Pharmacy and conflicts of interest

[bravotwozero]

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I've considered pharmacy as a possible career option. However, I believe i may face a conflict of interest between my personal beliefs in what is best for the patient, and making money via selling drugs. I definitely believe that while drugs may be necessary for many medical conditions, they may (perhaps should) not be in many instances. You may not need to take cholesterol lowering medications, or anti-hypertensive drugs, if you control your diet, and exercise properly. However, with pharmacy being the lucrative field that it is, one may be strongly inclined to simply fulfill the prescription and make a profit.

Do you guys think that I could possibly resolve such a conflict? As a pharmacist, would I be able to advise patients on possible alternatives to drugs?

 

[trishias]

I've considered pharmacy as a possible career option. However, I believe i may face a conflict of interest between my personal beliefs in what is best for the patient, and making money via selling drugs. I definitely believe that while drugs may be necessary for many medical conditions, they may (perhaps should) not be in many instances. You may not need to take cholesterol lowering medications, or anti-hypertensive drugs, if you control your diet, and exercise properly. However, with pharmacy being the lucrative field that it is, one may be strongly inclined to simply fulfill the prescription and make a profit.

Do you guys think that I could possibly resolve such a conflict? As a pharmacist, would I be able to advise patients on possible alternatives to drugs?

I've thought about that conflict but I think it's all about the patient. Yes, "sell" drugs to patients and I dont see why we cant advise them about alternatives, i.e. exercise. These alternatives will only work if the patient is willing to commit to doing them. Yes, its easy to say to the patient that u can avoid high cholesterol, high blood pressure and diabetes by eating right and exercising, but its hard to do. The easy way out is by taking "pills" to correct the problem. Most people wil say "why exercise or change what I am doing when I can take a pill?" What about those who do exercise and eat healthy and still have high cholesterol or high blood pressure due to genetic component, they have to have drugs in order to stay healthy.

If you think your patient will benefit from your advise, then by all means counsel them regarding exercise, but its ultimately up to the patient whether or not to take the advice.

 

[dgroulx]

I've considered pharmacy as a possible career option. However, I believe i may face a conflict of interest between my personal beliefs in what is best for the patient, and making money via selling drugs. I definitely believe that while drugs may be necessary for many medical conditions, they may (perhaps should) not be in many instances. You may not need to take cholesterol lowering medications, or anti-hypertensive drugs, if you control your diet, and exercise properly. However, with pharmacy being the lucrative field that it is, one may be strongly inclined to simply fulfill the prescription and make a profit.

Do you guys think that I could possibly resolve such a conflict? As a pharmacist, would I be able to advise patients on possible alternatives to drugs?

I think once you start studying drugs that you may change your mind about using pure diet and exercise. For instance, my body produces way too much cholesterol. Diet and exercise will not control it, so I take a statin in addition to watching my cholesterol intake.

One of my friends is in really good physical shape, is athletic, very active and even counts salt grams for controlling his blood pressure. Still, he has to be on a beta-blocker to control his heart rate.

When you go to the doctor, they prescribe diet and exercise as a first option. I tried for a year before being placed on a statin. As a pharmacist, you really don't know what the physician has already tried with the patient.

I think you should be able to overcome this. It's not really a conflict of interest. You need to have faith that the patient's physician is treating the condition the way that they feel is best.

 

[bananaface]

Your professional opinion as to what is the most appropriate treatment for the patient takes precedence over profit. That doesn't mean you will take a loss on a prescription you fill. But, you may have to turn away some prescriptions, or request that a medication with a lower cost to the patient be prescribed. There is enough money to be made without having to shove unecessary or inappropriate drugs down patients' throats, figuratively speaking, of course.

 

[ZpackSux]

My whole life is a conflict of interest since it's against my interest to work..

But I do it anyways...

It's just a job!

 

[aubieRx]

I think once you start studying drugs that you may change your mind about using pure diet and exercise. For instance, my body produces way too much cholesterol. Diet and exercise will not control it, so I take a statin in addition to watching my cholesterol intake.

.

on those commercials for the cholesterol drugs they mention that high cholesterol can have a genetic component.

They show those active, fit looking people and then display their cholesterol levels (which are high).

I think there are some rotten drugs out there but I think that overall drugs help more than they hurt people. I mean, if it wasn't for antibiotics a lot of people would die!

