PhD scientist looking for advice on medical school

[goldenstats]

Hello all-

I am feeling a bit defeated and seeking some advice from fellow nontraditional SDNers.

I am 36 y.o. with a PhD in epidemiology (3.9 gpa), masters in math stats, and undergrad in math (cumulative gpa~ 3.6, science~3.5). My most recent MCAT (took it previously several years ago and scores was 24Q) was a 23R (vr 7, ps 8, ps 8) Ughhhh! I've worked in the science and research field for over 16 yrs but really want to go to medical school. I have a solid career background with several publications under my belt, clinic and basic research experience, and solid LORs. I just seem to freeze when taking the MCAT!

What to do? Any advice from other non-trad pre-meds?

thanks!

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[dotdash]

Sorry, have no advice on the MCAT, although I'm sure you will find a lot of that on other threads. Here's my question: if you have a PhD in epidemiology and a stats background, why go to medical school? Med schools (and everywhere else) are dying for biostatisticians -- you could go to any med school or pharmaceutical company and work on any kind of project you wanted, including doing the same research you would as a research MD. Adn you could do it now, without the work, the debt, and the hassle of med school. Do you really, really hate stats or really really love working with patients?

 

[goldenstats]

Sorry, have no advice on the MCAT, although I'm sure you will find a lot of that on other threads. Here's my question: if you have a PhD in epidemiology and a stats background, why go to medical school? Med schools (and everywhere else) are dying for biostatisticians -- you could go to any med school or pharmaceutical company and work on any kind of project you wanted, including doing the same research you would as a research MD. Adn you could do it now, without the work, the debt, and the hassle of med school. Do you really, really hate stats or really really love working with patients?

Dotdash-you raise some incredibly valid and important questions that I, too, struggle with on a daily basis. Yes, it is very true that with my background and years working in pharmaceutical research I could work in a medical school and/or pharma (I presently work at FDA in new drug approvals and previously in Army research as well as pharma). Yet, the ability to directly diagnosis and treat patients, problem solve a person's disease or disorder excites me and has all along. Thanks for the post!

 

[QofQuimica]

Dotdash-you raise some incredibly valid and important questions that I, too, struggle with on a daily basis. Yes, it is very true that with my background and years working in pharmaceutical research I could work in a medical school and/or pharma (I presently work at FDA in new drug approvals and previously in Army research as well as pharma). Yet, the ability to directly diagnosis and treat patients, problem solve a person's disease or disorder excites me and has all along. Thanks for the post!

If you want to problem-solve, then stay in research. Take it from someone who has made the transition from PhD-to-MD: what I spend most of my day doing may be "problem-solving," but it ain't problem-solving people's diseases for the most part. It's problem-solving how to work around the issues with the health care system that prevent me from treating patients in any semblance of a rational way. Plus, a lot of people's diagnoses are already known when they're admitted to the hospital anyway.

That being said, I enjoy seeing patients, and I do think medicine can be a great career for the right people in the right niches. And sometimes you can even do something that actually does help someone. So if you're not going to listen to me when I tell you to stay in research, then you need to spend some time volunteering or shadowing in a clinic, hospital, nursing home, or other medical setting to get some clinical experience. What you've said so far is a completely unrealistic idea of what it's like to work as a physician seeing patients. Again, if you're coming into medicine to be like House, you're going to be sorely disappointed.

As for the MCAT, test anxiety can be a tough problem to overcome, but it's one that you need to overcome in order to ever be a licensed physician. How did you get through your quals? Because I don't know how it was at your grad school program, but my quals were way harder and more stressful than the MCAT was. If you can harness whatever psychological techniques you used to cope with your quals, maybe that will help in this case too.

Best of luck to you, and if you haven't already, check out the grad student/researcher-to-MD/DO link in the sticky at the top of this forum. Loads of good info there, some of which you might find of use.

 

[jissho]

How much studying do you do for the exam? Are your practice exam scores different from your actual score?

 

[JESSFALLING]

Hello all-

I am feeling a bit defeated and seeking some advice from fellow nontraditional SDNers.

I am 36 y.o. with a PhD in epidemiology (3.9 gpa), masters in math stats, and undergrad in math (cumulative gpa~ 3.6, science~3.5). My most recent MCAT (took it previously several years ago and scores was 24Q) was a 23R (vr 7, ps 8, ps 8) Ughhhh! I've worked in the science and research field for over 16 yrs but really want to go to medical school. I have a solid career background with several publications under my belt, clinic and basic research experience, and solid LORs. I just seem to freeze when taking the MCAT!

What to do? Any advice from other non-trad pre-meds?

thanks!

Please don't feel defeated! If you earned a PhD you can nail this exam!

Reading your post has made me wonder if you have completed all the standard prerequisites? If so, how long ago? Did you ace the material, or did you just get through the courses? A weakness in the course material may be your problem. Otherwise, you may need to focus on your verbal reasoning skills.

I always suggest the following coursework to anyone looking to go to med school. It (typically) fulfills their target schools' admissions requirements, and it greatly serves to prepare them for the MCAT and MS-year 1.

