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Pharmacy Resident

Discussion in 'Pharmacy' started by ProfessorXanax, Aug 14, 2015.

  1. ProfessorXanax

    2+ Year Member

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    Hey y'all,

    I need a current pharmacy resident or one from within the last 5 years to share with me where they were matched, some of the duties you are responsible for as a resident, your future career interests, what school you went to and just about the experience overall!

    I'm on the fence about applying for a residency (I'm a P2 now) so any help is appreciated! :)
     
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  3. Son_Goku

    Son_Goku Probationary Status
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    70-80 hours a week doing all the things that the pharmacists don't want to do.
     
  4. ProfessorXanax

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    Very enlightening answer
     
  5. gwarm01

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    Don't forget the severely reduced pay.
     
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  6. BidingMyTime

    BidingMyTime Lost Shaker Of Salt
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    If you are looking for the sugar-coated answer, then talk to the places offering residencies.
     
  7. ProfessorXanax

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    Not looking for sugar-coated anything. Just wanted to know some experiences besides the general negativity that all students already know. Long hours, no pay, crappy work, blah blah yeah I've heard that a million times already.
     
  8. confettiflyer

    confettiflyer Did you just say something?
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    ~50 hours a week here, 33% of pharmacist pay, lots of project work crammed in between rotations. Lots of different experiences not open to staff pharmacists.

    Lots of doors opened at the end for me that were unavailable after graduation. Financially behind retail colleagues for about 2.5 years.
     
  9. Pharmacyjoedotcom

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    This is pretty much exactly the experience I see the residents at my hospital getting.
     
  10. Son_Goku

    Son_Goku Probationary Status
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    Pretty sure you're behind until the end of time.
     
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  11. hamza1892

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    True that! You are the preceptors b word! What I am planning on doing is getting my bcps, because it's as equivalent to a residency
     
  12. hamza1892

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    Plus in my experience while working in the hospital and rotating at a high end hospitals, such as Cleveland clinic, William Beaumont hospital, the doctors really don't take the advice of pharmacist. What pharmacist really do in the hospital is make sure the dose is correct, match drug to indication, dose warfarin, dose vanco, dose aminoglycosides, (dosing is only direct order from the Dr ) pharmacy really don't have any power in the hospital we just have opinions and advice... The doctor can over rule anything we say.
    Again this is from my experience in the hospital, ppl might have different experiences. But I like talking to ppl and you don't get a lot of that in the hospital
     
  13. confettiflyer

    confettiflyer Did you just say something?
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    Nah it was like 2.33 years based on clinical pharmacist premium over retail pay here (+$8-10/hr), maybe a bit more if you count in stock options for the retail people. Didn't calculate opportunity cost and NPV of investment x 1 year compounded, though. So back of envelope maybe 2.6 years, feel free to calculate for me though.
     
  14. confettiflyer

    confettiflyer Did you just say something?
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    Because they're teaching hospitals, priority is for physician resident teaching. This is true at Stanford also... clinical pharmacists at smaller institutions and weird places like Kaiser have more autonomy.
     
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  15. confettiflyer

    confettiflyer Did you just say something?
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    Not quite... BCPS is just a test with 4 letters and not a substitute for residency. It'll make you stand out, but not *that* much.
     
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  16. GoldfishPharmD

    GoldfishPharmD walking on a dream
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    I typed out this long drawn out reply but what's the point? I love how people who never actually did a residency (much less even graduate pharmacy school yet) always have such a big opinion about them and can speak about them more than people that have actually been in one (or two).
     
  17. GoldfishPharmD

    GoldfishPharmD walking on a dream
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    I have mixed feelings about my first year of residency. There were good rotations and I didn't have as many projects as residents at other programs. My work week was about 50 hours maximum. I staffed 1 every 4th weekend and I got comp days so I could have 3-4 day weekend. I did two journal clubs, maybe 4 presentations max, and of course had my main research project. The bad feelings I had about my PGY1 is I wished it was little more rigorous. Outside of a couple of preceptors, none of the other preceptors really pushed me. I only had a few preceptors that "pimped" me, which I enjoy cause I learn better that way and the stuff that they taught me I carried on to my PGY2.

