PhD or MPH in Public Health?

[neu_psy_phy]

I am in dire need of advice from some of you who are more experienced in the field of public (mental) health. I need to make a final decision in a few weeks! Please take a moment to read me.

I got accepted to these three great programs;

• Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health - PhD (Dept. of Mental Health)
• Columbia MPH in Dept. of Sociomedical Sciences - Social Science Research in Public Health track
• Yale School of Public Health - MPH in Health Policy and Administration

In terms of the financial stuffs, I haven't received a definite answer, but Hopkins will give 75% tuition waiver after 6 terms of successful performance (a personal desk and computer provided), I applied for a 50% scholarship at Columbia (decision will be notified in three days), and I haven't gotten any letter of financial assistance from Yale. I am an international student, so I assume that there will be no governmental sponsorship for me. I think that PhD students, in general, have better chance to be TA, RA, etc?

About me: I am a senior at a small liberal arts school, and my concentration/research has been on public mental health and cultural studies. I want to choose a graduate program that will prepare me to be knowledgable in mental health policy, services, education, advocacy... I imagine myself to be a researcher in (non)profit organization, government, or university, and also seek to apply that knowledge to the community. Some of my research interests are stigma associated with mental illness, different cultural understanding of mental disorders, mental illness and poverty, and implementing successful mental health services in various international locations. In sum, my interests are pretty broad at this point, so I wonder if it is good to go straight for a PhD and focus, or go for MPH and leave some room to decide upon specific professional directions later.

I visited Hopkins and not yet Columbia or Yale. It seems like Hopkins is a very research intensive school, and I don't know how many Hopkins students care about social justice in general. When I visited Hopkins, it seemed like advisors are rarely available for students (this is such a contrast from my current school). I have heard from acquaintances that Hopkins students tend to be insipid about cultural and social issues. I heard Columbia is committed to applied public health, and I am particularly interested in "Center for the Psychosocial Study of Health and Illness". Considering that I am interested in mental health policy, Yale may be a good match, too, because there are a few professors who are focusing on those topics. What do you suggest that I do?

Thanks for reading this. I'll wait for your replies.

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[namazu]

It looks like you have several good options, as you noted. My gut sense is that you'd probably be happiest at Columbia.

Hopkins is very research intensive, that's for sure, but keep in mind that most public health research is "applied" in some way. I know several people who are in the mental health program at Hopkins, some of whom would probably be happy to address any specific questions you might have about that department. The fact that Hopkins has a whole department devoted to mental health (and another to health behavior) may be a strength if you're sure you want to focus on mental health issues.

There are definitely people at Hopkins (both faculty and students) interested in social justice. There are a couple of certificate programs in related areas (which many PhD students complete during their studies): Health and Human Rights and Health Disparities and Health Inequality. You can look at the courses and the faculty who teach them for a better idea of the work in this area - you'll see that they're scattered throughout several departments. There are also some student groups focusing on human rights, health disparities, social justice, etc. in Baltimore and globally.

However, I think Columbia is probably stronger in "social justice" as a thrust of research, overall, and the Social Sci. track may offer you a more cohesive program if that's your major area of interest. In general, I think they tend to do more social-epidemiology type things and qualitative research. One friend of mine decided to go to Columbia for a PhD after doing an MPH at Hopkins because there were more opportunities in that area. The research center you mentioned in your post sounds like it might be a great fit for you - see if you can talk to some people (students or faculty) associated with it, and find out what they work on and if it sounds interesting.

Health policy will be a slightly different animal from the other two, I think, though all of these fields are interconnected. If you pursue a policy and administration track, the emphasis will be on evaluating the effectiveness and efficiency of health policy decisions and programs, rather than on assessing the "how" and "why" behind patterns of (mental) health and illness. In general, since you said you want to be an applied researcher (not an administrator), I think you might be better off getting a degree in one of the more "researchy" tracks (Hopkins or Columbia). (Not that policy research isn't research, it's just a different kind of research. And I think it's probably easier to transition from "researchy" MH research to MH policy research than the other way around...if that makes any sense at all...)

I'm not knocking Yale, and perhaps people in that program can provide more insight, but I think Columbia or Hopkins would probably be a better bet. I think you might be wise to start off with an MPH first, which will give you job opportunities right away, but also leave open the option of getting a PhD later on, when you have a better idea of what types of research questions and approaches interest you most. (In that case, Columbia might be your best option.) Check out the faculty websites in the relevant programs at each school, if you haven't already, and try to get in touch with potential mentors whose work interests you. Information they provide (and the general enthusiasm level they project) may help solidify your decision.

