Pharmacy labor supply and demand. How can everyone help?

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Rph888

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We all know that there is a large excess of Rph labor in today's economy. This will continue to get worse for years to come. Wages are already falling regionally and total income is dropping--less hours per rph.

How can each and every Rph and pharmacy student help alleviate this situation?

How can we educate young students to the fact that the good days of pharmacy labor are gone, never to return in today's economy?

I encounter far too many bright-eyed students--how can we let more people know the truth?

or is this all a dream, can nothing stop droves of students heading for a pharmd?

Thanks
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Truly, what I do to force the issue is to make passing comments to the Director/Asst. Director about not hiring new grads from new pharmacy schools. By not taking students for APPE's from the newer schools. If the new grads from the new schools can't get jobs, it will trickle back and eventually the school may close (or at least limit growth in class sizes).
 
Eat lunch.

Seriously, if every pharmacist took a lunch break (even a quick one), they'd be happier and would make less errors. And if everyone did it, the PDMs wouldn't be able to discourage it.
 
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Rph888 said:
I encounter far too many bright-eyed students--how can we let more people know the truth?

or is this all a dream, can nothing stop droves of students heading for a pharmd?
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They don't want to know the truth. I've tried talking about it to the P1s, some students interviewing, etc. But they all think they'll get a free bmw and $30k for signing up with a company. When I mention the big increase in pharmacy schools and graduates, they counter with "but so many more people take medicine now, and those baby boomers are going on medicare."

Seems the best thing you can do is just stay informed and you'll be ahead of the rest of them. Remember you don't have to outrun the lion, you only need to outrun the slowest member of your herd.
 
Ackj said:
Seems the best thing you can do is just stay informed and you'll be ahead of the rest of them. Remember you don't have to outrun the lion, you only need to outrun the slowest member of your herd.
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Also true with zombies. :thumbup:
 
owlegrad said:
Can't you just outrun zombies? :confused:
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Unfortunately not if you're into the latest in zombie cinema. But really, would anyone really make it out of a zombie attack? The sheer number of zombies alone... oi vey.
 
owlegrad said:
Can't you just outrun zombies? :confused:
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Haven't you seen Dawn of the Dead or whatever it's called. You eventually run out of places to go and the zombies gobble you up.

it's kindof analogous to the cvs sucks and job market threads. You think they're dead but they suddenly pop up again. I know that's a reach but whatevs I'm tired ;)

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Rph888 said:
We all know that there is a large excess of Rph labor in today's economy. This will continue to get worse for years to come. Wages are already falling regionally and total income is dropping--less hours per rph.

How can each and every Rph and pharmacy student help alleviate this situation?

How can we educate young students to the fact that the good days of pharmacy labor are gone, never to return in today's economy?

I encounter far too many bright-eyed students--how can we let more people know the truth?

or is this all a dream, can nothing stop droves of students heading for a pharmd?

Thanks
Click to expand...
I recommend all students drop out of school immediatly.
 
gtpmle said:
Unfortunately not if you're into the latest in zombie cinema. But really, would anyone really make it out of a zombie attack? The sheer number of zombies alone... oi vey.
Click to expand...

rxlea said:
Haven't you seen Dawn of the Dead or whatever it's called. You eventually run out of places to go and the zombies gobble you up.

it's kindof analogous to the cvs sucks and job market threads. You think they're dead but they suddenly pop up again. I know that's a reach but whatevs I'm tired ;)

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Ok, I am not the one comparing a zombie to a lion. You cannot outrun a lion, you could outrun a single zombie (any movie that says otherwise is wrong). Now if we are comparing a lion to a zombie attack, that is a little trickier. The lion will tire. Things eaten by lions do not become lions. Actually the whole comparison breaks down the more I think about it.

But my point was that you don't need to feed the slowest member of the herd to a zombie lion because you can just outrun it. I think. I am starting to get tired too.
 
owlegrad said:
Ok, I am not the one comparing a zombie to a lion. You cannot outrun a lion, you could outrun a single zombie (any movie that says otherwise is wrong). Now if we are comparing a lion to a zombie attack, that is a little trickier. The lion will tire. Things eaten by lions do not become lions. Actually the whole comparison breaks down the more I think about it.