    My PGY2 was basically pure love. I rarely had any negative thoughts about it. I did work my ass off my PGY2 though. I worked an average of 12 hour days. If I didn't have to be in until 8AM was a treat. Although I worked a lot harder, the environment was so much better for learning. I was given so much autonomy. I rounded with the team on my own. Since I was at an academic medical center, I pretty much just told the residents what to do regarding medications and the majority of my recommendations were accepted. I was also doing what I was passionate about.

    I think overall, residency is what you make it. A lot of people on this forum think residency is stupid and pointless but it you can use it to do great things. Not everyone is fortunate enough to do something other than retail without getting a residency, unfortunately. Also residency is hard, but I very rarely ever heard someone say they regret doing a residency.
     
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  18. pillpharmer14

    pillpharmer14 pharmin' til' it's gone

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    My honest opinion when I read posts like this (and meet highly specialized pharmacists) is that you did comparable work of a medical resident without the big pay day at the end. Why not go to medical school? I just never felt that it was a good investment to pursue a residency. What were your motivations? I'm just sharing my thoughts because you're right, many people have big opinions about residencies even though they never completed one.
     
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  19. GoldfishPharmD

    GoldfishPharmD walking on a dream
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    I didn't go to medical school because I wasn't interested in being a doctor. I don't like touching patients and see "gross" things. The only reason I see people saying people that do two years of residency should do medical school is for the money but the money still requires work. I'm not going to lie and say I haven't thought about medical school but if I did do medicine I wouldn't be a PCP. I'd either want one of the more competitive/cush specialties or do nephrology, which I love but that's super long. I also hear so many MD/DO tell me how much they regret going into medicine. I like pharmacy and I like the specialty I picked. I'm satisfied with my income as well. At this moment, I don't regret my two years of residency despite how "dumb" some people may think I am for doing one.
     
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  20. gwarm01

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    I've always been a residency skeptic, but I'd never say you were dumb for doing one. Especially if it opened doors for you to practice in your dream location. After all, what is two years in a 30+ year career? If it takes you where you want to go, isn't it worth it?

    However, I do know someone who has a PGY2 and works as a staff pharmacist. That seems wasteful, but I guess you can't teach ambition.

    I guess my pie in the sky dream would be provider status becoming a real thing, and pharmacists getting some sort of limited prescriptive authority. In a world with advanced practice pharmacist (as seen in North Carolina and a few other states), there may actually be an abundance of opportunities for residency trained pharmacists to provide specialized patient care. That seems like a better prospect that the current system of requiring a PGY1 for a staff pharmacist position.
     
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  21. BidingMyTime

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    This. Many pharmacy residents just do it because 1) they think its impressive 2) they couldn't get the job they wanted in a big desirable city or 3) they have no confidence and want to prolong the school experience as long as possible. These are 3 bad reasons to do a residency.

    If someone has a clear-cut career path plan or clear-cut career goals, and residency is part of that plan, then it makes sense to do a residency. There is a place for residency, but at this point in time, most pharmacists don't need a residency.

    Doing a residency for the wrong reasons doesn't work: because its "impressive" (well, few people are going to be that impressed) or because they couldn't get a job in a desirable city (they probably aren't going to be able to get a job in that desirable city post-residency training either) or because they want to prolong the school experience (expensive path and they will still probably lack self-confidence at the end.)
     
  22. owlegrad

    owlegrad Uncontrollable Sarcasm Machine
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    If you only get feedback from people that have done a residency or two wouldn't you get selection bias?
     
  23. GoldfishPharmD

    GoldfishPharmD walking on a dream
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    But how do you give feedback on something you've never done before? I mean you can put your opinions but you'll never know unless you actually did it.
     
  24. owlegrad

    owlegrad Uncontrollable Sarcasm Machine
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    That is a good point. I guess if I wanted to know what residencies are like I would only want someone who has done a residency to tell me. If I wanted help deciding if I should do one or not, I would want people on both sides to give me advice. So I guess it just depends on what kind of info the person is looking for.
     