And do check up on the funding issues. Hopkins' tuition discount is a good deal, but you'll still owe $8000 a year even after the discount, which is a lot. It sounds like TA and RA jobs are relatively easy to come by, which will help, but you're limited to 20 hrs./week in those jobs, so you'll mostly be working to pay off the rest of your tuition. Columbia is also expensive (though if you get the 50% discount, that helps a lot), but remember that the MPH program is much shorter, so you're not locked into owing so much money, and if affording it becomes more of a problem, you'll be done and it won't matter. That's not true with a PhD. Hopefully the schools will come through with some funding for you; otherwise, be sure to secure some money to start the program, and start looking for a TA or RA job as soon as you choose a school to increase your chances of getting something. (But many jobs probably won't be listed until the fall.)

Good luck deciding!

 

[neu_psy_phy]

I really appreciate your response, namazu. It definitely helped me to have insight. Do you mind if I ask a few questions to people you know (can be just one or two persons) at Hopkins mental health program? I will be happy to exchange contact information and learn more about the program.

I haven't decided whether I should attend the admitted students' day at Hopkins or not, which is this coming Friday. It may be a good opportunity to meet and talk to peope, but I would have to drive for about ten hours... So, I would much prefer to contact faculty members and graduate students online/on phone, in case I decide not to attend the accepted students' day.

 

[namazu]

Sure. You can either post them here or send me a private message, and I'll pass them along to my various "informants".

My friend who's doing the PhD at Columbia was more into social/behavioral approaches to infectious disease prevention, so that's not so much your area. But I can ask around and see if anyone knows anyone looking at mental health/policy/etc. at Columbia.

I'm going to go to the Visitors' Day at Hopkins this Friday, so if you do decide to come, maybe we (and any other SDN'ers!) can go get coffee.

 

[jasmine2018]

if you have questions about Columbia's program, let me know - I went there for my degree. Mental health/neuro, etc is Columbia's specialty and the range of work extends from research to policy to advocacy. They work extensively with NYC's homeless population (there is a homeless shelter they work with right across the street from the school) and because there are so many non-profits that work with this population in the city, you'll have access to great resources. I LOVED my time at Columbia so if you have questions, let me know. Also, Columbia's close ties with the NYC Dept of Health and Mental Hygiene also allows you to get great experience working with a city agency in this area of public health.

 

[neu_psy_phy]

jasmine2018- It's great to hear that you had a positive experience at Columbia! Do you know where the graduates of SMS Social Science Research track go afterwards?

On the website, it says "the Social Science Research track prepares students to participate as members of research teams, enabling them to contribute to various phases of research, such as data collection and data analysis. This track is recommended for students who plan to pursue doctoral studies or postdoctoral studies or for postdoctoral students who plan to pursue research careers."

I am pretty sure I will ultimately go for postdoctoral studies, but if I were to pay off my debt ASAP (from two years of my study at Columbia) I would like to work a few years before getting a PhD. What are the job prospects after graduating from this program? What organizations do people work for afterwards? Do most students intend to earn MD, PhD, or DrPH?

Also, how do MPH students balance between course work and their own thesis (I assume "publishable master's essay" is referring to thesis)? Are professors supportive of students who want to design their own research? How are students paired up with advisors? Is it quite common that MPH students get involved with the Centers in SMS, such as, Center for the Psychosocial Study of Health and Illness?

I'm trying to compare the living cost between Baltimore and NYC. Is the living cost in NYC much more expensive? At least I won't have to drive a car if I were to live in NYC... This is just out of curiosity, but are there graduate school housings with "community shared agriculture" type of theme where people get a bunch of fresh veggies and cook together? That will be pleasant and also be a great way to save food cost.

 

[neu_psy_phy]

I just sent you a private message with my contact information. I'll be up for coffee/tea, if I do decide to drive there from Massachusetts... By any chance, is anyone willing to car-pool?

Sure. You can either post them here or send me a private message, and I'll pass them along to my various "informants".

My friend who's doing the PhD at Columbia was more into social/behavioral approaches to infectious disease prevention, so that's not so much your area. But I can ask around and see if anyone knows anyone looking at mental health/policy/etc. at Columbia.

I'm going to go to the Visitors' Day at Hopkins this Friday, so if you do decide to come, maybe we (and any other SDN'ers!) can go get coffee.

