Pharmacy to Optometry

[HouRPh]

I'm a 29 yr old Pharmacist residing in Houston. FYI: Single, no kids. I've been with a popular chain for 5 years. I'm experiencing retail burnout already & it's time for a change. I'm considering Optometry.

Now, I've read the threads about working for chains...and I'm not impressed. If I'm going to take superficial crap from managers, maintain my composure when unruly customers spit or use profane language, I might as well stay where I am at. Well, on the up side, I wouldn't have a drive-thru or a cash register to worry about.

Correct me if I'm wrong but optometrists don't seem as stressed.
Q: What is stressful, the rewards and not-so-enjoyable points of the field?

I'm taking prereq's this fall and next Spr...(calculus, psychology, biostat, etc). U. of Hou has an Optometry school & I want to apply after I'm complete.

Suggestions, pointers and thoughts are all welcomed.
Thank You.

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[RLK]

I'm a 29 yr old Pharmacist residing in Houston. FYI: Single, no kids. I've been with a popular chain for 5 years. I'm experiencing retail burnout already & it's time for a change. I'm considering Optometry.

Now, I've read the threads about working for chains...and I'm not impressed. If I'm going to take superficial crap from managers, maintain my composure when unruly customers spit or use profane language, I might as well stay where I am at. Well, on the up side, I wouldn't have a drive-thru or a cash register to worry about.

Correct me if I'm wrong but optometrists don't seem as stressed.
Q: What is stressful, the rewards and not-so-enjoyable points of the field?

I'm taking prereq's this fall and next Spr...(calculus, psychology, biostat, etc). U. of Hou has an Optometry school & I want to apply after I'm complete.

Suggestions, pointers and thoughts are all welcomed.
Thank You.

Whoa...people spit at you at a pharmacy? Did you kick some ass? I can see being professional, but if someone spits at you I think you have the right to kick some ass.

 

[KHE]

I'm a 29 yr old Pharmacist residing in Houston. FYI: Single, no kids. I've been with a popular chain for 5 years. I'm experiencing retail burnout already & it's time for a change. I'm considering Optometry.

Now, I've read the threads about working for chains...and I'm not impressed. If I'm going to take superficial crap from managers, maintain my composure when unruly customers spit or use profane language, I might as well stay where I am at. Well, on the up side, I wouldn't have a drive-thru or a cash register to worry about.

Correct me if I'm wrong but optometrists don't seem as stressed.
Q: What is stressful, the rewards and not-so-enjoyable points of the field?


Suggestions, pointers and thoughts are all welcomed.
Thank You.

Even in private practice, there is a substantial "retail" component to optometric practice. That is, most private practices make most of their money from the retailing of glasses of contact lenses. And because of this, there is a lot of "retail" mentality amongst patients. Unless you plan on workng for a VA hospital, you will have this wherever you go, though you might have it less in some practice modalities than others.

I no longer practice optometry. My sister is a pharmacist and she is/was way less stressed than I was when I practiced.

The "less stress" probably comes from the fact that as an OD, you make reasonable money helping people see better.

 

[RLK]

Even in private practice, there is a substantial "retail" component to optometric practice. That is, most private practices make most of their money from the retailing of glasses of contact lenses. And because of this, there is a lot of "retail" mentality amongst patients. Unless you plan on workng for a VA hospital, you will have this wherever you go, though you might have it less in some practice modalities than others.

I no longer practice optometry. My sister is a pharmacist and she is/was way less stressed than I was when I practiced.

The "less stress" probably comes from the fact that as an OD, you make reasonable money helping people see better.

What do you do now that you no longer practice optometry...or did you retire?

 

[KHE]

What do you do now that you no longer practice optometry...or did you retire?

I teach high school.

 

[RLK]

I teach high school.

hmmm. Did you hate being an optometrist?

 

[rpames]

I teach high school.

Thats funny that you left optometry to be a teacher, there are at least 3 students who left teaching to be ODs in my class.

