Pharmacy fraternities

[GoldfishPharmD]

LOLLLL WOW buddy. Can you not understand the SIMPLE...EASSSSY... concept of what i was trying to get across?
i am not correlating how bad both situations were. I was not saying we are a group of people who are in dire oppression against others. I was ONLY trying to state how people are influenced by what they see and what people tell them. which results in generalizations that ALL orgs. are like 'this and that.' Also, people should stand up for what they believe. Can't these general concepts pertain to these two that were mentioned, along with MANY others I could have made an example of. I apologize. Perhaps I should have made a more vague scenario to your comfort.

Um, to all the people that have struggled for their civil rights, I doubt they would like you comparing the two, and this so called "struggle" that fraternities have. I think we're all pretty much intelligent people here for you to get your point across without using such an extreme example.

I'm sorry, but I don't feel fraternities are that serious. If you like it, fine. Different strokes for different folks. However, no one forces you to be in it, so if it's such a problem for you what people think about it, you do have the freedom to not be in it. If it's that important for you to stay in it, then shut up and ignore what people think your organization is about OR get out and do something about it and show your organization is different. Telling people on an internet forum that have already formed an opinion about pharmacy fraternities isn't really doing much for you. I'm not going to sit up in my bed at night worrying about you and your fraternity.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[RxMang]

Um, to all the people that have struggled for their civil rights, I doubt they would like you comparing the two, and this so called "struggle" that fraternities have. I think we're all pretty much intelligent people here for you to get your point across without using such an extreme example.

I'm sorry, but I don't feel fraternities are that serious. If you like it, fine. Different strokes for different folks. However, no one forces you to be in it, so if it's such a problem for you what people think about it, you do have the freedom to not be in it. If it's that important for you to stay in it, then shut up and ignore what people think your organization is about OR get out and do something about it and show your organization is different. Telling people on an internet forum that have already formed an opinion about pharmacy fraternities isn't really doing much for you. I'm not going to sit up in my bed at night worrying about you and your fraternity.

obviously you don't get the point since you're misconstruing things.
lol no use beating a dead horse. you can go ahead and do your whole element of superiority against me ("internet" excuse, "waste my time" excuse)

 

[GoldfishPharmD]

obviously you don't get the point since you're misconstruing things.
lol no use beating a dead horse. you can go ahead and do your whole element of superiority against me ("internet" excuse, "waste my time" excuse)

k, bye.

 

[Caverject]

I've read a few old threads regarding pharmaceutical frats but I thought I'd try and get a refreshed opinion. Would you say these frats (not the honor ones) are worth joining? I have heard that some frats have a whole hazing/pledging process you have to go through just to join, or that some frats were primarily focused on social life.

Is this "pledging" process similar to undergraduate pledging? The whole reason I avoided that scene as an undergrad was because I didn't really feel like being put through time-consuming tests in order to be accepted into a group :/ (just a personal preference). For example, one sorority would make its pledges run laps, or endure constant ridicule about their body image because it "made their sisterly ties stronger"...or something. I assume pledging will be different in professional school?

I also read that one of the benefits to joining a pharmacy frat is that they often pass down old class notes and exams. This is similar to what I've heard about undergrad frats. Is this true?

The school website does not say much past the typical "this frat has been around for _____ years and is around to promote ___________ and _______."

It'd be great to hear your opinions . Thanks in advance!

I've been involved in a pharmacy fraternity since 2005. I will never regret it and I still find it rewarding. Most if not all pharmacy fraternities do not haze. Whatever your thoughts are of undergrad fraternities/sororities, they are completely different with professional fraternities. Pledging and chapters are different on a school by school bases but they are all professional in business.

 

[confettiflyer]

Good point. I had undergrad profs not release our exams after we looked at them to see our mistakes. I suppose they would know (and not care) about it in pharm school. Seems like everyone is all about sharing, too. So if that is the case, then everyone benefits. I guess it would be equivalent to people "studying together" to get the answers.

Yeah we were on the competitive curve in undergrad, so your wanting to see others succeed was limited to your social circle--too much collaboration, and your grades went down as the overall average went up.

At my school now (Rx), there's a more collaborative atmosphere. But old habits persist...we have about 5-6 major study groups/circles (comprised of 7-10 people each, that i know about, there could be more) that collaborate on notes, cases, and exams. Our primary motivation/responsibilities are toward each other, but now and again we swap notes with other groups or individuals. There are a few that are left out in the cold, but that's life.

My study group is currently weighing whether to release the study notes/guides we produced last year to members of the underclass. They're pretty damn good, but some part of us wants them to suffer like we did

So yeah that's my advice to you...find a way to gain access to previous years' material and/or get a solid study group/collaborative going. It'll make your time more efficient.

