Pharmacy Over-supply??

[confettiflyer]

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The notion of current/future "over-supply" of pharmacists:

1) A very ridiculous notion.

2) Usually comes from the mind of the "undecided" pre-health student(s), who is dearly worried about which sector of health care has the most stable job security incorporated with flexibility (i.e. anything outside the MD's adventures).

3) In the actual presence of such a notion, it is usually regionally driven. Obvious solution = go after the job 2 that is 500 miles away from your region. Say what? Can't relocate? This would be a good time to drink that your hot cup of coffee.

Summary? If you are sticking your nose into any direct patient-related health care profession, worrying about getting no job in the future is simply a wonderful invention of an additional obstacle towards achieving your professional goals. No more, no less.

If you are going into any administrative sector of the health care (eg corporate pharmacy), then you should be a little worried because of the economy or rather, have to step up your game as a top notch.

If you don't agree with me, consider a PhD in Nursing. Or would it make you feel better if it was noted as NursD?

And of course, with all due respects attached👍

dude, your post is somewhat nonsensical and superfluous. ever hear of "clear and concise?" and i dunno about you, but i've never heard the "hot coffee" idiom.

and what does getting a DNP have to do with anything?

feel free to believe what you want...but when you're struggling to find that easy retail job in a primo location and you expected a non-float position to fall into your lap, i probably won't be around to say "i told you so."

 

[Electrode]

dude, your post is somewhat nonsensical and superfluous. ever hear of "clear and concise?" and i dunno about you, but i've never heard the "hot coffee" idiom.

and what does getting a DNP have to do with anything?

feel free to believe what you want...but when you're struggling to find that easy retail job in a primo location and you expected a non-float position to fall into your lap, i probably won't be around to say "i told you so."

What I was saying is that worrying that you won't get a job after getting your PharmD is almost impossible, all things being equal. If you think your region has a surplus of your likes, you should consider relocating to another that still needs your likes. One way or another, you will end up getting the job -- even though certain factors are subject to cause some changes.

And don't worry about me. I already have a reserved spot. I just have 8 years time limit from Fall of '08 to get the PharmD or they'll toss me aside. I'm a living proof that sign on bonuses will still exist in the future. It's what I always called stocked up blessing🙂 Yes, there is hope. Don't let the "career mouth-crashers" convince you otherwise.

If you think they are right, do something else. Nursing is always there as an alternative.😉

 

[Jack555]

Sorry. I would have responded to this much sooner but I was too busy getting into pharmacy school and building my resume.

As for that "if you don't want to know don't click on the thread" comment, that's just really bad. That's just as bad as me saying - if you have more faith in Australian economists and their negative criticism on the American economy, then study pharmacy elsewhere - not the U.S.

Austrian, not Australian 😀 and there arent really austrian economists in Austria anymore. Its a school of thought.


I'm just saying, why go into a thread and complain about what the people are discussing. If you don't like it you don't have to be a part of the thread. IMO this is the most interesting thread on SDN right now.

 

[Jdario86]

Austrian, not Australian 😀 and there arent really austrian economists in Austria anymore. Its a school of thought.


I'm just saying, why go into a thread and complain about what the people are discussing. If you don't like it you don't have to be a part of the thread. IMO this is the most interesting thread on SDN right now.

Wow. You should consider economics as an alternative career to pharmacy because it's apparent you know much about economics and not alot about pharmacy.

I think you need to be more concerned with getting accepted into pharmacy school first then reading up on Austrian school of thought. good luck to yah!

 

[confettiflyer]

What I was saying is that worrying that you won't get a job after getting your PharmD is almost impossible, all things being equal. If you think your region has a surplus of your likes, you should consider relocating to another that still needs your likes. One way or another, you will end up getting the job -- even though certain factors are subject to cause some changes.

And don't worry about me. I already have a reserved spot. I just have 8 years time limit from Fall of '08 to get the PharmD or they'll toss me aside. I'm a living proof that sign on bonuses will still exist in the future. It's what I always called stocked up blessing🙂 Yes, there is hope. Don't let the "career mouth-crashers" convince you otherwise.

If you think they are right, do something else. Nursing is always there as an alternative.😉

You use interesting phrases to say things. I'm kind of intrigued.

And this 8 year thing is interesting, would you care to elaborate? It doesn't sound like retail to me, or maybe it is? Granted, if it's Rite-Aid, I doubt they'd be around in 8 years as a company anyway. I have a verbal job offer from my old CVS district upon graduation, but I know that market conditions change, so I'm not going to bank on a promise from someone that would take effect 3 years from now.

But anyway back to topic...it's clear that this job, whatever you're talking about, didn't just fall out of the sky, you actually had to work for it (or do something to convince someone to hire you). My point is having a PharmD and nothing else but a pulse will not get you a bonus and a job in a few years.