  25. GoldfishPharmD

    GoldfishPharmD walking on a dream
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    Yes, that's my opinion as well. Although I did two years, I don't think everyone should have to do a residency. I know great pharmacist that didn't do one and have friends that got their foot in the door in hospital pharmacy without one.
     
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  26. trailerpark

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    I think there's more pharmacists who regret going to pharmacy school than doctors who regret going to medical school so that argument is kind of moot to me at least.
     
  27. GoldfishPharmD

    GoldfishPharmD walking on a dream
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    Even if all doctors said they love their job, I still don't think that'd change my mind.
     
  28. confettiflyer

    confettiflyer Did you just say something?
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    Aren't physicians more likely to NOT recommend the medical profession in its entirety to their children?
     
  29. Digsbe

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    I think this is all becoming anecdotal... I know many pharmacists that wish they could go to med school because they feel limited in what they can do for patients when they know what to do for them, you learn so much through therapeutics and rotations yet in many cases by law you can't use that knowledge to make decisions. I know physicians who have told me not to go into medicine because even though the pay is good, working 55+ hours a week for your norm every week isn't worth it along with increasing regulations and corporations/hospitals encroaching into how you practice. If in pharmacy you worked and got paid for 55 hours a week as a pharmacist you'd likely easily make what a primary care doc makes and maybe even internists/hospitalists.

    I'm considering pharmacy residency, and also contemplating going retail and attempting to go MD/DO starting in 2017 if I really feel moved to do so. The only thing that frustrates me is that the additional training doesn't correlate to increased pay, and neither insurance companies or many states don't recognize your credentials to increase your scope of practice. I think states are moving towards this (as evident with California and APP), but until insurance companies get on board I don't see things changing since ultimately the money drives everything. I think residencies are good though, nearly all of my APP's are hospital based and very clinical in nature with nearly all my preceptors being residency trained pharmacists. I think the added year isn't a "scam" as you get to do more than in your APPE year as well as things being more intense.
     
  30. Farcus

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    everyone has their own opinion based on their experience but my experience at a top 20 cardiology hospital was pretty intense and definitely thought it might of been better not to do a residency but ultimately i'm glad I did. I don't think the OP asked about pay, they just asked for how the experience was guys. Average 60 hr a week n0t including weekends. You have your usual rounds, discussions, presentations, a couple journal clubs and a lot of projects. But like i said before the most important thing you get from residency training is ability to critically and clinically think about drug related issues and not some academic stuff that you can just google and find.
     
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  31. Dred Pirate

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    wrong and wrong
    and this is coming from someone with BCPS and no residency.
    They are far from equal - some places may say a minimum for a job is one or the other - but they are not equivalents as far as skill is concerned - two very different things
     
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  32. pillpharmer14

    pillpharmer14 pharmin' til' it's gone

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    True. Knowledge and experience are two very different things.
     
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  33. Farcus

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    Sorry to burst your bubbles, but BCPS is not a residency and it is not an equivalence, are you really that naive to think four damn ****ing letter behind your name suddenly give you all the damn clinical knowledge/experience to be a competent clinical pharmacist? Put it this way, if a medical student just graduated and became a medical doctor and you put him in an ICU with pts crashing left and right how well do you think he's gonna do compared to a seasoned intensivist?

    and also "What pharmacist really do in the hospital is make sure the dose is correct, match drug to indication, dose warfarin, dose vanco, dose aminoglycosides"
    I'm presuming you're still a student because it seems your train of thought is all very cookie cutter. You're right on the dose and dosing but it is not just always a simple look me lexicomp this drug. The post also asked for residents or residency trained pharmacist opinion I don't think you qualify as such.
     
    #32 Farcus, Aug 19, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2015
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  34. gwarm01

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    Three or four years of practice experience are required to sit for the board certification exams. I'll take a hospital pharmacist with four years of experience over a new PGY1 any day. Don't pretend like one year of training is something that could never be matched through a traditional career path.
     
  35. ProfessorXanax

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    Thanks for all the input! Wasn't concerned about pay, already know the difference between clinical and retail. How about specialties? Anyone live
    Love or hate anything in particular?

    Also, you don't need to have four years experience to receive your BCPS. I know a pharmacist that received their BCPS after his PGY1, right before his PGY2.