 

[no-see-um]

on those commercials for the cholesterol drugs they mention that high cholesterol can have a genetic component.

They show those active, fit looking people and then display their cholesterol levels (which are high).

I think there are some rotten drugs out there but I think that overall drugs help more than they hurt people. I mean, if it wasn't for antibiotics a lot of people would die!

Antibiotics must be handled with care, though, by not being overprescribed and, when taken by patient, to stay the course.

I'm personally for prevention and nutrition and all for limiting the amount of drugs I put into my body. I am not a big fan of medications. But I do realize that they are sometimes essential, and I do believe that patients ought to have access to such forms of treatment.

The original poster pointed out that diet and exercise have the potential of lowering cholesterol. While agreeing with such a broad outlook, I think we must look at the actual patient rather than to form a restrictive opinion based on the drugs themselves irrespective of the patient's needs. What about if the patient is disabled and can't go running in the mornings?

Yes, preventitive measures are important, but not everyone is able to prevent their conditions ad infinitum. People get older and we must be thankful that there are drugs to alleviate suffering.

 

[yatzek]

You may not need to take cholesterol lowering medications, or anti-hypertensive drugs, if you control your diet, and exercise properly.

i see your point and i agree but this is a bad example... people synthesize more cholesterol than they eat, the problem is with the receptors, and being fat doesnt neccessarily mean bad cholesterol and vice versa... eating right and exercising for these people wont really help, only drugs will

 

[aubieRx]

the drugs that bother me the most are the ones that affect the mind or the ones that can get people addicted.

I think that most of the children who have "ADD" are in reality just busy little kids who want to move around more than their more sedate peers! I also fail to believe that the millions on antidepressants have serious chemical imbalances in their brains

(could there be that many malfunctioning brains out there? I suppose there are millions of people with poor eyesight who must get corrective lenses so who knows. It seems odd that there are that many malfunctioning eyes)

another thing that is bothersome to meare the number of drug commercials on TV. I think the doctor should prescribe a drug if and only if it is needed after careful analysis. The tv commercials give me the feeling that people are watching them, deciding they have a problem themselves, and asking/pressuring the doctor for the drug.

 

[no-see-um]

I think that most of the children who have "ADD" are in reality just busy little kids who want to move around more than their more sedate peers!

another thing that is bothersome to meare the number of drug commercials on TV. I think the doctor should prescribe a drug if and only if it is needed after careful analysis. The tv commercials give me the feeling that people are watching them, deciding they have a problem themselves, and asking/pressuring the doctor for the drug.

I agree with the above...

ADD surely appears to be over-diagnosed these days..

And drug commercials ought to be regulated. Advertising to the patient to lust after their product which could potentially harm them, is not fair to the patient or the healthcare industry- doctors and pharmacists who know better. In that respect, it would be great if America would adopt the same type of law that Canada has which bans tv commercials for prescription medications.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I'm hesitant to join this discussion because I'm not a pharmacy student yet, but as a patient...

I see the role of the pharmacist as making sure that the drug prescribed to me by my physician is safe for me, dosed appropriately, and that I know how to use it. I think pharmacists are by far the experts on dosing, therapeutic equivalents and drug interactions and play a very important role.

If I want advice on alternative therapies, nutrition, exercise - I'll ask my doctor or the pharmacist. I don't want the pharmacist, when I come in to pick up my prescription, to start up a conversation about weight loss, my diet or whatever.

In my nonprofessional opinion, that's overstepping. Someone mentioned that doctors usually prescribe diet and exercise first. I can vouch for that personally. Or, if the patient has a long history of yo-yo dieting and noncompliance with diet and exercise regimens, drugs may be used earlier.

I just don't think it's the pharmacist's role to get in the middle of the doctor/patient relationship, unless safety is an issue (dosage, interactions, etc). Or unless the pharmacist has been asked. Maybe I'm wrong... I'm sure you'll tell me if you think so!



Also, I have a very serious problem with discussion about the overuse of anti-depressants. There is enough stigma against mental illness and mental disorders and I think this type of talk contributes to that stigma.

Someone's use of the analogy of eyeglasses is apt, I think. Would you tell someone with poor vision to just sit closer to the front of the room, refrain from driving at night, or whatever just so they could avoid getting corrective lenses? Of course not!