 

[SHC1984]

What I was saying is that worrying that you won't get a job after getting your PharmD is almost impossible, all things being equal. If you think your region has a surplus of your likes, you should consider relocating to another that still needs your likes. One way or another, you will end up getting the job -- even though certain factors are subject to cause some changes.

And don't worry about me. I already have a reserved spot. I just have 8 years time limit from Fall of '08 to get the PharmD or they'll toss me aside. I'm a living proof that sign on bonuses will still exist in the future. It's what I always called stocked up blessing🙂 Yes, there is hope. Don't let the "career mouth-crashers" convince you otherwise.

If you think they are right, do something else. Nursing is always there as an alternative.😉

how? does your dad own walgreens?

 

[SHC1984]

lol, stop stealing my rainbows/ice cream/kittens/puppies lines...haha.

This thread is full of idiots, ohh mahh gahh, future pharmacists of america? that freaks me out. i hope some of you never get into school. you know who you are.

anyway, the surplus is coming in one form or another...if you don't have the fortitude and smarts to market yourself, have a horrible time communicating, and simply want to count pills and hide behind a counter all your life, then you're royally screwed.

if you work quickly/efficiently and can prove your worth to any company, then you're fine, no need to worry. It's these "only smart on paper" geeks who have no concept of employment/real world/workplace smarts that will get eaten alive.

In short, the days of $10k signing bonuses and $120k retail salaries falling into the laps of new grads is either done already or ending within the next 2 years (unless you're in some podunk town in the midwest).

Will you still be able to find a job? Yeah, probably...you'll just have to know how to get one.

I know! Maybe it will last for 3 years I hope....I just hope I get into South and get me a job (I am okay with NO bonuses...LOL..) in 3 years!

 

[genesis09]

In short, the days of $10k signing bonuses and $120k retail salaries falling into the laps of new grads is either done already or ending within the next 2 years (unless you're in some podunk town in the midwest).

I got my $20k sign-on bonus for a district in Milwaukee.

 

[wasteoftime]

Actually, we are sort of in the prime of the baby boomer's RX burden now. Find out the definition of baby boomers, and how old they are (~70). Where we are getting at now is at the second generation of baby boomers (Generation Y) which is a smaller population.

2009 - 70 = 1939

that make's me feel pretty confident about scoring higher on the math pcat section than other people here.

 

[Happy Hounds]

I got my $20k sign-on bonus for a district in Milwaukee.

I'd assume that's because it's in or around Milwaukee...

 

[BelowTheMean]

Alright I am finally going to let you guys out of the fog.

There will be no pharmacy jobs when you graduate (or would have). There will be no such thing as pharmacists. In fact, there never really were. The whole "pharmacy" thing was just a ploy by Walgreens/Technology/Government. So just don't even go to Pharmacy school, it is not worth it.

👍👍👍 seriously, there are minimal jobs now...wait 5 yrs later when those of you who are just starting finish...nothing left.

 

[jasonbourne]

From the pharmacy students forum:


http://www.pharmacytimes.com/issues/...05-01_1830.asp

PHARMACIST OVER-SUPPLY?

Fred M. Eckel, RPh, MS, Pharmacy Times Editor-in-Chief
In 2 different presentations I heard something I have not heard discussed for a long time. Both speakers suggested that we could experience an over-supply of pharmacists. Recently, I have heard some pharmacy leaders suggest that the supply of pharmacists seems to be adequate in their geographic area, but they have not suggested an over-supply. The first presentation suggested that as e-prescribing increases, expert system-enhanced computer systems become more common and technicians' role expand, the number of pharmacists needed to fill prescriptions will decline. The other speaker suggested that if pharmacy benefit managers (PBMs) are able to promote restricted distribution systems and mandate more mail order usage, it could reduce the number of prescriptions filled in community pharmacy. A PBM executive suggested that there is an excess of 20,000 community pharmacies because the existing mail order capacity could absorb the prescription dispensing from those stores and at a lower cost. In 2003, mail order filled 17.2% of all prescriptions, and, more importantly, this was the fastest growing segment, with over a 10% increase over the previous year. If the new Medicare Part D allows a prominent role for PBMs with restricted distribution networks and mandatory mail order options, then it is possible that there will be less need for pharmacists to dispense prescriptions in community pharmacy. Interestingly Walton, et al. reported (J Am Pharm Assoc 2004;44:673-683) that the most accurate predictor of the number of pharmacist positions was the number of community pharmacy prescriptions. Thus, it is logical to suggest that any policy change to decrease prescription filling in community pharmacy will adversely affect the number of pharmacist positions. That is why you are now seeing campaigns from pharmacy groups to publicize the consequences of mail order and restricted distribution systems on patient access as well as the hidden costs associated with PBM programs. Of course, PBMs have mounted their own public relations campaign. This suggests that the economic consequences of any decisions made about where prescriptions will be filled could have significant financial implications. If these scenarios were to occur in the next few years, are you prepared for the possible decreased need for dispensing pharmacists?