 

[cpw]

Thats funny that you left optometry to be a teacher, there are at least 3 students who left teaching to be ODs in my class.

we had three or four teachers turned ODs in my class too !!

 

[beatstreet]

I teach high school.

i was thinking about going into teaching instead of optometry also. could you fill me in on the advantages and disadvantages of teaching as opposed to optometry?

 

[RLK]

For those of you interested in teaching, do you mean teaching at an optometry school? I thought one person said about teaching high school.

 

[beatstreet]

For those of you interested in teaching, do you mean teaching at an optometry school? I thought one person said about teaching high school.

teaching at a high school

 

[RLK]

teaching at a high school

I can't imagine teaching some of the a**holes that I went to high school with. What didn't you like about being an optometrist that made you want to change careers?

 

[KHE]

hmmm. Did you hate being an optometrist?

I wouldn't say I hated it. But I can't say I enjoyed it.

For those of you interested, you can read my story on the yahoo group "optometrysucks." Please note that I am NOT the moderator, and I do not particularly think optometry "sucks."

I just went in a different direction, and it has worked out well for me. The main reason that I posted on that group was to try to help people looking to switch out of optometry into a new field.

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/optometrysucks/message/264

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/optometrysucks/message/284

 

[RLK]

I wouldn't say I hated it. But I can't say I enjoyed it.

For those of you interested, you can read my story on the yahoo group "optometrysucks." Please note that I am NOT the moderator, and I do not particularly think optometry "sucks."

I just went in a different direction, and it has worked out well for me. The main reason that I posted on that group was to try to help people looking to switch out of optometry into a new field.

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/optometrysucks/message/264

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/optometrysucks/message/284

It looks like you have to be a member of the group to read your story. Maybe I'll join later and read it.

 

[kgrabar]

It looks like you have to be a member of the group to read your story. Maybe I'll join later and read it.

It only takes a second to join the yahoo optometrysucks group. I thought I'd send a message to those who haven't visited this site before. The story of the OD turned teacher is pretty interesting and it seemed like things have worked out much better for him. To each his own. I read through many of the posts a while ago, and at first I found them pretty disheartening. Then I realized that the main opponents were only a select few, and that in any field there will be unhappy people. I am glad I read through the posts to see the harsh reality of some issues and downfalls of optometry, just to better educate myself about the profession as a whole. While I am just about to start OD school, with these issues in the back of my mind hopefully over the 4 yrs I can form a plan to avoid certain bumps in the road to success.

 

[Ben Chudner]

It only takes a second to join the yahoo optometrysucks group. I thought I'd send a message to those who haven't visited this site before. The story of the OD turned teacher is pretty interesting and it seemed like things have worked out much better for him. To each his own. I read through many of the posts a while ago, and at first I found them pretty disheartening. Then I realized that the main opponents were only a select few, and that in any field there will be unhappy people. I am glad I read through the posts to see the harsh reality of some issues and downfalls of optometry, just to better educate myself about the profession as a whole. While I am just about to start OD school, with these issues in the back of my mind hopefully over the 4 yrs I can form a plan to avoid certain bumps in the road to success.

Let me give you another side of Optometry. I was born and raised in Los Angeles. I also knew I wanted to be an Optometrist from an early age (being a 9.00D myope probably played a big role). I went to UC Irvine for undergrad and then moved up north to graduate from Berkeley. That was in 1997. I always thought I would stay in California to practice even though it is very crowded and most of the recent grads I knew had to work in multiple locations to get 5 days of work. I ended up going to Miami to complete a residency at Bascom Palmer. From there, I knew there was no way I would return to California because of how restricted the license was at the time. That was the best thing that ever happened. Once I was willing to go to where the opportunities were, it opened up doors that would have been otherwise closed. I ended up in Washington State working for an OMD group. There was the potential for partnership, but it was not financially beneficial to me, so I looked around for other opportunities. I found an older doc that wanted to sell his practice and understoond that he would have to stay on for a couple of years to help with the transition. That was in August of 2001. He retired in August of 2004 and I just brought on another doctor last month. I have no problem getting on insurance panels, because in my state it is against the law to exclude OD's (any willing provider law). I see a lot of glaucoma and even get referrals for diabetic eye exams from the local MD's.