Chemical imbalances and poor vision are really not that different. Someone with poor vision has a structural or functional problem with their eye. Chemical imbalances in the brain are functional problems as well (with NT reuptake or whatever). People wear glasses in public all the time but people are afraid to admit that they take antidepressants. Why? The stigma! That needs to stop.

As someone said, millions of people need glasses. Millions of people have thyroid imbalances and need daily, lifetime thyroid hormone (every female over 25 in my family does). Or another example - millions of people take ibuprofen or acetaminophen multiple times weekly. Lots of people with back pain could probably do better if they lost some weight, stretched daily and
exercised more than once a year. Yet there is no stigma attached to buying Advil, and Tom Cruise isn't yelling at Matt Lauer about overuse of Tylenol.

So, it's not inconceivable that that millions of people could have chemical imbalances in the brain. For those that do, there are alternatives to drugs - exercise helps some, therapy helps others, but antidepressants are a valuable option, and I would like to see the stigma against their use ended.

 

[aubieRx]

Also, I have a very serious problem with discussion about the overuse of anti-depressants. There is enough stigma against mental illness and mental disorders and I think this type of talk contributes to that stigma.

.

My opinion on this issue goes both ways (i was the originator of the eyeglasses analogy).

I do not think that questioning the necessity of the antidepressants means you are trying to stigmatize people with depression. I think it is done more out of concern for the well-being of the people on the drugs. Or concern for a society in which some people feel the need to medicate themselves with powerful drugs when they get sad.

I have known people who have gone on these sorts of drugs and they are sometimes do not help/make things worse. Besides, there is evidence that children taking these drugs end up even more suicidal (these sorts of stories pop up in newspapers).

 

[All4MyDaughter]

My opinion on this issue goes both ways (i was the originator of the eyeglasses analogy).

I do not think that questioning the necessity of the antidepressants means you are trying to stigmatize people with depression. I think it is done more out of concern for the well-being of the people on the drugs. Or concern for a society in which some people feel the need to medicate themselves with powerful drugs when they get sad.

I have known people who have gone on these sorts of drugs and they are sometimes do not help/make things worse. Besides, there is evidence that children taking these drugs end up even more suicidal (these sorts of stories pop up in newspapers).

Anyone for whom a drug doesn't work should seek alternative therapy.
And children on antidepressants is a whole other topic.

I don't think that you, or anyone who "questions the necessity of antidepressants" is TRYING to stigmatize anyone intentionally. But I believe that saying things like "some people feel the need to medicate themselves with powerful drugs when they get sad" both minimizes the struggles of people with depression and contributes to the existing stigma attached to mental illness. The effect may be unintended, but it is real.

Being depressed and being sad - completely different things. I was sad on Friday when I got a D on an Organic II test. Before I began antidepressant therapy I was at times so depressed that I couldn't get out of bed in the morning. After I had my child I was so crippled by PPD and anxiety that I couldn't even hold her or help my husband take care of her.

I've been on antidepressants for almost three years. I had to switch drugs after my daughter was born because of my changed symptoms. Am I still sad sometimes? Of course. Do I have the debilitating symptoms of depression anymore? No.

I truly don't think that anyone who takes antidepressants does so lightly, or because they can't handle a little sadness. First of all, they are expensive. Second of all, there are side effects (increased/decreased appetite, sexual side effects, etc.). Third, there's a stigma. People will judge you. The remark you made earlier about taking powerful meds just because you are sad, is judgemental, and here's why:

It's imposibble for you or me to assess whether someone else is depressed. We aren't psychiatrists, psychologists or mind readers. Most people who are depressed are excellent at hiding it. I know I was. My husband knew, but I made excuses for missing work and generally covered things up well. Even my mother, who is a doctoral level clinical psychologist didn't know. Because I didn't go around telling people how bad I was feeling. Unless people talk to others, people often don't have a clue. Why do you think people are often so shocked after someone commits suicide - because they didn't even know something was wrong with the person! Because they never talked about it, probably because they were embarrassed.

When we look at someone and say, "that person doesn't REALLY need to take that Prozac", we are substituting our opinions and incomplete knowledge of somone else's brain chemistry and emotional state for the clinical judgement of a doctor or mental health professional. That's irresponsible and it DOES contribute to the well-known, negative public misconception of mental illness and mental disorders as weaknesses of character or bad coping skills. Until we get rid of this perception, people like me will feel the need to hide or minimize their illness and countless people will go untreated because they are too ashamed to admit they need help.