This scares me, seriously.

 

[homeslice]

lol, stop stealing my rainbows/ice cream/kittens/puppies lines...haha.

This thread is full of idiots, ohh mahh gahh, future pharmacists of america? that freaks me out. i hope some of you never get into school. you know who you are.

anyway, the surplus is coming in one form or another...if you don't have the fortitude and smarts to market yourself, have a horrible time communicating, and simply want to count pills and hide behind a counter all your life, then you're royally screwed.

if you work quickly/efficiently and can prove your worth to any company, then you're fine, no need to worry. It's these "only smart on paper" geeks who have no concept of employment/real world/workplace smarts that will get eaten alive.

In short, the days of $10k signing bonuses and $120k retail salaries falling into the laps of new grads is either done already or ending within the next 2 years (unless you're in some podunk town in the midwest).

Will you still be able to find a job? Yeah, probably...you'll just have to know how to get one.

Thank god I plan on living in that podunk town in the Midwest

 

[WVUPharm2007]

This economy is killing job prospects. Old people can't retire because their 401ks are shot...they aren't leaving their positions...hospitals and retail pharmacies are running skelly crews and are in hiring freezes...AND there are more schools than ever before producing graduates.

All of this adds up to a borderline panic. It might get better when the economy turns around...if they stop opening up all of these damned third tier schools left and right...

 

[SHC1984]

This economy is killing job prospects. Old people can't retire because their 401ks are shot...they aren't leaving their positions...hospitals and retail pharmacies are running skelly crews and are in hiring freezes...AND there are more schools than ever before producing graduates.

All of this adds up to a borderline panic. It might get better when the economy turns around...if they stop opening up all of these damned third tier schools left and right...

what are third tier pharmacy schools? schools that are not ranked? or schools that are ranked under 20? 10? Or just schools with no accreditaion?

I hope South and Mercer aren't third tier...They are the schools I am going to choose from....

 

[WVUPharm2007]

what are third tier pharmacy schools? schools that are not ranked? or schools that are ranked under 20? 10? Or just schools with no accreditaion?

I hope South and Mercer aren't third tier...They are the schools I am going to choose from....

Yeah...there is no real definition...it's kind of a term we invented on the pharmacy forum to describe all of these no-name schools that are opening up everywhere and admitting kids with 2.4 GPAs...

 

[gotmilklol]

I think they should fire all the pharmacists that have a BA in pharmacy and tell them to get a PhamaD in pharmacy to get the jobs back! lol

 

[gotmilklol]

I think they should fire all the pharmacists that have a BA in pharmacy and tell them to get a PharmD in Pharmacy! lol

 

[SHC1984]

Yeah...there is no real definition...it's kind of a term we invented on the pharmacy forum to describe all of these no-name schools that are opening up everywhere and admitting kids with 2.4 GPAs...

Fair enough. 🙂

 

[confettiflyer]

I think they should fire all the pharmacists that have a BA in pharmacy and tell them to get a PharmD in Pharmacy! lol

lol, do you even know what you're attempting to talk about?

 

[atticus27]

I think they should fire all the pharmacists that have a BA in pharmacy and tell them to get a PharmD in Pharmacy! lol

I was very anti-Burger King, until me had the flame-broiled Whopper, and it was amazing.

 

[thephoenician88]

I think we should merge all these OMG TOO MANY PHARMACISTS threads into an official "pharmacist supply thread." Seriously, there are about 20 of these.

 

[ret09]

I hate to add fuel to the fire, but so far nobody has given any actual evidence regarding this there will be no pharmacy jobs in 5 years doomsday scenario aside from "I heard this guy that knows a guy that works at a pharmacy say there are no jobs", or "my cousin is a pharmacist and she knows a pharmacist that said Walgreens isn't hiring", or the to many schools are opening debate.

For anyone interested, check out this 60-page study that came out December 2008 by the DHHS regarding this very issue. Its filled with fancy charts and graphs debunking this we are all going to be janitors in 5 years myth. They adjust their findings for everything from new schools opening, current trends in retirement, retention, the impact of gender, age, drug supply/demand ratios, aging populations, rate of new drugs entering the market, drug rx rates, etc...

It makes for wonderful bathroom reading, but here is the take home message:
"The projections suggest that only when combining an optimistic supply scenario with a conservative demand scenario will future supply be adequate to meet the needs of a growing and aging population. However, under most scenarios modeled, supply will be insufficient to meet the needs of a population caused by growth in per capita consumption of pharmaceuticals."