My point is, there are opportunities in Optometry, but sometimes you have to look for them. I thought California was the only place to live, but there are other places that can be just as satisfying. I am sure the teacher is very happy with his decision to switch careers and so that was the right thing for him. For me, there is nothing I would rather do for a living than practice optometry.

 

[HOLLYWOOD]

I'm a 29 yr old Pharmacist residing in Houston. FYI: Single, no kids. I've been with a popular chain for 5 years. I'm experiencing retail burnout already & it's time for a change. I'm considering Optometry.

Now, I've read the threads about working for chains...and I'm not impressed. If I'm going to take superficial crap from managers, maintain my composure when unruly customers spit or use profane language, I might as well stay where I am at. Well, on the up side, I wouldn't have a drive-thru or a cash register to worry about.

Correct me if I'm wrong but optometrists don't seem as stressed.
Q: What is stressful, the rewards and not-so-enjoyable points of the field?

I'm taking prereq's this fall and next Spr...(calculus, psychology, biostat, etc). U. of Hou has an Optometry school & I want to apply after I'm complete.

Suggestions, pointers and thoughts are all welcomed.
Thank You.

Well I would say running the business, seeing patients, and dealing with insurance companies is stressful. I don't find optometry rewarding and niether do most of my associates. What I probably dislike the most is seeing patients, what I like the most is running the business. Hope this helps.

 

[KHE]

It only takes a second to join the yahoo optometrysucks group. I thought I'd send a message to those who haven't visited this site before. The story of the OD turned teacher is pretty interesting and it seemed like things have worked out much better for him. To each his own. I read through many of the posts a while ago, and at first I found them pretty disheartening. Then I realized that the main opponents were only a select few, and that in any field there will be unhappy people. I am glad I read through the posts to see the harsh reality of some issues and downfalls of optometry, just to better educate myself about the profession as a whole. While I am just about to start OD school, with these issues in the back of my mind hopefully over the 4 yrs I can form a plan to avoid certain bumps in the road to success.

I found an older doc that wanted to sell his practice and understoond that he would have to stay on for a couple of years to help with the transition. That was in August of 2001. He retired in August of 2004 and I just brought on another doctor last month. I have no problem getting on insurance panels, because in my state it is against the law to exclude OD's (any willing provider law). I see a lot of glaucoma and even get referrals for diabetic eye exams from the local MD's. .

Let me point out a few things...

If you all want, I will post my story from optometrysucks on here so you don't have to join that group. Let me know if you would prefer that I do this. For those of you who haven't realized, I am the OD who turned teacher.

Dr. Chudner is lucky that he was able to get on plans. I too practiced in a state with an "any willing provider" law but that did not mean I could get on plans. The plans simply said that they were not accepting new providers. So while there might have been a few ODs on the plans, I was not. This is almost WORSE than the situation where all ODs are denied, because it almost becomes unfair competition. Like I said before, not being able to take insurances = patients not coming through your door. He's also lucky that he found one of the few remaining good ones because the number of older doctors out there who would gladly screw over a young doctor is HUGE. The notion of the benevolent old doctor who will mentor a young one is almost a non starter.

The best advice that I can give prospective students and students is to have a very specific plan of what you want to do when you are finished and then research to find out if it's feasable. Do this while in your third and fourth years. Most students have the idea that if they are willing to "work hard" and are "good doctors" and are "nice people" that they won't end up in commercial locations. That couldn't be further from the truth. The top two doctors in my class both work at Lenscrafters and they aren't nerds. They're talented people with good communication skills and pleasant bed side manner.