 

[b1234]

it was my understanding that certain fraternities at my local university pass around homework solution manuals (and actually have a whole 'library' of solutions), which is technically cheating, no? additionally, i'm sure there are some ethical issues to studying from old exams (old being, the previous year or so) if they are from a class where the professor re-uses exams. from reading certain articles and my own experience, i know that there are professors who believe that having access to exams you are not supposed to have, is considered cheating.

Well it looks like other people more or less gave the same reply back that I was going to - for the most part using public knowledge is not cheating. So long as you are doing your own work on non collaborative assignments and giving credit where it is due in writing (and other cases where appropriate), you are not cheating.

There are very few exams you are not supposed to have - mainly only ones that have not been given yet.

 

[Argentium]

Well it looks like other people more or less gave the same reply back that I was going to - for the most part using public knowledge is not cheating. So long as you are doing your own work on non collaborative assignments and giving credit where it is due in writing (and other cases where appropriate), you are not cheating.

There are very few exams you are not supposed to have - mainly only ones that have not been given yet.

Policy at my school is that if you have old labs or exams that were not given out by the teacher, then it is considered cheating.

 

[b1234]

Policy at my school is that if you have old labs or exams that were not given out by the teacher, then it is considered cheating.

That's an explicitly stated policy at a specific institution...

I'm guessing it only covers old exams and old labs given at the school you are at in that particular course? If not...

 

[DrPepsi]

I'm sure some do, but not all. Kappa Psi actually values sobriety and alcohol is prohibited at many events (at least for my chapter) and their funding is not allowed to be used for the purchase/promotion of alcohol in any way.

Same goes with Phi Delta Chi, except alcohol is allowed at "non fraternity functions".

 

[desklamp]

How so? If it's released, then a professor should have no expectation that it would NOT be distributed. Any material that is public/released, I would save and pass down to selected under-years. As a professor, it's your responsibility to protect the exam; if you don't, then it's your responsibility to create new questions rendering the old exams useless. Or, better yet, release the questions yourself to everyone while making new questions, removing the competitive advantage.

I had access to legit old exams (ie not stolen/illicitly obtained) in undergrad and made such material available to my friends, I don't see any problem. In fact, as a student, it would be irresponsible of you to NOT seek such material out.

I'm not saying that if someone had an old exam drop into their lap, that I would look down upon them for using it (i mean who wouldn't haha). But I do know that "having access to old exams that you shouldn't have access to" which I assume means the professor himself did not make them available, was written into my undergrad code of ethics as a violation. I think professors are starting to catch on now, as during my Masters program, they said we were no longer allowed to take our exams home (to see what we got wrong, we had to make an appointment) the reason being that sometimes the exams were very similar year to year, and people had been passing the old exams around. The professor did not sound very pleased at the idea lol.

 

[b1234]

I'm not saying that if someone had an old exam drop into their lap, that I would look down upon them for using it (i mean who wouldn't haha). But I do know that "having access to old exams that you shouldn't have access to" which I assume means the professor himself did not make them available, was written into my undergrad code of ethics as a violation. I think professors are starting to catch on now, as during my Masters program, they said we were no longer allowed to take our exams home (to see what we got wrong, we had to make an appointment) the reason being that sometimes the exams were very similar year to year, and people had been passing the old exams around. The professor did not sound very pleased at the idea lol.

Sounds kinda like a cop out excuse to me...

What is considered "that you shouldn't have access to"? Where do you draw the line? Are old exams really that different from example problems in textbooks or various other sources?

IMO, the only reason using old exams to study from would be ethically "wrong" is if you have some sort of explicit agreement not to. (Assuming no extraordinary circumstances like it was stolen material etc.) And yes, I realize at your particular institution there is an explicit agreement not to use old tests - I still think it's a "dumb" rule. There are so many potential cases that are borderline violations or that could be seen as violations when in fact the "guilty" party did not know it...

 

[desklamp]

Sounds kinda like a cop out excuse to me...

What is considered "that you shouldn't have access to"? Where do you draw the line? Are old exams really that different from example problems in textbooks or various other sources?

IMO, the only reason using old exams to study from would be ethically "wrong" is if you have some sort of explicit agreement not to. (Assuming no extraordinary circumstances like it was stolen material etc.) And yes, I realize at your particular institution there is an explicit agreement not to use old tests - I still think it's a "dumb" rule. There are so many potential cases that are borderline violations or that could be seen as violations when in fact the "guilty" party did not know it...