Anecdotally, just among the people I know - available treatment options for depression, anxiety and related disorders (and I'm including in those options medication and therapy) are if anything, UNDERutilized.

 

[JackBeanstalk]

I've considered pharmacy as a possible career option. However, I believe i may face a conflict of interest between my personal beliefs in what is best for the patient, and making money via selling drugs. I definitely believe that while drugs may be necessary for many medical conditions, they may (perhaps should) not be in many instances. You may not need to take cholesterol lowering medications, or anti-hypertensive drugs, if you control your diet, and exercise properly. However, with pharmacy being the lucrative field that it is, one may be strongly inclined to simply fulfill the prescription and make a profit.

Do you guys think that I could possibly resolve such a conflict? As a pharmacist, would I be able to advise patients on possible alternatives to drugs?

You are correct in alot people probably wouldn't need any anti-hypert. medication if they watch their diet and exercise, but whether they will be compliant or not is another issue. There are alot of guidelines out there to improve our health and prolong quality of life and often times we are the ones who dig our own graves by choosing the contradictory lifestyle. So you can put your reservation to rest because I see no conflict of interest in this issue. Part of being a pharmacist, you take on the role of a consultant for patients and other medical professionals, hence you are entitled to voice your opinion as such. The only conflict of interest that I see as a problem is if you are too radical in your personal belief and it severly skews your professional judgement.

 

[aubieRx]

I don't think that you, or anyone who "questions the necessity of antidepressants" is TRYING to stigmatize anyone intentionally. But I believe that saying things like "some people feel the need to medicate themselves with powerful drugs when they get sad" both minimizes the struggles of people with depression and contributes to the existing stigma attached to mental illness. The effect may be unintended, but it is real.

Being depressed and being sad - completely different things. I was sad on Friday when I got a D on an Organic II test. Before I began antidepressant therapy I was at times so depressed that I couldn't get out of bed in the morning. After I had my child I was so crippled by PPD and anxiety that I couldn't even hold her or help my husband take care of her.

I've been on antidepressants for almost three years. I had to switch drugs after my daughter was born because of my changed symptoms. Am I still sad sometimes? Of course. Do I have the debilitating symptoms of depression anymore? No.


It's imposibble for you or me to assess whether someone else is depressed. We aren't psychiatrists, psychologists or mind readers. Most people who are depressed are excellent at hiding it. I know I was. My husband knew, but I made excuses for missing work and generally covered things up well. Even my mother, who is a doctoral level clinical psychologist didn't know. Because I didn't go around telling people how bad I was feeling. Unless people talk to others, people often don't have a clue. Why do you think people are often so shocked after someone commits suicide - because they didn't even know something was wrong with the person! Because they never talked about it, probably because they were embarrassed.

When we look at someone and say, "that person doesn't REALLY need to take that Prozac", we are substituting our opinions and incomplete knowledge of somone else's brain chemistry and emotional state for the clinical judgement of a doctor or mental health professional. That's irresponsible and it DOES contribute to the well-known, negative public misconception of mental illness and mental disorders as weaknesses of character or bad coping skills. Until we get rid of this perception, people like me will feel the need to hide or minimize their illness and countless people will go untreated because they are too ashamed to admit they need help.

Anecdotally, just among the people I know - available treatment options for depression, anxiety and related disorders (and I'm including in those options medication and therapy) are if anything, UNDERutilized.

I have occasional bouts of depression (which is putting a stiff-upper-lip light spin on it 😉 )that I manage without the meds. I tried the meds a bit a few years ago but , like my friends who took them , found they made me feel strange. Also, I was never happy when I took the meds because I honestly worried what they were doing to my mind(hehe).

I've found exercise, good diet, religious faith and distractions helped me more. Exercise is particularly effective because it releases natural "feel good" chemicals.

I have heard some stories, like yours, of people who do ok with no problems on the meds. However, for every success story it seems like there are many more stories of people who really don't do well with the meds.

These cases warrant some concern about these drugs. Brook sheilds recently came out with her story of using the drugs for postpartum depression. I cannot remember what happened exactly but I believe she had suicidal symptoms after she quit taking the drugs.