And even more exciting, assuming pharmacists start practicing pharmaceutical care like we are trained to:

​

"The demand projections assume that the role of pharmacists will remain largely unchanged over the projection horizon. With the Pharm.D now the minimum educational requirement for entry into the workforce, new pharmacists have greater ability than do earlier cohorts to take on ​

51 [FONT=Book Antiqua,Book Antiqua]The Adequacy of Pharmacist Supply .52
increasing responsibilities in patient management and counseling. Participants at a 2002 conference discussed the number of pharmacists that would be needed to deliver high-quality care under a scenario where pharmacists play a larger role in patient care management. These participants concluded that an estimated 417,000 pharmacists would be needed by 2020 (approximately 128,000 more than calculated under our moderate Rx/capita growth demand scenario), which when compared to our baseline supply projections suggests a shortfall of approximately 157,000 pharmacists in 2020.51 An expanded role for pharmacists can occur only if a reimbursement mechanism is instituted to pay pharmacists for such services. The Medicare Modernization Act of 2003 has opened the door for pharmacists to receive reimbursement for medication therapy management services for a select number of high-drug-utilization Medicare beneficiaries.52

Enjoy: ftp://ftp.hrsa.gov/bhpr/workforce/pharmacy.pdf

 

[PharmPhanatic]

I hate to add another comment with no hard evidence, but after reading this thread, I decided to ask the pharmacist I intern under his thoughts. Keep in mind this is not a traditional pharmacy. There are about 100 pharmacists on staff here. But anyway this was his response: I can't speak for other pharmacies, but we hire any pharmacist with a PharmD and a pulse who walks through the door lol.

 

[Dysic]

I hate to add fuel to the fire, but so far nobody has given any actual evidence regarding this there will be no pharmacy jobs in 5 years doomsday scenario aside from "I heard this guy that knows a guy that works at a pharmacy say there are no jobs", or "my cousin is a pharmacist and she knows a pharmacist that said Walgreens isn't hiring", or the to many schools are opening debate.

For anyone interested, check out this 60-page study that came out December 2008 by the DHHS regarding this very issue. Its filled with fancy charts and graphs debunking this we are all going to be janitors in 5 years myth. They adjust their findings for everything from new schools opening, current trends in retirement, retention, the impact of gender, age, drug supply/demand ratios, aging populations, rate of new drugs entering the market, drug rx rates, etc...

It makes for wonderful bathroom reading, but here is the take home message:
"The projections suggest that only when combining an optimistic supply scenario with a conservative demand scenario will future supply be adequate to meet the needs of a growing and aging population. However, under most scenarios modeled, supply will be insufficient to meet the needs of a population caused by growth in per capita consumption of pharmaceuticals."

And even more exciting, assuming pharmacists start practicing pharmaceutical care like we are trained to:

"The demand projections assume that the role of pharmacists will remain largely unchanged over the projection horizon. With the Pharm.D now the minimum educational requirement for entry into the workforce, new pharmacists have greater ability than do earlier cohorts to take on ​

51 [FONT=Book Antiqua,Book Antiqua]The Adequacy of Pharmacist Supply .52
increasing responsibilities in patient management and counseling. Participants at a 2002 conference discussed the number of pharmacists that would be needed to deliver high-quality care under a scenario where pharmacists play a larger role in patient care management. These participants concluded that an estimated 417,000 pharmacists would be needed by 2020 (approximately 128,000 more than calculated under our moderate Rx/capita growth demand scenario), which when compared to our baseline supply projections suggests a shortfall of approximately 157,000 pharmacists in 2020.51 An expanded role for pharmacists can occur only if a reimbursement mechanism is instituted to pay pharmacists for such services. The Medicare Modernization Act of 2003 has opened the door for pharmacists to receive reimbursement for medication therapy management services for a select number of high-drug-utilization Medicare beneficiaries.52

Enjoy: ftp://ftp.hrsa.gov/bhpr/workforce/pharmacy.pdf

Thanks for sharing!

For the past few weeks, I've been a little scared of a possible "pharmacy surplus" due to the opening of many pharmacy schools.

It's nice to know that an extensive study has been done that says otherwise 🙂

 

[genesis09]

All of those studies are assuming pharmacists will do more clinical services, and that has not happened. Most pharmacies in the Chicago area are not hiring. I know plenty of people who do not have a job.

 

[thephoenician88]

Enjoy: ftp://ftp.hrsa.gov/bhpr/workforce/pharmacy.pdf

wow dude, thank you thank you thank you,

FINALLY someone has found a LEGITIMATE source of information with actual data and real numbers. If you read the article it gives you a full description of what's happening, going to happen, and even takes into account all the school openings. It gives a detailed list of why demand is still on the rise and why there is a MODERATE SHORTFALL of pharmacists. This is a 100 times better than that pharmacy times article that was quoted above, which has a broken link, plus it seems it was written in 2005, 4 years ago. This article by the HRSA (that's the US health and Services administration fyi) slaps every naysayer in this thread and their self-propelled argument of "there are so many ****ty schools that I don't attend and they're taking my jobs".....NO. They're not taking your jobs, you're just not going to get as many "benefits" such as working exactly where you want to. But as older pharmacists retire, as drugs become more complex, as more people retire, as the US population grows, as pharmacists start playing a larger role in health care....pharmacists will be needed.