But my point was that you don't need to feed the slowest member of the herd to a zombie lion because you can just outrun it. I think. I am starting to get tired too.
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I think the comparison was the act of running, not the lion. Either way, zombie attack or lion, you're screwed. Also, I don't think he was speaking in terms of a human vs. a lion; rather, a formidable prey (i.e. gazelle) vs. a lion. But then again, I have been staring at therapeutics all evening.

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rxlea said:
I think the comparison was the act of running, not the lion. Either way, zombie attack or lion, you're screwed. Also, I don't think he was speaking in terms of a human vs. a lion; rather, a formidable prey (i.e. gazelle) vs. a lion. But then again, I have been staring at therapeutics all evening.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk
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I'll reword it:

You don't have to be hVISA, you just have to make sure you aren't the isolate with the lowest MIC.
 
gtpmle said:
Unfortunately not if you're into the latest in zombie cinema. But really, would anyone really make it out of a zombie attack? The sheer number of zombies alone... oi vey.
Click to expand...

Seriously, wtf Resident Evil - stop with your fear mongering ideas of super fast mutant zombies!
 
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Have the APhA or ACPE or whoever the accrediting association for pharmacy schools is (I honestly don't know, ..funny, cuz that's how much of an impact they really have) put a cap on how many students a school can take per year. Limiting the amount of RPhs will keep wages high and hours plenty for pharmacists. The AMA does it with medical schools. Whoever the pharmacy association is should do it with pharmacy schools, instead of approving every school that wants to open up.
 
farmadiazepine said:
Have the APhA or ACPE or whoever the accrediting association for pharmacy schools is (I honestly don't know, ..funny, cuz that's how much of an impact they really have) put a cap on how many students a school can take per year. Limiting the amount of RPhs will keep wages high and hours plenty for pharmacists. The AMA does it with medical schools. Whoever the pharmacy association is should do it with pharmacy schools, instead of approving every school that wants to open up.
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ACPE is the accrediting body. There need to be higher standards for opening a pharmacy school -- AMA does a really good job at this for their medical students. At today's rate, anyone with the money can open one up and I'm sure quality is not standardized from one pharmacy school to another. Compare this to dental schools where they refuse to be ranked because each dental school accredited by the ADA teaches the same thing.

Either that or talk with directors of pharmacy to only hire people from reputable schools and not new schools out of nowhere. This will greatly limit the number of schools opening if said school has a reputation of their grads not getting their careers started.
 
I have been warning about the impending job shortage since 09. Everytime I post, students trolled me or outright think they know more than me. It is always the same bs like its the economy...., medicare, etc.

I gave up a while ago. They are the ones who will get eaten up. My job like many pharmacists around me are secure. It is our job to "lose" so to speak. They just have to wait for my sloppy seconds. It does suck knowing that my raises will be non existant but I make more than enough. I can always make more through investments.
 
farmadiazepine said:
Have the APhA or ACPE or whoever the accrediting association for pharmacy schools is (I honestly don't know, ..funny, cuz that's how much of an impact they really have) put a cap on how many students a school can take per year. Limiting the amount of RPhs will keep wages high and hours plenty for pharmacists. The AMA does it with medical schools. Whoever the pharmacy association is should do it with pharmacy schools, instead of approving every school that wants to open up.
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This sounds like a good idea, but how can we help? Send massive emails to the ACPE?
 
All4MyDaughter said:
Newsflash: The AMA doesn't accredit medical schools and has no control over whether they open or not.

One of the most often repeated myths on this forum...
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But why aren't they popping up everywhere? Would be just as good, if not better, of a money-grab as opening up a pharmacy school. I know people mention the residencies aren't increasing so that's another choke-point, but I don't think that would bother a for-profit school.
 