But I would not go so far as to say the drugs are never any good because some people say that the drugs helped them. And you can't really argue with someone's honest assessment of how something made him feel since he is the only one who lives in his mind.

edit: and I do believe that some people are naturally (through no fault of their own) more susceptible to depression than others. It never means a person is weak.

 

[ZpackSux]

..

 

[ZpackSux]

SSRI and/or antidepressants can certainly save lives of some clinically depressed patients, no doubt. But it's way over prescribed. People don't get on SSRI because they are slightly sad and depressed?? I rather think that too many people get on SSRI because it's a quick fix to fight sadness and minor depression. Who doesn't get depressed once in a while? Most just work it off. But many would rather pop a prozac or 2 to feel better.

There was a time a few years back when Prozac was the #1 prescription $ drug in the US. You think it's warranted? Hell no.

And for many parents who allow Ritalin for their kids for ADHD.. oh never mind. 😡 😡

 

[aubieRx]

There was a time a few years back when Prozac was the #1 prescription $ drug in the US. You think it's warranted? Hell no.

And for many parents who allow Ritalin for their kids for ADHD.. oh never mind. 😡 😡

I'm glad an actual practicing pharmacist feels this way.

I am astounded how easily doctors are willing to give out the antidepressants. All you have to do is walk in once , claim to be depressed with (or in some cases without) sad puppy dog eyes, and you have yourself a prescription. Anybody can get a prescription to zoloft, prozac, paxil.......

I agree that a ton of people who are not severely depressed take them. I also think some people who actually are depressed do not benefit from them (due to side effects, etc).

I believe that most depression can be fought with cognitive behavioral therapy. You have to train yourself to new patterns of thinking. Its hard to get out of the rut that depression can place people into but its never impossible.....I think drugs should not be the first thing offered to a patient who says they are depressed.

As for the ADD or ADHD thing; i solemnly swear that no matter how hyper my children are I shall never put them on ritalin.

 

[ZpackSux]

I'm glad an actual practicing pharmacist feels this way.

I am astounded how easily doctors are willing to give out the antidepressants. All you have to do is walk in once , claim to be depressed with (or in some cases without) sad puppy dog eyes, and you have yourself a prescription. Anybody can get a prescription to zoloft, prozac, paxil.......

I agree that a ton of people who are not severely depressed take them. I also think some people who actually are depressed do not benefit from them (due to side effects, etc).

I believe that most depression can be fought with cognitive behavioral therapy. You have to train yourself to new patterns of thinking. Its hard to get out of the rut that depression can place people into but its never impossible.....I think drugs should not be the first thing offered to a patient who says they are depressed.

As for the ADD or ADHD thing; i solemnly swear that no matter how hyper my children are I shall never put them on ritalin.

at least we agree on something.

 

[aubieRx]

at least we agree on something.

I wasn't aware we disagreed on anything yet....

have we had disagreements in the past *lol* did I knick you with a stray snipe in the spanish language thread? If so i apologize

 

[ZpackSux]

I wasn't aware we disagreed on anything yet....

have we had disagreements in the past *lol* did I knick you with a stray snipe in the spanish language thread? If so i apologize

I have to disagree that you sniped at me in the spanish thread.. or..did you?

 

[aubieRx]

I have to disagree that you sniped at me in the spanish thread.. or..did you?

probably not.

we had a brief moment of tension over IZ vs the marmoset. But that has been relegated to the annals of history

 

[bananaface]

As far as overuse of SSRIs goes, remember they are prescribed not only for depression but for anxiety and mood swings. Alot of people have generalized anxiety disorder, panic attacks, anxiety associated with cessation of marijuana, or mood swings associated with smoking cessation. When you work with patients who have used hardcore drugs you will notice that the incidence of use of both antidepressants and psych meds goes waaaay up.

People who have a hard time believing that many people are messed up must have grown up pretty sheltered.

 

[ZpackSux]

As far as overuse of SSRIs goes, remember they are prescribed not only for depression but for anxiety and mood swings. Alot of people have generalized anxiety disorder, panic attacks, anxiety associated with cessation of marijuana, or mood swings associated with smoking cessation. When you work with patients who have used hardcore drugs you will notice that the incidence of use of both antidepressants and psych meds goes waaaay up.