 

[thephoenician88]

 

[thephoenician88]

 

[WhiteSnows]

Just want to say "hi" to everyone.

 

[ret09]

wow dude, thank you thank you thank you,

FINALLY someone has found a LEGITIMATE source of information with actual data and real numbers. If you read the article it gives you a full description of what's happening, going to happen, and even takes into account all the school openings. It gives a detailed list of why demand is still on the rise and why there is a MODERATE SHORTFALL of pharmacists. This is a 100 times better than that pharmacy times article that was quoted above, which has a broken link, plus it seems it was written in 2005, 4 years ago. This article by the HRSA (that's the US health and Services administration fyi) slaps every naysayer in this thread and their self-propelled argument of "there are so many ****ty schools that I don't attend and they're taking my jobs".....NO. They're not taking your jobs, you're just not going to get as many "benefits" such as working exactly where you want to. But as older pharmacists retire, as drugs become more complex, as more people retire, as the US population grows, as pharmacists start playing a larger role in health care....pharmacists will be needed.

Bingo.

 

[ret09]

All of those studies are assuming pharmacists will do more clinical services, and that has not happened. Most pharmacies in the Chicago area are not hiring. I know plenty of people who do not have a job.

Well, its clear all this current saturation in major cities is a result of pharmacists hanging on to their jobs for dear life or retired pharmacists going back to work thanks to the recession. Even so, demand for pharmacists across the country is still quite high. As of feb 2009 the ADI nationwide was at 3.77, and 3.5 for Illinois. I think the past 10 years of 10% vacancies spoiled pharmacists into thinking they could flash their diplomas and instantly land a job at the Walgreens down their street. Maybe they should start looking for jobs outside of Chicago: more jobs, same pay, lower cost of living, same awful weather. Zing! (c'mon, I'm kidding. The setup was perfect, couldn't resist).

 

[IrishHammer]

Well, its clear all this current saturation in major cities is a result of pharmacists hanging on to their jobs for dear life or retired pharmacists going back to work thanks to the recession. Even so, demand for pharmacists across the country is still quite high. As of feb 2009 the ADI nationwide was at 3.77, and 3.5 for Illinois. I think the past 10 years of 10% vacancies spoiled pharmacists into thinking they could flash their diplomas and instantly land a job at the Walgreens down their street. Maybe they should start looking for jobs outside of Chicago: more jobs, same pay, lower cost of living, same awful weather. Zing! (c'mon, I'm kidding. The setup was perfect, couldn't resist).

I think the crux of the issue was illustrated very nicely in this post. The major problem won't be that there is a complete, across-the-board surplus of pharmacists, but rather, there will be a misappropriation of pharmacists. We're already seeing it, as places in Los Angeles and Chicago have too many, while a place like Cleveland still has far too few. Even the people who keep talking apocalyptically about the surplus always tack in at the end "There'll be no jobs, except in rural areas and the midwest." Well, we live in a big country. There's a lot of rural area, and the Midwest is pretty big as well. And I can tell you from experience that living/working in a rural area is not necessarily as bad as some people would peg it to be. Just because a few big cities have too many pharmacists, doesn't mean that every single town will be that way. The economy is hurting people, and making this more of a hot button issue, but the sky isn't falling, you'll still be able to make a living as a pharmacist, you just have to plan ahead and not assume that walking through a door with a PharmD and a pulse will get you 150K right off the bat. I doubt anyone on this forum assumes that, anyway.

 

[09M3]

I totally agree!

 

[SHC1984]

I think the crux of the issue was illustrated very nicely in this post. The major problem won't be that there is a complete, across-the-board surplus of pharmacists, but rather, there will be a misappropriation of pharmacists. We're already seeing it, as places in Los Angeles and Chicago have too many, while a place like Cleveland still has far too few. Even the people who keep talking apocalyptically about the surplus always tack in at the end "There'll be no jobs, except in rural areas and the midwest." Well, we live in a big country. There's a lot of rural area, and the Midwest is pretty big as well. And I can tell you from experience that living/working in a rural area is not necessarily as bad as some people would peg it to be. Just because a few big cities have too many pharmacists, doesn't mean that every single town will be that way. The economy is hurting people, and making this more of a hot button issue, but the sky isn't falling, you'll still be able to make a living as a pharmacist, you just have to plan ahead and not assume that walking through a door with a PharmD and a pulse will get you 150K right off the bat. I doubt anyone on this forum assumes that, anyway.

Agreed with everything you said...except the fact that living in rural areas isn't bad....living in rural areas would suck...👎thumbdown👎 Best places to live at San Franciso, New York City, Miami, Honoulu, Los Angeles, but they are all saturated! 🙁

 

[IrishHammer]

Agreed with everything you said...except the fact that living in rural areas isn't bad....living in rural areas would suck...👎thumbdown👎

Can you convince more people of that for me? Thanks!

