PhD in Counseling Psychology

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

TMS@1987

Full Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
126
Reaction score
2
Hey guys, I wanted to ask you guys about PhD's in counseling psychology and what exactly the benifits are to the degree.

1) Do they tend to have the same privileges and respect as a clinical PhD?

2) What are the opportunities for teaching, compared to a clinical PhD?

3) What are good programs in the northeast (NY/NJ) region?

4) Has anyone heard anything about the counseling psychology PhD program at Fordham University?

Thanks for your time and I hope that my questions weren't too broad for you guys to be able to answer.

Members don't see this ad.
 
Hi,

Counseling psych is similar to clinical psych, but they work with less severely MI patients. In the end (after licensing) you will have the same license at a clinical psych.
Counseling programs tend to me a little less reserach focused than clinical, and a little easier to get into. Fordham and Columbia both have very good programs, and Seton Hall in NJ is okay as well.
With that said, many people apply to both clinical and counseling programs.
 
Hey guys, I wanted to ask you guys about PhD's in counseling psychology and what exactly the benifits are to the degree.

1) Do they tend to have the same privileges and respect as a clinical PhD?

2) What are the opportunities for teaching, compared to a clinical PhD?

3) What are good programs in the northeast (NY/NJ) region?

4) Has anyone heard anything about the counseling psychology PhD program at Fordham University?

Thanks for your time and I hope that my questions weren't too broad for you guys to be able to answer.

Hi. I think I know that the answer to the first 2 questions is "YES". Unfortunately, I have no information about particular programs. You need to look yourself for the programs you like . All APA accredited programs still have slightly different perspectives.

Here is what APA counseling psychology division 17 says: http://www.div17.org/students_differences.html

And some stats from the Bureau of Labor Statistics (updated: http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos056.htm

Good luck! :luck:
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Do any of you know what the deal is with financial assistance in counseling psychology PhD programs? Is it comparable to clinical psychology PhD programs?
 
Ditto regarding the funding question.

Also: Without research experience -- does it still make sense to apply?

Thanks,

Compassionate1
 
Ditto regarding the funding question.

Also: Without research experience -- does it still make sense to apply?

Thanks,

Compassionate1

I definitely wouldn't apply to Counseling Psych programs like UF, Maryland, Miss-Columbia, or Iowa State without research experience. Even at more practice-oriented places, there will be applicants with research experience, and they will tend to beat out someone without any.
 
Do any of you know what the deal is with financial assistance in counseling psychology PhD programs? Is it comparable to clinical psychology PhD programs?

Texas A&M offers a very nice package for their Counseling Ph.D. students, and I would have gone to that program had it not been for USUHS at the last moment falling into my lap. Nearly all Ph.D. programs expect you to have research experience.

Counseling Ph.D. programs like other programs vary quite a bit, both in funding and relative prestige. It is certainly possible to come from a counseling program that is more respected than a clinical program and vice versa. I think that you'll find that most counseling Ph.D. programs offer a different focus than clinical Ph.D. programs but the difference is a subtle one but some would argue an important one.

You can most certainly find yourself doing the same work as a clinical Ph.D., just as a clinical Ph.D. might find themselves among counseling Ph.D.'s. Training opportunities are quite similar in both fields and internship sites are sought through the same APPIC system traditionally.

Mark
 
Does anyone know if the admissions requirements are similar to a PhD in clinical. I understand that you need some research experience, but do they place more value on research that on practice? Or more value on practical experience than on research?

Also, I am in my junior year right now at a small 4 year college in NY. I will hopefully be assisting a professor at my school with some research that she's doing on a new therapeutic recreation model that she invented in September, and I am currently volunteering in a semi-clinical capacity at a nursing home working with elderly residents with sever dementia. I am also hunting down an internship at a family resourcescenter near my home. My GPA is 3.52, with my psych GPA going well over that (I don't have a number, but the only classes I haven't gotten and A in are statistics and Psychology of Women, both I got a B or B+ in). I am a member of Psi Chi, and am an on-again off-again member of my schools psychology club. Do any of you have any suggestions on how to increase my chances for accptance?

P.s. when should I begin to prepare for the GRE? My adviser isn't helping me because she wants me to go into an MSW program that she helps run so I can't rely on her anymore.
 
"P.s. when should I begin to prepare for the GRE? "

Many GRE prep book recommend around 12 weeks, if I am not mistaken. But I would say that it varies and would mainly depend on your base score ( when you take a sample test ) and the gap between it and your target score. You can check the various programs' website for information on average GRE scores of admitted students and/or cutoffs, which would give you a realistic estimate of how hard you will have to work in order to get the desirable score that is needed for a particular program of choice.

I would like to try and get into Rutgers, where the GRE average is high, so I know I will have to work long and hard to prepare for GREs. To me, the advantage of doing that, is that if I end up getting a lower score than I was aspiring for, at least it may still be solid / good enough for most other programs.

Another plus to taking a sample test is that it can help you assess your areas of relative strength and weakness and guide you in what you should be working on and what you should try to consolidate.