People who have a hard time believing that many people are messed up must have grown up pretty sheltered.

And people who believe popping a pill is the answer to coping with being messed up is?

 

[bananaface]

And people who believe popping a pill is the answer to coping with being messed up is?

Is that sentence supposed to make sense? 😕

 

[ZpackSux]

Is that sentence supposed to make sense? 😕

It do be.

 

[aubieRx]

i read it as a question that wasn't yet answered

"yada yada yada ...is?"

and the person who read the sentence was supposed to come up with an answer for what that was

 

[ZpackSux]

i read it as a question that wasn't yet answered

"yada yada yada ...is?"

and the person who read the sentence was supposed to come up with an answer for what that was

👍

 

[njac]

I'm glad an actual practicing pharmacist feels this way.

I am astounded how easily doctors are willing to give out the antidepressants. All you have to do is walk in once , claim to be depressed with (or in some cases without) sad puppy dog eyes, and you have yourself a prescription. Anybody can get a prescription to zoloft, prozac, paxil.......

I agree that a ton of people who are not severely depressed take them. I also think some people who actually are depressed do not benefit from them (due to side effects, etc).

I believe that most depression can be fought with cognitive behavioral therapy. You have to train yourself to new patterns of thinking. Its hard to get out of the rut that depression can place people into but its never impossible.....I think drugs should not be the first thing offered to a patient who says they are depressed.

As for the ADD or ADHD thing; i solemnly swear that no matter how hyper my children are I shall never put them on ritalin.

Despite being on various anti depressants off and on for the last 4 years - I agree. Once I finish school I'll go back to the CBT route, but for a lot of people it isn't feasible solely due to the TIME involved. About 2 years ago a therapist and I started down that route, but I was in his office once a week because I was stressed out and overwhelmed - adding an extra hour or two of reading and then writing down all of my inappropriate etc behavioral patterns just took up more time than I had. Yeah my Wellbutrin twice a day is a shortcut - but at least now I can get out of bed and go to work or school and not have the added stress of"oh god I'm going to fail my classes because I am a lazy bum" or "oh **** I'm going to lose my job" and then have that send me on another week long can't get out of bed binge.

(Plus I lost 15lbs the first 3 weeks on wellbutrin. that stuff is the ****!)

 

[bananaface]

It do be.

What about your doobie? 🙄

 

[VCU07]

I've considered pharmacy as a possible career option. However, I believe i may face a conflict of interest between my personal beliefs in what is best for the patient, and making money via selling drugs. I definitely believe that while drugs may be necessary for many medical conditions, they may (perhaps should) not be in many instances. You may not need to take cholesterol lowering medications, or anti-hypertensive drugs, if you control your diet, and exercise properly. However, with pharmacy being the lucrative field that it is, one may be strongly inclined to simply fulfill the prescription and make a profit.

Do you guys think that I could possibly resolve such a conflict? As a pharmacist, would I be able to advise patients on possible alternatives to drugs?

I agree with a previous poster. You may change your mind once you actually study the drugs and the disease states they are meant to help. You may want to tell someone to change their diet and exercise, which it perfectly fine, but there are many individuals who produce too much cholesterol and that cannot be treated with just diet and exercise. Another example is DM...watching diet and exercising will help, but individuals who have damaged beta cells or some other etiology will not be helped unless drugs are used. Also, take into consideration that no matter what career you choose money will be the bottom line. Medicine is an example where physicians can help society, but when it comes down to it they still have to make money to survive. Instead of selling drugs they sell their services (order more lab tests, schedule followups, etc...). Finally, as a pharmacist be aware that while counseling patients on alternative regimens if ok, it is not ok to override a physicians drug choice unless you have all the relavent information on that patient, which more than likely you will not have (unless your in a hospital setting). If you recommend an herbal medication for blood circulation disorders instead of say plavix and that patient has a MI then you are at fault.

 

[aubieRx]

Despite being on various anti depressants off and on for the last 4 years - I agree. Once I finish school I'll go back to the CBT route, but for a lot of people it isn't feasible solely due to the TIME involved. About 2 years ago a therapist and I started down that route, but I was in his office once a week because I was stressed out and overwhelmed - adding an extra hour or two of reading and then writing down all of my inappropriate etc behavioral patterns just took up more time than I had. Yeah my Wellbutrin twice a day is a shortcut - but at least now I can get out of bed and go to work or school and not have the added stress of"oh god I'm going to fail my classes because I am a lazy bum" or "oh **** I'm going to lose my job" and then have that send me on another week long can't get out of bed binge.