 

[type b pharmD]

Can you convince more people of that for me? Thanks!

Word. Rural areas ftw.

 

[mildlyneurotic]

Oh, there will be pharmacists in the future, They Just Won't Be Human! *Evil Cackle*



Remember this bit of doomsday sensationalism TWO YEARS AGO!
http://www.naturalnews.com/021758.html

Where'd that go? This thread makes me laugh hehe

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

You pre pharmacy students are definitely true lemmings. You guys would rather listen to people who have no experience in the job market what so ever compared to graduates who are graduating this year. Do you guys not have any common sense?

Me and pretty much every practicing pharmacists and pharmacy students are saying the same thing. We are not even debating this. We already showed you guys why the articles you provide are wrong. The study does not take into FUTURE pharmacy schools opening. It only takes into pre candidate schools/ candidate pharmacy schools for fall 2010. Right now, it shows that in addition to the 110 pharmacy schools, there are going to be a lot more with intentions of opening up (hence diploma mills).

This study also takes into consideration that pharmacists will be providing clinical services. This simply has not happenned yet. Ultimately, a lot of the said clinical services can be provided by nurses or will not happen.

The 2/3rd female is so irrevelant that it stumps me. The arguement that they will work part time is not true anymore. Anybody coming out with 150k in debt are going to work at least 10-20 years FULL TIME just to pay off those student loans and get a return on investment.

 

[Aznfarmerboi]

Moving to a rural area is not as simple as it sounds. There are a lot of pharmacy students with family obligations. Sure you will avoid your mother but what about your spouse and children? Will your spouse be able to find a job in Detroit where unemployment high? Will your children be safe in gang land central? Just saying, target markets are target markets for a reason. Just dont have that dream it is full of famlands without the amendities of a city. It is most likely a chain pharmacy or drug rehab center for underserved populations where profits are high.

There is also the issue of finding a place to settle down. Coming up with a down payment and making mortage payments can be a bitch. However I really dont see banks willing to lend for properties that are worthless to begin with anyway.

 

[IrishHammer]

Moving to a rural area is not as simple as it sounds. There are a lot of pharmacy students with family obligations. Sure you will avoid your mother but what about your spouse and children? Will your spouse be able to find a job in Detroit where unemployment high? Will your children be safe in gang land central? Just saying, target markets are target markets for a reason. Just dont have that dream it is full of famlands without the amendities of a city. It is most likely a chain pharmacy or drug rehab center for underserved populations where profits are high.

There is also the issue of finding a place to settle down. Coming up with a down payment and making mortage payments can be a bitch. However I really dont see banks willing to lend for properties that are worthless to begin with anyway.

Fine, let other people have family obligations, I'm not married nor do I have kids, nor am I in any way looking, nor am I looking to buy a house right out of pharmacy school, so all of what you said merely is giving me a leg up. And I've lived in a rural area my whole life, so I think I can manage.

How did Detroit come into this, by the way? I've never even been to Michigan. Thank you for your concern, but it's really not necessary. There will be plenty of jobs available in Western New York once I get my PharmD (DYC won't have produced any graduates at that point, and many of SJF's students aren't from Buffalo). I'm also already looking into ways to make myself more marketable as a pharmacist. I realize that current pharmacists are angered by graduates who possess only a 2.0, a PharmD, and a pulse, but I assure you, I am not one of those people.

I don't care if Chicago is oversupplied, I don't care if Los Angeles is oversupplied, go post that on the CCP and UC threads, respectively.

 

[SHC1984]

Fine, let other people have family obligations, I'm not married nor do I have kids, nor am I in any way looking, nor am I looking to buy a house right out of pharmacy school, so all of what you said merely is giving me a leg up. And I've lived in a rural area my whole life, so I think I can manage.

How did Detroit come into this, by the way? I've never even been to Michigan. Thank you for your concern, but it's really not necessary. There will be plenty of jobs available in Western New York once I get my PharmD (DYC won't have produced any graduates at that point, and many of SJF's students aren't from Buffalo). I'm also already looking into ways to make myself more marketable as a pharmacist. I realize that current pharmacists are angered by graduates who possess only a 2.0, a PharmD, and a pulse, but I assure you, I am not one of those people.

I don't care if Chicago is oversupplied, I don't care if Los Angeles is oversupplied, go post that on the CCP and UC threads, respectively.

He was just telling the truth. If you think getting a job is a piece of cake then thats fine as well...but why get so defensive because someone is just stating a pure fact?

And it depends on when you graduate. If you are graduating this year or next year then sure you can get a job, but a few years from now not so much...the surplus will hit in 4 to 5 years its a fact please don't get mad over a fact.