I'm sure what is "ethical" is subjective to the professor of each course, and you're right it is really hard to know where to draw the line. Honestly, the only reason this kind of stuff would bother me personally is if a portion of the class got access to something (an old exam, an old exam with solutions, etc) that gave them a significant competitive edge over the rest of the class, when the class was curved. Especially if said portion of the class based their success purely off this "edge" rather than their understanding of the subject matter.

I'll use a personal example. A friend of mine failed a class and had to retake it. The professor of that class did not post hw or test solutions online anywhere, but would email them out and also did not change the exams that much from year to year. Therefore, my friend had access to the previous year tests and solutions when he retook the class the following year and shared them with his wait-til-the-last-minute-to-cram, adderall popping, study group. It is kind of the professor's fault for not totally altering the exams from year to year, but could you still consider this comparable to studying from textbook problems or from practice tests? :x

 

[b1234]

I'm sure what is "ethical" is subjective to the professor of each course, and you're right it is really hard to know where to draw the line. Honestly, the only reason this kind of stuff would bother me personally is if a portion of the class got access to something (an old exam, an old exam with solutions, etc) that gave them a significant competitive edge over the rest of the class, when the class was curved. Especially if said portion of the class based their success purely off this "edge" rather than their understanding of the subject matter.

I'll use a personal example. A friend of mine failed a class and had to retake it. The professor of that class did not post hw or test solutions online anywhere, but would email them out and also did not change the exams that much from year to year. Therefore, my friend had access to the previous year tests and solutions when he retook the class the following year and shared them with his wait-til-the-last-minute-to-cram, adderall popping, study group. It is kind of the professor's fault for not totally altering the exams from year to year, but could you still consider this comparable to studying from textbook problems or from practice tests? :x

Case like that, I'd call it more the prof's fault for being lazy... Although that's also one I'd call borderline...

Again, where do you draw the line? Does the prof have every student sign an NDA? I doubt it. What's stopping other past students from telling others what was on the homework, what will be on tests, saving their old homework etc.?

In most cases, experienced students usually have a pretty good idea of what to expect on most tests so it's not that hard to find sample problems that will be very similar to what your prof is going to test you on.

IMO policies such as that cause more problems than they solve. Better to have a prof that just makes exams sufficiently rigorous.

 

[DrPepsi]

Why do you guys even care? If they cheated their way through pharmacy school then they won't be able to pass any certification exams. It all evens out in the end.

 

[Farmercyst]

Same goes with Phi Delta Chi, except alcohol is allowed at "non fraternity functions".

Like reserving a site for your fraternity at homecoming and playing beer pong? Must not be very well enforced.

 

[DrPepsi]

Like reserving a site for your fraternity at homecoming and playing beer pong? Must not be very well enforced.

Please elaborate, all of our parties were at a members apartment.

 

[Ackj]

Maybe its because we're a smaller college or the fact that our PDC chapter is only a few years old, but I don't really see the big deal of it. If I want to be social, I'll talk to my class mates and if I want to drink with friends, I will. Pretty much everybody in the class gets the old exams from each other, so that's no big deal. I can do plenty of community service on my own. If I want Greek life, I'll eat a gyro or souvlaki.

 

[DrPepsi]

Maybe its because we're a smaller college or the fact that our PDC chapter is only a few years old, but I don't really see the big deal of it. If I want to be social, I'll talk to my class mates and if I want to drink with friends, I will. Pretty much everybody in the class gets the old exams from each other, so that's no big deal. I can do plenty of community service on my own. If I want Greek life, I'll eat a gyro or souvlaki.

Is there not a Kappa Psi or Kappa Epsilon chapter at your school? I can understand your point of view when it comes to small schools, I'll give you that.

 

[owlegrad]

Maybe its because we're a smaller college or the fact that our PDC chapter is only a few years old, but I don't really see the big deal of it. If I want to be social, I'll talk to my class mates and if I want to drink with friends, I will. Pretty much everybody in the class gets the old exams from each other, so that's no big deal. I can do plenty of community service on my own. If I want Greek life, I'll eat a gyro or souvlaki.

 

[Farmercyst]

Please elaborate, all of our parties were at a members apartment.

USC football homecoming. So, kind of a big deal for us. Local fraternity has pledges reserve their usual spot and enjoy homecoming's finest festivities. Pre-game food, and the beverage of their choice. In fraternity gear, celebrating greek life. I'm not saying their funneling, but it's hardly "only at non-fraternity events". They also do fundraising at clubs and have the occasional wine tasting rush event. I'm not saying it's animal-house style, everyone's plastered by the end of the night, but sobriety is also not the top of their priorities either.