 

[AndrewJ42]

oh please don't drive....i just did that drive (both ways...from DC to Boston and back...it was horrible)...really and plus you spend about 20-30 bucks on tolls on the way down and plus gas prices are rising...you may pay a bit more flying...but it's oh so much better (it took my 10 hours to get from Boston to DC on a Sunday...I hate NYC traffic)

 

[jasmine2018]

Many of the graduates end up going on to PhD programs in social science research or in social epidemiology. A number also go on to work first since it is definitely recommended and highly encouraged to get work experience in the area before moving on. That work experience ranges from working at the Dept of health, doing fellowships at the CDC, working for a number of the non-profits, working for NYAM (NY Academy of Medicine - you should definitely look into their research since they do a lot of work in mental health and many graduates and students work with NYAM). There is also a lot of student involvement in the centers you mentioned, and at least in my opinion, the faculty is very accessible and supportive of the students (that's why I loved it there). Advisors are generally paired with students depending on interest, but also know that this advisor may not necessarily be who you will do your thesis with. You can work with others if you'd like and for the most part, picking who you will work with is driven by the student (I picked my faculty chair for my thesis because I was interested in her research).

Anyway, many of the students who go on for their PhD go on to outstanding social science or social epi programs (Harvard, Michigan, Columbia, Hopkins, etc) so I think that's a testament to the strength of the SMS program at Columbia. In terms of balancing coursework and thesis-writing, when I was writing my thesis, I was barely taking any classes since most coursework is completed in the first year and a half. The final semester is when you go into full thesis-writing mode. I also never found problems balancing school with work and social life - as long as one has good time management skills. Also, if you really love what you are doing (like I did), then it never really feels like work.

Finally, as for living in NYC, yes it is definitely more expensive than Baltimore, but frankly in my opinion, I'd rather pay more to live in such a diverse city like NYC with unlimited resources culturally, socially, educationally, etc. I really do feel I learned as much about social science research by living in the city as much as by attending Columbia. Also, NYC need not be expensive if you are creative - LOTS of free stuff going on all the time (i.e. concerts, shows, museums, and other events - esp with student discounts) so I really never felt like I was scrounging for money. Just be strategic with your spending - and yes, ditch the car - you don't need it there. As for 'community-shared agriculture' - it's not something instituted in grad student housing, but a lot of people do it - very popular in NYC. I know students that did that, but it wasn't associated with the university in any way - I think it's something they did on their own.

Anyway, sorry so long. Feel free to PM me or just post with any other questions.

 

[jasmine2018]

Oh and if you can visit Columbia before deciding, that may be best.

 

[MKCall]

neu_psy_phy - did you apply for the community scholars program scholarship? did you hear back from the SMS department about it?

 

[neu_psy_phy]

I did hear back from the community scholars program. They only selected four scholars out of 40 competitive applicants. They emailed us on March 15th, I think. You should call to check if you got it or not.

neu_psy_phy - did you apply for the community scholars program scholarship? did you hear back from the SMS department about it?

 

[werd814]

neu_psy_phy

Congratulations on your dilemma! It'll be a hard decision, but it doesn't seem liek you can go wrong =).

I had a brief question for you though. I'm a student at a small liberal arts school myself and very sinterested in the three programs
you were accepted to. Anyways, I was wondering, if you feel comfortable doing so, if you could give me an idea of your course study at your LAC, your GPA/GRE scores, and research experiences. I'm just interested because I think that ifno would help me hone on this path in my final two years of college.

Thanks, and best of luck with your decisions!

 

[neu_psy_phy]

Hello - werd814,

It will be a long list if I were to list everything I've done during my LAC years... I've studied many things from premedical studies (completed), neuroscience, psychology, cultural studies, microeconomics to world politics. I was able to create my own concentration, so I called it Public Mental Health and Cultural Studies, which more or less included every aspect of my coursework. I'm talking about a school with very unique educational system. If you want to know more about it, feel free to PM me.

In terms of experiences, I kept myself busy during summer and winter breaks to do research (neuroscience to psychology), community services, language studies, etc. I was active at various student groups, too. Basically, I just did what I wanted to do (thankfully I AM allowed to do whatever I want at this school, VERY liberal. haha), so I am not sure if this will be a good example for others. My GPA was 3.78 (this is a partial GPA, because my school is evaluation based with no grades, but I was allowed to take classes at other competitive schools in the area.) and GRE was v. 610 and m. 660 which isn't very high.

Good luck, and hope it helped.

neu_psy_phy

Congratulations on your dilemma! It'll be a hard decision, but it doesn't seem liek you can go wrong =).

I had a brief question for you though. I'm a student at a small liberal arts school myself and very sinterested in the three programs
you were accepted to. Anyways, I was wondering, if you feel comfortable doing so, if you could give me an idea of your course study at your LAC, your GPA/GRE scores, and research experiences. I'm just interested because I think that ifno would help me hone on this path in my final two years of college.

Thanks, and best of luck with your decisions!

 

[experi-Mental-ist]

Oh my...if only I could get into Johns Hopkins School of Public Health - PhD (Mental Health). Any tips on the application process? I'll be applying this fall.