(Plus I lost 15lbs the first 3 weeks on wellbutrin. that stuff is the ****!)

I sometimes feel that human beings were not designed to sit in cubicles/ wherever it is that most humans happen to sit for long periods of time. We are (well alot of people are) somewhat athletic creatures and I think that without an outlet for such things (running, hiking, swimming, etc) some people place this added "energy" into their thinking processes where it can occasionally do some damage.

I know this doesn't sound terribly scientific but oh well 🙂 but try and remember our ancestors chased animals through the woods with sticks on an almost daily basis.😉 Even in relatively recent times people spent long hours out in fields plowing or out by the stream washing/plucking chickens.

Most people did not have a lot of excess sitting time to ponder their existences/trials/wouldabeensshouldabeens

the busy kids with "ADD" probably would have become top notch hunters back in the day

 

[njac]

I sometimes feel that human beings were not designed to sit in cubicles/ wherever it is that most humans happen to sit for long periods of time. We are (well alot of people are) somewhat athletic creatures and I think that without an outlet for such things (running, hiking, swimming, etc) some people place this added "energy" into their thinking processes where it can occasionally do some damage.

I know this doesn't sound terribly scientific but oh well 🙂 but try and remember our ancestors chased animals through the woods with sticks on an almost daily basis.😉 Even in relatively recent times people spent long hours out in fields plowing or out by the stream washing/plucking chickens.

Most people did not have a lot of excess sitting time to ponder their existences/trials/wouldabeensshouldabeens

the busy kids with "ADD" probably would have become top notch hunters back in the day

very, very true. I spend lots of time shovelling horse poop. Therapeutic emotionally and physically. But still not enough to get me out of bed every morning.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Despite being on various anti depressants off and on for the last 4 years - I agree. Once I finish school I'll go back to the CBT route, but for a lot of people it isn't feasible solely due to the TIME involved. About 2 years ago a therapist and I started down that route, but I was in his office once a week because I was stressed out and overwhelmed - adding an extra hour or two of reading and then writing down all of my inappropriate etc behavioral patterns just took up more time than I had. Yeah my Wellbutrin twice a day is a shortcut - but at least now I can get out of bed and go to work or school and not have the added stress of"oh god I'm going to fail my classes because I am a lazy bum" or "oh **** I'm going to lose my job" and then have that send me on another week long can't get out of bed binge.

(Plus I lost 15lbs the first 3 weeks on wellbutrin. that stuff is the ****!)

I'm interested to hear more about CBT - I really (really) hated psychotherapy but I understand CBT is somewhat different. I took Wellbutrin. It was awesome. I am thinking about switching back to it because I don't like the side effects of the Effexor I've been taking.

 

[UTstdnt]

Any opinions on the conflict of interest regarding prescriptions? The official policy for all healthcare as far as I know is that no contribition/gift can be given by a company in exchange for a referral unless it is a nominal, token gift (in the area of $5 or less). The only company type exempt from this policy is drug companies who can and do give just about anything to physicians in exchange for prescriptions. What's up with that??? The lobbyists are getting their job done, I guess. It doesn't seem to be in the best interest of the patient though.

 

[UTstdnt]

People who have a hard time believing that many people are messed up must have grown up pretty sheltered.

Sorry but the last thing I would call my upbringing is sheltered and I have a hard time believing that many people are messed up, or leastways that the answer to that many people's troubles is to be medicated. I don't mean to minimize the troubles of the severely depressed. There is no doubt in my mind, however, that these drugs are overprescribed. Anyone else hear about 3 year olds that are being put on antidepressants??

 

[bananaface]

Sorry but the last thing I would call my upbringing is sheltered and I have a hard time believing that many people are messed up, or leastways that the answer to that many people's troubles is to be medicated. I don't mean to minimize the troubles of the severely depressed. There is no doubt in my mind, however, that these drugs are overprescribed. Anyone else hear about 3 year olds that are being put on antidepressants??

Narcotics are overprescribed too. But, that does not mean that there is not a significant portion of users which needs them for pain control. You have to go case by case and not put everyone into the same general category.