    I'm also thinking of either completing a residency to become an oncology pharmacist or complete law school to become a patent attorney. Thoughts on this?
     
  36. gwarm01

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    Board certification requirements vary based on specialty and residency. BCPS requires three years of practice if you don't complete a PGY1. Other areas require four years.
     
  37. strawberry606

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    If he got it after PGY1, he must have gotten it in Pharmacotherapy. That is the ONLY one of eight that only requires PGY1. Everything else need a few years before you can sit for it even after a PGY1 residency. I think, besides nuclear, all the rest lets you sit for it after a PGY2 (in the specialty). Anyway, so in theory, I think a residency is equivalent to experience (it is debatable as to whether or not it is true in practice). Without any residency, you have to put in 3 to 4 years in the field in order to get board certification. Look into it. ;)

    Anyway, I think it is smart to think about residency in your P2 year. I didn't think about residency at all. I only started thinking about it after I graduated and got licensed. LOL. ;) However, I personally don't think you know enough about any field to pick the field you want to specialize. I think that is the point of PGY1 (and even rotations, try getting a rotation in something you might enjoy for your P4 year). If you really want to specialize, nowadays, yes it is probably best to do a residency because it is difficult to get into a clinical setting without it (not impossible, but very difficult).

    Now, to address your oncology pharmacist question, fortunately for me, I networked a LOT and I just got a position as an oncology pharmacist without a residency. I think it is a great field. I am still new but I will try to answer any questions you may have. I do plan on staying at least four years because I do want to get board certified but hopefully, I will be doing this until I retire. In regards to patent attorney, you are talking to the right person. This is something that I researched myself. What are your exact questions about it? ;) To be completely honest though, you need to work on completing your degree first. While you are completing the degree, my only advice to you is network, network, network. LOL. Thinking about what you want to specialize in 4 years from where you are sitting is kinda fruitless because you never know what field you will end up enjoying. Network and pass your classes. In your P3 year, truly sit down and plan your rotations out. Then, in P4 year, figure out what you like/apply for a PGY1 residency. That is it. All the advice I got for you.

    Sorry about bad grammar. Really, really sleepy. :sleep:
     
  38. ProfessorXanax

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    Couldn't tell you about the certifications but I know for a fact he has "BCPS" after his name and he received this before his PGY2.

    Lol. Yeah I know I'm a little early in thinking about it but I never want to work in retail! I have worked at CVS in a high-volume setting and it was horrible and I work at HealthSpan now which is low-volume and although it's much better, it's still monotonous and not career-worthy for me. I agree with you though in that I will probably change my mind 100 times once my full rotations start. For the time being though, oncology is my preferred specialty :)

    That's great though, congrats! As far as questions, I'd like to know if you ever have time to just talk to the patient about their situation and try to comfort them? Not from a medical perspective but more of just a friend. That is something I would love to do with cancer patients. In addition, what is your typical workday like?

    About patent attorney, I'd like to know what the job outlook is like, particularly in the state of Ohio? Also, would I be working for a specific firm or work solo? Pharmacy school hasn't been too bad so far so I would possibly consider taking a law class or two if I could at the same time. If I decide on this route soon, obviously. I'm set up to meet with a professor at my school who is in charge of all of the pharmacy law classes here. He has his Pharm.D. and JD so that should shed some light on a few things. Thanks for the networking tip too! I have always been keen on meeting as many people as I can so I think I'm on the right track there.

    If you have any other gems to share with me please do! Your grammar was fine too, couldn't even tell you were sleepy! ;)
     
  39. LabrattoRx

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    Thanks for this helpful information-

    If anyone has time could they please enlighten me on the advantages that having publications in legitamite health research journals presents in obtaining a residency? I have come to love the "sciences" involved in a med/hospital setting, and having just gotten accepted to a top 50 Rx school, there is a chance of considering a residency path. Especially since I hope to bring my lab skills to Rx school. I too was debating medical school, but I have seen people get into an IM residency and then couldn't finish=no license. Yes it is rare, but, as a resident you are still the medical system's "bitch" so to speak. there is no way I could handle whatever "on call" is. Forget that.