 

[KHE]

Well I would say running the business, seeing patients, and dealing with insurance companies is stressful. I don't find optometry rewarding and niether do most of my associates. What I probably dislike the most is seeing patients, what I like the most is running the business. Hope this helps.

This is almost a sure sign that you should be doing something else.

 

[Ben Chudner]

Well I would say running the business, seeing patients, and dealing with insurance companies is stressful. I don't find optometry rewarding and niether do most of my associates. What I probably dislike the most is seeing patients, what I like the most is running the business. Hope this helps.

I would agree with KHE. If you dislike seeing patients so much and you do not find optometry rewarding, this is not the career for you. I belong to a study group with several large practices throughout the country. While we all dislike the whole insurance game, we find our careers very rewarding. Sure, patients can be a pain at times, staff can cause headaches, and insurance companies make life difficult, but at the end of the day helping people and taking responsibility for their ocular health is rewarding. But that's us. Everyone needs to find what makes them happy, like KHE and pursue that. There is no single career choice that is right for everyone.

 

[Ben Chudner]

Dr. Chudner is lucky that he was able to get on plans. I too practiced in a state with an "any willing provider" law but that did not mean I could get on plans. The plans simply said that they were not accepting new providers. So while there might have been a few ODs on the plans, I was not. This is almost WORSE than the situation where all ODs are denied, because it almost becomes unfair competition. Like I said before, not being able to take insurances = patients not coming through your door. He's also lucky that he found one of the few remaining good ones because the number of older doctors out there who would gladly screw over a young doctor is HUGE. The notion of the benevolent old doctor who will mentor a young one is almost a non starter.

I don't know how lucky I am. Our state association has an insurance liaison that makes sure OD's are not excluded from plans. I have never heard of a plan saying that they are not accepting additional providers in Washington State. I am sure it happens elsewhere, even in other states with the any willing provider law. But that is my point. There are places where optometry is easier to practice, you just have to look for them. There are older docs that don't want to see their practice die after they retire, you just have to find them. There are banks that will finance young OD's, you just have to find them. I am not here to convince anyone on the merits of optometry as a career. I just want students to hear that for every horror story, there is a success story. Maybe luck plays a role, but to quote a line from my daughters favorite movie, The Incredibles, "Luck favors the prepared".

 

[KHE]

I am not here to convince anyone on the merits of optometry as a career. I just want students to hear that for every horror story, there is a success story. Maybe luck plays a role, but to quote a line from my daughters favorite movie, The Incredibles, "Luck favors the prepared".

The students on here would probably benefit from a specific description of what you did to "prepare" for the purchase and financing of this practice, and to find out that you would in fact be eligible for participation in these plans. Did you have a backup plan if you were not eligible?

I am also not here to advocate for or against optometry. For me, I found something that I'm very happy with and it has worked out well.

I don't get the comment about "for every horror story there is a success story."

I would think that after taking some of the brightest young minds in the country, and training them for years at a cost of hundreds of thousands of dollars, the number of horror stories would not be equal to the number of successes.

 

[RLK]

I would agree with KHE. If you dislike seeing patients so much and you do not find optometry rewarding, this is not the career for you. I belong to a study group with several large practices throughout the country. While we all dislike the whole insurance game, we find our careers very rewarding. Sure, patients can be a pain at times, staff can cause headaches, and insurance companies make life difficult, but at the end of the day helping people and taking responsibility for their ocular health is rewarding. But that's us. Everyone needs to find what makes them happy, like KHE and pursue that. There is no single career choice that is right for everyone.

That's the strange thing about working towards a career. You can shadow an optometrist or even work for one, but until you're actually the optometrist you can't actually know if it's what suits you. It's like that with any field though I think, not just optometry. I guess if you get into something you don't like then change careers if you can. If that's not possible then I guess you have to make the best of it. Fortunately for KHE, being single with no kids allows him a lot of flexibility.

 

[Ben Chudner]

I am also not here to advocate for or against optometry. For me, I found something that I'm very happy with and it has worked out well.