Acquiring a vast vocabulary does require time and practice. The math on the Gre is supposed to be quite elementary but is masked by a somewhat sophisticated presentation.

Also, many PhD / PsyD programs require that you take the Psychology ( subject) GRE which is only offered three times a year. So it's important to be aware of dates of plan accordingly. Good luck!

""My adviser isn't helping me because she wants me to go into an MSW program that she helps run so I can't rely on her anymore. "

Perhpas it's time for a new advisor / mentor?

The importance of the right mentor cannot be underestimated!

Compassionate1
 
Does anyone know if a wealth of teaching experience ( out of which -- five years are in the academia, teaching various psychology courses) can compensate for a lack of research?

What type of programs ( PhD. clinical? counseling? Psyd?) are most likely to consider it an asset / plus?

Would my teaching experience give me ANY advantage in the application process, or is it quite useless without research experience?

Thanks!

Compassionate1
 
I just interviewed at a counseling phd place and they asked me the difference. One of the things I said was not as severe patients, and the prof there said it was a myth (which I don't think is true). So just don't say that if you're asked that. He said the difference was just a difference in a viewing of how to treat patients or look at their issues. He seemed to think counseling was more holistic or looked at the client developmentally or something.

Psi chi says " However, clinical psychologists more frequently favored the behavioral and psychoanalytic (but not psychodynamic) persuasions, and counseling psychologists the client-centered and humanistic traditions."

http://www.psichi.org/pubs/articles/article_73.asp

I get the impression it is less prestigious according to some, but more prestigious than the psy.d. (overall). I wouldn't put much emphasis on that though.
 
I was told that it would be easier to get accepted to counseling psychology programs, because they have fewer applicants. Several years ago I noticed that one counseling PhD program I was interested in had a 50% acceptance rate - at a well-known university (listed in their stats on their website for the previous year), but they have had a lot more applicants the last few years than they did that year (2003, I think). I wonder if those programs are less visible, and thus have fewer applicants. They have been harder for me to find, and I didn't know that some universities had a counseling PhD in addition to clinical, until someone told me that they did. But that may be changing too.

It appears that clinical and counseling students may be in a few classes together, and might take electives from the other program. One thing that I like a little less about counseling programs is that many of them are located in an Education department rather than a Psychology department, and sometimes the degree for counseling is Ed.D. rather than Ph.D., but the license is still the same, so ultimately it shouldn't make that much difference. Another training difference seems to be that more counseling programs either require a master's degree before beginning, or allow credit and a shorter completion time for those who enter with a master's degree.

I think that often being located in an Education department reflects the main difference in philosophy between the two. Counseling focuses more on learning, development, and the strengths within the individual, while Clinical focuses more on the pathology and mental illness. However, at least in the programs I have looked at, it seems that the Counseling departments focus on adults and the university counseling centers for students, while Clinical departments are more likely to focus on broader populations, with more opportunities for experience with children, older adults, etc.

Both have plusses and minuses.
 
Hey all-

I applied to Counseling Psychology Ph.D.'s (and the 3 Psy.D.'s) this year. Honestly, I did choose Counseling because of the developmental approach and there is a bit more of a holistic perspective. Clinical Psychologists do tend to work with more severe populations, but less so than in the past - now Clinical & Counseling Psychologists are mostly at the same settins.

Some are less competitive than Clinical Ph.D.'s and some are not. There are some insanely-competitive Counseling Ph.D.'s. There are also more Multicultural Competence emphasis placed in Counseling Psychology programs than Clinical.

Jon
 
so in terms of a job after grad school/internships....would counseling psychologists be applying to the same internship sites as clinical psychologists?
 
so in terms of a job after grad school/internships....would counseling psychologists be applying to the same internship sites as clinical psychologists?

In general, yes they would. That said, I believe you'll find a higher proportion of counseling psych interns at counseling centers, and a higher proportion of clinical psych folks interning at hospitals. The bottom line, however, is that the two training routes are more alike than they are different. You can get to similar places with either path.
 
Does anyone know if a wealth of teaching experience ( out of which -- five years are in the academia, teaching various psychology courses) can compensate for a lack of research?

What type of programs ( PhD. clinical? counseling? Psyd?) are most likely to consider it an asset / plus?

Would my teaching experience give me ANY advantage in the application process, or is it quite useless without research experience?

Thanks!

Compassionate1

Are we talking "Only 1-2 years of run-of-the-mill RA work" lack of research experience, or are we talking "Never seen the inside of a lab" lack of research?

Teaching experience is certainly a positive on an application, and it sounds like your experience was quite extensive. At the more competitive clinical PhDs, you can have all the teaching experience in the world but with no research experience you are still very unlikely to even get an interview. Beyond that, how it balances out will probably vary a great deal between programs, and even between individual faculty members within programs. As for PsyDs? Hard for me to say, though I would guess no since they aren't focused on producing academics. That said, depending on what sort of PsyD programs you'd want to go to, acceptance standards might be much lower on average than a traditional program (not trying to start another flame war...its just reality if you look at the data on professional schools, where the PsyD model is far more prevalent) so even if its not absolutely coveted experience it might be enough to get you in.