 

[PharmBoi757]

The only real division I see that's going to be negatively impacted according to all of the articles and information provided is community/retail pharmacists. Although, I hope that sector isn't negatively impacted I hope the best for everyone in the future of their professions but you have to consider the fact that there are so many other options of being a pharmacist. Your not just limited to getting that over the counter job at walgreens or cvs. Aside from Community pharmacy you have Nuclear pharmacy, Managed care Pharmacy, the ability to work for pharmaceutical companies(pfizer etc), Academia(in which the need for more faculty in the pharmacy schools is higher than ever and probably will increase), Governmental Agencies(Public Health Service, Veterans Administration etc), I mean the lists goes on and there are many things that I have not mentioned. Pharmacy is here to stay and if everyone's negative projections do in fact come true then I would just suggest revamping your resume, specialize in a different field of pharmacy and take the board certification. Don't limit yourself to just the community/retail aspect because the way things are looking right now isn't too good when you look at everyone depending on technology and the like.

 

[IrishHammer]

He was just telling the truth. If you think getting a job is a piece of cake then thats fine as well...but why get so defensive because someone is just stating a pure fact?

And it depends on when you graduate. If you are graduating this year or next year then sure you can get a job, but a few years from now not so much...the surplus will hit in 4 to 5 years its a fact please don't get mad over a fact.

I didn't say getting a job was going to be a piece of cake. I merely said that I'm confident that I will have the tools necessary to get one.

As far as me "getting defensive"...I'm just getting very tired of hearing these "too many schools" posts about how everybody going to pharmacy school these days is a ***** who has nothing more than a C average and a pulse. I realize it shouldn't affect me, and if anything, I should hope it's true because when we're all fighting for jobs, I'll be in good shape, but it's still a damn slap in my face to be painted over with that kind of brush again and again. Some people on this board sound more like current degree holders who are paranoid of losing their jobs than they do people trying to give wise career advice. I'm not afraid of a little competition upon graduating, bring it on.

Facts? I gave clear repute of his "facts". Nobody's moving to Buffalo, it's a shrinking region, and there aren't many new graduates being created in the region, nor will there be upon my graduation. Aznfarmerboi's reasons for me not being able to get a job were not based on facts; rather, he gave several assumptions about my life and future (being married, having a kid, buying a house, getting stuck at a rehab facility or underserved chain pharmacy) while entirely dodging the facts I brought up about so-called "diploma mills" sprouting up in WNY.

 

[gsinccom]

The only real division I see that's going to be negatively impacted according to all of the articles and information provided is community/retail pharmacists. Although, I hope that sector isn't negatively impacted I hope the best for everyone in the future of their professions but you have to consider the fact that there are so many other options of being a pharmacist. Your not just limited to getting that over the counter job at walgreens or cvs. Aside from Community pharmacy you have Nuclear pharmacy, Managed care Pharmacy, the ability to work for pharmaceutical companies(pfizer etc), Academia(in which the need for more faculty in the pharmacy schools is higher than ever and probably will increase), Governmental Agencies(Public Health Service, Veterans Administration etc), I mean the lists goes on and there are many things that I have not mentioned. Pharmacy is here to stay and if everyone's negative projections do in fact come true then I would just suggest revamping your resume, specialize in a different field of pharmacy and take the board certification. Don't limit yourself to just the community/retail aspect because the way things are looking right now isn't too good when you look at everyone depending on technology and the like.

good advice. do what you can to make yourself standout from the crowd!

 

[ret09]

good advice. do what you can to make yourself standout from the crowd!

Learn Spanish. Hispanics account for 16% of the US population, 20% by 2030.

 

[Passion4Sci]

Learn Spanish. Hispanics account for 16% of the US population, 20% by 2030.

This is excellent advice... Although I am sure it's limited in its effectiveness by region. For example, when my wife and I were in Nebraska visiting in-laws for Christmas, there was nary a Hispanic to be seen. It was white, white, and more white. Being fluent in Spanish, or anything else really, would be a minimal selling point.

Now, here in Northern California, it's obviously a big one. I speak Arabic, Farsi and Spanish in addition to my English, so I can overcome every major language barrier in Nor Cal except in conversing with Russian/Czech populations (And there are a lot in Sacramento). I am quite sure that this multi-lingual ability is what secured me a very lucrative position at a major hospital in the bay area, one of 3 positions as a volunteer that tens if not hundreds of aspiring pharmers are vying for in this area.

My supervisors know that in a pinch, I can even be used to translate in emergency room services situations. And the Pharmacist I work directly under says she feels comfortable every time I am on shift there because whether the client speaks only Spanish, Farsi or Arabic, I can interpret.

It certainly cannot hurt your cause! It is most certainly a force multiplier, as it is known in military parlance.

 

[SHC1984]

I didn't say getting a job was going to be a piece of cake. I merely said that I'm confident that I will have the tools necessary to get one.

