PhD during residency?

[Sharn Penndroen]

Has anyone ever heard of someone getting a graduate degree during residency? It was just a thought and something I might consider trying if it is possible or feasible.

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[RxnMan]

I don't think it's possible to get a PhD during residency (though you may want to check out the APSA website for combined programs), but you can definitely complete a PhD during fellowship (see APSA site). Residency is just too great of a time commitment to have time to pursue a grad degree. Fellowships give you the protected time to pursue PhD-level work.

 

[Sharn Penndroen]

Thanks for the advice. That makes since.

 

[deuist]

I don't know about Ph.D.'s, but if you're looking for graduate programs, there are several places that will grant you an MPH as part of your work. My home institution has a four-year internal medicine/internal health track.

 

[amojan99]

I know of some neurosurgery residencies that allow you to pursue research projects during your research years and work towards a Ph.D. I think you may have to take an extra year to do it, but residents can definately get Ph.Ds during their residencies while in their research years. It's just a pain in the ass to do it.

 

[RxnMan]

I know of some neurosurgery residencies that allow you to pursue research projects during your research years and work towards a Ph.D. I think you may have to take an extra year to do it, but residents can definately get Ph.Ds during their residencies while in their research years. It's just a pain in the ass to do it.

There are 6-yr ortho and gen surg residencies where you can get a degree during your extra research year.

 

[nosugrefneb]

Depending on your field of interest, I would look into integrated, formal research and residency training programs, such as PSTPs offered by many IM programs. I question the value of a PhD both so late in your career and considering you will likely be doing a good amount of research during residency anyway. Nothing is going to match a PhD in terms of qualifications, but I don't know how much a PhD would add on top of one of these programs.

 

[Creightonite]

There are 6-yr ortho and gen surg residencies where you can get a degree during your extra research year.

what? PhD is a year, that's not fair. I am PhD --> MD and they do not give us discounts for being PhD's in med school.

 

[rapidprotocol]

PhD in most biology programs: 5-6 years

PhD while in med school (MSTP, MD-PhD): 3-4 years.

PhD after med school (PSTP, Residency-PhD): 1-2 years.

See a trend? More formal medical training = less time to get PhD.

My conclusion: having a medical training really gives you bargaining power in terms of selecting feasible projects, guaranteeing funding, and decreasing administrative barriers to move things along quicker. I am not convinced that more formal medical training equals "better" researcher.

 

[RxnMan]

what? PhD is a year, that's not fair. I am PhD --> MD and they do not give us discounts for being PhD's in med school.

I wasn't being specific - I didn't mean that surgeons could get a PhD in their research year of their 6-year program, rather, they could earn a MS, MPH, or ME. You can get those in a ~year.

The Clinical Scientist Training Programs that I've investigated all require a MD, NP, or similar to enter, and they take 3 years to complete. If you treat the clinical degree as you would a masters-level or basic grad course, then it makes more sense. e.g. Bio 500 is the basis for a Bio PhD, MD is the basis for a clinical research PhD.

Other anecdotal evidence: A fellow that I worked with was in a program where you could become a pulmonologist in 3 years, or stay on for another year and also get a PhD. But the pulm fellow program is

Yr 1: Clinical -> in the ICU
Yr 2: Full-time research
Yr 3: Mix of clinical with protected research time

Which, if you add on a year of pure research, starts to look lot like a doctoral program. So it's not out of the realm of possibility. And this is already after MD + 3 year IM residency!

Now if you want to know what is a real crying shame, I found out that MD/PhD'ers at my school don't have to take quals for their PhD!

 

[nosugrefneb]

Now if you want to know what is a real crying shame, I found out that MD/PhD'ers at my school don't have to take quals for their PhD!

Whaa? That would be...convenient.

 

[QofQuimica]

Now if you want to know what is a real crying shame, I found out that MD/PhD'ers at my school don't have to take quals for their PhD!

That's ok, I will make up for them by having taken TWO quals....once in my first program before I dropped out with my MS, and again at the second school where I finally finished the whole PhD. At least I passed both of my quals on the first try.

 

[jjmack]

Whaa? That would be...convenient.

that is amazing. I have never heard of that before. at my school we definately have to take our quals.

 

[RxnMan]

Whaa? That would be...convenient.

My school also clears out your debt for the 2nd half of the MD degree, which at this point, started to make it appealing. For about a day. Even after transferring in credits from my MS and shortening things, I'd still have to be here another 2 years. It's a nice here, but not that nice. And I want to get on to the next leg of my tour of America - I mean - residency!

 

[pseudoknot]

The UCLA STAR program allows you to get a PhD during some residencies, I believe. I only know one person myself who has done this, but she was already an attending when she went back for the PhD. However, I think that main purpose of the program is to do it during residency or fellowship.