I doubt you'll find a large variability in terms of value of teaching experience between clinical and counseling programs. From what I've seen the only real difference in admissions is that clinical tends to be slightly more competitive (emphasis on slightly), probably due to larger numbers of applicants. Obviously, there are differences in terms of how well you "fit" with each model, but its not like one is looking for vastly different things than the other. I'd have been a miserable candidate for most counseling programs because my interests are heavy on things like cognitive neuroscience and counseling psych research trends more towards the social psych domain, though obviously exceptions exist.
 
Last edited:
Are we talking "Only 1-2 years of run-of-the-mill RA work" lack of research experience, or are we talking "Never seen the inside of a lab" lack of research?

Hey Ollie,

Thanks for taking the time to read and respond. Sadly, more as in the latter... ( for reaons and some background, please feel free to read my original post on the Dr/advisor thread, last week. Sorry, unsure how to post that link).


Teaching experience is certainly a positive on an application, and it sounds like your experience was quite extensive. At the more competitive clinical PhDs, you can have all the teaching experience in the world but with no research experience you are still very unlikely to even get an interview.

I know. I realize I will have to apply to a combination of PsyD programs, counselling PhD programs and a few practise-emphasis clinical PhD programs.


Beyond that, how it balances out will probably vary a great deal between programs, and even between individual faculty members within programs. As for PsyDs? Hard for me to say, though I would guess no since they aren't focused on producing academics. That said, depending on what sort of PsyD programs you'd want to go to, acceptance standards might be much lower on average than a traditional program (not trying to start another flame war...its just reality if you look at the data on professional schools, where the PsyD model is far more prevalent) so even if its not absolutely coveted experience it might be enough to get you in.

I intend to do my personal best and then let go. I am a fairly spiritual person and believe that we make the efforts but ultimately, what is meant to happen -- will. I have a wealth of life unique experiences, which may or may not make up for the absence of the more traditional experiences that are expected from applicants ( Nothing exotic, but I 've lived in three different continents and overcame many difficult circumstances). I think that I am a mature individual, with academic strengths and a good clinical potential. Will these come through when I apply? I certainly hope so, but I guess I won't know unless I try....


I doubt you'll find a large variability in terms of value of teaching experience between clinical and counseling programs. From what I've seen the only real difference in admissions is that clinical tends to be slightly more competitive (emphasis on slightly), probably due to larger numbers of applicants. Obviously, there are differences in terms of how well you "fit" with each model, but its not like one is looking for vastly different things than the other. I'd have been a miserable candidate for most counseling programs because my interests are heavy on things like cognitive neuroscience and counseling psych research trends more towards the social psych domain, though obviously exceptions exist.

Although I have an interest in neuroscience as well, life is short and one has to choose... so I've decided that what I am mainly interested in is the developmental / wellness approach. I am eclectic but with quite a dose of huministic / client-centered emphasis, so I think that in this sense I would make a good fit to counselling programs. I am worried about the funding though. The three apa accredited programs in my area: Columbica, NYU and Fordham do not seem to be well-funded. But I could be wrong. If anyone has information to the contrary, kindly enlighten.

Compassionate1

 
NYU is fully funded. I interviewed there and I believe you get a $23,000 stipend. However, they only accept four students.

Also, I saw you were looking for clinical experience, Compassionate. As long as you don't mind unpaid work, you will definitely be able to find some in NYC. If you're interested in group work, there are many places where you can co-run groups and receive supervision.
 
NYU is fully funded. I interviewed there and I believe you get a $23,000 stipend. However, they only accept four students.

Also, I saw you were looking for clinical experience, Compassionate. As long as you don't mind unpaid work, you will definitely be able to find some in NYC. If you're interested in group work, there are many places where you can co-run groups and receive supervision.

Hi Olivia,

Thanks for the info on NYU. I was under the misguided impression, that as a rule, NYU is not known to be overly generous as far as funding goes....But I would be glad to be wrong!

4 people ( out of how many?) does make the odds of getting in shrink considerably but maybe worth a try.

As for the clinical work with groups -- that's what I am considering right now. Thanks!

Compassionate1
 
Although I have an interest in neuroscience as well, life is short and one has to choose... so I've decided that what I am mainly interested in is the developmental / wellness approach. I am eclectic but with quite a dose of huministic / client-centered emphasis, so I think that in this sense I would make a good fit to counselling programs. I am worried about the funding though. The three apa accredited programs in my area: Columbica, NYU and Fordham do not seem to be well-funded. But I could be wrong. If anyone has information to the contrary, kindly enlighten.

Compassionate1


LIU PhD gives partial funding, St. Johns fullish funding (tuition + small stipend), funding is short at Yeshiva (PhD and PsyD, but there are a few fellowships floating around), I've heard Seton Hall has decentish funding....
 
University of California at Santa Barbara has a great program...
 
Top