    I'm not the best test taker so my GPA may not end up being magna cum laude, so as I enter into this field I wanted to get any perspectives on increasing my chances. My goal is not to be a gunner, but rather someone who has the best possible experience for during Rx school. Also, are residencies primarily suited for those wanting hospital and/or clinical jobs? I'd love to also work at HEB (I know sounds corny), do residencies help in retail?

    Thanks so much!

    Edit: I am a biochem undergrad and have an unexplainable affinity to drugs and med chemistry.
     
    #38 LabrattoRx, Dec 13, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2015
  40. gwarm01

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    Top 50 pharmacy school? Is this really a thing?
     
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  41. LabrattoRx

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    Yes, this means that out of the 130 or so accredited pharmacy schools, the particular school I was accepted to was quoted as being within the top 50 according to US news. I am not a proponent of such ranking systmes, but it is the only way to accurately depict to you all, that my school is a rather good one.
     
    #40 LabrattoRx, Dec 13, 2015
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  42. LabrattoRx

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    Do you have a response?
     
  43. LabrattoRx

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    Response please.

     
    #42 LabrattoRx, Dec 13, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2015
  44. gwarm01

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    I'm sorry, allow me to rephrase.

    Is this really a thing that people care about now? Top 50. Really tossing the net out wide with that one.
     
  45. LabrattoRx

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    You know, I saw the little red notification at the top of the screen, hoping that you something helpful to say. Perhaps, I should have used a wider aperature.
     
  46. gwarm01

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    I like you, kid. You've got a lot of energy.

    Do yourself a favor and don't bother with residency if you want to work retail. It's not necessary, and you will undergo a lot of stress and financial sacrifice for no real benefit. However, residency could be helpful in other community settings like in an ambulatory care clinic.

    If you have any real interest in research or utilizing your lab skills you will likely be disappointed at the opportunities afforded to you by the vast majority of pharmacists positions. Hell, that's also true for so called clinical pharmacy. I know many pharmacists who feel disappointed with the reality of pharmacy practice, myself included.
     
  47. LabrattoRx

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    Thank you for your response. My goals are to utilize my lab skills during pharmacy to help in obtaining a job at HEB or a hospital. I figure if I can publish this will give me an advantage over my classmates. What I haves een is that Rx and Med studnets don't have the time, or desire to step foot into a lab whilst there are many opportunites to do so. They would rather go to they gym.

    Thanks for the heads up about the pharmacy profession. I am ready to leave research as while it is fun to answer questions, dealing with grants and funding, interacting with less bright and professional colleagues, and my own personal reasons, I am ready to leave. Also, I don't want to be a boring old professor.

    I have (and probably you too) have an innate ability to handle calculations. I was fortunate to place out of differnetial and integral as well as multivariable calculus prior to undergrad, and completed linear algebra, advanced stats, and differential equations my freshman year of college. What I do believe is that this has inherently developed my own everyday mathematic abilities. Some neuroscientists see the world as electric impulses and define life thusly. I look at things in 3 coordinate planes filled with sigma and pi orbitals.

    Best of luck. Maybe an MBA (online) would be something you should consider. Many of my peers have completed one and seem to be able to find a deeper niche in their fields. Thank you for your correspondence. :)
     
    #46 LabrattoRx, Dec 13, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2015
  48. blackwolf2000

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    I've never heard of pharmacy school rankings until a few years ago. They are arbitrary and meaningless. Alas, kids nowadays all gotta be special snowflakes.
     
  49. blackwolf2000

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    You do know that only like a third of schools even reply to those questionnaires they send out, right? Same thing when they rank hospitals. They're about as phony as the last 10 pharmacy schools which have opened up.
     
  50. msweph

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    Any examples? Considering an MBA but don't want to be a manager

    Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk
     
  51. LabrattoRx

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    The schools who choose not to participate in this peer reviewed survey are listed as RNP. Usually the latter 40 or so schools wish to not participate. My decision to apply was based on a cultivation of options, not only on the US news ranking system, however, it did play some role unfortunately.

    I have stated that as long as one completes the prerequisites and can then complete 4 years of any accredited Rx school, they have a right to work as such. I do not mean to disparage your school, but:
     

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