At the end of the day, that is the most important thing.

I don't get the comment about "for every horror story there is a success story."

I would think that after taking some of the brightest young minds in the country, and training them for years at a cost of hundreds of thousands of dollars, the number of horror stories would not be equal to the number of successes.

That is why I didn't say for every success story there is a horror story. I guess I could have said for every horror story there are five or ten success stories. What I was trying to say is that there are those that are not happy with optometry as a career, but there are plenty more that really enjoy it.

 

[Ben Chudner]

The students on here would probably benefit from a specific description of what you did to "prepare" for the purchase and financing of this practice, and to find out that you would in fact be eligible for participation in these plans. Did you have a backup plan if you were not eligible?

Those are very important questions, but before I answer, let me start by saying what worked for me may not work for other people. This is how I approached my particular situation and not necessarily a model for the best way to do it.

I worked in the area for 3 years before purchasing my practice. In that time I was able to get on all of the insurance panels. There was no concern about getting on panels because of this.

I have always been active in the state association as well as the local county optometric society, holding various positions including county society president. This allowed me to keep my ears open to practice opportunities rather than relying on other docs.

As far as financing goes, getting funding for an established practice is a lot easier than starting up cold. The doctor I was purchasing from had worked in the office for 30 years and had owned it for over 22 years. By having him stay on as an employee and hold a note for 20% of the purchase price, the SBA was doing cartwheels for my business. It also helped that I had been in practice for 4 years rather than fresh out of school.

The only thing I would do differently would be to work in the practice before purchasing it. Unfortunately, that wasn't possible for me, but I knew the practice reputation and was confident it was the type of practice I wanted to be in.

Hope that helps.

Ben

 

[HOLLYWOOD]

This is almost a sure sign that you should be doing something else.

I agree

 

[HOLLYWOOD]

I would agree with KHE. If you dislike seeing patients so much and you do not find optometry rewarding, this is not the career for you. I belong to a study group with several large practices throughout the country. While we all dislike the whole insurance game, we find our careers very rewarding. Sure, patients can be a pain at times, staff can cause headaches, and insurance companies make life difficult, but at the end of the day helping people and taking responsibility for their ocular health is rewarding. But that's us. Everyone needs to find what makes them happy, like KHE and pursue that. There is no single career choice that is right for everyone.

I would say that 8 out of 10 od's that I know would rather do something else.Let me be clear, the number that I'am stating is of od's that have been practicing more than 5 years. I find that the new grads like what they do. Now is that true of all professions ? I do not know.

 

[wrx04]

I would say that 8 out of 10 od's that I know would rather do something else.Let me be clear, the number that I'am stating is of od's that have been practicing more than 5 years. I find that the new grads like what they do. Now is that true of all professions ? I do not know.

What is it that these od's don't like about optometry?

 

[aubieRx]

spitting on someone is illegal. Its considered assault or battery or something.

I'm no lawyer someone who knows what they are talking about speak or forever hold your peace

 

[scraders]

spitting on someone is illegal. Its considered assault or battery or something.

I'm no lawyer someone who knows what they are talking about speak or forever hold your peace

huh? did i miss something?

 

[idoc2b]

HouRPh, since you have a PharmD degree, have you thought about moving into a pharmaceutical company or governmental agency? You could go into sales, research, regulatory...

With your degree you have a lot of options open to you and it may not be necessary to go back to school full-time for four years to find something you like.

 

[aubieRx]

huh? did i miss something?

the guy who started this thread mentioned he had customers spitting on him. If someone did that to me I would call the police because it is illegal.

 

[KHE]

If that's not possible then I guess you have to make the best of it. Fortunately for KHE, being single with no kids allows him a lot of flexibility.

I'm not sure where this idea came from.

I'm married with a toddler child.

 

[KHE]

I would say that 8 out of 10 od's that I know would rather do something else.Let me be clear, the number that I'am stating is of od's that have been practicing more than 5 years. I find that the new grads like what they do. Now is that true of all professions ? I do not know.