Ackj said:
But why aren't they popping up everywhere? Would be just as good, if not better, of a money-grab as opening up a pharmacy school. I know people mention the residencies aren't increasing so that's another choke-point, but I don't think that would bother a for-profit school.
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Because the AAMC strictly regulates new accreditation granting.
 
awval999 said:
Truly, what I do to force the issue is to make passing comments to the Director/Asst. Director about not hiring new grads from new pharmacy schools. By not taking students for APPE's from the newer schools. If the new grads from the new schools can't get jobs, it will trickle back and eventually the school may close (or at least limit growth in class sizes).
Click to expand...

Doubtful, and not very easy given the small world of pharmacy. Most directors have good professional/personal relationships with various faculty/staff at existing pharmacy schools, and these contacts continue as these persons invariably take up posts at newer schools.

I've found that directors are less concerned with the sheer market economics of oversupply (if anything, they're happy to spend less of their budget if it means being able to snag a high quality grad at a lower price point), than about the progression of pharmacy within their own institution. If taking APPE students and interviewing new grads from a larger pool enables them to cast a wider net for the candidate that best suits their institution, they're going to do it.
 
Ackj said:
But why aren't they popping up everywhere? Would be just as good, if not better, of a money-grab as opening up a pharmacy school. I know people mention the residencies aren't increasing so that's another choke-point, but I don't think that would bother a for-profit school.
Click to expand...

The cost to entry is much higher for a medical school. The difficulty of setting up two years of rotations, etc. Despite this, a number of new medical schools have opened in the last few years. Including one for-profit school. :shrug:
 
Change.org seems to do wonders when it comes to changing anything people don't like. Let's all start a petition to either raise the standards of admission to pharmacy school or lower the number of pharmacy schools opening up (even though they are already too much). This probably won't change anything but it's worth a try.
 
MShopes said:
Change.org seems to do wonders when it comes to changing anything people don't like. Let's all start a petition to either raise the standards of admission to pharmacy school or lower the number of pharmacy schools opening up (even though they are already too much). This probably won't change anything but it's worth a try.
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This is one of the more creative ideas I have heard on this issue. It sure beats suggesting things that are illegal/impossible. :thumbup:
 
owlegrad said:
This is one of the more creative ideas I have heard on this issue. It sure beats suggesting things that are illegal/impossible. :thumbup:
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Yea I have seen it changing things that would not be changed otherwise. It's a great way to connect all people together too.
 
I'm going on maternity leave. That's my contribution, you're welcome.
 
Can both of you wait 4 more years for me to finish pharmacy first? ^^^^ :D
 
There are 2 events that must take place to increase pharmacist demand. Closure of pharmacy schools and real estate expansion. I dont see either happening in next 10 years.

Another favorable scenario is creation of PA like pharmacist practitioner mid level provider. I dont see it happening.

Instead of hoping others to do something which you cant control, concentrate on what you can do to increase your chance of survival through this tough period...decade.

Do well in school, network...work more and get more education. Only the fittest will survive.
 
Its Z said:
There are 2 events that must take place to increase pharmacist demand. Closure of pharmacy schools and real estate expansion. I dont see either happening in next 10 years.

Another favorable scenario is creation of PA like pharmacist practitioner mid level provider. I dont see it happening.

Instead of hoping others to do something which you cant control, concentrate on what you can do to increase your chance of survival through this tough period...decade.

Do well in school, network...work more and get more education. Only the fittest will survive.
Click to expand...

thanks Z, i am working on school, networking. I fear the excess education part though...i think too many pharmacists will end up with mha/mba/pgy1-2

i was thinking more along the lines of how to get demand for the pharmd degree down...if every applicant knew the job outlook i think the # applications would fall sharply, closing some new, underfunded degree mills...just a hope/dream...
 
i thought it was a better idea to increase demand for pharmd's/pharmacy services... but eh what do i know?
 
So what you're saying is that I shouldn't aspire to be a Pharmacist?

(High school junior, very scared about the oversaturated market.)
 