As far as me "getting defensive"...I'm just getting very tired of hearing these "too many schools" posts about how everybody going to pharmacy school these days is a ***** who has nothing more than a C average and a pulse. I realize it shouldn't affect me, and if anything, I should hope it's true because when we're all fighting for jobs, I'll be in good shape, but it's still a damn slap in my face to be painted over with that kind of brush again and again. Some people on this board sound more like current degree holders who are paranoid of losing their jobs than they do people trying to give wise career advice. I'm not afraid of a little competition upon graduating, bring it on.

Facts? I gave clear repute of his "facts". Nobody's moving to Buffalo, it's a shrinking region, and there aren't many new graduates being created in the region, nor will there be upon my graduation. Aznfarmerboi's reasons for me not being able to get a job were not based on facts; rather, he gave several assumptions about my life and future (being married, having a kid, buying a house, getting stuck at a rehab facility or underserved chain pharmacy) while entirely dodging the facts I brought up about so-called "diploma mills" sprouting up in WNY.

I didn't think he was directing those facts (getting married, buying a house, having kids etc.) on you. But those are things that everyone will eventually do...some do it sooner then others of course.

And there are too many pharmacy schools. As I mention before just compare the number of dental schools to pharmacy schools...thats enough to say there is a huge surplus there. And those "*****'s with a pulse" as you mention...will take your job. I mean how do someone know how good you are compare to the next person unless they have HIRED both of you guys and worked with both of you guys for some time. I mean lets face it...when everyone graduates from pharmacy school you are pretty much just a walking resume. Employers will see your school's NAME, test scores, etc. How in the world will anyone suppose to know how "smart" you are compare to anyone else without working with you for some time beforehand? Therefore the name of your school will matter more as time pass I believe. Thats pretty much the ONLY thing an employer can see as far as who the person is without knowing the person beforehand.

However I think people are just talking about the surplus and the opening up of new schools a lot because it is a important topic to address...afterall unless you have parents to pay for your tuition...you will need to make at least 120K a year to pay off a 150K student loan...there is no other option...

 

[SHC1984]

Learn Spanish. Hispanics account for 16% of the US population, 20% by 2030.

I will getting an MBA/PharmD help? MBA any help?

 

[IrishHammer]

I didn't think he was directing those facts (getting married, buying a house, having kids etc.) on you. But those are things that everyone will eventually do...some do it sooner then others of course.

And there are too many pharmacy schools. As I mention before just compare the number of dental schools to pharmacy schools...thats enough to say there is a huge surplus there. And those "*****'s with a pulse" as you mention...will take your job. I mean how do someone know how good you are compare to the next person unless they have HIRED both of you guys and worked with both of you guys for some time. I mean lets face it...when everyone graduates from pharmacy school you are pretty much just a walking resume. Employers will see your school's NAME, test scores, etc. How in the world will anyone suppose to know how "smart" you are compare to anyone else without working with you for some time beforehand? Therefore the name of your school will matter more as time pass I believe. Thats pretty much the ONLY thing an employer can see as far as who the person is without knowing the person beforehand.

However I think people are just talking about the surplus and the opening up of new schools a lot because it is a important topic to address...afterall unless you have parents to pay for your tuition...you will need to make at least 120K a year to pay off a 150K student loan...there is no other option...

My parents are giving me their house, mortgage paid-in-full, hand over fist. I pay a one time gift tax (or, God forbid, an estate tax) and it's all mine. Yes, my parents and I have made several plans for the future already.

Your argument seems inconsistent. The "*****s with a pulse" (coined by others before me on this forum, by the by) are getting into the "diploma mills" because they weren't good enough to get into the big name schools, yet when it comes the time when the name of your school is important, the *****s from the mills are taking more qualified people's jobs? I missed something in your argument. And for the record, I was also accepted to UB for the fall to pursue a bachelor's degree, but since I was also accepted to pharmacy school this year, I opted for SJF rather than waiting another two years to apply at UB (which makes it twice now that I've been accepted at UB and opted to go elsewhere).

More to your argument, you completely glanced over what I said. I get that in some areas, competition is already very tight and your school name is very important. This is happening right now and will be more prevalent as time goes on. Western New York is not one of those areas yet, and will not be upon my graduation (nor will it be for quite some time). I'll be able to get settled into a job and have experience. A surplus in all of Western New York is still a long, long time off, so I'll have plenty of work experience to back up my resume when the time comes and I have to fight for a job. Trust me, I've thought this through and done my homework on the situation. I know that there are too many pharmacy schools (moreso in terms of where they are as opposed to the sheer number), but I'm confident that this situation will resolve before our field is too far gone. When pharmacy students in regions of the country can't find a job that pays enough to allow them to pay back their loans to the government, and the government is suddenly getting taken to the cleaners on student loans, I'm sure there'll be changes made. Nothing shakes things up like the government when they're pissed off about getting their money.