Why do you think this is?

What advice would you give current students to avoid the pitfalls that 8 out 10 of your friends have fallen into?

What do you think can or should be done to change it?

 

[HOLLYWOOD]

What is it that these od's don't like about optometry?

They think it's boring and the pay is low. They did not realize that they would be doing so much refractive stuff(glasses and contacts). Most of them like pathology and in most optometric practices there is not a lot of disease.My friends that work for MD's enjoy it slightly more, but they complain that it's a dead end job and the pay stinks because your just a tech.

 

[HOLLYWOOD]

Why do you think this is?

What advice would you give current students to avoid the pitfalls that 8 out 10 of your friends have fallen into?

What do you think can or should be done to change it?

I think students should know what they are getting into. For example you are a doctor but you wont get as much respect as a dentist or podiatrist.
2.Unless you own your own practice you'll never make a lot of money.
3.most students will work for someone and there is no growth.
4.How do you feel about working in costco?( I did it for 4 months 1 day per week and I hated it ,I WENT TO OPTOMETRY SCHOOL AND TOOK CLASSES WITH MED STUDENTS TO WORK AT COSTCO?)
5.There is a good chance you'll have to work saturday's
6.I hate that insurance companies dictate how much I get paid.
7. Most people want to see you for a refraction, so they can buy glasses or contacts. It gets boring quickly.
8.In my opinion I don't feel patients appreciate what I do for them. Even though a pt. of mine told me I was great today.
9.speak to as many practicing od's as possible. When I did that most of them told me to do something with my life. I should have listened.
10.You should know that I went into optometry b/c many of my family members were od's and I thought if it was good for them it will be good for me.WRONG! Also my father did very well as an od so I figured I could do the same.Wrong again. I dont want you to think that I'm poor b/c i'm not,I have 3 of my own offices and I run 2 of my dads .
11.pts no longer want to pay for services, ex. cl fittings, they expect their $10 co-pay to cover it. then they get their cls on-line.The journals try to teach you how to keep your pts. in cls, why do I want my pts in lenses I make more money w/ them in glasses.

 

[KHE]

I think students should know what they are getting into. For example you are a doctor but you wont get as much respect as a dentist or podiatrist.
2.Unless you own your own practice you'll never make a lot of money.
3.most students will work for someone and there is no growth.
4.How do you feel about working in costco?( I did it for 4 months 1 day per week and I hated it ,I WENT TO OPTOMETRY SCHOOL AND TOOK CLASSES WITH MED STUDENTS TO WORK AT COSTCO?)
5.There is a good chance you'll have to work saturday's
6.I hate that insurance companies dictate how much I get paid.
7. Most people want to see you for a refraction, so they can buy glasses or contacts. It gets boring quickly.
8.In my opinion I don't feel patients appreciate what I do for them. Even though a pt. of mine told me I was great today.
9.speak to as many practicing od's as possible. When I did that most of them told me to do something with my life. I should have listened.
10.You should know that I went into optometry b/c many of my family members were od's and I thought if it was good for them it will be good for me.WRONG! Also my father did very well as an od so I figured I could do the same.Wrong again. I dont want you to think that I'm poor b/c i'm not,I have 3 of my own offices and I run 2 of my dads .
11.pts no longer want to pay for services, ex. cl fittings, they expect their $10 co-pay to cover it. then they get their cls on-line.The journals try to teach you how to keep your pts. in cls, why do I want my pts in lenses I make more money w/ them in glasses.

You outlined the problems very well, and I agree with you on most of them.

But you didn't really offer advice for students to avoid this other than "know what you're getting into." Would you care to offer this advice or are you saying its unavoidable?

You also didn't have any suggestions on what could be done to improve the situation. Would you care to?

What would make your current situation better and/or what would make you happier?

 

[gsinccom]

thought it might be good to bring this thread back up as there have been some recently in the OD vs PharmD career direction self questioning...