Let America stop investing in wars and intervening when they are not needed, and let them stop giving money to other countries when they are already in debt....by saving that money, they can do some tax cuts, allowing people to have more money to spend, which in turn increases demand. Increasing demand increases jobs and workers and stimulates the economy. By that way, we can possibly have more jobs available.

Basic economics.
 
bacillus1 said:
Eat lunch.

Seriously, if every pharmacist took a lunch break (even a quick one), they'd be happier and would make less errors. And if everyone did it, the PDMs wouldn't be able to discourage it.
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Every people have to think about themselves how they want to be treated when they are in the same situation ? Then only humanity will serve in this world. If not precious life of many people may happen to leave their bodies!. So education is must for every one and humanity is a compulsory !
 
MShopes said:
Let America stop investing in wars and intervening when they are not needed, and let them stop giving money to other countries when they are already in debt....by saving that money, they can do some tax cuts, allowing people to have more money to spend, which in turn increases demand. Increasing demand increases jobs and workers and stimulates the economy. By that way, we can possibly have more jobs available.

Basic economics.
Click to expand...


America is a great nation, but corrupt politicians are destroying it. Never did I imagine I would see extreme poverty in America. 5 trillion dollars spent on wars in the last 10 years while there are countless homeless people living in their cars or living in tents? While there are 50 million Americans , including approximately 20 million children, who do not have enough money for the food, shelter, clothing, or even the medical care they need, and are forced to live in terrible circumstances?

It is so sad. It broke my heart when I saw those kids on a BBC report whose moms can not afford buying food for them, so they make "ketchup soup", that is ketchup in hot water, to satisfy their hunger. Americans will take the streets if that bull**** does not stop.
 
NAPLEXON said:
America is a great nation, but corrupt politicians are destroying it. Never did I imagine I would see extreme poverty in America. 5 trillion dollars spent on wars in the last 10 years while there are countless homeless people living in their cars or living in tents? While there are 50 million Americans , including approximately 20 million children, who do not have enough money for the food, shelter, clothing, or even the medical care they need, and are forced to live in terrible circumstances?
Click to expand...

Uh, 1/6 of Americans are living in "terrible circumstances"? Compared to what? 50 million is the statistic I've heard for no health insurance, not abject poverty...

It is so sad. It broke my heart when I saw those kids on a BBC report whose moms can not afford buying food for them, so they make "ketchup soup", that is ketchup in hot water, to satisfy their hunger. Americans will take the streets if that bull**** does not stop.
Click to expand...

To play devil's advocate, I saw how those people spend what money they do get. They'd use the ketchup soup / sandwich (ketchup between saltine crackers) story on me. But right after their welfare check came in, I could see spending at the smoke shop & the liquor store...

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xtsukiyox said:
Uh, 1/6 of Americans are living in "terrible circumstances"? Compared to what? 50 million is the statistic I've heard for no health insurance, not abject poverty...



To play devil's advocate, I saw how those people spend what money they do get. They'd use the ketchup soup / sandwich (ketchup between saltine crackers) story on me. But right after their welfare check came in, I could see spending at the smoke shop & the liquor store...

Sent from my SPH-M900 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

there are reasons why so many poor people are smoking, drinking, and/or using drugs. Mental health care, including substance abuse social services, needs a makeover. It's easy to pass judgment when we know nothing about the situation. The problem is, is that the government tries to alleviate the symptoms of an underlying problem and they aren't very successful.

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rxlea said:
there are reasons why so many poor people are smoking, drinking, and/or using drugs. Mental health care, including substance abuse social services, needs a makeover. It's easy to pass judgment when we know nothing about the situation. The problem is, is that the government tries to alleviate the symptoms of an underlying problem and they aren't very successful.

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Click to expand...


It is FAR too easy to pass judgment on "those people."

Sigh.

I guess it's about time for another "we hate the poor" thread.
 
awval999 said:
You my friend, should aspire to something else, but don't worry, you'll do great, you're already thinking about your future!
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I am very saddened by your advice.
Do you know how saturated the job market is right now?
Like, are there two pharmacists for each job opening? Three?
 
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