Required:
*General Biology I or II (Take whichever one has a "Cellular and Molecular Biology" Emphasis)
*General Biology II or III (Take whichever one has a "Physiology and Developmental Biology" Emphasis)
*General Chemistry I
*General Chemistry II
*Organic Chemistry I
*Organic Chemistry II
*General Physics I
*General Physics II

Optional (High-yield for MCAT) Courses ~ Choose 2-3:
*Biochemistry I (this is the most important "optional" classes, so don't skip it!)
*Vertebrate Physiology (Esp. important if not covered well in Gen. Bio.)
*Genetics (upper-division) (this is helpful if you have time to take it)

Optional (High-yield for Medical School Prep) Courses ~ Choose 2-3:
*Biochemistry I (this is the most important "optional" classes, so don't skip it!)
*Vertebrate Physiology
*Microbiology or Immunology or Hematology or Virology
*Neuroscience or Neurophysiology

As you can see...Biochemistry & Physiology help with both the MCAT and medical school. If you're short on time, I'd just take (or re-take or re-study) the requirements and take (or re-take or re-study) these two courses...And I'd also recommend reading a lot of challenging and diverse material (philosophy, psychology, economics, etc...) Also, pick up some study guides. Examkrackers and TPR are both pretty good.

Optional Courses & Activities to improve VR:
*Study Philosophy ("Bioethics" and/or "Philosophy of Mind" sound good!)
*Study Economics (Read the "Economist" and/or take a class on "Macroeconomic".)
*Work through Examkracker's "101" VR book.
*Practice, Practice, Practice!

Work through as many practice exams (all sections) as you can. Try to practice in a simulated "timed" setting. Then, really analyze the questions missed. Aim to figure out the 'why' behind the mistakes, so you can hopefully avoid the fallacy next time... Lastly, remember that most successful test-ees (pun not intended) spend a few months preparing for the "big" day.

Good luck!! You'll do great!

 

[hopefuldoc97239]

As for the MCAT, test anxiety can be a tough problem to overcome, but it's one that you need to overcome in order to ever be a licensed physician. How did you get through your quals? Because I don't know how it was at your grad school program, but my quals were way harder and more stressful than the MCAT was. If you can harness whatever psychological techniques you used to cope with your quals, maybe that will help in this case too.

As usual, Q has offered some solid advice. I don't know about your PhD program, but in mine our qualifying exams were 12 hours of hand-written questions, half of which were written specifically for each individual student. The MCAT is easier!

That being said, I wonder if you're too much of a math-head to do well on the MCAT without a serious adjustment of your thinking style. If you're overly mathematical in your approach, you could easily lose a LOT of point on the MCAT because you're not being smart about it. As someone once said, when it comes to the MCAT, all questions are verbal questions. Being great in physics/math won't do much good on the physical science section if you can't read between the lines to see what they're really asking. You can't always "solve" your way through the questions... sometimes you have to read your way through them.

Unfortunately, a PhD doesn't do much to help you get into med school if you don't have all the other ducks in a row. I've known a several PhD-level researchers who didn't get into low-tier MD schools and DO schools. I almost wonder if a low MCAT isn't more of a curse for someone with a PhD than someone without a PhD... having the PhD sets an expectation that you're great and can do anything. A low MCAT might sort of contradict the high first impression left by the PhD.

If you want to go to med school my advice is to take it slow. You'll only do yourself harm by rushing it. It it's been 3+ years since you took your pre-reqs, I suggest you start from scratch with all of them.

But you're going to have to do more than just re-learn the Pauli Exclusion Principle. Your verbal score was your lowest subscore on your last MCAT, which suggests that the other two subscores were also hurt by your reading comprehension. Hopefully you're a native English speaker, or at least fluent, because by nature it's an English test. Assuming your verbal fluency isn't an issue, you should really try taking some humanities/literature/philosophy classes to hone your qualitative skills. Don't just assume that because you're smart and have written peer-reviewed papers that you don't have to study for verbal... writing technical papers is very different from the kind of verbal questions you get on the MCAT!

Good luck!

 

[ChemMed]

OP Q has great advise and I would say that you should think carefully of this path before you walk it. I have just made the transition and already I am seeing the vast differences between the two fields. Patients are great to work with but not all the time, bureaucratic bull is always present in these setting but so is academic bull in the science arena plus bureaucratic bull to boot. The upside? I love what I did and I'll love what I will be doing. The down side, this is one **** of a road to take and the bumps and bruises ones sustains can be a bit much to the ego literally as well as figuratively. I have been more humbled by these processes (PhD and medicine and especially the transition) than any other experiences in my life, granted I am not a mother. If you have a good job that you think is alright that provides a decent retirement plan and security then think carefully before jumping on to this road. As for the MCAT I recommend taking a course, it helped me to boost my score.

 

[goldenstats]

Thank you all for the thoughtful and detailed responses. I do have a lot to consider and agree with many of the comments raised on this forum.

To address a few questions/comments:
-my PhD quals were three days long and were grueling but required a lot of problem solving and analyses, which is easier for me than the verbal-based MCAT
-I have a solid career in clinical R&D but seeking more challenge and I would enjoy patient-centered medicine
-I took my pre-reqs many, many moons ago!
-The suggested courses are helpful and biochem is one I plan to take
-I work with many physicians and many of them have noted that clinical medicine has multiple challenges including some that have been noted on this thread, including never ending paperwork, patients who do not listen or follow instructions, repetition in the practice, bureaucracy, etc.

Again, thank you to all for wise advice!