank you for linking it.

I bolded the part of your reply that I would like to address briefly. Several "upstart" Pharmacy schools have not graduated their first class (Tuoro and Cal Northstate in CA alone, I think there are a couple more as well) so we simply do not know how they will perform on state licensure exams - If they fail and the statistical variation is significant in nature, what then? If we can, through time, see the efficacy of said "sub-par candidate" producing schools is poor, what is the impetus for change?

The problem is as it currently is in Psychology, except not quite as pronounced, because as a profession, social services is already paid at a lower premium than anything to do with science. But if you put on your thinking cap, you can apply the over-saturation point from what's happening in Psychology (With upstart Ph.D and Psy.D programs churning our new Ph.D Clinical Psychologists by the bushel).

For the last 20 years, there has been a steady supply of new Psychologists to the market, and this has been maintaining homeostasis in the market, so salaries have remained roughly the same. However, in the most recent 5/6 years, a dozen new "stand alone" Psychology doctorate program-teaching schools have sprung up, accepting students who wouldn't have a snowball's chance at getting into a "real" Ph.D program. These stand-alones have outrageous tuition (Talking up to $300k for a doctorate that will start you off, on national average, at about 55 grand a year) and, on the whole, produce horrible clinicians and researchers. Indeed, some folks who graduate from these programs do end up making fine therapists, however the proof is in the pudding, that the average pass rate for a Psychology Ph.D holder from a non-traditional (read: standalone) university is 28% on the first time through. They also cannot match through APPIC for post-doc internships but anyway that's another subject. Though they can pass state-licensure examinations on the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th try, they dilute the profession as a whole, and existing clinicians who really worked for their degree and respect are alienated.

That, in my opinion, will be the impact of all of these new Pharmacy schools. Even if the graduates enter the market, and pass the exams, the lower standards with which they entered Pharmacy school will create a surplus and eventually lower salary. Does Wal-Mart really care if I went to UCSF or Cal Northstate? Not really. But if I'm from UCSF and expect X salary, and someone from Northstate will be happy with Y salary, (i.e., Wal-Mart can be discerning consumers about who they hire, read: surplus) then over time, Pharmacy as a profession will be devalued.

Will that necessarily come to pass? Who is to say... One thing's for sure, and that's Pharmacy schools make money for the school. Other programs do not, so it's most assuredly a business proposition in opening CoPs, instead of a mindset of creating quality pharmacists.

Pharmacy, like Psychology, is starting to be about making profit for institutions and less about the actual work (As it pertains to "start up" CoPs). While "sub-par" Pharmacists will not directly affect "non-sub-par" pharmacists, the flood of Pharmacists IN GENERAL in the market has to affect salary, it simply must, economically.

So does this mean I shouldn't reply to that e-mail I got today promising me a PhD, MBA, or probably a PharmD in ten days??? ;-) Man, I went the wrong way, taking six years to get a PhD. I don't know what I was thinking.

Having graduated from Davis, it was nice reminiscing by reading this thread. I love Seattle, but it was so easy to ride a bike in Davis, and the warm weather was wonderful.
 
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