PhD to MD or PA?

[Wash]

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I am so glad to have found this forum. I am currently writing my dissertation to graduate this summer with a PhD in public health. I have clinical research experience and miss the patient interaction. I was recently accepted into a PA program to start in Jan 2010. However, I cannot decide if I want to go the PA route or the MD route. I am kinda older (39 in June), husband and 3 preteen kids. I plan to do patient care first and the some research and academia in the future.

I see lots of you here applying to MD school after PA due to hitting the 'glass ceiling'. The MD route, although satisfying is too long: 2 years postback (advisor says my Bio and Chem are too old + no good for MCATs), 4 years med school, 3 years residency = 9 years. Plus being away from my family and the debt is not too enticing.

With a PhD and PA-C, will I have better opportunities? Others have told me that doing PA now is backtracking. Should I go to PA school and then if I am dissatisfied go to MD school? I am afraid to give up my seat for next Jan and then not get into MD school.

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.

 

[QofQuimica]

I am so glad to have found this forum. I am currently writing my dissertation to graduate this summer with a PhD in public health. I have clinical research experience and miss the patient interaction. I was recently accepted into a PA program to start in Jan 2010. However, I cannot decide if I want to go the PA route or the MD route. I am kinda older (39 in June), husband and 3 preteen kids. I plan to do patient care first and the some research and academia in the future.

I see lots of you here applying to MD school after PA due to hitting the 'glass ceiling'. The MD route, although satisfying is too long: 2 years postback (advisor says my Bio and Chem are too old + no good for MCATs), 4 years med school, 3 years residency = 9 years. Plus being away from my family and the debt is not too enticing.

With a PhD and PA-C, will I have better opportunities? Others have told me that doing PA now is backtracking. Should I go to PA school and then if I am dissatisfied go to MD school? I am afraid to give up my seat for next Jan and then not get into MD school.

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Technically, getting *any* other degree after a PhD, even an MD, would be "backtracking". Your PhD will always be your highest-level degree, and getting another degree does not negate the fact that you have a PhD.

If I were in your shoes, I'd go to PA school for all the reasons you mentioned. But I'm not, and none of us can tell you what choice is right for you. I guess what I would ask you is if you think your career goals can be met with a PA degree (and from what you've said, it seems like maybe they could), then why would you want to spend your entire 40s taking on all that extra personal hardship and debt to get an MD? You have three kids who will possibly need your help paying for college during that interim, and I imagine you and your husband would like to retire comfortably some day. Going to med school at this point is going to make all of that much more difficult to do. Especially since you have a PA school acceptance in the bag already, it seems like the path of least resistance, *unless* you determine that a PA degree will not allow you to have the career you're wanting. In that case, I suggest PMing ShyRem for advice if she doesn't see this thread and respond on her own. Best of luck. 🙂

 

[nontrdgsbuiucmd]

When completing my post-bac work, I studied with a guy who kicked my butt in ochem -- like he was way out there for ability in the one subject that gave me some grief.

He told me why he was planning on going PA rather than MD, and what he said made a lot of sense regarding some reasons for going the former path. It clearly had nothing to do with academic weakness.

-he wanted a large amount of patient interaction, and
-desired less paperwork
-less administrative responsibility
-less oversight of others
-faster path into medicine
-lower probability of legal liability (as his work would be overseen by a physician)

Would be interested in others' thoughts as to if this persons thoughts are borne out in reality?

 

[njbmd]

I am starting to recommend the PA route to many nontraditional students for the following reasons:

• MD/DO is too much of a sacrifice on family for time and financial reasons with little promise on the other end.
• PA job satisfaction is the highest of any in the health care fields.
• Many nontraditional students face huge challenges because of previous poor coursework and PA programs(some programs) are a bit more forgiving.

The reasons that your friend list are generally true in terms of the scope of practice for a physician assistant. In short, it's a good time to be a mid-level practitioner in health care if you don't want to invest the time and money into becoming a physician.

Things that generally spur folks who are mid-levels into medicine would be more responsibility and increased scope of practice. If these are things that you totally care about then you won't be happy as a PA or NP. NPs generally have less options than PA because of tracking (family NP, psychiatric NP etc).

You have to investigate and decide what you want and how much you are willing to sacrifice. If you are the sole breadwinner for your family and you don't have another source of income, becoming a medical student is going to be a huge sacrifice for your family for a long period of time (minimally 7 years). Children need a stable home, food and attention, which can be pretty demanding for a medical student to provide without outside resources.

It's nice to have a dream but it isn't nice to put your family on food stamps and homeless for your dream.

 

[Akilah712]

Hi,

I am new around here. This is actually my first post. 🙂

My question is "why do you want to go back to school"?

I think it is great that you are finishing your PhD in Public Health. Most certainly there will be lots of opportunities that you could explore with your Doctoral degree - teaching etc.

I wouldn't rush to get back into school if I were you. I would definitely explore my options first.

Since you have a family maybe you could find something that allows you the flexibility or returning to school later on if you decided to do so.

 

[Cirrus83]

I strongly disagree on the claim that the MD is backtracking, because a combined MD and PhD are more valuable than a PhD alone and can open a lot of career doors. Much more so than having what may technically be the highest degree in a field. An MD plus PhD is a huge boost to career potential.

I mean if your PhD is in English or something then sure, the MD doesn't help you at all, but if you work in medical research with a PhD then you'd already know that much of the time MDs or MD-PhD's are given much higher positions than people with PhD's alone (I have an uncle who got so tired of seeing newly-hired MDs make more than higher ranking PhD's that he went back to med school ). And since the OP's PhD is in public health I think it would also provide a lot of synergy, since your average public health PhD won't actually get you very far unless you want to become a professor. If you want to head up any sort of public health agency you have almost no chance in hell with just a PhD, everyone is either an MD+MPH or MD+PhD. I've never seen a public health agency headed by anything other than an MD. Everyone from the Surgeon General on down to the heads of small city public health agencies has an MD along with their MPH or DPH.

Anyways, for the OP, if you're willing to deal with the physical/emotional/family strain of the MD, combining a PhD with an MD is significantly more useful than combining it with a PA degree. A PhD can even be helpful come residency application time, although this applies more to science research PhDs.

I guess the real answer depends on what you want to do. If you go the PA route I don't think you can really get all that much out of your PhD, whereas if you really want to work in Public Health, having both an MD and a PhD is going to be a big career booster.

If you just want to do clinical stuff, then there wouldn't be as much of a difference.

Just know in advance that it's a much tougher game as a non-trad. You have to be very disciplined and keep up all the time, and there might also be practical family life issues due to distance unless you get into a school nearby.

Anyways, best of luck.

 

[NonTradMed]

Given your circumstances and responsibilities, I'd recommend PA unless you feel you'd feel really constricted as one. Would you mind working under physician supervision?

The reason I say this is because you have a family already, and it looks like your stats are not up to snuf (yet) for med school. This means more years of prepping for med school. Residency is another hurdle that will be hard on your family.

If your goal is research and patient care, PA can do both! If you want the final say, and/or a wider scope of practice, an MD is better. But I think the cost for you will be much higher and you should carefully consider this before embarking on it.

Maybe you can shadown a few doctors and PAs to get a feel for what they do? I'm sorry I can't offer better advice.

 

[Hinglish]

. NPs generally have less options than PA because of tracking (family NP, psychiatric NP etc).

I have often found myself struggling with the same decision. What do you mean by "tracking?"